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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#26 Posted : Friday, September 30, 2016 4:56:58 AM(UTC)
I see therw you then, you'll be rocking now. Thanks Raindancer for your input.

Edited by user Saturday, October 1, 2016 9:40:37 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#27 Posted : Saturday, October 1, 2016 4:36:10 AM(UTC)
BTW if anyone is struggling just throw me a message and I'll do my best to help out

Edited by user Saturday, October 1, 2016 9:41:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
 1 user liked this post.
#28 Posted : Saturday, October 1, 2016 5:48:25 AM(UTC)
Quote:
With the brakes you have two setting FORCE and Pressure, When tuning the FORCE a 50% split will divide the overall breaking force equally on the front and on the rear. A 55% force will make the the front of the car break harder than the rear. I strongly recommend that you use between 52% and 58%, which ever gives you the best 100-0 breaking distance.


I think you might need to review this as I feel that Brake Balance is bugged in this game.

Normally, if you set the Brake Balance towards the rear (slider to the right) the rear brakes will lock up first under heaving braking.

From the tuning I've done so far it seems as if the brakes do the opposite of what you set the Brake Balance to.

In a test last night I set the Balance on my car to 100% rear: The fronts locked up immediately.

When I put the Balance 100% towards the front, the rears locked up instead.

May be worth investigating...

Edited by user Saturday, October 1, 2016 5:49:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#29 Posted : Saturday, October 1, 2016 10:04:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
With the brakes you have two setting FORCE and Pressure, When tuning the FORCE a 50% split will divide the overall breaking force equally on the front and on the rear. A 55% force will make the the front of the car break harder than the rear. I strongly recommend that you use between 52% and 58%, which ever gives you the best 100-0 breaking distance.


I think you might need to review this as I feel that Brake Balance is bugged in this game.

Normally, if you set the Brake Balance towards the rear (slider to the right) the rear brakes will lock up first under heaving braking.

From the tuning I've done so far it seems as if the brakes do the opposite of what you set the Brake Balance to.

In a test last night I set the Balance on my car to 100% rear: The fronts locked up immediately.

When I put the Balance 100% towards the front, the rears locked up instead.

May be worth investigating...


Hey dude, I had a comment the other day about the breaks being bugged, which I am struggling to see other than when I pull a tune from FM6 the Break Balance is inverted. Which I think led him to believe that breaks setup in general is the opposite to FM6. I've still been doing my breaks as I would with no issues at all. Maybe there is something buggy going on with the breaks but I've not noticed as off yet lol.
I'm confused as to why you would test your breaking in those extreames, was just to see how the car would react? But shouldn't it be the opposite to how you discribed the cars behavior?
I think I'll have to do some testing myself.
Thanks for your input bud.

Edited by user Saturday, October 1, 2016 10:12:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#30 Posted : Saturday, October 1, 2016 1:15:20 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
With the brakes you have two setting FORCE and Pressure, When tuning the FORCE a 50% split will divide the overall breaking force equally on the front and on the rear. A 55% force will make the the front of the car break harder than the rear. I strongly recommend that you use between 52% and 58%, which ever gives you the best 100-0 breaking distance.


I think you might need to review this as I feel that Brake Balance is bugged in this game.

Normally, if you set the Brake Balance towards the rear (slider to the right) the rear brakes will lock up first under heaving braking.

From the tuning I've done so far it seems as if the brakes do the opposite of what you set the Brake Balance to.

In a test last night I set the Balance on my car to 100% rear: The fronts locked up immediately.

When I put the Balance 100% towards the front, the rears locked up instead.

May be worth investigating...


Ok so I've been doing some controlled tests for breaking 100-0. CAR S1900 2015 Charger Hellcat
Test 1
Runway start of central white stripe starts breaking zone.
Using ABS and TCS, brake pressure 180%, 58% front, left side of white stripe.
Test 2
Same conditions but 42% front exact opposite in break balance. On right side of the white stripe.
Result
Test 1 with more front on 58% stopped in a shorter distence 100-0 by around a car lenght.

Test 3
Same condition as test 1 this time without ABS or TCS on, 58%, left side.
Test 4
Same as test 3 except break balance on 42%, right side.
Result, basically the same result as tests 1 and 2. The car with more front at 58% stopped in a shorter distance from 100-0 by again around a car length.

Like I mentioned earlier the only bug that I have noticed is when I pull over a tune from FM6 that I know is tuned with more front at say 58% it is inverted to 42% on FH3.
So guys if you pull over your tunes be sure to check your break settings

Edited by user Saturday, October 1, 2016 1:18:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
#31 Posted : Saturday, October 1, 2016 11:15:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xCaesars Wrathx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
With the brakes you have two setting FORCE and Pressure, When tuning the FORCE a 50% split will divide the overall breaking force equally on the front and on the rear. A 55% force will make the the front of the car break harder than the rear. I strongly recommend that you use between 52% and 58%, which ever gives you the best 100-0 breaking distance.


I think you might need to review this as I feel that Brake Balance is bugged in this game.

Normally, if you set the Brake Balance towards the rear (slider to the right) the rear brakes will lock up first under heaving braking.

From the tuning I've done so far it seems as if the brakes do the opposite of what you set the Brake Balance to.

In a test last night I set the Balance on my car to 100% rear: The fronts locked up immediately.

When I put the Balance 100% towards the front, the rears locked up instead.

May be worth investigating...


Hey dude, I had a comment the other day about the breaks being bugged, which I am struggling to see other than when I pull a tune from FM6 the Break Balance is inverted. Which I think led him to believe that breaks setup in general is the opposite to FM6. I've still been doing my breaks as I would with no issues at all. Maybe there is something buggy going on with the breaks but I've not noticed as off yet lol.
I'm confused as to why you would test your breaking in those extreames, was just to see how the car would react? But shouldn't it be the opposite to how you discribed the cars behavior?
I think I'll have to do some testing myself.
Thanks for your input bud.


I tested the extremes as I'm building a car for King/Infected. Right now I'm toying with a car that can lock the rears on demand so that it can make quick 180 degree turns. :)

For reference it was the standard Polaris buggy where I noticed the issue.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#32 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:16:54 AM(UTC)
The handbrake is good for that lol
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#33 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2016 4:51:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xCaesars Wrathx Go to Quoted Post
The handbrake is good for that lol


Doesn't lock fast enough ;)
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#34 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2016 5:05:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xCaesars Wrathx Go to Quoted Post
The handbrake is good for that lol


Doesn't lock fast enough ;)


😉 aha
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#35 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2016 7:09:54 AM(UTC)
Good stuff guys, thanks for sharing. Really helpful to get the balance.
I have been messing around a bit and had a lot on understeer issues. This gets a much more neutral base tune to work with.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#36 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2016 8:24:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: OdinThe1337 Go to Quoted Post
Good stuff guys, thanks for sharing. Really helpful to get the balance.
I have been messing around a bit and had a lot on understeer issues. This gets a much more neutral base tune to work with.


Good stuff dude thats what its there for, hope you get plenty of use out of it 😊
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#37 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2016 8:29:11 PM(UTC)
New Update for guide. view or downloadable files in PDF and WORD.DOC format.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#38 Posted : Sunday, October 2, 2016 11:35:17 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xCaesars Wrathx Go to Quoted Post
New Update for guide. view or downloadable files in PDF and WORD.DOC format.


the links to RaindancerAU's files seem broken
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#39 Posted : Monday, October 3, 2016 5:54:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ColinLam Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xCaesars Wrathx Go to Quoted Post
New Update for guide. view or downloadable files in PDF and WORD.DOC format.


the links to RaindancerAU's files seem broken


Is that in the post here on Forza.net or from the word/pdf files?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#40 Posted : Monday, October 3, 2016 7:51:17 AM(UTC)
LINKS FIXED
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#41 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 4:30:50 AM(UTC)
Well nearly 400 views and lots of downloads how are you guys getting on with the guide?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#42 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 6:02:16 AM(UTC)
I need to spend some time on a PC with the new docs and to polish up my spreadsheet now that it's more than just me and CW using it :)

Any feedback is welcome, so anyone who uses it feel free to PM me to keep CW's thread on topic about his tuning guide.
Click to watch Sim and Realword Driving Videos

PC & XB1
Next Level Racing GT Ultimate v2
Fanatec Clubsport: Wheelbase v2.5 | Inverted Pedals v3 | SQ Shifter v1.5 | Universal Hub for XB1
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#43 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 8:57:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RaindancerAU Go to Quoted Post
I need to spend some time on a PC with the new docs and to polish up my spreadsheet now that it's more than just me and CW using it :)

Any feedback is welcome, so anyone who uses it feel free to PM me to keep CW's thread on topic about his tuning guide.


Same here guys. Everyone should have access to it.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#44 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 9:03:31 AM(UTC)
All,

Seems my settings were changed....

now anyone with link can open and use this sheet. My setting have changed so editors can not change these settings.

https://goo.gl/W5MtB1
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#45 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 1:24:08 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RaindancerAU Go to Quoted Post
I need to spend some time on a PC with the new docs and to polish up my spreadsheet now that it's more than just me and CW using it :)

Any feedback is welcome, so anyone who uses it feel free to PM me to keep CW's thread on topic about his tuning guide.


Originally Posted by: Clark GriswoId Go to Quoted Post
All,

Seems my settings were changed....

now anyone with link can open and use this sheet. My setting have changed so editors can not change these settings.

https://goo.gl/W5MtB1


The new format Raindancer has had 500+ views already and lots of downloads, its flying.
I think any updates undertaken won't effect the guide as long as the links for both of you two's sheets stay the the same.
So that I don't have to take it down then edit links and re upload, as that will reset stats i.e. Views, Downloads, if I have to then fair enough but I would prefer to avoid that action.
I don't think I can edit the guide on Doc.com either.
Clark is that still the same file or a new link to whats already in the guide, someone changed your settings? Do I need to change anything in the guide?

Edited by user Tuesday, October 4, 2016 1:28:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#46 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 1:42:39 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clark GriswoId Go to Quoted Post
All,

Seems my settings were changed....

now anyone with link can open and use this sheet. My setting have changed so editors can not change these settings.

https://goo.gl/W5MtB1


Potential issue!? I've just thought, as I was just on your sheet, and saw the values change without my input. Google sheets online, is it essentially a LIVE webpage? So others can be on the page at the same time, changing values I put into the sheet for example!?
Thought it may be of use to advise people to click on FILE then DOWNLOAD
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#47 Posted : Tuesday, October 4, 2016 8:12:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xCaesars Wrathx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clark GriswoId Go to Quoted Post
All,

Seems my settings were changed....

now anyone with link can open and use this sheet. My setting have changed so editors can not change these settings.

https://goo.gl/W5MtB1


Potential issue!? I've just thought, as I was just on your sheet, and saw the values change without my input. Google sheets online, is it essentially a LIVE webpage? So others can be on the page at the same time, changing values I put into the sheet for example!?
Thought it may be of use to advise people to click on FILE then DOWNLOAD


yes it is a LIVE if everyone is using the "cloud" version and you are correct we should first download then use the file :)
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#48 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2016 2:46:50 AM(UTC)
Great post man. Hope a mod stickies this honestly. Also, a few suggestions: I think it'll be great to use a new page for each broad category, just to improve organisation. Furthmore, maybe use a weight distribution of something other than 50/50 because the examples are very confusing.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#49 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2016 5:32:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xCaesars Wrathx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clark GriswoId Go to Quoted Post
All,

Seems my settings were changed....

now anyone with link can open and use this sheet. My setting have changed so editors can not change these settings.

https://goo.gl/W5MtB1


Potential issue!? I've just thought, as I was just on your sheet, and saw the values change without my input. Google sheets online, is it essentially a LIVE webpage? So others can be on the page at the same time, changing values I put into the sheet for example!?
Thought it may be of use to advise people to click on FILE then DOWNLOAD



Yes, you can use online or download for use. Link stays the same, the settings were changed so no one had access- i had to set it so anyone editing can not change the sharing settings, etc.

All is well, make sure you guys actually brake for the first corner, and happy motoring
Rank: Racing Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#50 Posted : Wednesday, October 5, 2016 7:39:42 AM(UTC)
Caster angles, how did you come to the conclusion to run them that high?

The way caster works is creating an angle the front suspension travels up into the wheel well. It's beneficial that as the tires turn, the outside wheel gains a bit of negative camber. Allowing you to run less negative camber. If you look at street cars you can see the rear almost always have more negative camber, but turn the wheels a bit and the fronts will quickly eclipse the rear.

Problem comes with excessive caster will lean the tire over too much and decrease contact patch. Which leads to understeer in tighter corners, such as hairpins. Not too mention it's harder to turn in, but this is a mechanical effect that can effect people using ffb wheels, I don't think the effect presents itself to controller players.

Generally I run between 4.5 and 6.0. I may go above 6 if the car is heavy and has down force. I may slip below 4.5, usually on very light, little down force cars like old open wheel racers.

I'm just curious how you arrived at your high caster?
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