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Rank: S-Class Racing License
#101 Posted : Monday, July 24, 2017 8:15:47 AM(UTC)
Isn't this what the penalty system they are putting in supposed to do? If crashers and griefers do things repeatedly it will accrue on their accounts and they will see real penalties and race losses for it.

-k
Rank: On the Podium
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#102 Posted : Monday, July 24, 2017 9:11:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kdogg788 Go to Quoted Post
Isn't this what the penalty system they are putting in supposed to do? If crashers and griefers do things repeatedly it will accrue on their accounts and they will see real penalties and race losses for it.

-k


From the interviews I have read it appears the focus is only on corner-cutting and only in high level Leagues and Forza RC events.

Based on that it doesn't do anything regarding crashes and also won't be put in place in the general Hoppers, where it is needed the most.

If I am wrong I'll will happily eat (metaphorical) humble pie but from what I know of the game so far the Public Multiplayer experience will have the same problems it has had for the past decade. Sadly I don't think "the type of player who wants to have a clean race without getting into eSports" is a big enough demographic for Turn 10 to put a major focus on anymore.

Edited by user Monday, July 24, 2017 9:15:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: .

Rank: Driver's Permit
#103 Posted : Monday, July 24, 2017 9:55:04 AM(UTC)
Having real time judgments can be difficult. The Forza Championships have shown that it takes a while even with the top racers. I was proposing that the racers rating be done all on the back end with a quick analysis of crashes and off track. Those that can't control their cars who initiate the crash event, not the ones bumped by others into the cars ahead of you because you got hit, with a high impact vector and and consistently go off track without any impact would have their league rating adjusted down and if they did not improve they would be adjusted into a lower league. This would require no changes to the engine of the game and all its physics calculations or trying to force in some code that would slow down the game, but would be added to the server side just like the current driver rating gets you moved into a higher league as you get better. This type of change could be added even after the release of FM7 or even added to FM6 and would probably go into the same system that rates players now. So as you work your way into high ranked leagues, the racing is defined to be cleaner because of the ranking system.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#104 Posted : Friday, August 18, 2017 10:02:13 AM(UTC)
First off, I don’t know if FM6 has this or not, but they should have a separate section for games like the Horizon Infected, King, and Capture the Flag. I know some people like this, so let them have it.

For the rest, there should be a pre-qualifying race whenever you enter Multi-Player Mode; with the option to use your last qualifying race if you wish to skip the qualifying (if the game crashes or your happy with your qualifying race from the other day). The qualifying track should be a design that prevents corner cutting; something like Bernese Alps where the entire track has guard rails.

Your Qualifying Time would be used to place you in races with similar players. As you get better, you will advance to more experienced players. If you do poorly, those times could be used to adjust your current qualifying record forcing you to either re-qualify, or be lowered to races with less experienced players.

This won’t eliminate wreckers, but since wreckers would never be able to qualify high enough, they won’t be in races with the real die-hards. Yes, maybe some of the beginners will be bopped around by wreckers, but as they too get better, the wreckers will be left behind.

Over time, the wreckers will get bored of bashing little kids around the track. (Remember: The wrecker’s goal is to ruin your race; what fun is it to ruin the race of someone who can’t navigate the track anyway.)

Well, that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong…
Sometimes I wrestle with my demons... sometimes, we just snuggle.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#105 Posted : Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:48:52 AM(UTC)
A good way to "get rid of'' rammers is a point system.

1 "point" for every ram (if they could calculate impact) if not than for every contact.

Every clean race will lose a point. (just because everyone makes a mistake every now and than) And if racers wanna better there lives.

Lets say that 0-10 point will make you a racer.
10-25 still no danger zone.
25-50 Rammer
50+ needs 2 clean races for losing a point.



Xbox live Id: Bosmanovic
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#106 Posted : Tuesday, September 5, 2017 6:17:25 AM(UTC)
It would be nice if they did something about quitters as well. That's one of the main things why I don't like multiplayer for public games. If someone's first lap doesn't go well they quit. It's become too much of a results based system where if someone thinks they can't take first place they will quit instead of racing through and I don't know, maybe learning the track or driving better by practicing.

-k
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#107 Posted : Tuesday, September 5, 2017 9:17:31 PM(UTC)
But is there no simulation Damage in public hoppers ? I have not played 5-6 that's why i`m asking. Because damage on would fix this sort of behavior, or intentional ramming, sure he can do it once in a game but after he`ll be stuck at 20km/h.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#108 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:27:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Slimssss Go to Quoted Post
But is there no simulation Damage in public hoppers ? I have not played 5-6 that's why i`m asking. Because damage on would fix this sort of behavior, or intentional ramming, sure he can do it once in a game but after he`ll be stuck at 20km/h.


What about the guy he takes out? Then they're stuck at 20 km/h too.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#109 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:52:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Slimssss Go to Quoted Post
But is there no simulation Damage in public hoppers ? I have not played 5-6 that's why i`m asking. Because damage on would fix this sort of behavior, or intentional ramming, sure he can do it once in a game but after he`ll be stuck at 20km/h.


No there is no sim damage in the hoppers. However there is damage in the top 3 leagues. Damage has done very little to stop crashing, intentional or not.
Rank: On the Podium
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#110 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:54:01 AM(UTC)
Some things I have noticed while playing F1 2017's Public Multiplayer (their Hopper system):

  • Races are 5 laps long, taking about 8-10 minutes instead of Forza's 5-6. This lets people have prolonged battles with others, allows the field to spread out and gives those who start at the back (or fall behind after the start) some time to catch up.
  • About half of the races feature a 1 lap Qualifying session. This puts the faster people at the front and gives them time to "break free" from the more aggressive players who tend to be slower.
  • Warnings and time penalties are given out for corner-cutting in both Qualifying and races.
  • A light amount of mechanical damage is applied; enough to let people get away with minor bumps but bigger collisions can cause handling issues. Severe contacts with walls causes cars to retire as they lose a wheel.
  • Drivers are ghosted very quickly if they spin.
  • Drivers are ghosted if they pause the game (AI driver takes control) or drive the wrong way.
  • Drivers appear to be ghosted if they go a lap down; I haven't come across a single "Forza style" griefer who waits for the leaders to come round and take them out.
  • Player count is lower; I see between 6 and 15 players in each race.
  • Extra XP is awarded for clean laps, penalty-free races, finishing in the top half of the field etc.
  • There is a visible "vote to kick" system but it's not used by enough players to be worthwhile.


There are still people who crash or struggle with these cars, which is understandable as every race is on the same pace level as an X-Class race would be in Forza. That being said the races I have had over the past few weeks have largely been very clean, with a lot of good battles going on. There are races that are "ruined" in the opening lap too but they're in the minority compared to what I see in Forza.

Just some food for thought.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#111 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 3:12:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kdogg788 Go to Quoted Post
It would be nice if they did something about quitters as well. That's one of the main things why I don't like multiplayer for public games. If someone's first lap doesn't go well they quit. It's become too much of a results based system where if someone thinks they can't take first place they will quit instead of racing through and I don't know, maybe learning the track or driving better by practicing.

-k
I am sure it would be very difficult if not impossible to differentiate between someone who quits as opposed to someone who gets disconnected, which happens all too frequently.

I think that Turn 10 did a good job of adjusting the scoring to account for those that quit.

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#112 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 5:56:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Slimssss Go to Quoted Post
But is there no simulation Damage in public hoppers ? I have not played 5-6 that's why i`m asking. Because damage on would fix this sort of behavior, or intentional ramming, sure he can do it once in a game but after he`ll be stuck at 20km/h.


The top level leagues had damage on when they were still alive. Trust me when I say it doesn't fix anything.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#113 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 8:50:39 AM(UTC)
Seeing this guys on ytube being rammed like mad in every match, simply kills the multiplayer experience. Hope at least i can go 1v1 with friend in some sort of private lobby. Imagine how it will be now when so many new trolls will join from the PC community.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#114 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 10:28:40 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: luckeydoug1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kdogg788 Go to Quoted Post
It would be nice if they did something about quitters as well. That's one of the main things why I don't like multiplayer for public games. If someone's first lap doesn't go well they quit. It's become too much of a results based system where if someone thinks they can't take first place they will quit instead of racing through and I don't know, maybe learning the track or driving better by practicing.

-k
I am sure it would be very difficult if not impossible to differentiate between someone who quits as opposed to someone who gets disconnected, which happens all too frequently.

I think that Turn 10 did a good job of adjusting the scoring to account for those that quit.


Kdogg I understand what you mean. I also enjoy the COD games and it upsets me when we start with say 6 players per team. A team starts loosing or someone has a bad start and they back out and halfway through the match its 3 against 6 and obviously the 3 team is destroyed even worse than with 6 players.

I do have to side with Luckeydoug here though. If you don't have disconnects be thankful as many of us do and it would not be fair to assess any form of penalty for being disconnected. I think if you want to quit do so at the end of a race not the middle of one and hopefully most players do this. A disconnect you have no choice of when or why so there should not be any penalty for this.

What is possible would be if you start with 12 players and 3 back out it still pays a 12 player field of credits all to the remaining 9 players still in. Perhaps freeze their lap at the distance they were around that lap of the race when they backed out and put a ghosted car of them showing their final location before they quit or were disconnected. That way the players still playing get all the credits they deserve. 7th out of 12 should pay more and be considered a better finish than a 7th of 7 and if 5 people quit or get disconnected it's a 7th of 7.

Usually the people who quit are in the back having a bad race so very seldom does them quitting help someone gain a spot unless they also are having a bad race. With a disconnect it is many more times likely to gain a position from a disconect ( any players left not the disconected player ) as they may have been doing very well and had no intention of quitting say 2nd. Everybody but the leader would then gain a spot once they passed that location on the lap they left. Still something to race for that way.

Just an idea and probably not a very good one but still an idea.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 6, 2017 10:32:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#115 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 1:35:39 PM(UTC)
Turn10, like most software developers refuse to admit that the ONLY proper policing\penalty system needs real human beings to monitor and adjudicate. No software in the world can take the place of a human being, whether those are designated Turn10 employees or a team of volunteers blessed with admin privileges.

In a way I can understand them not wanting to utilize real people to Admin the hoppers - that in itself can be an expensive and complicated system prone to abuse and misinterpretation of the rules and power trips - but it is in fact the ONLY way any public serve can be policed.

The lazy and easier way is to "let software handle it". The path of least resistance.is the path most game developers choose.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#116 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 3:41:03 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HellsGrimReaper Go to Quoted Post
I agree time penalties will make minimum impact on the ones that just want to wreck. It won't make much difference on the track cutters either cause they cut to win. They don't care about time. It wouldn't stop the first turn wreck but one idea would be to make everyone not on the lead lap ghosted so guys can't wait to wreck people. Any improvements would be better the wild west as someone put it that we have now.


You are the smartest person ever. This would be so terrific. How funny would that be the first time some ******* gets in the game and tries to wait and crash into the leaders... they just passed through his/her ghost. I would pay a million dollars (or at least in-game credits) to see that losers face when they realize they have to go find some other puppy to kick.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#117 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 4:01:30 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CanineWord97990 Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps for those who just crash and cause chaos then leave, maybe having a penalty system that becomes a block for entering certain lobbies(i.e. any lobby that isn't game modes like tag, etc.) if the person hasn't served their penalty, like a 5 second penalty accumulated by a crasher becomes a 5 minute block from going into racing lobbies again but still lets them play game modes that do involve a certain amount of crashing. Additionally, there could be a message that gives them the idea that crashing during racing is not acceptable but there are lobbies and game modes that do have crashing in them, thereby pointing them to the tag, king ,etc. game modes.


Wow this is a really good suggestion. The suggested system not only alleviates some of the problem of those idiots, but gives them an opportunity to go do whatever it is they want to do somewhere else. They are unlikely to ever change their perspective, but maybe it will get them to go, "I'm sick of waiting around to cause trouble I'll go do something else with my time". Kind of like the reason I don't race online, because I'm sick of wasting my time and end up going to do something else. Pretty sad that I've been pushed out of online racing like a lot of you. If it wasn't for the group of friends I have, I would basically only do the campaign.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#118 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 4:23:12 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XxHighWayStarXx Go to Quoted Post
The only flaw I can see with the suggestion of casual hoppers so griefers and crashers can all play together, is that griefers and crashers DON'T want to play with the like minded.
They get their kicks disrupting and antagonizing the serious racers. A hopper full of smashers & crashers would offer no thrill to them because smashing & crashing would be the norm, offering them all no proper "race" to sabotage.
No, their preferred hunting ground is the serious racing hoppers.


And that's exactly why it would work. If they got stuck in a group of Their Own Idiotic Kind, after a race or two they would realize they were not having any fun and go play some other game. This would protect all of us. Sure T10 is smart enough to realize that that would probably mean a loss of sales of the next generation of the game. That being said they are trying to get more serious with the game especially now that they're entering the PC market.

In PC Sim racing there are penalties systems that work very well. It's been mentioned before, and I will second, the system that iRacing has. Not only can you not race online with the higher-end cars initially until you upgrade your license very slowly from class to class. But you're given a safety rating that also affects that ability of what you can drive in the online races. I expect any loss from the few griefers that are intentionally buying the game only to crash into people would be vastly overcome by the welcome of new clean drivers that are looking for a great experience. Especially that huge group of PC Sim drivers that might start using Forza. I can assure you the people that I know that PC Sim race only, will never touch Forza until it has a very good online rating system. Otherwise they will not consider it a simulator and just a game.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#119 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 4:53:10 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: R34Rush Go to Quoted Post
More lobby moderators and people who can review replays and ban the wreckers.


This made me laugh. They're not going to spend any money on moderators and people that review footage. This game is Just far too large and they're far too many griefers. They would have to hire the entire population of a small country to review all the footage being reported for crashing.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#120 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 4:55:25 PM(UTC)
Bring back Custom public lobbies. Problem easily solved. Can try penalties and all that but CPL's is the only real solution. One day Turn 10 will understand this hopefully. Instead they keep wasting resources on the whack a mole bans that don't solve anything at all.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 6, 2017 5:14:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#121 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 5:07:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Some things I have noticed while playing F1 2017's Public Multiplayer (their Hopper system):

  • Races are 5 laps long, taking about 8-10 minutes instead of Forza's 5-6. This lets people have prolonged battles with others, allows the field to spread out and gives those who start at the back (or fall behind after the start) some time to catch up.
  • About half of the races feature a 1 lap Qualifying session. This puts the faster people at the front and gives them time to "break free" from the more aggressive players who tend to be slower.
  • Warnings and time penalties are given out for corner-cutting in both Qualifying and races.
  • A light amount of mechanical damage is applied; enough to let people get away with minor bumps but bigger collisions can cause handling issues. Severe contacts with walls causes cars to retire as they lose a wheel.
  • Drivers are ghosted very quickly if they spin.
  • Drivers are ghosted if they pause the game (AI driver takes control) or drive the wrong way.
  • Drivers appear to be ghosted if they go a lap down; I haven't come across a single "Forza style" griefer who waits for the leaders to come round and take them out.
  • Player count is lower; I see between 6 and 15 players in each race.
  • Extra XP is awarded for clean laps, penalty-free races, finishing in the top half of the field etc.
  • There is a visible "vote to kick" system but it's not used by enough players to be worthwhile.



Look at all these amazing ideas. If we could just have even a couple of these it would make our game so much better. And they were done by a company with ia significantly tinier budget than Turn 10. It really is sad that they leave this basically unchanged version after version of this game. Adding tiny, what they call, improvements, that really haven't helped. The only time I race online is when I Can't Get Enough friends together to race. So two or three of us will go into a public lobby. After one or two races we go back to a private race. Even though it's not as challenging, at least we can actually enjoy a lap without being pushed into the tirewalls.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#122 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 5:12:54 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Slimssss Go to Quoted Post
Imagine how it will be now when so many new trolls will join from the PC community.


This is an incorrect statement. PC Gamers typically spend over $1,000 easily on their machine, and tend to be more serious about their gaming. Also in the driving or Sim Department PC gamers are exceedingly of higher caliber than what we get in the random console market. And in the console market you could have some kid that's gotten bored playing Grand Theft Auto all day and goes ahead and buys the discounted version of Forza just to run around and hit people. You won't see that nearly as often in the PC people nearly as much. I can assure you of this; I race extensively on both console and PC.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#123 Posted : Wednesday, September 6, 2017 6:09:49 PM(UTC)
Cat & Mouse and Car Soccer from past Forza titles are MUCH more fun IMO than Infected or King. It's wishful thinking at this point that they will be in FM7, it will probably just be the same tag modes.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 6, 2017 6:10:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Forza Faithful since FM4.
Rank: On the Podium
 1 user liked this post.
#124 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 3:40:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GURK3NS3PP Go to Quoted Post
Dont know if someone postet this already: https://ar12gaming.com/a...les/forza-7-adjudication

When asked about how Turn 10 plans to tackle the issues that plague online play in Forza Motorsport 6, Giese said the new Adjudication System in Forza Motorsport 7 will penalize players who cut corners, crash out other players, or do something else that could potentially give you an advantage or wouldn’t be considered sportsmanship. These penalties will see the game “take you down,” Giese said, revealing that players who cheat or race unclean could face added time on to their final lap and race total, or have their result marked as ‘dirty’ in Rivals.

Okay, that's a little reassuring.

Need to see it in action or learn more about how it works before passing judgement however.


Still no update on this from the previews I've read, or anything else regarding how Multiplayer functions (outside of Homologation and Friction Assist) for that matter.

Clean lobbies can do wonders for a game's long-term enjoyment but I have a feeling things are going to be the same as always, and Forza's not going to shake off its reputation as an unwelcome place to race online.
Rank: On the Podium
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#125 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:51:41 AM(UTC)
The game is starting to roll out worldwide, with New Zealand and Australian copies unlocking soon.

If anyone comes across any new options or features in Multiplayer Hoppers feel free to post here.


One thing I noticed from last night's official livestream is that a tyre barrier has been placed at the apex of Sebring's Turn 16. That was a popular corner-cutting spot so I'm glad that's been dealt with for now.
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