Too much "busy work"?

[sinadoom]

As a big fan of racing games, I really liked Horizon 2, but started to get bored after about 20 championships. Now with Horizon 3, there’s something about it that makes it feel like a chore to play. Maybe it’s the constant “Hey [insert name here]” or ANNA or the enormous number of collectibles, barn finds, skills, designs, auction house being very slow and basic compared to Motorsport 2 even, the endless stream of events, challenges, “would you like to send this to your friends?”, fans, expanding festival, barn finds, cruises, Horizon promo, bucket lists, championships, skill songs, recruiting drivers to line-up etc. - it’s all just too much “clutter”, if you know what I mean. In Motorsport, you can just focus on what matters - racing and time trials, without having to travel everywhere. You feel like you’re making progress and you can just hop on for a race or two on tracks you know and love, or even just go hotlapping.

I should mention I’m a big fan of Test Drive Unlimited 2 which doesn’t get anywhere near the credit it deserves but even with the emphasis on character customisation and pseudo-RPG mechanics, it somehow felt more… pure and free.

Of course this is my opinion, I just felt compelled to leave feedback here and see what others think. Now I’m not saying I don’t care for the open-world, and I appreciate the differences between Horzion and Motorsport, but somehow I feel that Horzion 3 is lacking in refinement. In my view, a simpler game with fewer elements would make for a better experience. If anyone’s played Far Cry 4 and actually tried to make a dent in the side-quests and collectibles, you may appreciate where I’m coming from.

I know Horzion 3 promotes that “it’s YOUR Horizon”, but I can’t turn off all the annoying commentary, cheesey tutorials/introductions, ANNA, all the festival nonsense etc. I just wish instead of trying to cram in all these different features, game designers would instead focus on refinement.

TL;DR: Less content can make for a more enjoyable experience by focusing on what matters; more content can dilute the experience with unnecessary “ceremony”.

What do you guys/gals think?

[solarriors]

I think we should merge topic, and rename them to hint at the “enjoyability issues”, it’s getting too widespread too (just like the game :-p)
And why those Too Long, Didn’t Read? I’m sure people committed to improve the game are reading it in entirety. (As far as I’m involved, I do so)

[PJTierney]

In the early stages of Forza Horizon 3 I quite enjoyed having a map full of icons, as it meant there was always something to do. Once you get past a certain point however it runs into the same problem that befalls every other open-world game: it becomes an elaborate checklist. If you choose to go for 100% completion you can expect a lot of repetition, Fast-Travelling and many hours in front of your map.

@solarriors

And why those Too Long, Didn’t Read? I’m sure people committed to improve the game are reading it in entirety.

You’re assuming that Turn 10 / Playground Games read every thread on this forum to begin with.

[solarriors]

@PJTierney

@solarriors

And why those Too Long, Didn’t Read? I’m sure people committed to improve the game are reading it in entirety.

You’re assuming that Turn 10 / Playground Games read every thread on this forum to begin with.

Well, it seems it’s all about making a game for money, and not making a game for the sake of the art and then have some money to make another game. The next game is just there so they make more money. It’s all about how to earn theses days, but that’s a general behaviour that’s outside game’s thread

[SatNiteEduardo]

I would not want the game watered down in any way.

That is not this games problem in my opinion.

This games problem in my opinion is some aspects of the game either defy logic or are based on one sided logic.

I believe the biggest problem is the PI system. This topic has been done to death in other threads. I believe this is a big part of what people call the drivatar issue. They need a more balanced PI system. Yes it was too grip heavy before but now it is way too power heavy. Somewhere in between would work.

I would not want less to do in the game. But I would like what is there to work better. In most cases I personally would like it all to be more challenging. I know others want it less challenging, in some cases because they view the challenge to be random eg traffic or unadjustable because the difficulty settings make little difference.

In my opinion we can all be kept happy in a difficulty sense if they give us difficulty settings, aggressiveness settings and maybe even traffic settings…all that actually make a difference.

Make that work and the main chore in the game goes away…in my opinion.

Oh and make the xp / cr earnt from different activities more balanced especially rivals.

[WritesCode4Food]

@SatNiteEduardo

I would not want the game watered down in any way.

That is not this games problem in my opinion.

This games problem in my opinion is some aspects of the game either defy logic or are based on one sided logic.

I believe the biggest problem is the PI system. This topic has been done to death in other threads. I believe this is a big part of what people call the drivatar issue. They need a more balanced PI system. Yes it was too grip heavy before but now it is way too power heavy. Somewhere in between would work.

I would not want less to do in the game. But I would like what is there to work better. In most cases I personally would like it all to be more challenging. I know others want it less challenging, in some cases because they view the challenge to be random eg traffic or unadjustable because the difficulty settings make little difference.

In my opinion we can all be kept happy in a difficulty sense if they give us difficulty settings, aggressiveness settings and maybe even traffic settings…all that actually make a difference.

Make that work and the main chore in the game goes away…in my opinion.

Oh and make the xp / cr earnt from different activities more balanced especially rivals.

I think you are on the right track here. I actually have worked in the game industry. People need to accomplish things to stay engaged, however, they often think they need to make the achievements harder to satisfy the die hard players of the game. I think that’s incorrect in this game.

Personally I think an average player should be able to get all the achievements. It shouldn’t be 1% of the players. I don’t compare myself to other players based on ‘Achievements’. I want to compare myself based on how well we do on the achievements or races then reward based on the scale of exceeding the achievements. So I agree higher payouts for XP/Credits for moving into the top percentages especially if you can eliminate glitches or cheats.

So imagine that an average player could easily get all the achievements and ‘finish’ the game without a massive amount of credits and/or XP. Then players like my sons would keep playing, however, with the now expensive cars like the Shelby Daytona (my favourite) I’d have to earn credits by doing more than 3 stars in a Speed/Drift/Danger challenge, I’d have to get higher in the leaderboard. Make the stunt points matter as XP/Credit.

The other thing I’d like to see is better online matchmaking based on ability and temperament as well as penalize aggressive players in clean events. The most fun I’ve ever had in Forza was Forza 6 when I fell into a group that was all about clean racing and we were similar skill levels. One comment from another driver stood out. I was racing for 2nd place late in a race. It was on Monza in R cars. I was on the inside line with my left front fender just off the right rear of the guy in 2nd place. I didn’t touch him and eventually passed him. Then the roles were reversed on a later turn. He dived bombed inside but didn’t hit me and could have. We did this a few times and the other driver eventually did get 2nd.

The guy that was in 4th commented after the race that it was very exciting racing to watch. He couldn’t catch us but loved seeing both of us passing back and forth without touching the other car. I want to do more of that type of racing!

[vValo66]

@PJTierney

In the early stages of Forza Horizon 3 I quite enjoyed having a map full of icons, as it meant there was always something to do. Once you get past a certain point however it runs into the same problem that befalls every other open-world game: it becomes an elaborate checklist. If you choose to go for 100% completion you can expect a lot of repetition, Fast-Travelling and many hours in front of your map.

Yeah, this was the fate that befell me as well. As a newcomer to Forza, I was beyond stoked at all the activities and such. Plus, the online features were pretty cool.

It didn’t take me long after finishing the main campaign before the “repetition syndrome” kicked in and the check listing started.

Racing online was fun in the beginning but all the “ping pong” drivers and people who confuse asphalt racing with demolition derby regularly burnt out the adventure part for me. The free roam area is still a cool place to chill with friends or to go watch drags and drifters.

Then along came Blizzard Mountain. Again, I was super stoked with the map and activities. Then it all happened again. After the first week or so, I quit going to BM altogether unless friends wanted to go there (which is rare).

I never completed BM and have no intention to. I got about 110 stars and I don’t plan to go any further unless someone wanted to co-op or something. I have finished all the exhibitions in the main map but have no intention of completing the championships because I have lost all enjoyment of racing thanks to broken AI and repetitiveness.

In short, designing cars is cool, hanging with friends online is cool, traversing the terrain solo is sometimes cool, and testing out various vehicles/tunes are cool. I only bother with Forzathons that have prize vehicles even if that means having to temporarily deal with the online insanity.

That’s really about it. Everything else has either lost its luster or makes my brain numb to deal with.

But…

Even through all this, I think Horizon 3 is one of the best racing games I’ve ever played. I just feel like it’s unfinished…like they powered through awesome ideas in the starting development phase then lost their own steam along the way causing the game to feel broken, full of glitches, and not as enjoyable as the original concept could’ve been.

[Cerrax]

You know there’s a filter on the map, right? Just turn off the icons of things you don’t want to do.

When I want to race, I turn off all the map icons except the courses. If I’m in a championship, I only turn on the Championship icons. When I feel like trying to break some records in PR Stunts, I turn those on. The tool is there to make the game as “open” or as “cluttered” as you want.

Are you seriously complaining that there’s too much to do? How is that a bad thing at all? I don’t think any quality has been sacrificed to add all of these features, and no one is forcing you to use 100% of the content that is available.

Horizon 3 is especially aimed at being as free and open as possible. You do whatever you want.

[TransAmConnor]

@Cerrax

You know there’s a filter on the map, right? Just turn off the icons of things you don’t want to do.

When I want to race, I turn off all the map icons except the courses. If I’m in a championship, I only turn on the Championship icons. When I feel like trying to break some records in PR Stunts, I turn those on. The tool is there to make the game as “open” or as “cluttered” as you want.

Are you seriously complaining that there’s too much to do? How is that a bad thing at all? I don’t think any quality has been sacrificed to add all of these features, and no one is forcing you to use 100% of the content that is available.

Horizon 3 is especially aimed at being as free and open as possible. You do whatever you want.

My problem is that there’s so much to do, and not enough in the way of progression/motivation to actually do it.

[solarriors]

@Cerrax

You know there’s a filter on the map, right? Just turn off the icons of things you don’t want to do.

When I want to race, I turn off all the map icons except the courses. If I’m in a championship, I only turn on the Championship icons. When I feel like trying to break some records in PR Stunts, I turn those on. The tool is there to make the game as “open” or as “cluttered” as you want.

Are you seriously complaining that there’s too much to do? How is that a bad thing at all? I don’t think any quality has been sacrificed to add all of these features, and no one is forcing you to use 100% of the content that is available.

Horizon 3 is especially aimed at being as free and open as possible. You do whatever you want.

It’s no about having too much to do. And those stunts, I mean it’s just a ramp or some flags around a street…
it was more toward it being purposeless, and no feeling to belong to something greater and be actually part of a festival

[vValo66]

I agree with SatNite, Zeppelin, and Connor here.

All the points about racing vs PI is quite unbalanced. Alot of the time, it makes racing more about luck and less about skill.

I have no previous comparison for this in Forza specifically so I can’t which I think is best but H2 is on sale in the Store so I may pick it up in hopes it will help my opinion of the games be a little more rounded instead of based on one game.

The amount of activities isn’t my issue. The more, the merrier. It’s just that they should have used all these extraneous activities in the campaign instead of what feels like empty filler. Especially considering the ratio of in campaign races to after is way off kilter. Short campaign, tons left to do. Makes the remainder for me hard to stay motivated to complete.

The online in this game borders cancerous to me, sadly. With the exception of free roam (which I still think is awesome), bumper Mario Kart is tiring and annoying for little reward. The payouts are terrible and XP is always won by the last place drifter instead of actual speed, placement, and cleanliness.

[Oldsmagnet]

I think I’d be fine with all the extra “fluff” in there, if ANNA would just shut up about it — never fails, just get “into” some kind of event, trying to make a clean speed-trap run or something, and she pops on with “hey boss, I found some boring crap on the other side of the continent for you to do, should I set a route for you?” – And by the time you get “no” hit, you’ve crashed into something… (Or even better… “I’ve set a route for you to…” (after she just finished bragging up the part about “it’s all about what ~you~ want to do…”) I think currently my biggest gripe about ANNA now though, is the new drivatar challenges – send me halfway across the country (which is like 12 miles LOL) to race somebody who’s apparently been all the rage lately – get done, and find out this one has like 10K fans when all mine already have millions… What’s the point of that? (Or am I missing some other subtlety there?)