3 Pages123PrevNext
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#26 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 1:21:59 AM(UTC)
I think taking the line away is a good thing as it will aid to less chaos and better virtual racing in general and in the longer run. Before you shoot - my experience in hoppers shows that a lot of new [and some not so new] players race with the line on, but on most circuits when the cars [ two or sometimes 3 next to each other] approach the first corner, 80% of the drivers suddenly can't see the racing/braking at all due to the cars ahead packed close together. So now they start guessing the braking point, either braking to early [and get hit from behind] or break too late [and hit the cars in front]. This apply equally for the next few corners too. So with no braking line, people are forced to learn to look at different braking signs that will be visible all the time. If people are willing to learn and practice new ways is another question as GTR Rossi has said, but they don't practice breaking anyways with the line on. I always raced with the line on just for reference, but now adapted quickly and am actually now faster without the line.

That being said, I think that it's a bad time for this change to be applied which can cause many good players to miss the boat. Keeping in mind that each region is capped at 192 racers, perhaps the Rivals [without the line and with a required lap time or something] could have been used to qualify for the races. That way people will not only be taught better skills and will know the track, but also would allow skill levels to be grouped together for the races.

PS. For the newer guys and others struggling with the breaking lines, there's a good video for this track and car by JSR Devon on YouTube and a livestream by F4H Super GT.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 2, 2017 1:42:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified


Better than always being right is knowing when to shut up
_______________________________________________________________________
FH, FM3, FM4, FM5, FH2, FM6, FM7
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#27 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 1:35:43 AM(UTC)
The Forza RC finals have always managed a 1-lap qualifying session before each race. As there will be a marshal present in all of the S3 races, I'm not really sure why this isn't being done this time.

Although, it could be argued that completely random lobbies and massive pile-ups at turn 1 is more true to the franchise :D
Rank: Driver's License
#28 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 7:35:14 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
Does it state that as well in the forzaRC rules?


Yes. No clue on how this will be enforced. Maybe it's a hidden option on leaderboards?

1.4 Game settings (Rivals)
All rivals times must be set with the following maximum level of assists – For example, ABS could be turned off if drivers wish:

Suggested Line = Off
Braking = ABS On
Steering = Normal
Traction & Stability Control = TCS & STM On
Shifting = Automatic
Damage, Fuel & Tire Wear = Cosmetic
Rewind = Off


I'm confused. Here: https://forzarc.gfinity.net/recreation/rules it says, under "Assists": "Drivers may use any assists they so wish.". So, should I turn suggested line off or can I have it On?
Rank: On the Podium
#29 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 7:57:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ze Sennas Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
Does it state that as well in the forzaRC rules?


Yes. No clue on how this will be enforced. Maybe it's a hidden option on leaderboards?

1.4 Game settings (Rivals)
All rivals times must be set with the following maximum level of assists – For example, ABS could be turned off if drivers wish:

Suggested Line = Off
Braking = ABS On
Steering = Normal
Traction & Stability Control = TCS & STM On
Shifting = Automatic
Damage, Fuel & Tire Wear = Cosmetic
Rewind = Off


I'm confused. Here: https://forzarc.gfinity.net/recreation/rules it says, under "Assists": "Drivers may use any assists they so wish.". So, should I turn suggested line off or can I have it On?


It won't let you run line even if activated on your assists.

As for rewind, you can still run with rewind ON. Will that disqualify many? Maybe. Not sure how that will be policed.

Edit: your link is to the recreation series. The elite series has a different rule set.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 2, 2017 7:59:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#30 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 9:27:18 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
As for rewind, you can still run with rewind ON. Will that disqualify many? Maybe. Not sure how that will be policed.


I don't think they care considering that rewind auto-dirties your lap, and if they did they would've forced it off along with the line.

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#31 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 9:59:04 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR M Rossi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
As for rewind, you can still run with rewind ON. Will that disqualify many? Maybe. Not sure how that will be policed.


I don't think they care considering that rewind auto-dirties your lap, and if they did they would've forced it off along with the line.



In other words: You've used it even though you knew you should not and now you do not want them to invalidate your lap.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#32 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 10:05:39 AM(UTC)
rewind dirties your lap always and obviously when you use it, otherwise cheating would be all over the place. You can run with it on but cannot use it to cheat your way to getting a clean lap. It's for practice. Unbelievable.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 2, 2017 10:10:31 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#33 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:06:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TomentosePiano3 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR M Rossi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
As for rewind, you can still run with rewind ON. Will that disqualify many? Maybe. Not sure how that will be policed.


I don't think they care considering that rewind auto-dirties your lap, and if they did they would've forced it off along with the line.



In other words: You've used it even though you knew you should not and now you do not want them to invalidate your lap.


Umm. no, the game already polices rewind itself by dirtying the laps when rewind is used, and the leaderboards don't say whether you left it on or not, so it's impossible for an outside force to know if you've used it or not. It doesn't matter if you left rewind on, as long as you get a fast clean lap without physically rewinding once, that's all that matters :)

Edited by user Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:07:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#34 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:53:07 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: LMP Riptide Go to Quoted Post
I think taking the line away is a good thing as it will aid to less chaos and better virtual racing in general and in the longer run. Before you shoot - my experience in hoppers shows that a lot of new [and some not so new] players race with the line on, but on most circuits when the cars [ two or sometimes 3 next to each other] approach the first corner, 80% of the drivers suddenly can't see the racing/braking at all due to the cars ahead packed close together. So now they start guessing the braking point, either braking to early [and get hit from behind] or break too late [and hit the cars in front]. This apply equally for the next few corners too. So with no braking line, people are forced to learn to look at different braking signs that will be visible all the time. If people are willing to learn and practice new ways is another question as GTR Rossi has said, but they don't practice breaking anyways with the line on. I always raced with the line on just for reference, but now adapted quickly and am actually now faster without the line.

That being said, I think that it's a bad time for this change to be applied which can cause many good players to miss the boat. Keeping in mind that each region is capped at 192 racers, perhaps the Rivals [without the line and with a required lap time or something] could have been used to qualify for the races. That way people will not only be taught better skills and will know the track, but also would allow skill levels to be grouped together for the races.

PS. For the newer guys and others struggling with the breaking lines, there's a good video for this track and car by JSR Devon on YouTube and a livestream by F4H Super GT.


Well put! I still have my doubts about the races and randomizing the grid, however, I was just in a public hopper and forgot to turn on the racing line. Being on a track I have had no practice with, I was hitting good braking points right out of the gate. As players become more comfortable without the line on, I think we'll see even faster laps being put down.

As for the way Season 3 is set up, I too feel as though they should have kept it like it was in seasons 1 and 2 and used rivals to qualify for the regional races. Take the top 150 or what have you from each region in rivals and then group them by fastest time would have been a great idea. This format of separating rivals and races in just crazy. Here's hoping they get it right again for season 4.

Rank: Racing Legend
#35 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 7:54:32 PM(UTC)
Sounds to me like good intentions but time will tell whether it was the right adjustment to make and/or the right time to make it.
I blame the ants.
Rank: On the Podium
#36 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 8:33:54 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
rewind dirties your lap always and obviously when you use it, otherwise cheating would be all over the place. You can run with it on but cannot use it to cheat your way to getting a clean lap. It's for practice. Unbelievable.


Well duh. I don't think you understand my question.

It's super technical but according to the rules if you have rewind assist set to ON the clean lap you ran is disallowable according to the rules.

It's possible this data is hidden on the leaderboards and gfinity has access.

I've been running rewind assist to OFF according to rule book. It's been a long process but I'm finally seeing huge gains. Eventually I'll stick the lap my split times show me at.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#37 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 10:19:28 PM(UTC)
I think Swerve is right, although I'm not sure if such data [rewind usage] would be available. For most however it's plain semantics. To qualify they take 50 from Rivals over the 4 weeks [8xRivals] divided between the regions. So if you're not within your region's "qualify cap" like top 23 in EMEA or 15 in NA[counting GF points and not times] , then your times/points are for glory only. So if a player in EMEA lies no. 100 on the region LB [counting points, not times], rewind use or not will make no difference anyway.

Better than always being right is knowing when to shut up
_______________________________________________________________________
FH, FM3, FM4, FM5, FH2, FM6, FM7
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#38 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 10:30:08 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
rewind dirties your lap always and obviously when you use it, otherwise cheating would be all over the place. You can run with it on but cannot use it to cheat your way to getting a clean lap. It's for practice. Unbelievable.


Well duh. I don't think you understand my question.

It's super technical but according to the rules if you have rewind assist set to ON the clean lap you ran is disallowable according to the rules.

It's possible this data is hidden on the leaderboards and gfinity has access.

I've been running rewind assist to OFF according to rule book. It's been a long process but I'm finally seeing huge gains. Eventually I'll stick the lap my split times show me at.



Again though, if it isn't allowed then why didn't they force it off along with the line? Clearly they could've done so but chose not to. Regardless though, a ghosts data only shows assists for braking, stm/tcs, auto/manual/manual clutch, and whether a ghost for the lap is uploaded and what tune was used. I find it highly unlikely that Turn 10 programmed a way to see if people had rewind on in anticipation of a tournament with a last minute rule change 2 years after the game's release.

The official warning that appears before you start the rival also does not mention rewind. If they find it that big of an issue then they will force it off in the next rival. Otherwise, just race on.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 2, 2017 10:35:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#39 Posted : Tuesday, May 2, 2017 11:45:26 PM(UTC)
Personally I'm a bit slower than I am with the line , I have try'd about 30laps on CATALUNYA in the Porsche rc but for me it's not the racing line that's the issue , they took that away but there is no breaking zone markers on the side of the track either like you get in most of the corners around the tracks this would atleast give a reference point also if you chance some one like lightnings ghost that gives you point of ref too , the downside is the fast guys are still the fastest without the line lol
Painter on Forza - flying solo 😔

See my twitter feed: https://twitter.com/evod...1146044913840209920?s=12
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#40 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 12:16:29 AM(UTC)
I turned rewind off because I assumed they'd force if off anyway like they do with the line, but having just checked and realised they don't, I would be amazed if anyone who didn't disable it gets DQed.
Rank: On the Podium
#41 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:30:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: LMP Riptide Go to Quoted Post
I think Swerve is right, although I'm not sure if such data [rewind usage] would be available. For most however it's plain semantics. To qualify they take 50 from Rivals over the 4 weeks [8xRivals] divided between the regions. So if you're not within your region's "qualify cap" like top 23 in EMEA or 15 in NA[counting GF points and not times] , then your times/points are for glory only. So if a player in EMEA lies no. 100 on the region LB [counting points, not times], rewind use or not will make no difference anyway.


Where did you get this info?

From what I can see the 50 from rivals are top 50 global rivals. The 50 from races are broken out by region.
Rank: On the Podium
#42 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:36:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR M Rossi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
rewind dirties your lap always and obviously when you use it, otherwise cheating would be all over the place. You can run with it on but cannot use it to cheat your way to getting a clean lap. It's for practice. Unbelievable.


Well duh. I don't think you understand my question.

It's super technical but according to the rules if you have rewind assist set to ON the clean lap you ran is disallowable according to the rules.

It's possible this data is hidden on the leaderboards and gfinity has access.

I've been running rewind assist to OFF according to rule book. It's been a long process but I'm finally seeing huge gains. Eventually I'll stick the lap my split times show me at.



Again though, if it isn't allowed then why didn't they force it off along with the line? Clearly they could've done so but chose not to. Regardless though, a ghosts data only shows assists for braking, stm/tcs, auto/manual/manual clutch, and whether a ghost for the lap is uploaded and what tune was used. I find it highly unlikely that Turn 10 programmed a way to see if people had rewind on in anticipation of a tournament with a last minute rule change 2 years after the game's release.

The official warning that appears before you start the rival also does not mention rewind. If they find it that big of an issue then they will force it off in the next rival. Otherwise, just race on.


This is why I'm asking. The official warning and actual rivals settings conflict with stated rules on gfinity.

My thought is the hidden data (if it exists) has been around since at least FM5. My thought is that they could have graphically displayed this data but realized that such info doesn't really matter for 99.9% of rivals events. Odds are a rivals event such as this was never preconceived.

I just want official confirmation. My hands will be thankful.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#43 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:39:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LMP Riptide Go to Quoted Post
I think Swerve is right, although I'm not sure if such data [rewind usage] would be available. For most however it's plain semantics. To qualify they take 50 from Rivals over the 4 weeks [8xRivals] divided between the regions. So if you're not within your region's "qualify cap" like top 23 in EMEA or 15 in NA[counting GF points and not times] , then your times/points are for glory only. So if a player in EMEA lies no. 100 on the region LB [counting points, not times], rewind use or not will make no difference anyway.


Where did you get this info?

From what I can see the 50 from rivals are top 50 global rivals. The 50 from races are broken out by region.


I agree with the way you've read it. The top 50 rivals is global, nothing to do with region. The regional element applies only to the races.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#44 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 4:42:28 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LMP Riptide Go to Quoted Post
I think Swerve is right, although I'm not sure if such data [rewind usage] would be available. For most however it's plain semantics. To qualify they take 50 from Rivals over the 4 weeks [8xRivals] divided between the regions. So if you're not within your region's "qualify cap" like top 23 in EMEA or 15 in NA[counting GF points and not times] , then your times/points are for glory only. So if a player in EMEA lies no. 100 on the region LB [counting points, not times], rewind use or not will make no difference anyway.


Where did you get this info?

From what I can see the 50 from rivals are top 50 global rivals. The 50 from races are broken out by region.


Apologies, you are correct, thanks. BUT then it only strengthen my point.

Better than always being right is knowing when to shut up
_______________________________________________________________________
FH, FM3, FM4, FM5, FH2, FM6, FM7
Rank: On the Podium
#45 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 5:05:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Zedeeyen Go to Quoted Post
I turned rewind off because I assumed they'd force if off anyway like they do with the line, but having just checked and realised they don't, I would be amazed if anyone who didn't disable it gets DQed.


One thing to test is if you can enable Rewind, not use it on any Rivals, and still get classified on the Hardcore leaderboard.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#46 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 5:08:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Zedeeyen Go to Quoted Post
I turned rewind off because I assumed they'd force if off anyway like they do with the line, but having just checked and realised they don't, I would be amazed if anyone who didn't disable it gets DQed.


One thing to test is if you can enable Rewind, not use it on any Rivals, and still get classified on the Hardcore leaderboard.


Rewind has never affected Hardcore leaderboard times.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#47 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 5:36:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR M Rossi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
rewind dirties your lap always and obviously when you use it, otherwise cheating would be all over the place. You can run with it on but cannot use it to cheat your way to getting a clean lap. It's for practice. Unbelievable.


Well duh. I don't think you understand my question.

It's super technical but according to the rules if you have rewind assist set to ON the clean lap you ran is disallowable according to the rules.

It's possible this data is hidden on the leaderboards and gfinity has access.

I've been running rewind assist to OFF according to rule book. It's been a long process but I'm finally seeing huge gains. Eventually I'll stick the lap my split times show me at.



Again though, if it isn't allowed then why didn't they force it off along with the line? Clearly they could've done so but chose not to. Regardless though, a ghosts data only shows assists for braking, stm/tcs, auto/manual/manual clutch, and whether a ghost for the lap is uploaded and what tune was used. I find it highly unlikely that Turn 10 programmed a way to see if people had rewind on in anticipation of a tournament with a last minute rule change 2 years after the game's release.

The official warning that appears before you start the rival also does not mention rewind. If they find it that big of an issue then they will force it off in the next rival. Otherwise, just race on.


This is why I'm asking. The official warning and actual rivals settings conflict with stated rules on gfinity.

My thought is the hidden data (if it exists) has been around since at least FM5. My thought is that they could have graphically displayed this data but realized that such info doesn't really matter for 99.9% of rivals events. Odds are a rivals event such as this was never preconceived.

I just want official confirmation. My hands will be thankful.


My bet is that the person who wrote the rules has little to no idea how Forza works, the exact same reason that whole "3 people per team" rule was a thing until many players called it out.

Rank: On the Podium
#48 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 6:20:11 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR M Rossi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR M Rossi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
rewind dirties your lap always and obviously when you use it, otherwise cheating would be all over the place. You can run with it on but cannot use it to cheat your way to getting a clean lap. It's for practice. Unbelievable.


Well duh. I don't think you understand my question.

It's super technical but according to the rules if you have rewind assist set to ON the clean lap you ran is disallowable according to the rules.

It's possible this data is hidden on the leaderboards and gfinity has access.

I've been running rewind assist to OFF according to rule book. It's been a long process but I'm finally seeing huge gains. Eventually I'll stick the lap my split times show me at.



Again though, if it isn't allowed then why didn't they force it off along with the line? Clearly they could've done so but chose not to. Regardless though, a ghosts data only shows assists for braking, stm/tcs, auto/manual/manual clutch, and whether a ghost for the lap is uploaded and what tune was used. I find it highly unlikely that Turn 10 programmed a way to see if people had rewind on in anticipation of a tournament with a last minute rule change 2 years after the game's release.

The official warning that appears before you start the rival also does not mention rewind. If they find it that big of an issue then they will force it off in the next rival. Otherwise, just race on.


This is why I'm asking. The official warning and actual rivals settings conflict with stated rules on gfinity.

My thought is the hidden data (if it exists) has been around since at least FM5. My thought is that they could have graphically displayed this data but realized that such info doesn't really matter for 99.9% of rivals events. Odds are a rivals event such as this was never preconceived.

I just want official confirmation. My hands will be thankful.


My bet is that the person who wrote the rules has little to no idea how Forza works, the exact same reason that whole "3 people per team" rule was a thing until many players called it out.



You're probably right. A lot of the original confusing language seems to have been rewritten/deleted. I guess we will find out tomorrow.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#49 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 7:30:32 AM(UTC)
Some great responses guys, thanks. I don't think the following points have been addresses;

This event is ment to be inclusive to all. Removing the line makes it less inclusive

It's called the elite series but I don't think that means the elite of the elite it's just a name the event is certainly marketed as 1 for everyone regardless of skill level.

There is a unfair advantage to those that have not used racing line from the start. 3 weeks is no where near enough time to get used to this. Some of us have put years into the way we play the game.

Regardless of how you personally feel about the rule change just ask yourself do you want a event that only the very best (top 16) can enter and win prizes. Or do you want an event that includes all aspecs of the community and rewards people for doing well in there respected class/division. Personally I don't just want to be cannon fodder for the top 16.

Great effort from gfininty and t10 but u have failed to create the most inclusive racing programe. More needs to be done for the middle and lower group of players. Thanks for the races and rivals that's bang on. I think the next logical step is to seperate everyone into divisions and have an event that Taylors it self to each group not just the elite of the elite
Rank: On the Podium
#50 Posted : Wednesday, May 3, 2017 9:16:51 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
Some great responses guys, thanks. I don't think the following points have been addresses;

This event is ment to be inclusive to all. Removing the line makes it less inclusive

It's called the elite series but I don't think that means the elite of the elite it's just a name the event is certainly marketed as 1 for everyone regardless of skill level.

There is a unfair advantage to those that have not used racing line from the start. 3 weeks is no where near enough time to get used to this. Some of us have put years into the way we play the game.

Regardless of how you personally feel about the rule change just ask yourself do you want a event that only the very best (top 16) can enter and win prizes. Or do you want an event that includes all aspecs of the community and rewards people for doing well in there respected class/division. Personally I don't just want to be cannon fodder for the top 16.

Great effort from gfininty and t10 but u have failed to create the most inclusive racing programe. More needs to be done for the middle and lower group of players. Thanks for the races and rivals that's bang on. I think the next logical step is to seperate everyone into divisions and have an event that Taylors it self to each group not just the elite of the elite



I use racing line and am finally running my practice times. With no rewind it's taken about 4 hours of play time and around 150 laps. It's possible to adapt in a quick time frame.

T10 said they wanted to increase the difficulty. It's open to all but they warn everyone what task will be needed. Only the elite for the most part will survive. A few underdogs may make it too.

Good points on rewards. Per rules if you place at a certain level you're DQ'd from recreation prizes. If you miss out on finale but still meet the DQ provision, a small prize would be cool. I know I'll likely fall into this void and some reward for doing well would be amazing.
3 Pages123PrevNext

Notification

Icon
Error