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Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#76 Posted : Sunday, July 9, 2017 9:00:43 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XxHighWayStarXx Go to Quoted Post
The only flaw I can see with the suggestion of casual hoppers so griefers and crashers can all play together, is that griefers and crashers DON'T want to play with the like minded.
They get their kicks disrupting and antagonizing the serious racers. A hopper full of smashers & crashers would offer no thrill to them because smashing & crashing would be the norm, offering them all no proper "race" to sabotage.
No, their preferred hunting ground is the serious racing hoppers.


This is why the new time penalties will be awful. These people don't care at all about lap times and will just use the penalties against people that do.

T10 can't work magic and make these people stop ruining races. But why can't an obvious back marker be ghosted when the field comes back around to him. They either suck or are a rammer if it's not a multi class race.

Rank: Driver's Permit
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#77 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 2:36:07 AM(UTC)
i got a idea.....a 24/7 first corner ghost !

The first one or two corners ghost wil be active so the good players can get away from the noobs and then all goes to normal so in the 3rd corner you need to watch out again.

( this must be an on/off turn option or els people who like reality wont be happy )


AND

if your 1 lap behind the others you wil be a ghost till you catch up with the rest....
( this stops trols and people who want to payback ram )

Edited by user Monday, July 10, 2017 4:22:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#78 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 4:28:51 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Fantasma 115 Go to Quoted Post
What about when a player earns that said "dirty" title, they can only join lobbies with others' with the same title. Clean player lobbies, and moron lobbies.


hahaah like GTA
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#79 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 4:49:54 AM(UTC)
I like both ideas. The first avoids the rear wreckers who use you as brake in the first few corners. The second makes a lot of sense. It is common etiquette to allow lead lap cars to pass if they catch up to you in long races.

-k
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#80 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 9:41:51 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kdogg788 Go to Quoted Post
I like both ideas. The first avoids the rear wreckers who use you as brake in the first few corners. The second makes a lot of sense. It is common etiquette to allow lead lap cars to pass if they catch up to you in long races.

-k
While I do very little online racing, (I just don't need any more stress in my life thank you) I agree that these two ideas would help tremendously.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#81 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 9:46:57 AM(UTC)
Man I play vary little online racing, and the fact this thread keeps coming up to the top of the boards shows me EXACTLY why that's the case.

It's also an indication of how slow things are 'round here these days news-wise, but what you gonna do?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#82 Posted : Monday, July 10, 2017 11:58:35 AM(UTC)
Remember how in Forza 6 and Horizon 3 you have lobbies/Custom Online Adventures where you can race without collisions?

What if Forza Motorsport 7 has a similar, no-contact option?

Edited by user Tuesday, July 11, 2017 10:16:00 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#83 Posted : Tuesday, July 11, 2017 5:02:17 AM(UTC)
No contact? Would be boring and there are already Lobbys without contact in fm6.

It should be possible to flag someone who is crashing all the time. And when more people tag this guy he will become ghost in the next race.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#84 Posted : Tuesday, July 11, 2017 5:59:23 AM(UTC)
It's all about match making and the lack of it. The Free for all that is the current hopper system is BROKEN and breeds a mentality of deperation within its player base.

GTA got it bang on seperating the dirty players and it works because as it's already been pointed out these ppl don't want to play with like minded idiots they want to ruin the fun of others for there own pleasure and thats not much fun when everyone is doing the same thing. I welcome the time penalties but let's face it so long as they can still join a lobby they will contiune being idiots and ruining it for the rest of us.

The question everyone shud really be asking is why are t10 so reluctant to deal with this issue head on. Ppl say it's been like this since the conception of online racing. So why are other titles getting this aspect right and t10 cant even fix a blatant cut on monza. I belive it's fear, the fear of loosing or alienating a group of players that t10 deem to be there bread and butter in sales.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#85 Posted : Tuesday, July 11, 2017 9:21:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
It's all about match making and the lack of it. The Free for all that is the current hopper system is BROKEN and breeds a mentality of deperation within its player base.

GTA got it bang on seperating the dirty players and it works because as it's already been pointed out these ppl don't want to play with like minded idiots they want to ruin the fun of others for there own pleasure and thats not much fun when everyone is doing the same thing. I welcome the time penalties but let's face it so long as they can still join a lobby they will contiune being idiots and ruining it for the rest of us.

The question everyone shud really be asking is why are t10 so reluctant to deal with this issue head on. Ppl say it's been like this since the conception of online racing. So why are other titles getting this aspect right and t10 cant even fix a blatant cut on monza. I belive it's fear, the fear of loosing or alienating a group of players that t10 deem to be there bread and butter in sales.


GTA didn't really do it too well considering the entirety of that playerbase is toxic and would fall under the "dirty players" label. Last I played it, the only way you'd be dumped into the bad sport lobby was by continuously destroying other players insured cars.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#86 Posted : Tuesday, July 11, 2017 10:08:13 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
Remember how in Forza 6 and Horizon 3 you have Custom lobbies/Online Adventure where you can race without collisions?

What if Forza Motorsport 7 has a similar, no-contact option?


They probably will but no contact is not the same kind of racing with contact. You never need to adjust your line to avoid others. After a while racing no contact you tend to lose passing and avoidance abilities. While it's nice not to be hit it would be better to have full contact races where there consequences for cutting, corner bombing and wrecking.
Rank: On the Podium
#87 Posted : Tuesday, July 11, 2017 1:40:06 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Endurance 1986 Go to Quoted Post
i got a idea.....a 24/7 first corner ghost !

The first one or two corners ghost wil be active so the good players can get away from the noobs and then all goes to normal so in the 3rd corner you need to watch out again.

( this must be an on/off turn option or els people who like reality wont be happy )


AND

if your 1 lap behind the others you wil be a ghost till you catch up with the rest....
( this stops trols and people who want to payback ram )


The on/off would have to be mandatory. One of the pillars of FM7 seems to be esport. As such, any 1st turn ghost mechanism would have to be a lobby option.

As much as I know many people want this, I usually don't have much issues with first corners. All savy wreckers would do is wait until the no collision aspect ends to create havoc. This solution solves nothing.

It does solve some issues with first corner mistakes and over aggressiveness. But then again once ghosting stops, it would only delay the pile-up later.

So in reality this solution would only prevent issues caused by those who legitametly cannot navigate turn 1.

Automatic ghost of lapped down folks would have to be an option as well. This is a Good suggestion that would help with intentionally wreckers in most instances.

Like I said above, this would have to be an option. In multiclass races it is possible to lap lower class cars in laps allotted and for endurance racing this happens frequently.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#88 Posted : Tuesday, July 11, 2017 9:03:59 PM(UTC)
Imo it has to be a combination of a few things to force cleaner racing. Ghosting first corner and back markers is a good start (I don't like ghosting for an entire race, basically turns it into a hotlap competition rather than a race). Time penalties won't do much more than preventing someone from shortcuting to gain a position.
I think they need to introduce disqualification, use a tally of contact, off track and cut track from the lap invalidation system to determine when someone should be removed from the race.
Then use this tally system in combination with the race feats (good/perfect turn, good/perfect pass etc) to determine a driver rating, then players can easily determine if another player is a clean driver or dirty driver just by looking at their driver rating. This combined with a good vote to kick system should help Alot with weeding oUT griefers.
If they are going to insist on pushing hoppers then I think a system like this is necessary.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 11, 2017 9:06:49 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#89 Posted : Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:21:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TransAmConnor Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
It's all about match making and the lack of it. The Free for all that is the current hopper system is BROKEN and breeds a mentality of deperation within its player base.

GTA got it bang on seperating the dirty players and it works because as it's already been pointed out these ppl don't want to play with like minded idiots they want to ruin the fun of others for there own pleasure and thats not much fun when everyone is doing the same thing. I welcome the time penalties but let's face it so long as they can still join a lobby they will contiune being idiots and ruining it for the rest of us.

The question everyone shud really be asking is why are t10 so reluctant to deal with this issue head on. Ppl say it's been like this since the conception of online racing. So why are other titles getting this aspect right and t10 cant even fix a blatant cut on monza. I belive it's fear, the fear of loosing or alienating a group of players that t10 deem to be there bread and butter in sales.


GTA didn't really do it too well considering the entirety of that playerbase is toxic and would fall under the "dirty players" label. Last I played it, the only way you'd be dumped into the bad sport lobby was by continuously destroying other players insured cars.


As far as I'm aware you can be put in the dirty lobbys if you kill your team mates during missions or back out early causing a complete failiure. But even if it's just destroying insured cars that's enough to make it slightly better. That's all forza would need, 1 thing like driving backwards or cutting too often. If you could just seperate those groups of players it would improve the online experince massively
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#90 Posted : Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:20:39 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GURK3NS3PP Go to Quoted Post
Dont know if someone postet this already: https://ar12gaming.com/a...les/forza-7-adjudication

When asked about how Turn 10 plans to tackle the issues that plague online play in Forza Motorsport 6, Giese said the new Adjudication System in Forza Motorsport 7 will penalize players who cut corners, crash out other players, or do something else that could potentially give you an advantage or wouldn’t be considered sportsmanship. These penalties will see the game “take you down,” Giese said, revealing that players who cheat or race unclean could face added time on to their final lap and race total, or have their result marked as ‘dirty’ in Rivals.


I remember this. I took that as when the race is over, your race total time would be longer and you could potentially go down positions due to overall finish time.
Am I reading that right?

2013 HRPT long hauler in my 45th Anniversary SS!!!
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#91 Posted : Saturday, July 15, 2017 4:37:23 PM(UTC)
I haven't did multiplayer in a long time, but the intentional wreckers do ruin it, and it caused me to give up on it. I don't mind accidents, but you usually can tell who the intentional wreckers are. Many times they sit parked behind a wall waiting for you to drive by as they pull out, or even driving the opposite direction.

Penalties will do nothing to stop that as they obviously get their kicks out of wrecking people intentionally, I'm sure laughing as they do it.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#92 Posted : Saturday, July 15, 2017 6:05:35 PM(UTC)
Cars driving the wrong way should be ghosted. Drive too far in the wrong direction and you should be kicked from the race and lobby. Can't be too difficult to do.

-k
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#93 Posted : Saturday, July 15, 2017 6:08:57 PM(UTC)
I think 12 persons lobbies should be the max, this 24 with zero skill matching has made it a disaster. It's never been as bad as this since they made it 24. Not a race, more like navigating an obstacle course.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#94 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 6:25:08 AM(UTC)
FM6 is a lot better already. I was racing last night, and I had a great hour or two competing in GT Endurance. Admittedly this Hopper tends to have a lot fewer [Mod Edit - Profanity is not permitted - D] wreckers than the hate you find in the class lobbies.

In one race, I was chasing down third place at Hockenheim. I pulled even with him in going into the hairpin after the long backstraight. I stayed inside, on previous laps he always went very wide. I held my line, inside, and pulled ahead, as soon as I was just ahead of him, he spun me hard. I figured it was a fluke. Then I passed the guy in 2nd who was also spun. I will report the guy. My satisfaction came when first place spun this [Mod Edit - Profanity is not permitted - D]. These types have f issues are my biggest problem.

This happens to me about once during each race session. Overall things are not to bad. Yes, there is the first turn carnage, I usually try to beat that, or move over and thread my way through.

Overall, the biggest issue is shorter races. They need to Lengthen more of the races. This allows more time to catch back up. It also discourages [Mod Edit - Profanity is not permitted - D] as they don't want to wait for longer races to end, and don't want to spend that much time in one race.

Also, the aforementioned measures Turn 10 will put into FM7 sound promising. FM7 is going to cater to championship gaming. To do that, they HAVE to address the wreckers and grinder/griefers. It looks like that will happen.

Edited by user Monday, July 24, 2017 7:54:06 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#95 Posted : Monday, July 17, 2017 11:39:35 AM(UTC)
I still don't understand why the post race data can't go through some analysis and apply the results to racers driver class (grass roots, ... pro, elite, extreme) so that as you race cleaner and faster you make your way up the chain and if you start racing dirty or crashing others you get moved back down the chain. And if the driver class is applied to open multiplayer lobbies also you could expect the similar drivers no matter where you go. Since the race data is already available on the servers, it could be handed off to another server for analysis and determine the crashes that occurred over a certain amount of force with no prior impacts to the crashing driver within a small amount of time to eliminate the multi bump situations (that instigator only gets their class reduced). Also the same kind of situation could be applied to cutting corners by examining the race data and when a car cuts a corner when no other car is near by within a small amount of distance (that driver gets the class reduced). This would be a fractional adjustment per incident so the occasional oopss doesn't doesn't lower a racers class but persistent abuse would. This type of change would require very minimal changes to the multiplayer servers. When Forza 6 added leagues, I was realy expecting the higher up the chain you went, the cleaner the racing would be but that hasn't been the case. The crashers and cutters are still making their way into at least the pro and elite leagues that I have seen.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#96 Posted : Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:13:49 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TroubledCloth6 Go to Quoted Post
I still don't understand why the post race data can't go through some analysis and apply the results to racers driver class (grass roots, ... pro, elite, extreme) so that as you race cleaner and faster you make your way up the chain and if you start racing dirty or crashing others you get moved back down the chain. And if the driver class is applied to open multiplayer lobbies also you could expect the similar drivers no matter where you go. Since the race data is already available on the servers, it could be handed off to another server for analysis and determine the crashes that occurred over a certain amount of force with no prior impacts to the crashing driver within a small amount of time to eliminate the multi bump situations (that instigator only gets their class reduced). Also the same kind of situation could be applied to cutting corners by examining the race data and when a car cuts a corner when no other car is near by within a small amount of distance (that driver gets the class reduced). This would be a fractional adjustment per incident so the occasional oopss doesn't doesn't lower a racers class but persistent abuse would. This type of change would require very minimal changes to the multiplayer servers. When Forza 6 added leagues, I was realy expecting the higher up the chain you went, the cleaner the racing would be but that hasn't been the case. The crashers and cutters are still making their way into at least the pro and elite leagues that I have seen.


Yeah but if you are involved in the incident, then you too will be dinged even though you are the victim right?

2013 HRPT long hauler in my 45th Anniversary SS!!!
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#97 Posted : Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:21:42 AM(UTC)
Disqualification from the race if you make heavy contact more than 2 or 3 times. Although there would need to be something to make it so that people who did it thanks to collateral damage (getting rammed into another player hard which rams them off).

If you are going way too fast into a corner and are in somebody's path, you will be ghosted.

More lobby moderators and people who can review replays and ban the wreckers.

Better kicking system. Only requires 1/4 of the lobby's support for a kick instead of 1/2. If the user gets kicked multiple times in hoppers, they can get banned. (temp banned, leave perma bans to actual moderators)

Improved matchmaking. Puts you with drivers at similar driver level and assists for the closest and cleanest racing possible. (most drivers with many assists are rammers or noobs, people you generally want to avoid)

Edited by user Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:24:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#98 Posted : Wednesday, July 19, 2017 1:18:22 PM(UTC)
Just a visible vote to kick option along with actively displaying who is being nominated to be voted out would make a huge difference. At the moment if you vote to kick someone no-one else knows it unless they are one of the few people in the lobby who can hear you.

I get that in FM3 and 4 this was abused by the same wreckers we were trying to get rid of but at present they have no deterrent as they know they won't get kicked. If the whole lobby was aware that someone was up for being voted out then you would see more people vote making the number of votes needed a non issue.

Still good to know they have made noises about dealing with cutters and wreckers. Hopefully we will head something more specific soon
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#99 Posted : Thursday, July 20, 2017 4:26:03 AM(UTC)
You wouldn't even need vote to kick if there was a working penalty system in place that flagged and docked people real time. Even F1 going as far back as F1 2012 could determine whether the contact was your fault and make you give back places or get docked/DQ'd.

-k
Rank: On the Podium
#100 Posted : Monday, July 24, 2017 7:15:45 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kdogg788 Go to Quoted Post
You wouldn't even need vote to kick if there was a working penalty system in place that flagged and docked people real time. Even F1 going as far back as F1 2012 could determine whether the contact was your fault and make you give back places or get docked/DQ'd.

-k


An automated system requires a lot of testing and fine tuning; the majority of the Gran Turismo Sport Beta was spent refining that game's penalty system (while also being a server stress test) and it only started to come together towards the end. The F1 titles have a solid system in place but it's still prone to misjudgment.

An effective "Vote to Kick" system would help as griefers need to know that their actions have consequences.

Additionally, a driver rating system (either hidden or public) would be welcomed. If a driver's rating is low enough from an abnormally high number of crashes involving the front end of their car, they can only matchmake with similarly-inclined players, and won't be matched with the general population until they clean up their act.

There are many things that can be done to help "clean up" the Hoppers, but until the game is released we won't know if Turn 10 have made any improvements in this regard. If not, Gran Turismo Sport and [i]Project CARS 2[i] are just around the corner and from what I have seen and played so far it will have the cleanest online racing environment a racing game has seen for quite a while.
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