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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#126 Posted : Tuesday, August 9, 2016 11:33:28 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Mechberg Go to Quoted Post
Hi folks,

I wanted to let you know that we’ve been following this thread closely and that we do recognize the issues that players have brought up with Monza being used in qualifying for Week 1 of the ForzaRC. While our goal was to bring this track back into competitive use with our recent content update, clearly there is more work to be done. With that in mind, I’d like to apologize for any frustration this has caused.

To be clear, we will be using the track limits as defined in Forza Motorsport 6 for our qualifying Rivals events. However, for this weekend’s Week 1 Cup and Week 1 Showdown events with ESL, we will be running a different track – the Nürburgring GP.

Thanks,
Brian


Great news Brian and thanks for letting us know you guys are monitoring the forum. Ltitle things like this make a massive difference to all of us

But I have to say this is a mistake that was so easily avoided and there isn't really any excuse for missing it.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#127 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:25:48 AM(UTC)
That's great. Now you can prove......... it does not matter. They have the skill, and they will still be fast. KUDOS to all of them. Even if you drove the exact same line, you still will not beat them. But I do see the point. You are watched very closely in real life racing in terms of staying on the track.

Oh, yeah, by the way.......... the black car is faster than the yellow one............. might want to fix that.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 10, 2016 1:39:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

KEEP THE RUBBER SIDE DOWN AND ON THE TRACK
Rank: Driver's Permit
#128 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:04:38 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post


Anyway I need to go find 8 seconds....... I'm coming for you Laige and Harmonic! Hahaha


Just to try and help you out and save you some time if your new to it.....you'll need to ride the clutch too otherwise you'll get left behind on the straights. Listen to the gear changes on replays you'll see what I mean


Thanks,

I think I've been doing that already, but yeah I'm paying heaps of attention to the leaders' laps to see what I could try to improve.

Accelerating out the last corner really hurts me, I always seem to get a bit twitchy and the ghost I'm chasing pulls a small gap or gets a bit closer over the front straight
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#129 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:22:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post


Anyway I need to go find 8 seconds....... I'm coming for you Laige and Harmonic! Hahaha


Just to try and help you out and save you some time if your new to it.....you'll need to ride the clutch too otherwise you'll get left behind on the straights. Listen to the gear changes on replays you'll see what I mean


Thanks,

I think I've been doing that already, but yeah I'm paying heaps of attention to the leaders' laps to see what I could try to improve.

Accelerating out the last corner really hurts me, I always seem to get a bit twitchy and the ghost I'm chasing pulls a small gap or gets a bit closer over the front straight


The replay is not accurate. The sound of the gear cage is wrong he does not ride the clutch. Watch the telemetry for a more accurate picture of what he does. Also tyre smoke does not display so when he's spinning the wheels on the exit you can't tell it's the same in race. No1's tyre smoke shows up on the start so it looks like everyone is using tcs
Rank: Racing Permit
#130 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:34:20 AM(UTC)


Thanks,

I think I've been doing that already, but yeah I'm paying heaps of attention to the leaders' laps to see what I could try to improve.

Accelerating out the last corner really hurts me, I always seem to get a bit twitchy and the ghost I'm chasing pulls a small gap or gets a bit closer over the front straight [/quote]

yeh parabolica , it's a tricky one but I think I'm OK there now, exit speed is everything for the long straight.
Think slow in fast out. I brake at the 100M board down to 3rd, take an early apex, exercise patience before going on the throttle out wide to the left onto the straight.

Don't get me wrong I'm no ninja in the top 100 or anything but im alright, and just like to help.
I reckon from the time ive put in so far that I could maybe find another half a sec once every 4 hours or so playing "dodge the dirty lap triangle" but I dont have that much gaming time on my hands.
I think it's harder to do that with a wheel too and your better off with a pad. I'm **** with a pad now, I haven't raced with one for so long
Rank: Racing Permit
#131 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:39:53 AM(UTC)
Turn 10,

This may be too tricky to implement. But it would be great to have a "hard core league" for wheel users only, restricted to cockpit or bonnet cam and no assists , I'd love to see that.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#132 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:58:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XtremeR Tyskie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post


Anyway I need to go find 8 seconds....... I'm coming for you Laige and Harmonic! Hahaha


Just to try and help you out and save you some time if your new to it.....you'll need to ride the clutch too otherwise you'll get left behind on the straights. Listen to the gear changes on replays you'll see what I mean


Thanks,

I think I've been doing that already, but yeah I'm paying heaps of attention to the leaders' laps to see what I could try to improve.

Accelerating out the last corner really hurts me, I always seem to get a bit twitchy and the ghost I'm chasing pulls a small gap or gets a bit closer over the front straight


The replay is not accurate. The sound of the gear cage is wrong he does not ride the clutch. Watch the telemetry for a more accurate picture of what he does. Also tyre smoke does not display so when he's spinning the wheels on the exit you can't tell it's the same in race. No1's tyre smoke shows up on the start so it looks like everyone is using tcs


What are you talking about?
You can clearly see in the Rivals event which asssists we use., And as you can see, we use none. Only braking lines for most of us, and it's not displayed in the LBs. And Manual w/clutch of course.
You don't need any assist on this car, it's B class and it's not a 800+ HP car with no tyres, so it's just barely sliding.

Also, if you want to accelerate better in the last corner, try to be more progressive on the throttle, and use gas earlier. Try to be as smooth as possible when turning.
But yeah no assists at all, you definitely don't need them.

And thx Mechberg for letting us know of a track change. Nurburgring GP should be more interesting than Monza, although it's not difficult to make something more interesting than a track butchery.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 10, 2016 2:59:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#133 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 3:41:13 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BAM Seven Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: XtremeR Tyskie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post


Anyway I need to go find 8 seconds....... I'm coming for you Laige and Harmonic! Hahaha


Just to try and help you out and save you some time if your new to it.....you'll need to ride the clutch too otherwise you'll get left behind on the straights. Listen to the gear changes on replays you'll see what I mean


Thanks,

I think I've been doing that already, but yeah I'm paying heaps of attention to the leaders' laps to see what I could try to improve.

Accelerating out the last corner really hurts me, I always seem to get a bit twitchy and the ghost I'm chasing pulls a small gap or gets a bit closer over the front straight


The replay is not accurate. The sound of the gear cage is wrong he does not ride the clutch. Watch the telemetry for a more accurate picture of what he does. Also tyre smoke does not display so when he's spinning the wheels on the exit you can't tell it's the same in race. No1's tyre smoke shows up on the start so it looks like everyone is using tcs


What are you talking about?
You can clearly see in the Rivals event which asssists we use., And as you can see, we use none. Only braking lines for most of us, and it's not displayed in the LBs. And Manual w/clutch of course.
You don't need any assist on this car, it's B class and it's not a 800+ HP car with no tyres, so it's just barely sliding.

Also, if you want to accelerate better in the last corner, try to be more progressive on the throttle, and use gas earlier. Try to be as smooth as possible when turning.
But yeah no assists at all, you definitely don't need them.

And thx Mechberg for letting us know of a track change. Nurburgring GP should be more interesting than Monza, although it's not difficult to make something more interesting than a track butchery.


If you read through the post some1 claims that number 1 is riding the clutch. This is not the case it's a glitch on the replay system. It's been like this since 4 maybe before that as well. I have come to the conclusion that there is a glitch with the tyre smoke as well. When racing in a lobby it would seem as tho everyone has tcs on as I'm the only person spinning off the line. We all pull away together so I suspect it will be the same in the replays as well.

What I'm not saying is that everyone should use tcs or that anyone is. I'm pointing out glitches in the replay system that will give people the wrong information when trying to learn from a replay

Hope that's a bit clearer now
Rank: On the Podium
#134 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 6:41:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ezrae Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CoreyTheGreat32 Go to Quoted Post
Does anyone know how to post the replays and where to post them? Also, where under the rivals option is the racing?


http://forums.forzamotor...-prizes.aspx#post_535316

The rule about replays probably just means that the system has to have recorded the replay of your lap on the leaderboard for you in case they need to review it for legitimacy. You'll notice on some leaderboards the replay icon by the gamertag is not available (due to disconnecting or some other reason).


I took it as the replays only need to be saved in the finals. When you Rival and qualify, then you are on to finals. Is this right or not? Why would you need to save a Rival qualifying lap?


Not correct. Odds are some in top 128 are ineligible due to location, not being registered, or hidden replays.

The lap is saved automatically. Odds are ESL didn't know this at the time or wanted the rules to be as clear as possible even if redundant. I do recall some of the MLG rules being written weird because it looked like they used shooters as a template for setting rules. I've noticed similar with the language used by ESL.
Rank: On the Podium
 1 user liked this post.
#135 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:06:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FA RACING 01 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ctrlSHIFT JP Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post


Anyway I need to go find 8 seconds....... I'm coming for you Laige and Harmonic! Hahaha


Just to try and help you out and save you some time if your new to it.....you'll need to ride the clutch too otherwise you'll get left behind on the straights. Listen to the gear changes on replays you'll see what I mean


Is there a rule somewhere saying you need to lift off when you shift? Again, for whatever reason, the game allows it and it's been like this in previous games too so blame the devs if you have a problem.


Spot on, but you know wat they say, small things amuse small minds. Next thing will be complaining because some have bigger TV screens than others which gives an unfair advantage.


What's with all the hate on this forum these days?! I'm giving someone new some helpful advice! It's not realistic so not knowing about it puts you at a disadvantage.
This was a positive community a couple of years back, now it's full of keyboard warriors and arrogance!


You're advice was inaccurate and you had no idea. Paired that with your other responses of IRL nonsense and complete cluelessness about what hotlapping is like in Forza (it's cutthroat and controversial) you get attitude riddled responses.

Here's better advice:

1. Intentionally pinging the Rev limiter loses time for every car in the game

2. Shifting at the highest possible point in the Mustang is a good way to lose time. Not every car needs to be shifted at the max rev.

3. The replays are glitched in terms of sound. Use the tach feature in the replay to get an accurate idea of when to shift.

4. Never lift with shifting.

5. View replay to see which gear is needed for a corner.

6. Rev match downshifts

7. Engine brake tight corner like turn 1.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:07:55 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
 1 user liked this post.
#136 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:17:34 AM(UTC)
I am kind of sick of the whole corner cutting thing as well, but in reality if the game is allowing people to do it then it's on Turn10 to fix that.

It's like playing FIFA. If you keep slide tackling over and over (even if you're really good at executing it cleanly) you're gonna get red cards and tossed out of the game.

Think about it, these people make extremely accurate 3D models of cars and scan tracks to such detail they can simulate rain and know where the actual puddles would be!

Those are just 2 crazy features of this game, so it is not out of the realm of reality to suggest that Turn10 give racers the OPTION for competing with stricter rules. I am all for a friggin' DEMOLITION DERBY add-on where the idiots who just want to ram people can get together and get off the damn track. They could work on damage simulation algorithms and creativity there that could come back to the track (car parts laying on the track etc).

But if they could just add more penalties, obviously tightening up the allowances which flag a dirty lap.

I have tried to keep up with the number one rival on Monza this week and even if I cut the corner in the same way he does, I get flagged for it 90% of the time!

What are the rules for the first chicane? Can you have 4 tires in the yellow like half the people in the top do?

I did notice on the open league in Hockenheim, they put up a tire wall on the one corner everyone cuts by the grandstand. Tons of people were slamming into that the other night who are obviously used to taking the "grass line" through that.

There's no programatic reason they can't improve the rules simulations — give people penalties so a corner cutter in 1st will drop place every time 10 seconds is added to their overall time in penalties. It can't be THAT Hard to come up with an algorithm that can say "OK, after the 20th time you've SLAMMED into the back of someone's car on a turn instead of using the brakes, you get booted for an hour"

ANYTHING would be better than the garbage they have in these races which are ALWAYS a giant pile up on turn 1, and whoever survives that gets to battle it out for the top 5 spots. It's flat out retarded. I think they should have a game option to increase / decrease the penalty severity for lobbies and have those ratcheted up for leagues.

If people have something to LOSE by being a on turns, then you will see those laps clean up pretty fast. Right now corner cutting gives you a winning advantage so you will never see it change in this game.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:23:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#137 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 7:18:27 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FA RACING 01 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ctrlSHIFT JP Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post


Anyway I need to go find 8 seconds....... I'm coming for you Laige and Harmonic! Hahaha


Just to try and help you out and save you some time if your new to it.....you'll need to ride the clutch too otherwise you'll get left behind on the straights. Listen to the gear changes on replays you'll see what I mean


Is there a rule somewhere saying you need to lift off when you shift? Again, for whatever reason, the game allows it and it's been like this in previous games too so blame the devs if you have a problem.


Spot on, but you know wat they say, small things amuse small minds. Next thing will be complaining because some have bigger TV screens than others which gives an unfair advantage.


What's with all the hate on this forum these days?! I'm giving someone new some helpful advice! It's not realistic so not knowing about it puts you at a disadvantage.
This was a positive community a couple of years back, now it's full of keyboard warriors and arrogance!


You're advice was inaccurate and you had no idea. Paired that with your other responses of IRL nonsense and complete cluelessness about what hotlapping is like in Forza (it's cutthroat and controversial) you get attitude riddled responses.

Here's better advice:

1. Intentionally pinging the Rev limiter loses time for every car in the game

2. Shifting at the highest possible point in the Mustang is a good way to lose time. Not every car needs to be shifted at the max rev.

3. The replays are glitched in terms of sound. Use the tach feature in the replay to get an accurate idea of when to shift.

4. Never lift with shifting.

5. View replay to see which gear is needed for a corner.

6. Rev match downshifts

7. Engine brake tight corner like turn 1.


Spot on, thats what I ment lol
Rank: Racing Permit
#138 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:19:45 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FA RACING 01 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ctrlSHIFT JP Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post


Anyway I need to go find 8 seconds....... I'm coming for you Laige and Harmonic! Hahaha


Just to try and help you out and save you some time if your new to it.....you'll need to ride the clutch too otherwise you'll get left behind on the straights. Listen to the gear changes on replays you'll see what I mean


Is there a rule somewhere saying you need to lift off when you shift? Again, for whatever reason, the game allows it and it's been like this in previous games too so blame the devs if you have a problem.


Spot on, but you know wat they say, small things amuse small minds. Next thing will be complaining because some have bigger TV screens than others which gives an unfair advantage.


What's with all the hate on this forum these days?! I'm giving someone new some helpful advice! It's not realistic so not knowing about it puts you at a disadvantage.
This was a positive community a couple of years back, now it's full of keyboard warriors and arrogance!


You're advice was inaccurate and you had no idea. Paired that with your other responses of IRL nonsense and complete cluelessness about what hotlapping is like in Forza (it's cutthroat and controversial) you get attitude riddled responses.

Here's better advice:

1. Intentionally pinging the Rev limiter loses time for every car in the game

2. Shifting at the highest possible point in the Mustang is a good way to lose time. Not every car needs to be shifted at the max rev.

3. The replays are glitched in terms of sound. Use the tach feature in the replay to get an accurate idea of when to shift.

4. Never lift with shifting.

5. View replay to see which gear is needed for a corner.

6. Rev match downshifts

7. Engine brake tight corner like turn 1.


Your first paragraph is everything that's wrong with the Internet, but thanks for proving my point about arrogance.

I agree with all of your advice,I didn't know about the sound glitch on replays, the point about not lifting is what I was trying to tell him, in IRL you wouldn't do that, it isn't nonsense, so knowing about it brings an advantage.
I just have one more point to add to it;

8. If you wouldn't be brave enough to say it to someone's face then don't type it.

Rank: On the Podium
#139 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 9:17:08 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FA RACING 01 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ctrlSHIFT JP Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Springbock Go to Quoted Post


Anyway I need to go find 8 seconds....... I'm coming for you Laige and Harmonic! Hahaha


Just to try and help you out and save you some time if your new to it.....you'll need to ride the clutch too otherwise you'll get left behind on the straights. Listen to the gear changes on replays you'll see what I mean


Is there a rule somewhere saying you need to lift off when you shift? Again, for whatever reason, the game allows it and it's been like this in previous games too so blame the devs if you have a problem.


Spot on, but you know wat they say, small things amuse small minds. Next thing will be complaining because some have bigger TV screens than others which gives an unfair advantage.


What's with all the hate on this forum these days?! I'm giving someone new some helpful advice! It's not realistic so not knowing about it puts you at a disadvantage.
This was a positive community a couple of years back, now it's full of keyboard warriors and arrogance!


You're advice was inaccurate and you had no idea. Paired that with your other responses of IRL nonsense and complete cluelessness about what hotlapping is like in Forza (it's cutthroat and controversial) you get attitude riddled responses.

Here's better advice:

1. Intentionally pinging the Rev limiter loses time for every car in the game

2. Shifting at the highest possible point in the Mustang is a good way to lose time. Not every car needs to be shifted at the max rev.

3. The replays are glitched in terms of sound. Use the tach feature in the replay to get an accurate idea of when to shift.

4. Never lift with shifting.

5. View replay to see which gear is needed for a corner.

6. Rev match downshifts

7. Engine brake tight corner like turn 1.


Your first paragraph is everything that's wrong with the Internet, but thanks for proving my point about arrogance.

I agree with all of your advice,I didn't know about the sound glitch on replays, the point about not lifting is what I was trying to tell him, in IRL you wouldn't do that, it isn't nonsense, so knowing about it brings an advantage.
I just have one more point to add to it;

8. If you wouldn't be brave enough to say it to someone's face then don't type it.



Arrogant about? Just spitting off how things are. Players who are hotlappers usually wear two hats. One hat is the racer who tries to play fair and the other is a hotlapper who does whatever is needed to be the best. Often times the hotlapper hat conflicts with the racer hat. Generally the racer hat is who the player really is (ie Raceboy). The hotlapper hat is usually just a means to an end no matter if a bad taste is left in the player's mouth.

Perfect example is the MLG 3v3 and 1v1 finals. Everyone hated the LB cars because they mostly used completely wonky builds. With money on the line, we drove LB cars to get the best shot of winning money.

You do what it takes to win within the confines of the rules. This is the hotlapper hat. This is our code....lmao.


I'm brash in reality so 8. isn't an issue. Probably a deadly mix of the Cajun and Scottish in me. Lol.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#140 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 9:54:08 AM(UTC)
I can see that everyone on here that says major racing series police staying between the curbs DID NOT watch the Nascar race at Watkins Glen this last weekend.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#141 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 10:03:23 AM(UTC)
Swerve? Arrogant? That's a good one! Over the years he has been a very helpful part of the Community and I know many have learnt alot from the advice he has given - same for most of the fast people you have labelled arrogant in this thread such as Wizard and Harmonic.

OT: at least we now have clear guidelines to follow in terms of what is clean and isn't. Hopefully everyone can now knuckle down and concentrate on improving their times. Good luck everyone!
Rank: Racing Permit
#142 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 10:29:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TRG wacky gt Go to Quoted Post
Swerve? Arrogant? That's a good one! Over the years he has been a very helpful part of the Community and I know many have learnt alot from the advice he has given - same for most of the fast people you have labelled arrogant in this thread such as Wizard and Harmonic.

OT: at least we now have clear guidelines to follow in terms of what is clean and isn't. Hopefully everyone can now knuckle down and concentrate on improving their times. Good luck everyone!


Not that it really matters and it's a 1st world problem of the highest degree, but if you go back to quote 138 where I, one noob at rivals, was just trying to help out another, then you'll notice the remarks that follow are not polite. I don't know if I'm maybe just talking to people much younger than me here or what but if you don't understand where I'm coming from read it again.
As for my remarks on some of the fast guys on here coming across as arrogant, they were, because they weren't taking kindly to comments from people unhappy over the cutting and were getting defensive.
There are much bigger problems in the world to worry about but all it takes is to be polite and friendly and talk to people as if you would in the same room not safe in the knowledge your divided by a computer screen miles apart.
Whatever our differences we all love forza, there really isn't that many of us with that one thing in common so make very effort to make this little community positive.

Back to the racing please...
Rank: On the Podium
 2 users liked this post.
#143 Posted : Wednesday, August 10, 2016 10:58:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FISH AAC Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TRG wacky gt Go to Quoted Post
Swerve? Arrogant? That's a good one! Over the years he has been a very helpful part of the Community and I know many have learnt alot from the advice he has given - same for most of the fast people you have labelled arrogant in this thread such as Wizard and Harmonic.

OT: at least we now have clear guidelines to follow in terms of what is clean and isn't. Hopefully everyone can now knuckle down and concentrate on improving their times. Good luck everyone!


Not that it really matters and it's a 1st world problem of the highest degree, but if you go back to quote 138 where I, one noob at rivals, was just trying to help out another, then you'll notice the remarks that follow are not polite. I don't know if I'm maybe just talking to people much younger than me here or what but if you don't understand where I'm coming from read it again.
As for my remarks on some of the fast guys on here coming across as arrogant, they were, because they weren't taking kindly to comments from people unhappy over the cutting and were getting defensive.
There are much bigger problems in the world to worry about but all it takes is to be polite and friendly and talk to people as if you would in the same room not safe in the knowledge your divided by a computer screen miles apart.
Whatever our differences we all love forza, there really isn't that many of us with that one thing in common so make very effort to make this little community positive.

Back to the racing please...


When you get accused of cheating and likened to scum, what do you expect?

Nobody likes the "clean" line. With prizes and notoriety on the line, top guys aren't going to follow best practices and as such should NOT be hated on. If anything they should be praised for finding the issue again and expressing displeasure about having to take such lines to get better seeds for the 1v1s.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#144 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:00:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post


When you get accused of cheating and likened to scum, what do you expect?

Nobody likes the "clean" line. With prizes and notoriety on the line, top guys aren't going to follow best practices and as such should NOT be hated on. If anything they should be praised for finding the issue again and expressing displeasure about having to take such lines to get better seeds for the 1v1s.


I'd be more inclined to praise them if they collectively won the qualifier (which they will easily do) and then refuse to do the main competition in a form of protest about issues like this being so ridiculous and present when they shouldn't be there. It would be bad advertisement for T10 and may actually force them to fix an issue which was seen many months ago.

Personally, I do not blame the top guys and agree that they should use this clean line. I don't think any of you should be hated on for using it. This is T10's fault for not defining the track properly. With the issue raised they could have postponed this weeks qualifier and changed the race date to the end of the next one. There communication has also been slow with respect to this issue also. Although, at least they did communicate on this issue.

I will never be able to get into the top 128 regardless of what line I use. Like many others I just ain't that good. I'm lucky if I can get into the top 30%. So please do not think I am accusing you of cheating or likening you to scum. I am not. In fact I would much rather add you as a friend so I can chase your ghosts in normal rivals to try and improve my skill. Plus if you have any tips... ;-)
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#145 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:23:03 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Will Driver C Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post


When you get accused of cheating and likened to scum, what do you expect?

Nobody likes the "clean" line. With prizes and notoriety on the line, top guys aren't going to follow best practices and as such should NOT be hated on. If anything they should be praised for finding the issue again and expressing displeasure about having to take such lines to get better seeds for the 1v1s.


I'd be more inclined to praise them if they collectively won the qualifier (which they will easily do) and then refuse to do the main competition in a form of protest about issues like this being so ridiculous and present when they shouldn't be there. It would be bad advertisement for T10 and may actually force them to fix an issue which was seen many months ago.

Personally, I do not blame the top guys and agree that they should use this clean line. I don't think any of you should be hated on for using it. This is T10's fault for not defining the track properly. With the issue raised they could have postponed this weeks qualifier and changed the race date to the end of the next one. There communication has also been slow with respect to this issue also. Although, at least they did communicate on this issue.

I will never be able to get into the top 128 regardless of what line I use. Like many others I just ain't that good. I'm lucky if I can get into the top 30%. So please do not think I am accusing you of cheating or likening you to scum. I am not. In fact I would much rather add you as a friend so I can chase your ghosts in normal rivals to try and improve my skill. Plus if you have any tips... ;-)


The problem has been solved I think. FM6 track limits for 1st qualifier remain, but 1st round race now at Nurburgring GP (al BM T10). Nothing more to it or to gripe on. Time to focus on upcoming qualifiers at Catalunya and Watson Glen (I think) which will not present these issues. Looking forward to that.

Edited by user Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:24:13 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified


Better than always being right is knowing when to shut up
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FH, FM3, FM4, FM5, FH2, FM6, FM7
Rank: Driver's Permit
#146 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:59:34 AM(UTC)
What if the first corner of monza is a test? "A valid replay is required for every posted time to be eligible". So what if they won't accept the times posted by those cutting that corner, even if it is technically clean? This may not be the case but the thought occurred to me and i figured i would share.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#147 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:11:23 PM(UTC)
I would like to weigh in with my perspective on the whole matter. It’s a complex debate and I understand the points made by people on both sides of the argument.

A fundamental aspect of motorsport and elite competition around the world is that you take rules given by the organisers/governing body and take them to the absolute limit of what is allowed. There is a culture of that in motorsport and in a weird way, this mess of a rivals event replicates it perfectly.

Let’s take Formula One as an example. The drivers will always push their cars to the limit of what is acceptable and a great example surfaced recently at Hockenheim where drivers were regularly over a car length outside of the white lines which typically define the circuit. No one complained, because the governing body said it was allowed.

This is the key to the whole thing: it is up to the organisers to determine the boundaries of the circuit and they can do so how they wish. Therefore if they say you can cut the corner, then it doesn’t matter if it looks silly or is against your morals, cutting the corner now becomes okay because they said its okay. That is how motorsport works. 99% of the time they will state you must stay inside the lines but there are exceptions and this is one of them. In this instance, T10 have explicitly stated that the in-game ‘dirty lap’ triangle will determine what is clean, therefore going over the kerb at the first chicane at Monza is clean (Post #122). Silly, yes. Legal, yes.

Any commotion as a result should be directed at the organisers and not the drivers. T10 are the ones responsible for determining the outer limits of the circuit – and in my opinion the boundaries are absolutely awful around Monza. Surely they know that the track isn’t fixed and should have chosen another track but I would hereby ask T10 to get serious about fixing track boundaries. Proper solutions if you want a proper competition.

No one wants to be ‘cutting’ the kerbs at Monza. Ask any one of the top drivers: Laige, Box, Johnson and they would always rather stay on the tarmac. They do so to preserve their rightful places at the pinnacle of the game, because they are the best drivers at the game. If they didn’t cut, they would be replaced by someone worse who did. This would arbitrarily deny the best drivers their chance at going for the prize. If the game marked your lap as dirty when you go four wheels beyond the white line - that would be perfect. Everyone would be happy with that. This brings me to another point.

The top 128 drivers would remain the same regardless of what the track limits are. Everyone now has to stay on the tarmac only? Laige still wins. No one is being denied their shot at glory here. Laige, Box, Harmonic etc. would beat you whichever way the boundaries are set.

The competition is completely fair as it stands because the track is the same for all players. Still, it’s an unwanted situation which no one wanted but it arrived from 2 things: The culture in high end competition to push rules to the limit and the poor track defining by T10 in Forza 6.

You can hold the moral high ground if you wish, but you won’t qualify and you will be forgotten. Motorsport is unforgiving in that respect.

I propose to everyone: ‘Cut’ the track because T10 said you can.
I propose to T10: Fix the track limits.

TLDR: T10 said it’s fine to ‘cut’ therefore it’s fine to ‘cut’. T10 should get better at defining the edge of the track.

Edited by user Thursday, August 11, 2016 10:31:12 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#148 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:12:54 PM(UTC)
Additionally, this singling out of Raceboy is wrong in my opinion.

His job as a marshal is to clean up online lobbies, which he does. He shouldn’t be denied a chance in this competition because he is a marshal. I’d like to think we can differentiate between these two things:

ESL Esports ForzaRC: Best drivers in the world pushing for extremely good prizes. I liken this to Formula One, drivers will naturally push the rules and boundaries to the limit. This is a replication of real world motorsport. Organisers define the boundary, drivers drive to that boundary.

Online lobbies: CASUAL. Stay on the track because it doesn’t matter too much. Nothing rides on success in an online race so there is no need to push to the absolute limit.

He should be free to race to the absolute limit in this competition then promote relaxed but fair racing in the hoppers.

Also, asking one person to set an example won’t change anything, loads of people will still ‘cut’ the corner and Raceboy would just have a worse chance of winning the prize that he has legitimately competed for. It would be impossible to get EVERYONE to stick to the circuit 100% and unless you can get everyone to drive within the white lines, the results will be skewed. Sorting the track limits would fix the problem instantly.

To be clear: Push the limits given in an elite competition. Have a more reserved outlook in a hopper where there is nothing riding on the outcome of the race. Raceboy has done the right thing in each given situation here.
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#149 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:13:24 PM(UTC)
Another post about what would happen if everyone kept two wheels on the track:

Ideally, the game would have better track limits such that your lap becomes dirty if you go four wheels beyond the white lines. The reality is, this isn’t how it is.

However let’s presume everyone tried to at least two wheels inside the lines. This would actually muddy the water and make it very difficult to monitor for T10 and ESL. They would have to check every replay within the top 128 for the tiniest infraction.

I think this would actually deny better drivers their chance at getting through to the knockout stage. Think about it, some people who are slightly slower might cut the chicane by an inch where someone better wouldn’t. Slower people would get through because it would be so hard to police the exact limit of the track. It would get messy.

At least with the current ‘system’ there is a clearly defined track limit – you get a ‘dirty lap triangle’ if you went outside of the track. It’s a silly track limit but it is the track limit if you like it or not.

So again, I ask T10 to get serious about fixing your track limits if you want your competitions to be taken totally seriously and to make them look better to people looking in from the outside. The dirty lap triangle system really needs to be reviewed.

Edited by user Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:18:17 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#150 Posted : Thursday, August 11, 2016 12:25:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: dUdEmAn4250 Go to Quoted Post
What if the first corner of monza is a test? "A valid replay is required for every posted time to be eligible". So what if they won't accept the times posted by those cutting that corner, even if it is technically clean? This may not be the case but the thought occurred to me and i figured i would share.



Read post #122 of this thread. Turn 10 have explicitly stated it's fine to go across the kerb with all four wheel beyond the white line, as long as it's recorded as clean. Any lap of that nature will be accepted.
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