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Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#76 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:44:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatanFearsCHAD Go to Quoted Post
I'm only singling out FH3 because this is a Forza forum, and FH3 is the worst offender in the series. I just think the idea that devs need microtransactions to keep quality from falling is a load of **** , especially considering it feels like the loss of quality has spiked in the recent years that they've become more predominant (Not blaming them for that, I just don't think they're helping)
The recent success of indie games is why I think AAA developers eyes are getting so much bigger than their stomachs. What's the point of having the biggest map, and more cars if they can afford to make a game that I can run than more than an hour at a time? And then to turn on microtransactions for this wreck? Just feels like a slap in the face, but now I'm getting off topic


For all the praise indy devs get, they have certainly affected the AAA gaming devs in a bad way. Microtransactions on top of a full priced game, that also sells DLC is like dipping your hand into the cookie jar for a third time. Not against the rules, but pretty damn greedy.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#77 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:47:23 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SatanFearsCHAD Go to Quoted Post
I'm only singling out FH3 because this is a Forza forum, and FH3 is the worst offender in the series. I just think the idea that devs need microtransactions to keep quality from falling is a load of **** , especially considering it feels like the loss of quality has spiked in the recent years that they've become more predominant (Not blaming them for that, I just don't think they're helping)
The recent success of indie games is why I think AAA developers eyes are getting so much bigger than their stomachs. What's the point of having the biggest map, and more cars if they can afford to make a game that I can run than more than an hour at a time? And then to turn on microtransactions for this wreck? Just feels like a slap in the face, but now I'm getting off topic


Dont buy them, let some rich person with more money than sense give some revenue to the devs to stop them coming to your door with a collection tin.


But people still buy them though, leading to games being balanced around the microtransactions, in other words a lot more grindy. For those who can't afford the microtransactions, and don't have the time to put in to grind, that affects their enjoyment of the games in a completely negative way.
Rank: Racing Legend
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#78 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:49:33 AM(UTC)
Who here is struggling to get enough cars to progress in the game?

You want a grind go play something like Neverwinter.
I blame the ants.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#79 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:52:18 AM(UTC)
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#80 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:57:04 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SamHammer420 Go to Quoted Post


+1 for Jim, he cuts through the tirade of idiocy (really, what I put in there before was censored? Jeez, can't get any milder than that) in modern gaming.

Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Who here is struggling to get enough cars to progress in the game?

You want a grind go play something like Neverwinter.


Who said anything about struggling to get cars?

What I'm concerned about is the allure of tweaking the game ever so slightly to skew the economy towards microtransactions may become too much. Or even see future Forza games be balanced around them. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I do not trust developers when it comes to microtransactions.

Edited by user Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:58:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Legend
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#81 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 3:15:08 AM(UTC)
You guys do know that tokens were introduced back in forza 4 over 5 years ago now but yet it seems you have bought 5 more games since then...all with tokens in them
Yet all those games it was ridiculously easy to earn credits without wasting real money on tokens
Guess that also means each of those games were built around microtransactions as well
But here we are
Rank: Racing Permit
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#82 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 3:19:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
You guys do know that tokens were introduced back in forza 4 over 5 years ago now but yet it seems you have bought 5 more games since then...all with tokens in them
Yet all those games it was ridiculously easy to earn credits without wasting real money on tokens
Guess that also means each of those games were built around microtransactions as well
But here we are


And each game getting more bold about it than the last
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#83 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 5:04:26 AM(UTC)
I totally understand the reason why they added tokens into the game, at the end of the day Turn 10 created this game to make a profit as they are a business.
But im not gonna lie, you must be an absolute imbecile to purchase tokens.
All you gotta do is Race online and you have the money to buy whatever car or parts you want probably within an hour.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#84 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 7:06:33 AM(UTC)
So to buy the Ferrari 250 is 10,000 tokens. They cost £83.49, or in other words more than double the price I paid for the game and more than I've paid for real life, road legal cars. What exactly is micro" about £83 and how can anyone justify them asking us to pay that for something that is already in the game?
Rank: Moderator
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#85 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 7:45:13 AM(UTC)
The price of a AAA console title has remained constant for ten years now. That despite every single associated cost in producing one of those titles increasing over and over for those ten years. The studios have grown in size and complexity, employing ever more specialists, more contractors, more assets, more licensing, more just about everything to produce the games you love, at the price point gamers such as yourselves demand. If they cannot feasibly raise the cost of the base game because of consumer pushback, then they must seek out additional revenue streams and enhancements. Enter DLC, paid expansions, and microtransactions. This is the economic reality that game producers and the gamers themselves have both helped shape. Would many of us wish for a different reality? Certainly, but this is the one we helped shape through our own practices and those of our fellow gamers.

Gamers get a quality game with many hours worth of entertainment for the base sticker price. Additional content through DLC and expansions are not in any way required to enjoy that base purchase but are available for those that are interested in expanding what they purchased originally. Would many of us prefer that all that expanded content be made available to us for no additional cost? Certainly, but that's simply not tenable with the current business model. Tilt against this windmill all you wish but until the economic reality changes, this business model is here to stay.

Microtransactions/tokens in no way impact those who chose to not take advantage of them. They do not provide a means of 'pay to win' but offer an alternate means of acquiring assets in game for those willing to part with real money instead of time and effort. If customers are willing to put money on the table for tokens then the developer would be foolish to leave it there. No asset in the game is locked behind a paywall that can only be unlocked with tokens. You can play the game (a purpose for which you presumably primarily acquired it for), enjoy it for what it is, and through natural progression acquire the credits you can spend as you wish in lieu of tokens. Or you can take a shortcut by opening your wallet. The choice is entirely yours and in no way thrust upon you. Don't blame bakeries for the existence of donuts if you have poor impulse control and lack fiscal restraint.

This argument, in all its various forms, crops up every few months and unfortunately, will continue to do so as will the current business model we have all helped create.

✔ Verified Moderator


Rank: Racing Legend
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#86 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 8:06:37 AM(UTC)
Tokens have come back because people have bought them. No one can believe for a second with logical thinking that if no one bought tokens, Turn 10 or any developer would keep adding them to the games.

Just hide them if you don't like them. Apparently people do like them enough to have them return again.
Pay It Forward
This posting is provided as is; with no warranties, and confers no rights.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#87 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 8:36:23 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
The price of a AAA console title has remained constant for ten years now. That despite every single associated cost in producing one of those titles increasing over and over for those ten years. The studios have grown in size and complexity, employing ever more specialists, more contractors, more assets, more licensing, more just about everything to produce the games you love, at the price point gamers such as yourselves demand. If they cannot feasibly raise the cost of the base game because of consumer pushback, then they must seek out additional revenue streams and enhancements. Enter DLC, paid expansions, and microtransactions. This is the economic reality that game producers and the gamers themselves have both helped shape. Would many of us wish for a different reality? Certainly, but this is the one we helped shape through our own practices and those of our fellow gamers.

Gamers get a quality game with many hours worth of entertainment for the base sticker price. Additional content through DLC and expansions are not in any way required to enjoy that base purchase but are available for those that are interested in expanding what they purchased originally. Would many of us prefer that all that expanded content be made available to us for no additional cost? Certainly, but that's simply not tenable with the current business model. Tilt against this windmill all you wish but until the economic reality changes, this business model is here to stay.

Microtransactions/tokens in no way impact those who chose to not take advantage of them. They do not provide a means of 'pay to win' but offer an alternate means of acquiring assets in game for those willing to part with real money instead of time and effort. If customers are willing to put money on the table for tokens then the developer would be foolish to leave it there. No asset in the game is locked behind a paywall that can only be unlocked with tokens. You can play the game (a purpose for which you presumably primarily acquired it for), enjoy it for what it is, and through natural progression acquire the credits you can spend as you wish in lieu of tokens. Or you can take a shortcut by opening your wallet. The choice is entirely yours and in no way thrust upon you. Don't blame bakeries for the existence of donuts if you have poor impulse control and lack fiscal restraint.

This argument, in all its various forms, crops up every few months and unfortunately, will continue to do so as will the current business model we have all helped create.



Pretty much somes up my view on them... At the end of the day you still have to be able to "drive" and spending money on tokens might get you the tools to do the job done quicker but it wont give you the experience to use them ....

This is my first Forza title (I don't count Apex which I mistakenly assumed would serve as a tech demo to see if a PC could play FH3) as of today I have driven 33,832 miles in 318 hours and earned 284.6M CR and over 100M XP... I did the hours and hours of grinding to get the Credits to buy every car in "Black Friday" and XP to reach Level 1000 before the release of Blizzard Mountain...

As long as micro payments aren't needed to get hold of additional content which cant be bought with credit earned by playing the game I don't see a problem...

As with all things YMMV...
It's not a Question of whether the Glass is 1/2 Full or 1/2 Empty - A man dying of thirst would be happy to get his hands on either...

Rank: Moderator
 8 users liked this post.
#88 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 8:43:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatanFearsCHAD Go to Quoted Post
What makes Max right? Because the developers said it, it has to be true? Of course they're not going to tell you the FACT that microtransactions affect the game's normal economy, because that would be a confession.
...
I can't believe some people would even consider defending that, other than Max and the other mods, since they're running the official Forza forum, I have to assume they're on their payroll until proven otherwise, so it'd be within the mods best interest to make you believe otherwise.



ENOUGH. We take people at their word because they are professionals, because this is their forum, and because in a civilized community we don't go throwing around baseless accusations of lying or corruption.


Anyone who has made their point on this issue has already made it heard well enough. Warning:

Originally Posted by: LV T10 Go to Quoted Post
Forza Motorsport Forums Terms of Use

Your use of these forums are subject to the Xbox.com Service Agreement, the Xbox Live Terms of Use, and the Xbox Live Code of Conduct in addition to the following:

• Use your better judgment when posting things. If you have to start your post with “I’m not trying to offend anyone but”, take a second look at the post before deciding if it’s needed to get your point across.
...
• Try to keep it positive. Do not have a large percentage of your posts that are only negative rants. This is a form of trolling that only inflames the community and incites more flaming and abusive posts.
...



Originally Posted by: LV T10 Go to Quoted Post
Be sure to read all rules carefully. Each rule is strictly enforced to ensure the well-being of the community. By logging into Forzamotorsport.net's forums, you agree to abide by these terms, conditions, and guidelines.
...

II. Expected Behavior

Forzamotorsport.net is a place to hold civil discussions about the Forza Motorsport franchise, racing games, the Xbox 360 or Xbox One platform, real-world cars, the automotive industry, and the world of racing.

Do not impersonate, harass, or defame Turn 10, staff members, or moderators.

Do not defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten, or otherwise violate the legal rights of others.

...
_


Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#89 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 8:39:36 PM(UTC)
Dear Mods, I really do feel sorry for you guys for all the abusive posts you get, it's a shame that some people would resort to trolling and defamation to make their point.
I think this thread should be locked now, it has served its purpose.

Edited by user Wednesday, December 21, 2016 9:56:41 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of absolute speed
Rank: Moderator
 7 users liked this post.
#90 Posted : Wednesday, December 21, 2016 2:26:21 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Hurricane221798 Go to Quoted Post
Dear Mods, I really do feel sorry for you guys for all the abusive posts you get, it's a shame that some people would resort to trolling and defamation to make their point.
I think this thread should be locked now, it has served its purpose.


We deserve far better trolls, these new ones are really no challenge at all.

Won't someone think of the mods?

Locking thread per the OP's request.

✔ Verified Moderator


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