4 Pages1234PrevNext
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#51 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2016 4:05:47 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DAT trashman Go to Quoted Post
IMHO it's only grinding if you don't enjoy playing the game not because you're going back and doing things you've already done. Am I grinding in FM6 because I've already raced every track in the game but yet still continue to race? They put them in for people to use if they wanted and not use them if they don't want to it is in no way centered or balanced towards micros.

Bottom line is You are assuming they will get worse and balance the game towards micros even though they've had them for over 5 years and nothing has changed. I felt like credits came so fast in FM6 it actually discouraged buying tokens with real money.

The sky is NOT falling.


Well said, DAT trashman. I fully agree.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of absolute speed
Rank: Racing Legend
 1 user liked this post.
#52 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2016 4:16:33 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatanFearsCHAD Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
[Mod Edit - please don't quote walls of text- MM]
Bottom line is you dont have to use tokens
It's your CHOICE ..it's an option
No one forces you to at all


You seem to keep missing a number of key points, you frequently point out that people can enjoy the game however they want, then immediately criticize them if that enjoyment comes from collecting cars, just because you don't need to collect cars to get your full enjoyment, doesn't mean others shouldn't. you keep basing what other people should want based on what you want, which is frankly stupid.

And YES the game is balanced around the microtransactions whether you like to admit it or not, games have gotten noticeably more stingy since they've become popular, and DAT trashman, you're being naive if you think it's not going to get worse, because it already has. FM6 is only easy to get credits in because they got called out on it earlier with either FM5, or FM6 (I can't remember witch) making the grind harder. Why people are so eager to promote companies trying to weasel us out of more money is beyond me. At this rate within 10 years every game is going to be a F2P demo with overpriced microtransactions for every piece of in game content.
Call me paranoid if you want, but I kinda like not spending $200+ CAD for all of a game's content, especially to only have that content be a broken mess


I'm not criticizing anyone at all
If people want to waste their real money on buying cars when they don't really need to that's their choice but no one is forcing them to do it
If that's how they want to enjoy the game that's what they are gonna do and nobody can stop them
Why do people who are obviously not going to buy tokens complain about them in the first place
It's an option for those that want to
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#53 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2016 4:29:15 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SatanFearsCHAD Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
[Mod Edit - please don't quote walls of text- MM]
Bottom line is you dont have to use tokens
It's your CHOICE ..it's an option
No one forces you to at all


You seem to keep missing a number of key points, you frequently point out that people can enjoy the game however they want, then immediately criticize them if that enjoyment comes from collecting cars, just because you don't need to collect cars to get your full enjoyment, doesn't mean others shouldn't. you keep basing what other people should want based on what you want, which is frankly stupid.

And YES the game is balanced around the microtransactions whether you like to admit it or not, games have gotten noticeably more stingy since they've become popular, and DAT trashman, you're being naive if you think it's not going to get worse, because it already has. FM6 is only easy to get credits in because they got called out on it earlier with either FM5, or FM6 (I can't remember witch) making the grind harder. Why people are so eager to promote companies trying to weasel us out of more money is beyond me. At this rate within 10 years every game is going to be a F2P demo with overpriced microtransactions for every piece of in game content.
Call me paranoid if you want, but I kinda like not spending $200+ CAD for all of a game's content, especially to only have that content be a broken mess


I'm not criticizing anyone at all
If people want to waste their real money on buying cars when they don't really need to that's their choice but no one is forcing them to do it
If that's how they want to enjoy the game that's what they are gonna do and nobody can stop them
Why do people who are obviously not going to buy tokens complain about them in the first place
It's an option for those that want to


Actually, yes you do. Everytime someone complains about unicorn cars because they spoil their enjoyment of the game (collecting cars), you instantly jump on them, calling them entitled, and claiming they're whinging about nothing. If that's not criticising them, then I don't know what is.


And as far as people who don't buy tokens complaining about them. Why the hell shouldn't we complain about microtransactions? Microtransactions affect everybody.
People don't want to have to spend money on microtransactions, that's why they complain about them.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#54 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2016 4:51:12 PM(UTC)
Let me help you here: SOME "people don't want to spend money on micro transactions."

Edited by user Monday, December 19, 2016 4:56:20 PM(UTC)  | Reason: spelling issues

Rank: Racing Legend
 2 users liked this post.
#55 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2016 4:54:02 PM(UTC)
Also no one HAS to spend on tokens or microtransactions
It's a choice
It's in every game now and wont go away
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#56 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2016 5:02:57 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Also no one HAS to spend on tokens or microtransactions
It's a choice
It's in every game now and wont go away


And this is why, because people like you will defend those companies adding them.
Rank: Racing Legend
 3 users liked this post.
#57 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2016 5:22:17 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TransAmConnor Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Also no one HAS to spend on tokens or microtransactions
It's a choice
It's in every game now and wont go away


And this is why, because people like you will defend those companies adding them.


Not defending them either
It's part of life now
Dont agree with it either
It doesnt affect me either way because i wont spend real money on those things that can be earnt be playing the game
I'm done..pointless to go on

Edited by user Monday, December 19, 2016 5:23:47 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Moderator
 5 users liked this post.
#58 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2016 5:39:59 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TransAmConnor Go to Quoted Post
Why the hell shouldn't we complain about microtransactions? Microtransactions affect everybody.
People don't want to have to spend money on microtransactions, that's why they complain about them.


If would be nice if those people who don't want to have to spend money on microtransactions took their complaints to a forum where that's relevant. It's not relevant here because microtransactions don't affect anybody here. The game wasn't designed to need them, they're not required, and they can be disabled. The complaints about a problem that doesn't exist are just undue negativity, especially since the developers have clearly already made the effort to take this view into account.

Edited by user Monday, December 19, 2016 5:41:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#59 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2016 6:25:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TransAmConnor Go to Quoted Post
Why the hell shouldn't we complain about microtransactions? Microtransactions affect everybody.
People don't want to have to spend money on microtransactions, that's why they complain about them.


If would be nice if those people who don't want to have to spend money on microtransactions took their complaints to a forum where that's relevant. It's not relevant here because microtransactions don't affect anybody here. The game wasn't designed to need them, they're not required, and they can be disabled. The complaints about a problem that doesn't exist are just undue negativity, especially since the developers have clearly already made the effort to take this view into account.


Well I'm sorry, but I'm highly mistrusting of microtransactions across the whole industry, no matter how innocent they may seem.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#60 Posted : Monday, December 19, 2016 6:32:12 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post


If would be nice if those people who don't want to have to spend money on microtransactions took their complaints to a forum where that's relevant. It's not relevant here because microtransactions don't affect anybody here. The game wasn't designed to need them, they're not required, and they can be disabled. The complaints about a problem that doesn't exist are just undue negativity, especially since the developers have clearly already made the effort to take this view into account.


Max is absolutely right. If you don't want to spend money on microtransactions, then disable them, but complaining about something that doesn't have to affect you creates unnecessary negativity that has no place in these forums. And consider this: Turn 10 is a business, and so they must make money so that they can pay their employees, develop new games/content, pay for licenses, etc. If microtransactions didn't exist at all, they would have to charge more upfront for games and/or DLC.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of absolute speed
Rank: Racing Permit
 3 users liked this post.
#61 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:24:30 AM(UTC)
What makes Max right? Because the developers said it, it has to be true? Of course they're not going to tell you the FACT that microtransactions affect the game's normal economy, because that would be a confession.
Does anyone actually think they'd introduce a concept like microtransactions without taking the time to pressure as many people as possible into buying them? You are not talking about gamers, you are not talking about generous people, you are talking about business people. Their job isn't to give you the product you want at a reasonable price. Their job, whether you want to admit or believe it or not, is to try to find a way to milk as much money out as many people as possible, while giving them as little in return as possible. They don't care about the consumers, they care about the consumer's money.

I can't believe some people would even consider defending that, other than Max and the other mods, since they're running the official Forza forum, I have to assume they're on their payroll until proven otherwise, so it'd be within the mods best interest to make you believe otherwise.

And finally, quit pretending that turning off your ability to see the tokens means that they don't affect you, that's like saying what you can't see can't hurt you

Edited by user Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:29:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Fixing my wall of text

Rank: Racing Legend
 2 users liked this post.
#62 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:42:10 AM(UTC)
Wont affect me or anyone that has disabled them
Cant and wont buy them so wont even notice they exist

This thread is the only way I'll know about them

Edited by user Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:49:24 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#63 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:51:39 AM(UTC)
The fact that it takes longer to earn stuff in games with microtransactions, than previous games in the same series which didn't have microtransactions is a pretty telltale sign that they're affecting me. Turning a blind eye to a problem doesn't make the problem stop existing
Rank: Driver's Permit
 3 users liked this post.
#64 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 12:54:23 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
<snip>The game wasn't designed to need them, they're not required, and they can be disabled. The complaints about a problem that doesn't exist are just undue negativity, especially since the developers have clearly already made the effort to take this view into account.


If they're in the game then the game absolutely was designed around them. It's naive to think that the people whose idea it was to include microtransactions in a game were doing it just to provide an option for those who want it.
People are complaining because the trend of putting microtransactions in full price games is reflective of the trend of lowering the quality of games in order to get people to spend more money on them instead of just making games that are worth the money in the first place.
The more people accept it and defend the decision to include them the more we'll find our games are balanced around them.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 4 users liked this post.
#65 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 1:15:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatanFearsCHAD Go to Quoted Post
What makes Max right? Because the developers said it, it has to be true? Of course they're not going to tell you the FACT that microtransactions affect the game's normal economy, because that would be a confession.
Does anyone actually think they'd introduce a concept like microtransactions without taking the time to pressure as many people as possible into buying them? You are not talking about gamers, you are not talking about generous people, you are talking about business people. Their job isn't to give you the product you want at a reasonable price. Their job, whether you want to admit or believe it or not, is to try to find a way to milk as much money out as many people as possible, while giving them as little in return as possible. They don't care about the consumers, they care about the consumer's money.

I can't believe some people would even consider defending that, other than Max and the other mods, since they're running the official Forza forum, I have to assume they're on their payroll until proven otherwise, so it'd be within the mods best interest to make you believe otherwise.

And finally, quit pretending that turning off your ability to see the tokens means that they don't affect you, that's like saying what you can't see can't hurt you


Everything you just posted is completely false. There is NO evidence of FH3's economy being tweaked to encourage token purchases, and it is very much playable without buying tokens. And your claim that me, talby and others are defending microtransactions is absolute rubbish. Someone posted in the FH3 Features Wish List thread that they wanted to buy cars with tokens, so there are players who want the option to use tokens instead, this was also true in FM6 which didn't have tokens at first, but were later added after some players demanded the ability to use tokens. I have never bought tokens (and never will) so don't blame me for encouraging T10/PG to include microtransactions.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of absolute speed
Rank: Racing Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#66 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 1:25:16 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SamHammer420 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
<snip>The game wasn't designed to need them, they're not required, and they can be disabled. The complaints about a problem that doesn't exist are just undue negativity, especially since the developers have clearly already made the effort to take this view into account.


If they're in the game then the game absolutely was designed around them. It's naive to think that the people whose idea it was to include microtransactions in a game were doing it just to provide an option for those who want it.
People are complaining because the trend of putting microtransactions in full price games is reflective of the trend of lowering the quality of games in order to get people to spend more money on them instead of just making games that are worth the money in the first place.
The more people accept it and defend the decision to include them the more we'll find our games are balanced around them.



Exactly. The game was obviously designed around them, and as I've said before the reason they weren't in there at launch was likely so it wouldn't be mentioned in reviews. They aren't trying to make our lives easier, if they wanted to do that they'd put in a cheat code to get more credits, it's because they want to squeeze more money from us
Rank: Racing Legend
 1 user liked this post.
#67 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 1:31:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NegativeCreep08 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SamHammer420 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
<snip>The game wasn't designed to need them, they're not required, and they can be disabled. The complaints about a problem that doesn't exist are just undue negativity, especially since the developers have clearly already made the effort to take this view into account.


If they're in the game then the game absolutely was designed around them. It's naive to think that the people whose idea it was to include microtransactions in a game were doing it just to provide an option for those who want it.
People are complaining because the trend of putting microtransactions in full price games is reflective of the trend of lowering the quality of games in order to get people to spend more money on them instead of just making games that are worth the money in the first place.
The more people accept it and defend the decision to include them the more we'll find our games are balanced around them.



Exactly. The game was obviously designed around them, and as I've said before the reason they weren't in there at launch was likely so it wouldn't be mentioned in reviews. They aren't trying to make our lives easier, if they wanted to do that they'd put in a cheat code to get more credits, it's because they want to squeeze more money from us


don't buy them then you don't have an issue, problem solved, and they don't get any extra money from you

there's been tokens since forza 4 , still not forced or required to buy them

Edited by user Tuesday, December 20, 2016 1:34:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Legend
 6 users liked this post.
#68 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 1:58:22 AM(UTC)
They just had a 30% off the whole autoshow sale. Whilst i understand the concerns i think at this point they are unfounded.

Sure Turn 10 are out to make a profit, no question.

I have spoken to an MMO dev about this issue. They described it as some people are time poor but money rich and some are time rich and money poor. Those have an easy choice. One buys tokens because it suits them. The other plays the game a lot and turns tokens off.

The potential problem is for the time poor and money poor. Hopefully they have the willpower to make sound choices.

Why prevent the money rich supporting the devs which may actually keep the cost down for the rest of us?
I blame the ants.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#69 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:00:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SamHammer420 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
<snip>The game wasn't designed to need them, they're not required, and they can be disabled. The complaints about a problem that doesn't exist are just undue negativity, especially since the developers have clearly already made the effort to take this view into account.



People are complaining because the trend of putting microtransactions in full price games is reflective of the trend of lowering the quality of games in order to get people to spend more money on them instead of just making games that are worth the money in the first place.
The more people accept it and defend the decision to include them the more we'll find our games are balanced around them.


This is exactly my point. On top of everything else (game, DLC, all the extra DLC that isn't included in the passes), adding in microtransactions to a full priced game is scummy business practice.

The bottom sentence is what I've been trying to outline in my posts, the more you people just accept it, the more devs will add them, and the more likely games (full price games) will be balanced around them.
Rank: Racing Legend
 5 users liked this post.
#70 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:07:45 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TransAmConnor Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SamHammer420 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
<snip>The game wasn't designed to need them, they're not required, and they can be disabled. The complaints about a problem that doesn't exist are just undue negativity, especially since the developers have clearly already made the effort to take this view into account.



People are complaining because the trend of putting microtransactions in full price games is reflective of the trend of lowering the quality of games in order to get people to spend more money on them instead of just making games that are worth the money in the first place.
The more people accept it and defend the decision to include them the more we'll find our games are balanced around them.


This is exactly my point. On top of everything else (game, DLC, all the extra DLC that isn't included in the passes), adding in microtransactions to a full priced game is scummy business practice.

The bottom sentence is what I've been trying to outline in my posts, the more you people just accept it, the more devs will add them, and the more likely games (full price games) will be balanced around them.


Without the devs getting that revenue games will get worse anyway.
I blame the ants.
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#71 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:17:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Hurricane221798 Go to Quoted Post
Everything you just posted is completely false. There is NO evidence of FH3's economy being tweaked to encourage token purchases, and it is very much playable without buying tokens. And your claim that me, talby and others are defending microtransactions is absolute rubbish. Someone posted in the FH3 Features Wish List thread that they wanted to buy cars with tokens, so there are players who want the option to use tokens instead, this was also true in FM6 which didn't have tokens at first, but were later added after some players demanded the ability to use tokens. I have never bought tokens (and never will) so don't blame me for encouraging T10/PG to include microtransactions.


AGAIN, just because there's no evidence of something, does not mean it did not happen. People asking for the ability to buy tokens would obviously stem from the fact that they feel as though they're not earning credits at a satisfactory rate for them. Now I don't know about you, but I have seen A LOT more people simply asking for the game to reward more credits than I have seen people specifically asking to buy tokens instead. Let's not pretend that the token system is just something they randomly decided to flick on 3 months after launch, they knew they were going to do it from what I would assume would be quite early in development. Now if you're a businessman looking to make as much money as possible, are you not going to try to pressure more people into spending that money? As a result the grind in games is getting noticeably longer and harder.
The thing is that game developers almost never just add in microtransactions without trying to maximize the likelihood of somebody using them, and like TransAmConner said, just accepting that is only going to make it worse.

And SatNiteEduardo, how could that make games get worse? Base prices are skyrocketing while quality continues to fall. To simply get all the content this game can offer before microtransactions currently sits at almost $200 CAD, and will likely pass the 200 mark as there's almost guaranteed to be more DLC after that Car and Expansion pass, so tell me again that the developers need the revenue of microtransactions to keep quality from falling, as FH3 is without a doubt the lowest quality game in the series.

Rank: Racing Legend
 4 users liked this post.
#72 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:27:20 AM(UTC)
Revenue equals ability to cover costs. Higher revenue equals ability to spend more making a quality game.

Quality across the whole industry is falling. Now i am sure some will mention some awesome quality games but overall the quality is falling. I dont believe it is accurate to single out FH3.

Should they get better at quality control. Absolutely. No question.

What section gets cut first if money is tight?
I blame the ants.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#73 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:31:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Revenue equals ability to cover costs. Higher revenue equals ability to spend more making a quality game.

Quality across the whole industry is falling. Now i am sure some will mention some awesome quality games but overall the quality is falling. I dont believe it is accurate to single out FH3.

Should they get better at quality control. Absolutely. No question.

What section gets cut first if money is tight?


I highly doubt money is tight with all the DLC they push out for every game.
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#74 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:36:30 AM(UTC)
I'm only singling out FH3 because this is a Forza forum, and FH3 is the worst offender in the series. I just think the idea that devs need microtransactions to keep quality from falling is a load of **** , especially considering it feels like the loss of quality has spiked in the recent years that they've become more predominant (Not blaming them for that, I just don't think they're helping)
The recent success of indie games is why I think AAA developers eyes are getting so much bigger than their stomachs. What's the point of having the biggest map, and more cars if they can afford to make a game that I can run than more than an hour at a time? And then to turn on microtransactions for this wreck? Just feels like a slap in the face, but now I'm getting off topic
Rank: Racing Legend
 7 users liked this post.
#75 Posted : Tuesday, December 20, 2016 2:43:08 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatanFearsCHAD Go to Quoted Post
I'm only singling out FH3 because this is a Forza forum, and FH3 is the worst offender in the series. I just think the idea that devs need microtransactions to keep quality from falling is a load of **** , especially considering it feels like the loss of quality has spiked in the recent years that they've become more predominant (Not blaming them for that, I just don't think they're helping)
The recent success of indie games is why I think AAA developers eyes are getting so much bigger than their stomachs. What's the point of having the biggest map, and more cars if they can afford to make a game that I can run than more than an hour at a time? And then to turn on microtransactions for this wreck? Just feels like a slap in the face, but now I'm getting off topic


Dont buy them, let some rich person with more money than sense give some revenue to the devs to stop them coming to your door with a collection tin.
I blame the ants.
4 Pages1234PrevNext

Notification

Icon
Error