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Rank: S-Class Racing License
#26 Posted : Friday, June 16, 2017 10:36:39 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: JoeDiesle Go to Quoted Post
Not a good penality system. Crasher don't care about lap times or rivial times. And most of them cant run good times anyway. So whats the point, T10 can do better than this but wont because they are afraid of losing customers. $$$$$$$$


Are you sure about that? If it knocks down their race total times they will lose spots and finish lower.

-k
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#27 Posted : Friday, June 16, 2017 1:37:51 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HellsGrimReaper Go to Quoted Post
I agree time penalties will make minimum impact on the ones that just want to wreck. It won't make much difference on the track cutters either cause they cut to win. They don't care about time. It wouldn't stop the first turn wreck but one idea would be to make everyone not on the lead lap ghosted so guys can't wait to wreck people. Any improvements would be better the wild west as someone put it that we have now.


Actually think it this way, you and player X are having a race. You might have couple bumps, swap some paint but nothing serious, How ever, Player X starts cutting here and there, and starts gaining 3 seconds a lap, but at the same time every time he cuts he get's 2 second penalty from cutting.
Now lets say he is able to cut in 3 places on that track, and he cuts on all of those places in 3 laps
Therefore
3(seconds)x3(laps)=9(Seconds gained)
For every time he cut
3(laps)x3(cuts on a lap)=9(shortcut penalties)
Therefore
9(Penalties)x2(penalty seconds for each cut)=18(second total race time penalty)
And as he was 9 seconds ahead of you he places 9 seconds behind you. And assuming there was anyone behind you within those 9 seconds he will be behind them aswell.
Therefore he might have crossed the line 1st, but his total position in the race is 2nd-24th depending how many other cars managed to finish within those 9 seconds behind you.

On the flipside, if he would have raced properly he could have won, or he could have ended in 2nd place.
Proud member of Hard Luck Racing.

If your time isn't on HC board, it means nothing.

Mr. Oddball
Beat me with lotus, No big deal. Beat me with SUV, you have earned my respect
Rank: Racing Permit
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#28 Posted : Friday, June 16, 2017 1:59:19 PM(UTC)
Penalties are a good addition to help eliminate some of the corner cutting, but what happens when a crasher pushes you through a corner that you had no intention of cutting? I've had this happen numerous times on Yas Marina, Bugatti Circuit, Spa, and a few other tracks that I'm sure I'm forgetting. This would be very annoying if you got a penalty because of someone pushing you through a corner. Overall, I would agree that it would be more beneficial than nothing at all, but it's something to keep in mind.

With hoppers in mind, one of the best changes would be to ghost cars that aren't moving. This would help eliminate some of the beginning of race mayhem due to cars not moving. It would perhaps make sense to extend ghosting to cars that are going under a certain speed or spinning out, going backwards, etc.. It is annoying having your race ruined due to crashers on the first couple turns, and if people were ghosted it would make things more enjoyable online.

Another thing that has been mentioned is ghosting people a lap down waiting to wreck others. If you are a lap down you should always be ghosted.
Rank: On the Podium
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#29 Posted : Friday, June 16, 2017 1:59:53 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kdogg788 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JoeDiesle Go to Quoted Post
Not a good penality system. Crasher don't care about lap times or rivial times. And most of them cant run good times anyway. So whats the point, T10 can do better than this but wont because they are afraid of losing customers. $$$$$$$$


Are you sure about that? If it knocks down their race total times they will lose spots and finish lower.

-k


The kinds of players that like to go car bowling often don't even finish the races they take part in, a 5 second penalty does nothing to somebody who has a DNF next to their name.

If the kick-voting system is highly visible and effective that would help a lot, with time penalties taking care of the corner-cutters.

There's needs to be some effective method of telling people that deliberately setting out to ruin the fun of others is not okay, as in recent games it has been deemed perfectly acceptable to punt somebody off the road.

Leagues and private racing are fine for those with the time or competitive spirit to take part in such things, but the bread and butter of Forza Multiplayer is the Hopper system and the "hop on and play" experience should be nowhere near as negative as it has been in the past few years.

If the Hoppers get cleaned up, the community demand for Custom Public Lobbies will vanish.

Edited by user Friday, June 16, 2017 3:16:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: I am fully aware that we cannot "change" the plan for FM7 at this point, so let's wait

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#30 Posted : Friday, June 16, 2017 2:16:41 PM(UTC)
Time Penaltys mean nothing for Crashers and Cheaters. But the penalty time should be summed up and when they have 1 minute total they should receive a puplic lobby ban.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#31 Posted : Friday, June 16, 2017 3:31:34 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GURK3NS3PP Go to Quoted Post
Time Penaltys mean nothing for Crashers and Cheaters. But the penalty time should be summed up and when they have 1 minute total they should receive a puplic lobby ban.


While in a way I do agree, but I also think that 1 minute is too strict
If assuming the time penalty per cut/crash would be set to 5-10 seconds it would rack up that 60 seconds quite fast.
Let's assume someone else has a bump and pins in front of you, you fail to avoid,
You recive 10 seconds
you avoid accident, but are forced to cut
You recive 10 seconds
Someone bumps you you end up overshooting your braking due to that bump, and while you try to avoid you have to cut, that isnt enough, and you bump someone else
20 sec
you do a little mistake on your own, and cut 10 seconds
We are allready at 50 seconds, 4 laps to go. Will you just simply stop driving and return to lobby, as you might make another mistake?
Or will you keep racing and hope for the best.

And will it carry to next race?
If it does just about everyone will end up being banned from bublic lobbies.
Proud member of Hard Luck Racing.

If your time isn't on HC board, it means nothing.

Mr. Oddball
Beat me with lotus, No big deal. Beat me with SUV, you have earned my respect
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#32 Posted : Friday, June 16, 2017 6:03:26 PM(UTC)
Hopefully the penalties are escalating rather than fixed; 1 cut you get a warning, 2nd cut you get 5 secs, 3rd you get 10secs, and 4th you get DNFed.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#33 Posted : Friday, June 16, 2017 11:26:05 PM(UTC)
This 1 minute total was only a example.
Rank: Driver's License
#34 Posted : Wednesday, June 28, 2017 11:30:31 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ElfVierzehn Go to Quoted Post
... online regulations. I want to keep this thread simple: The only reason for me to buy this game is, if they finally integrate regulations for online play. I know, it won't be a 100% simulation. But it won't be playable online aswell, if the players rampage into each other in the first corner in every race. People might say now - 'don't play online, just play with your friends'. That's not an argument at all imo. So I would love to get some support about this.

Thanks! 1114


YouTube Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEj5woTbRtE&t=5s

Driver Infraction Adjudication was not properly answered by Da[/url]n Greenwalt when interviewed b[/url]y MotorWolrdHype but here is an Article with Creative director Bill Giese addressing this issue more in depth. https://ar12gaming.com/a...les/forza-7-adjudication

Bill Giese said "The new Adjudication System in Forza Motorsport 7 will penalize players who cut corners, crash out other players, or do something else that could potentially give you an advantage or wouldn’t be considered sportsmanship. These penalties will see the game “take you down,” Giese said, revealing that players who cheat or race unclean could face added time on to their final lap and race total, or have their result marked as ‘dirty’ in Rivals."


Bill Giese should have done the interview with MotorWorldHype.

THIS IS GREAT NEWS FOR FORZA MOTORSPORT AS A WHOLE!

GOOD WORK TURN 10 STUDIOS.
Now I can renew my XBOX Gold Membership.

Edited by user Wednesday, June 28, 2017 12:25:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Race your best lap time, And NOT the Cars ahead or behind you, pass only if you can cleanly, and never block.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#35 Posted : Wednesday, June 28, 2017 11:45:10 AM(UTC)
"These penalties won’t apply to Campaign if the player desires..."

This seems like it means that these penalties can be applied in the career mode as well. Maybe its a new setting in the difficulty menu?

If so I hope they are turned on by default. Maybe some people will finally learn what real race etiquette is when the game starts docking them points and/or time in career.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#36 Posted : Wednesday, June 28, 2017 1:44:00 PM(UTC)
Although this new penalty system has only been hinted at and we're a long way from knowing the detail, this could potentially be the single biggest improvement over previous releases. It's a shame that the One X, 4K and other game details have grabbed the headlines and we have to wait to have the penalty system fleshed out.

Let's hope that "take you down" really means take you down.
Rank: On the Podium
#37 Posted : Wednesday, June 28, 2017 3:29:47 PM(UTC)
I believe I read in one of the interviews that these penalties will only apply in Leagues and Forza RC events. They are welcome there of course but the Hoppers are where they are most desperately needed.

Hopefully that was just something I misread/misheard; any penalty systems in place should apply to all aspects of Multiplayer, especially the Public Hoppers where crashing has been a big issue for years.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#38 Posted : Wednesday, June 28, 2017 4:04:40 PM(UTC)
Perhaps for those who just crash and cause chaos then leave, maybe having a penalty system that becomes a block for entering certain lobbies(i.e. any lobby that isn't game modes like tag, etc.) if the person hasn't served their penalty, like a 5 second penalty accumulated by a crasher becomes a 5 minute block from going into racing lobbies again but still lets them play game modes that do involve a certain amount of crashing. Additionally, there could be a message that gives them the idea that crashing during racing is not acceptable but there are lobbies and game modes that do have crashing in them, thereby pointing them to the tag, king ,etc. game modes.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#39 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 12:28:49 AM(UTC)
You'll not find one solution to two separate problems.

Problem 1.
Cheater who wants to win and does so by exceeding track limits.
Time penalties are an ideal solution.

Problem 2.
The demolition derby brigade.
Accumulated DNFs and instances of contact leading to timed suspension of MP access would do nicely.

Overriding problem is that T10 don't want to force players to play one way or another and believe that all types of play should be possible.

The solution to this would be an option in SP to toggle "racing rules applied" and a separate lobby in each class.

This in itself would filter players quite well and a wrecker in a lobby running rules would likely get kicked PDQ.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#40 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 12:31:22 AM(UTC)
Given the fact that Turn10 remains unable to get multiplayer grievers and cheaters dealt with, why
won't they just work with a license system like iRacing, where you collect a certain score based on
how you drive. The scoring is based on a large variety of factors, but most importantly probably is
the safety rating. This is based on how much you go off track of crash, which would be an ideal tool
to group players that are serious and just want a good race. This system wouldn't need tirewalls
or sticky grass since your basically regulating your own score and accountability of who you'll get
to race with?

This seems a far clever way of dealing with grievers and crashers, they basically will be doomed to
race with people like themselves and if there aren't enough people available to race with the similar
terrible saferty rating as themselves they are just out of luck...

This seems like a watertight way of getting multiplayer back on track, given the fact that it also
works brilliantly with iRacing...
''With your mind power, your determination, your instinct and
the experience as well. You can fly very high.'' - Ayrton Senna

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#41 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 1:26:18 AM(UTC)
The fundamental problem with MP is that all the lobbies are so mixed-skill. Good players are forced to race in the same lobbies with people who can't even drive around the track successfully on their own, let alone in traffic.

All the lobby rules in the world won't change that. The only way to change is to allow good players to avoid having to race with poor players.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#42 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 8:36:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Zedeeyen Go to Quoted Post
The fundamental problem with MP is that all the lobbies are so mixed-skill. Good players are forced to race in the same lobbies with people who can't even drive around the track successfully on their own, let alone in traffic.

All the lobby rules in the world won't change that. The only way to change is to allow good players to avoid having to race with poor players.


They tried that with leagues, it didn't work. A lot of people don't wreck because they're unskilled, they do it because THEY WANT TO.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#43 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 8:55:26 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Zedeeyen Go to Quoted Post
The fundamental problem with MP is that all the lobbies are so mixed-skill. Good players are forced to race in the same lobbies with people who can't even drive around the track successfully on their own, let alone in traffic.

All the lobby rules in the world won't change that. The only way to change is to allow good players to avoid having to race with poor players.


They tried that with leagues, it didn't work. A lot of people don't wreck because they're unskilled, they do it because THEY WANT TO.


Nonsense. The number of players who smash into people on purpose is vanishingly small compared to the number who do it through incompetence. Leagues were a stab at a solution. They were pretty poor but the amount of crashing in Pinnacle at least was way lower than in public hoppers, and intentional rammers were practically non-existent. It was still a lot crashier than it should have been though, because the criteria T10 used for assigning people to a division were so blunt - based purely on wins vs losses with no regard to temperament or skill.

Better rules might make League hoppers better, but they won't make the slightest difference to general hoppers.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#44 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 8:57:42 AM(UTC)
I think the main issue with Turn 10 and griefers is that they have a lot of in-game tools that already exist that they can use to punish these idiots, such as ghosting, kicking for inactivity, automatic DNF's, but they choose not to utilize them. They instead go out of their way to penalize lap times which is the last thing that griefers care about so essentially does squat about the actual problem.

They could so easily fix this, but they just don't. I'm fairly certain that they don't care at all about the public hoppers.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#45 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 9:12:40 AM(UTC)
Nonsense? You not played online much? Maybe you don't realise but those people wrecking you aren't doing it by accident 99% of the time.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#46 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 9:34:39 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Nonsense? You not played online much? Maybe you don't realise but those people wrecking you aren't doing it by accident 99% of the time.


I play online exclusively, pretty much every day.

In most lobbies, about a third of the people in there can't drive around the track on their own without falling off, hitting walls, or spinning out. They just can't play the game well enough to race. Another third can drive around the track OK but they are erratic, make lots of mistakes, take weird lines and brake and accelerate in weird places, and have no racecraft at all. Only in about 1 lobby in 10 is there a genuine griefer who is intentionally crashing into people.

99% of the times I get smashed off the track, it's unintentional.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#47 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 9:38:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
You'll not find one solution to two separate problems.

Problem 1.
Cheater who wants to win and does so by exceeding track limits.
Time penalties are an ideal solution.

Problem 2.
The demolition derby brigade.
Accumulated DNFs and instances of contact leading to timed suspension of MP access would do nicely.

Overriding problem is that T10 don't want to force players to play one way or another and believe that all types of play should be possible.

The solution to this would be an option in SP to toggle "racing rules applied" and a separate lobby in each class.

This in itself would filter players quite well and a wrecker in a lobby running rules would likely get kicked PDQ.


Then why don't T10 go down the CS:GO route with penalties, where unsporting behavior(crashing, driving the wrong way or leaving a race when a person isn't winning) results in them not being able to join any multiplayer races for x amount of minutes depending upon how often they crashed people or how long they drove the wrong way with a set amount of minutes for rage quits. That would actually work well as a deterrent for these people, and would help with the more serious Esports arena that they want Forza to enter.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#48 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 2:31:08 PM(UTC)
I would imagine if there is an adjudication system in place, it will start matching up players based on this system. I.e. the griefers will get filtered into their own lobbies from hell where it takes an hour to complete a race because of constant carnage, those of us that prefer our racing clean will be paired up. It will take time for this to really go into effect but over time the lobbies will clean up.
Forza Faithful Since May 3rd, 2005
Former technician
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#49 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 3:10:57 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CanineWord97990 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
You'll not find one solution to two separate problems.

Problem 1.
Cheater who wants to win and does so by exceeding track limits.
Time penalties are an ideal solution.

Problem 2.
The demolition derby brigade.
Accumulated DNFs and instances of contact leading to timed suspension of MP access would do nicely.

Overriding problem is that T10 don't want to force players to play one way or another and believe that all types of play should be possible.

The solution to this would be an option in SP to toggle "racing rules applied" and a separate lobby in each class.

This in itself would filter players quite well and a wrecker in a lobby running rules would likely get kicked PDQ.


Then why don't T10 go down the CS:GO route with penalties, where unsporting behavior(crashing, driving the wrong way or leaving a race when a person isn't winning) results in them not being able to join any multiplayer races for x amount of minutes depending upon how often they crashed people or how long they drove the wrong way with a set amount of minutes for rage quits. That would actually work well as a deterrent for these people, and would help with the more serious Esports arena that they want Forza to enter.


Because T10 are trying to make a game for everyone. This includes the knuckleheads. The only problem with this is that knuckleheads and "normal" people end up in the same race.

I like to race as properly as I can and I don't even take advantage of these so called clean cuts. That's my choice. Knuckleheads get their kicks from causing pile ups or from preventing people from completing a lap. At then end of the day folks can play how they like, it's their game, but we just need a little segregation. In this topic all roads lead to Rome, we're all after the same thing. Racers sharing a lobby with racers and people that like to create mayhem in a lobby with others that like to create mayhem. How this is achieved doesn't really matter. It doesn't need CPLs, just a lobby for each preference.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#50 Posted : Friday, June 30, 2017 3:51:19 PM(UTC)
Imagine what, say, the BTCC would look like if there were only 3 laps in a race, no stewards, and half the drivers were drunk and/ or had never driven around that track before.

My guess is it would look a lot like Forza multiplayer.
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