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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#1 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 2:36:24 AM(UTC)
After the recent rules changes it would appear that the racing line will be forced off for both rivals and races. There is no official explanation for this so I can only assume it's so the event looks "more proffessional" during offline events. Other than that I can't think of a single reason why they would implement such a rule. It's not like forza is a sim racer it's simply an arcade racing game that focuses more on car culture than motorsport. So the argument for this rule change being more realistic is over before its started, the old saying goes u can't polish a **** and in the same breath u can't make a arcade game look and feel like a sim racer by turning the line off.

Basically rather than being "the most inclusive esports programe" this rule change makes it the most exclusive where only the very best will be able to enter with any sort of confidence. Further more those that have used the line all along only have a few days to catch up with those that have always had it off. We are talking years of practice compared to a few days. Well done to t10 and gfininty for making this event unfair and baised towards the elite of the elite. Meanwhile the rest of the community get told to suck it up while they have a perfect shot of lightning racing in a chair with no line on. Oh my that line must've really put ppl off from watching. The 20 30 mins between each race and the rubbish track limits are way more important than the stupid line. Get a grip u lot and start addressing the real issues
Rank: On the Podium
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#2 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 2:52:29 AM(UTC)
If somebody's good enough to win a "professional gaming tournament" they're good enough to drive without the Racing Line ;)

That being said, I don't know how they will enforce line-off in Rivals; maybe they'll be using the [Hardcore] filter for final placings as you can't set a time on that board unless Racing Line is disabled.

Regarding inclusiveness, the Recreation Series (Forza Horizon 3) is there for more casual players.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#3 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 3:03:32 AM(UTC)
I do not accept the Recreational series as a suitable alternative to the elite, they are diffrent games and should imo be treated separately.

I belive t10 can set up a board anyway they like. They have the same options we have when setting up a lobby and some extra 1s too for instance blacklisting individual cars

I accept that if u can win the elite series you can doit without the line. But if that is all this is about then what's the rest of us here for. I personally like the experince and I like to be able to enter with the confidence I will do the best I can and not take ppl off the track. Each day this is starting to sound like the top 16 show yeah u can all come we are even going to invite more ppl to the offline events but we are not that bothered abour the rest so long as it looks good in the studio.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 3:18:00 AM(UTC)
Yeah, if PJ is right, what about the rest. In that case they just as well could have made it another Invitational for the top 16 or 32.

That being said, I'm neither for or against the rule change, although I still struggle to find a decent breaking point on the third corner uphill to the right. The rest I've luckily worked out to precision after about 30 laps.

Would love to hear your comments on cosmetic damage for racing too.

Edited by user Friday, April 28, 2017 3:20:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified


Better than always being right is knowing when to shut up
_______________________________________________________________________
FH, FM3, FM4, FM5, FH2, FM6, FM7
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#5 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 4:02:20 AM(UTC)
Sim damage stops ppl from being wreckless, often ppl implement it for realism but imo it's not realistic it's just a deterrent. A bit like assured mutual distrunction. Same with most of the settings there not realistic but some serve a purpose. For instance the racing like completely unrealistic but it stop ppl missing the breaking points and causing accidents. It's not like the tarmac changes colour like on p cars. Or the break marker boards stay where they are. Or a crack in the tar mac . This is what ppl do in real life look for something they can use. Fm has nothing like that it is not a realistic experince either way
Rank: On the Podium
#6 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 4:13:45 AM(UTC)
Don't forget rewind has to be off in rivals too. ;)
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 4:21:38 AM(UTC)
Does it state that as well in the forzaRC rules?

Edited by user Friday, April 28, 2017 4:22:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
#8 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 9:18:03 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
Does it state that as well in the forzaRC rules?


Yes. No clue on how this will be enforced. Maybe it's a hidden option on leaderboards?

1.4 Game settings (Rivals)
All rivals times must be set with the following maximum level of assists – For example, ABS could be turned off if drivers wish:

Suggested Line = Off
Braking = ABS On
Steering = Normal
Traction & Stability Control = TCS & STM On
Shifting = Automatic
Damage, Fuel & Tire Wear = Cosmetic
Rewind = Off
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#9 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 9:34:23 AM(UTC)
They gave you the list of tracks so if you aren't used to having the line off start practicing now. Yes you only have a few days for the first rivals at this point but the others are weeks away. I'm going to have trouble too, Practice those tracks every day with the line off and I think we will manage. Learn 1 at a time. They have asked us to use our brains and not be lazy, I don't think that is a bad thing. It's good for us to be challenged. It is not like I have any chance of being in the top anyway line off or on so it really does not matter. These are the tracks and cars, get cracking, I'm going too. Thanks for letting us know, I didn't realize that was how they set it up.

Catalunya National - 1982 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.3
Hockenheim National - 2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S
Road Atlanta Full -2012 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0
Brands Hatch GP - 2012 Porsche 911 GT2 RS
Bernese Alps Full - 2003 Porsche Carrera GT
Watkins Glen Full Alt - 2014 Porsche 918 Spyder
Sebring Full - 1998 #26 Porsche AG 911 GT1-98
Nürburgring GP -#19 Porsche Team 919 Hybrid

Edited by user Friday, April 28, 2017 9:55:22 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 10:01:38 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
Does it state that as well in the forzaRC rules?


Yes. No clue on how this will be enforced. Maybe it's a hidden option on leaderboards?

1.4 Game settings (Rivals)
All rivals times must be set with the following maximum level of assists – For example, ABS could be turned off if drivers wish:

Suggested Line = Off
Braking = ABS On
Steering = Normal
Traction & Stability Control = TCS & STM On
Shifting = Automatic
Damage, Fuel & Tire Wear = Cosmetic
Rewind = Off


I think it seems kind of backwards to take off the line but then allow players to run assists like stm, auto, and abs, all of which objectively hurt you in terms of speed. A person using those can massively unsettle a field of more experienced drivers during round 1. Considering that the rivals and the racing are separate, and there seems to be no baseline to determine how the lobbies are set up round 1, I can totally see an ABS player try to outbrake a player who doesn't have ABS and then cause a massive pileup on the first corner. Let's see how professional it looks then ;).

But TBH it just seems to be the case of the rules being written by a person that hasn't played much Forza (if at all), so inevitably rules like this are gonna exist. That just means that it's our job to bring those rules up for discussion and demand clarification.

Edited by user Friday, April 28, 2017 10:02:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
#11 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 10:18:23 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR M Rossi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
Does it state that as well in the forzaRC rules?


Yes. No clue on how this will be enforced. Maybe it's a hidden option on leaderboards?

1.4 Game settings (Rivals)
All rivals times must be set with the following maximum level of assists – For example, ABS could be turned off if drivers wish:

Suggested Line = Off
Braking = ABS On
Steering = Normal
Traction & Stability Control = TCS & STM On
Shifting = Automatic
Damage, Fuel & Tire Wear = Cosmetic
Rewind = Off


I think it seems kind of backwards to take off the line but then allow players to run assists like stm, auto, and abs, all of which objectively hurt you in terms of speed. A person using those can massively unsettle a field of more experienced drivers during round 1. Considering that the rivals and the racing are separate, and there seems to be no baseline to determine how the lobbies are set up round 1, I can totally see an ABS player try to outbrake a player who doesn't have ABS and then cause a massive pileup on the first corner. Let's see how professional it looks then ;).

But TBH it just seems to be the case of the rules being written by a person that hasn't played much Forza (if at all), so inevitably rules like this are gonna exist. That just means that it's our job to bring those rules up for discussion and demand clarification.


Yep. My fear isn't about me. I can adapt and drive pretty close to before without the line since I know most of these tracks well.

My fear is everyone else as you described with the ABS on example. The skill gap appears to be large and without any info regarding seeding week 1, it appears to be random.

So it possible week one to have one lobby with mostly good players and one with mostly average or even worse resulting in some players getting screwed out of earning points. Then with what looks like random grids, there will be massive wrecks due to skill gap.
Rank: On the Podium
#12 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 10:21:03 AM(UTC)
My hope is for week one that they use rivals points to determine seeding with tie breakers going to person with highest average placement.

Lobbies can then be easily formed based on this ranking so that one lobby isn't more one-sided than the other.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 1:44:42 PM(UTC)
My money is still on it being a typo. I don't have a problem with line off but disallowing line while permitting all other assists is absurd.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#14 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 2:00:42 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Zedeeyen Go to Quoted Post
My money is still on it being a typo. I don't have a problem with line off but disallowing line while permitting all other assists is absurd.

It's not a typo. It's discussed in the Week in Review:

"The other big change for the Elite Series is the introduction of assists limitations. As we evolve the Elite Series, it’s important that we raise the skill bar for our most competitive players. With that in mind, for both Rivals and Race events in Season 3, we will be forcing assisted line to “off”. This limitation will be enforced automatically by Forza Motorsport 6 in Elite Series Rivals events, and enforced by race hosts during the Race events."

The other assists all make you objectively slower, and so are self-penalizing, so I don't see any need to disallow them. Players who use them won't be competitive anyway.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Friday, April 28, 2017 8:05:43 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: flatdarkmars Go to Quoted Post
The other assists all make you objectively slower, and so are self-penalizing, so I don't see any need to disallow them. Players who use them won't be competitive anyway.

Not necessarily. Some of these cars don't use a clutch, and 1 or 2 of the race cars are a bit faster with TCS on.

Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
Basically rather than being "the most inclusive esports programe" this rule change makes it the most exclusive where only the very best will be able to enter with any sort of confidence.

Uh, isn't that the point of a competition? The only gripe I have with it is the rules changing so close to the start of the competition. I'm also worried about getting placed with plebs who forget to brake and total my car in a race, so I guess it'll be a test of a few skills you're not used to using all the time.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Saturday, April 29, 2017 2:50:48 AM(UTC)
Outside of private lobbies, I don't think I've ever seen more than half the field make it around T1 at Cat Nat, even with the line on.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Saturday, April 29, 2017 5:08:17 AM(UTC)
Aaaaand, even if everyone has learned the braking points in Rivals, the braking point on L1 isn't in the same place...
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#18 Posted : Saturday, April 29, 2017 7:40:15 AM(UTC)
Hopefully they have some form of seeding for the races to group skill level. The faster guys should qualify through Rivals just to be safe.

Edited by user Saturday, April 29, 2017 7:41:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified


Better than always being right is knowing when to shut up
_______________________________________________________________________
FH, FM3, FM4, FM5, FH2, FM6, FM7
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#19 Posted : Saturday, April 29, 2017 6:32:21 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Zedeeyen Go to Quoted Post
Outside of private lobbies, I don't think I've ever seen more than half the field make it around T1 at Cat Nat, even with the line on.


Maybe THATS the problem in public lobbies, everyone looking at the ground instead of the cars around them.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#20 Posted : Sunday, April 30, 2017 3:26:04 AM(UTC)
This will be very interesting going into T1 at Cata National with no line.

I urge everyone to re-evaluate your braking points when going from a standing start, as someone has mentioned, you will be braking at a different point then if you were on a hotlap. As for when you are on a hotlap, my tip would be to watch for the 5 flags on the right hand side after the pit lane exit. Braking when the 2nd one disappears from view (in chase cam near) is a safe braking point.

As for having suggested line turned off. It isn't called the elite championship for no reason. The best drivers should be able to adapt to whatever conditions are provided to them.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Sunday, April 30, 2017 4:46:05 AM(UTC)
I understand the intention behind not having the line on. However, Forza has reiterated time and time again, they want good close racing. I just feel as though having the line demotes this, especially in the earlier rounds of the races. There will be those few people who actually practice not having the line on and be fine. I am one of those that have been practicing my brake points and looking forward to racing. However, I fear for those not knowing where the braking point is and without the line, are lost. With no line on, sim damage and a random grid order, some very fast drivers could very well be taken out of the race in the first corner rather than displaying what skills they actually possess. I urge T10 and Gfinity to reevaluate this decision in an effort to promote better, closer and most importantly, cleaner racing.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Sunday, April 30, 2017 7:47:20 AM(UTC)
I guess they will just have to pratice
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#23 Posted : Sunday, April 30, 2017 12:38:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
I guess they will just have to pratice


Will they though? I don't think the good players should have to suffer because of another player's incompetence. They need to either A. Separate the good racers from the bad racers immediately, or B, just leave all assists unrestricted and then force the line off at offline events, which presumably only good drivers will be able to go to anyways. Heck, all the top drivers so far have either matched or beaten their PBs with the line off, so making inexperienced drivers a much bigger threat in the races by forcing them to go without a line is going to cause chaos. Kind of a big price to pay to pander to butthurt assist elitists IMO.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Monday, May 1, 2017 4:32:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
Does it state that as well in the forzaRC rules?


Yes. No clue on how this will be enforced. Maybe it's a hidden option on leaderboards?

1.4 Game settings (Rivals)
All rivals times must be set with the following maximum level of assists – For example, ABS could be turned off if drivers wish:

Suggested Line = Off
Braking = ABS On
Steering = Normal
Traction & Stability Control = TCS & STM On
Shifting = Automatic
Damage, Fuel & Tire Wear = Cosmetic
Rewind = Off


Maybe I am not reading this right, So these are the settings right. I see suggested line off. When you turn this off, you still have a braking line. Where does it say the Braking line will be turned off? I have never played this game with suggested line on, it has always been off.
KEEP THE RUBBER SIDE DOWN AND ON THE TRACK
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#25 Posted : Monday, May 1, 2017 6:25:31 AM(UTC)
Suggested line setting are either Braking or Full. Neither can be used. Braking line is only on corners, full is a line on the entire track. It won't make you awesome or anything. It is not necessarily the best or fastest line you can take, more of a reference. If you were to follow it exactly you will set a very poor time.

Edited by user Monday, May 1, 2017 6:29:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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