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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#51 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2016 8:47:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ColinLam Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xCaesars Wrathx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clark GriswoId Go to Quoted Post
All,

Seems my settings were changed....

now anyone with link can open and use this sheet. My setting have changed so editors can not change these settings.

https://goo.gl/W5MtB1


Potential issue!? I've just thought, as I was just on your sheet, and saw the values change without my input. Google sheets online, is it essentially a LIVE webpage? So others can be on the page at the same time, changing values I put into the sheet for example!?
Thought it may be of use to advise people to click on FILE then DOWNLOAD


yes it is a LIVE if everyone is using the "cloud" version and you are correct we should first download then use the file :)


Thanks Colin I will add a note here on this post 😊
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#52 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2016 8:56:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: akaBrucee Go to Quoted Post
Great post man. Hope a mod stickies this honestly. Also, a few suggestions: I think it'll be great to use a new page for each broad category, just to improve organisation. Furthmore, maybe use a weight distribution of something other than 50/50 because the examples are very confusing.


Hey Bruce thanks for the feedback, to make those changes I would have to take it offline to do so, which would reset download and view numbers. It would be handy if I could edit there on Docs.com.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#53 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2016 8:58:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clark GriswoId Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xCaesars Wrathx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clark GriswoId Go to Quoted Post
All,

Seems my settings were changed....

now anyone with link can open and use this sheet. My setting have changed so editors can not change these settings.

https://goo.gl/W5MtB1


Potential issue!? I've just thought, as I was just on your sheet, and saw the values change without my input. Google sheets online, is it essentially a LIVE webpage? So others can be on the page at the same time, changing values I put into the sheet for example!?
Thought it may be of use to advise people to click on FILE then DOWNLOAD



Yes, you can use online or download for use. Link stays the same, the settings were changed so no one had access- i had to set it so anyone editing can not change the sharing settings, etc.

All is well, make sure you guys actually brake for the first corner, and happy motoring


Awesome nice job, and yes folks remember to break in the first corner aha
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#54 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2016 9:42:28 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: McFuu Go to Quoted Post
Caster angles, how did you come to the conclusion to run them that high?

The way caster works is creating an angle the front suspension travels up into the wheel well. It's beneficial that as the tires turn, the outside wheel gains a bit of negative camber. Allowing you to run less negative camber. If you look at street cars you can see the rear almost always have more negative camber, but turn the wheels a bit and the fronts will quickly eclipse the rear.

Problem comes with excessive caster will lean the tire over too much and decrease contact patch. Which leads to understeer in tighter corners, such as hairpins. Not too mention it's harder to turn in, but this is a mechanical effect that can effect people using ffb wheels, I don't think the effect presents itself to controller players.

Generally I run between 4.5 and 6.0. I may go above 6 if the car is heavy and has down force. I may slip below 4.5, usually on very light, little down force cars like old open wheel racers.

I'm just curious how you arrived at your high caster?


Yeah sure so the stuff you explain is real world stuff right!?, having knowledge of real world is of course useful in Forza but is it important to remember that Forza is not 100% real world, it has a touch of arcade, more like 70/30 or 80/20 at best.
So getting towards your answer now, the guide its self is based off knowledge gained from in game experience stretching back to FM2.
The Camber is somthing that can be heavily manipulated, particularly on the Motorsport side, as it allows you to throw the car into corners more aggressively and with greater speed, and yes probably does suit the controller more. The vast majority of players will be on controller.
Also the scaling system I have, more negative camber the higher the class, is because the faster the car the more weight is being transferred to the outside. Also to point out multiplayer on FM6 etc does not use sim tyre wear and damage etc, so again this leads to the use of thise figures also. The same goes for the caster also, apologies for the essay lol but yeah the guide is made to be user friendly and suited more for a beginner to ametuer level. The goal really is to get people into to tuning there own stuff easy and simply, then the more confident they get and the more they learn they will start developing a way of tuning that best suits them.
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#55 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2016 10:40:11 AM(UTC)
Just some notes from my read-through.

Quote:
When you have your ARB's set but still find them to soft or stiff dependent on your driving style you can try the following settings that I have developed:

Soft = -5 F+R ARB
Supersoft = -10 F+R ARB
Stiff = +5 F+R ARB
Superstiff = +10 F+R ARB

By maintaining the difference between the front and rear from your original calculation, you maintain the balance of the car.


That will only maintain the balance if your car is 50/50 weight. If it is any other number, simply adding a flat number to both will offset the balance.

Quote:
When tuning the Pressure there a few different ideas out there but the one setting I use on all cars is full on 200% pressure this may seem extreme but believe me it works, it allows you to very lightly touch the trigger whilst being able to slow the car quickly.


I don't understand this at all. Setting pressure to 200% doesn't make your brakes twice as good, it just means your tires will lock up twice as fast.

Quote:
Finally, we get to differential, it controls how much power is transferred to the wheels (acceleration) and how much it slows the car by. A NOOB forgive the term would go 100 and 0, this is bad because all that power being sent to the wheels is only going to make the wheel’s spin and spin, so the tyres will not be biting the track so your losing time. If your decel is too low it can cause your car lock the axles.


Thats exactly opposite of how it works. The higher the percentage the more locked your axle is. 100% diff is completely locked, 0% diff is completely open.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#56 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:24:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ohzo Go to Quoted Post
Just some notes from my read-through.

Quote:
When you have your ARB's set but still find them to soft or stiff dependent on your driving style you can try the following settings that I have developed:

Soft = -5 F+R ARB
Supersoft = -10 F+R ARB
Stiff = +5 F+R ARB
Superstiff = +10 F+R ARB

By maintaining the difference between the front and rear from your original calculation, you maintain the balance of the car.


That will only maintain the balance if your car is 50/50 weight. If it is any other number, simply adding a flat number to both will offset the balance.

Quote:
When tuning the Pressure there a few different ideas out there but the one setting I use on all cars is full on 200% pressure this may seem extreme but believe me it works, it allows you to very lightly touch the trigger whilst being able to slow the car quickly.


I don't understand this at all. Setting pressure to 200% doesn't make your brakes twice as good, it just means your tires will lock up twice as fast.

Quote:
Finally, we get to differential, it controls how much power is transferred to the wheels (acceleration) and how much it slows the car by. A NOOB forgive the term would go 100 and 0, this is bad because all that power being sent to the wheels is only going to make the wheel’s spin and spin, so the tyres will not be biting the track so your losing time. If your decel is too low it can cause your car lock the axles.


Thats exactly opposite of how it works. The higher the percentage the more locked your axle is. 100% diff is completely locked, 0% diff is completely open.


Thanks for the comment Ohzo and taking the time to read the guide, firstly let it be known, since I seem to be having to explain a lot of things atm lol, the guide as stated is not the definitive or normal way I guess in which to tune from, it is purely from what I have picked up over the years just playing the Forza games developing my own way of doing things. I am not coming at this from a real world perspective, so yes it doe's appear unorthodox.
Ok that being said, I hear what saying with the ARB's, it would be logical that you would upset the balance from doing that, but you don't. It doesn't have to be just 50/50 either, if say 40/60 on FM6 it would look like this 24 on the front 16 on the rear. The difference is 8, so if I want it softer I take away 5 front and rear maintaining that difference of 8, so 19 front 11 rear. It makes the car feel more responsive and still feels balanced.
With the breaking, you are assuming that I mean "you break twice as good", those are not my words. I feel you misunderstand this point. many people have different preferences here, this is simply mine, I do so without locking up either, this is a simple matter of learning the lock up point on the trigger, I do this on nearly all my cars but some here and there need a different setup. Once mastered your fine.
On your last point I thinking the part you quoted in bold in regards to decel!? Forgive me, LOW is a typo it should be HIGH, I have dyslexia, which actually effects a lot of day to day stuff and I can get things the wrong way round or back to front from time to time. Like THE BLUE IS SKY or what ever you know words dance around for me. My spelling may be good lol buts that down to auto correct lol best thing since sliced bread aha, but my grammer is terrible.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#57 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2016 1:44:45 PM(UTC)
Also Ohzo this sets up a base only from which to work, please feel free to try it.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#58 Posted : Friday, October 7, 2016 3:19:59 AM(UTC)
Hey CW, many people have giving a conversion to metric and I've simplified it down so it can be done quite easily on a simple calculator or in your head.

Formula to get spring stiffness is: Weight (kg) x WeightDistribution (0.xx) / 5. On a calculator, I like Weight (kg) / 5 x WeightDistribution (0.xx).
This is slightly off as the final constant is 0.193, but I have rounded it to 0.2 which is 1/5. Thus the /5.

Eg. 1600 kg car, 54% front distribution. The front spring stiffness will be: 1600 x 0.54 / 5 = 172.8 KgF/mm for front.
1600 x 0.46 / 5 = 147.2 KgF/mm for rear.

Hopefully you can add this in your original post or something to help the metric folks.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#59 Posted : Friday, October 7, 2016 8:04:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: akaBrucee Go to Quoted Post
Hey CW, many people have giving a conversion to metric and I've simplified it down so it can be done quite easily on a simple calculator or in your head.

Formula to get spring stiffness is: Weight (kg) x WeightDistribution (0.xx) / 5. On a calculator, I like Weight (kg) / 5 x WeightDistribution (0.xx).
This is slightly off as the final constant is 0.193, but I have rounded it to 0.2 which is 1/5. Thus the /5.

Eg. 1600 kg car, 54% front distribution. The front spring stiffness will be: 1600 x 0.54 / 5 = 172.8 KgF/mm for front.
1600 x 0.46 / 5 = 147.2 KgF/mm for rear.

Hopefully you can add this in your original post or something to help the metric folks.


Nice one buddy I'm going to make a new file in with the folder on docs.com for updates QnA's etc, I'll add it there, thanks so much.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#60 Posted : Friday, October 7, 2016 3:26:14 PM(UTC)
New files added in the link.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#61 Posted : Monday, October 10, 2016 7:17:58 AM(UTC)
Going to quiet over the next few days got GOW4 to now πŸ˜‰
Rank: Racing Permit
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#62 Posted : Tuesday, October 11, 2016 7:08:52 AM(UTC)
I downloaded the guide, it helped me get started. In fm6 and fh2 I always skipped over the tune section. I would just upgrade with parts and use as the game set it up. thanks for going through the effort to type it up.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#63 Posted : Tuesday, October 11, 2016 1:37:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CopybookEarth18 Go to Quoted Post
I downloaded the guide, it helped me get started. In fm6 and fh2 I always skipped over the tune section. I would just upgrade with parts and use as the game set it up. thanks for going through the effort to type it up.


That's awesome dude, I'm glad it's helped you so much. Thanks for the comment man πŸ˜‰.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#64 Posted : Wednesday, October 12, 2016 6:29:43 AM(UTC)
Just stopping in to say great job on helping & explaining to the Forza community. Keep up the great work.

AKA: SP01LED JAM1E.
Twitter = @PTG_Jamie
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#65 Posted : Wednesday, October 12, 2016 7:23:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Jamie Go to Quoted Post
Just stopping in to say great job on helping & explaining to the Forza community. Keep up the great work.


Thanks for that Jamie, I can't believe how well this guide has been doing and it's helped lots of people which is awesome.
Btw been rocking around in some of you tunes, great stuff man, keep them coming πŸ˜‰
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#66 Posted : Tuesday, October 18, 2016 4:28:36 PM(UTC)
Hope everyone who is using this is getting on well with it 😊
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#67 Posted : Thursday, October 27, 2016 5:10:15 PM(UTC)
I've mostly been going by trial-and-error... mostly error, in order to tune my cars. I'm glad I've found this post! Thank you for all the effort and insight to tuning! =)
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#68 Posted : Friday, October 28, 2016 7:32:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: widdlecat Go to Quoted Post
I've mostly been going by trial-and-error... mostly error, in order to tune my cars. I'm glad I've found this post! Thank you for all the effort and insight to tuning! =)


Your welcome dude, thanks 😊
Rank: Racing Permit
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#69 Posted : Saturday, October 29, 2016 5:48:34 AM(UTC)
Metric version calculator!

In the old topic I also posted my edit of the google spreadsheet, here it is again in this topic.
https://docs.google.com/...rEoZ2k/edit?usp=sharing

I also added a few features;
- Downforce
- ARB strength % (default = 50%)
- Suspension hardness (100% is on road, 25% is offroad)
- Rebound / bump ratio

You can use the live version but if you click "file", then make a copy on your drive, you won't see others working in the document.
A new copy would be needed when I update it, if you want to use the latest version in private.

Feel free the share your copy if you are able to improve on it. The security settings will carry over, so you only need to get in there if you want a new publicly editable cell.

Edited by user Saturday, October 29, 2016 5:56:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#70 Posted : Monday, October 31, 2016 1:31:59 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ThaJay236 Go to Quoted Post
Metric version calculator!

In the old topic I also posted my edit of the google spreadsheet, here it is again in this topic.
https://docs.google.com/...rEoZ2k/edit?usp=sharing

I also added a few features;
- Downforce
- ARB strength % (default = 50%)
- Suspension hardness (100% is on road, 25% is offroad)
- Rebound / bump ratio

You can use the live version but if you click "file", then make a copy on your drive, you won't see others working in the document.
A new copy would be needed when I update it, if you want to use the latest version in private.

Feel free the share your copy if you are able to improve on it. The security settings will carry over, so you only need to get in there if you want a new publicly editable cell.


Sweet update dude good work πŸ‘πŸ˜†
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#71 Posted : Thursday, November 10, 2016 6:56:41 AM(UTC)
It would be great to know how people using this are getting on results etc.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#72 Posted : Friday, November 11, 2016 9:28:50 AM(UTC)
Thanks for putting my link in the op!

My personal results with your guide and the resulting calculator are pretty good I'd say. I have to put a lot more acceleration in my builds compared to what I was used to in FM4, due to the long stretches of open road in the Horizon games. But the baseline tunes feel very balanced all the time. Often I don't even change much if I just want to use a car and don't feel like tweaking the whole thing. Pretty much good enough for some online lobbies.

When it comes to tweaking the setup, that's pretty much never done. But I did get some good results at some circuit leaderboards, one top 100 position and a couple of top 1% - 0,01% positions. Top 1% is pretty doable with only the build on most cars (so that's like pos 3k out of 300k). Just the baseline tune gives me the chance to get another couple 100 places and the fine tuning process is needed to find the limit of the car / driver / track combination.

I'm also wondering if the guys that made a tune topic for themselves use this or something similar, or do they use a completely different method?

On caster, I often use less of it on faster cars, like 3-4 for the top tier.

Edited by user Friday, November 11, 2016 9:30:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#73 Posted : Saturday, November 12, 2016 3:16:46 AM(UTC)
Yea nice stuff man, one thing I've noticed aswell if you not in the mood to tune specific point the Base tunes are alot more viable now with very little tweaking.
I don't know about other tbh as such, I know alot of thunders like to use real world mathematical stuff etc and stay 100% true to real world tuning. Others do it simply be how it feels when driving etc. I guess really it comes down to what best suits a person really. Lots of different ways to do things really which 1 thing that helps forza stand out.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#74 Posted : Saturday, December 10, 2016 8:53:53 AM(UTC)
Just bumping it up 😊
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#75 Posted : Saturday, December 17, 2016 4:58:47 AM(UTC)
Many thanks for taking the time to write such an in depth guide. I've never really bothered with tuning before but now I want to raise the drivatar difficulty it's proving a big help. The 200% brake force is a good example; I would never have thought to try that but it works.
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