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Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#1 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 9:00:05 AM(UTC)
So apparently people are opening tickets against the top drivers becasue of the chicane at monza. It's not our faults, it's T10 for not fixing the tracks properly. What ever is clean is clean. Yeah I would not cut the chicane but if everyone else is doing it then we all have to. The rules on the site are a little vague, and I'm hoping someone from T10 or esl can confirm this to get an official word. I assume the rules only apply to the races it's self and not the rival events. I think this because if you look back at Formula E, when they did Long beach east everyone took the dirty line that was clean if you hit it right. (Cutting over the curb at the 1st corner) I'm just going to wait a little bit to set my lap and see how things pan out

Update: For those who don't want to read through this whole thread, I copy and pasted Mechbergs response to the situation -

#122 Posted : 2 days ago
Hi folks,

I wanted to let you know that we’ve been following this thread closely and that we do recognize the issues that players have brought up with Monza being used in qualifying for Week 1 of the ForzaRC. While our goal was to bring this track back into competitive use with our recent content update, clearly there is more work to be done. With that in mind, I’d like to apologize for any frustration this has caused.

To be clear, we will be using the track limits as defined in Forza Motorsport 6 for our qualifying Rivals events. However, for this weekend’s Week 1 Cup and Week 1 Showdown events with ESL, we will be running a different track – the Nürburgring GP.

Thanks,
Brian

Edited by user Thursday, August 11, 2016 11:11:17 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi 😛
Rank: X-Class Racing License
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#2 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 9:04:50 AM(UTC)
It's a shame the track limits are so exploitable at Monza but it's a competition, don't complain at people for adapting to a developer error.

Partially ashamed to say I did it myself but it's technically not illegal.

Twitter: @RyHirons
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#3 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 9:22:38 AM(UTC)
T10 certainly can't stay quiet on this one. If they allow the cut they're going to have to say so publically and just take it on the chin when they receive thousands of protests and complaints from people who don't want to cut it, and if they disallow it they're going to have to wipe the board so that those who already cut it can go back and set a time without cutting.

It's a total mess, and it's mind-boggling that they've got themselves into this mess after having the same problem with the same track during the Trofeo season.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#4 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 9:26:24 AM(UTC)
It should be if they don't have the manpower to view each replay to see if you have at least 2 tires on the track at all times (TORA "THEONLINERACINGASSOCIATION.COM" has done this successfully) then ask the community to do it for you by reporting it to a turn 10 member but it's also very sad that turn 10 members are also running it this way so basically saying screw all clean racers
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#5 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 9:28:27 AM(UTC)
[Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D]. I thought how it was setup is cool but now that I know that everyone is cheating I and I assume quite a few people will just not try. Turn 10 can you just send us our '71 GTHO and give the car to whoever normally wins and start over?

Edited by user Monday, August 8, 2016 12:46:56 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 9:30:13 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RABIDUS RAGE Go to Quoted Post
It should be if they don't have the manpower to view each replay to see if you have at least 2 tires on the track at all times (TORA "THEONLINERACINGASSOCIATION.COM" has done this successfully) then ask the community to do it for you by reporting it to a turn 10 member but it's also very sad that turn 10 members are also running it this way so basically saying screw all clean racers


Yeah that's bad lol. I knew this competition was "Many will enter, you will not win."

Which is a shame honestly.
Rank: On the Podium
#7 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 9:56:38 AM(UTC)
All ESL says is that it must be a valid replay.

As long as you got that and a clean lap, you're good to go.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#8 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 9:57:34 AM(UTC)
If Forza allowes some corners at Monza to be cut and still count as a clean lap,
isn't that a contradiction on what the ESL rules state?

2.11. Race Etiquette

Race etiquette rules will be enforced in all Elite Series matches. Intentional damage including, but not limited to, ringing, faking, pitting, obstruction of other vehicles, ramming, and cutting tracks may result in immediate forfeit of participation and prizing for a period of 12 months.

The violation of race etiquette will be at the sole determination of Turn 10 and ESL with a valid replay.

http://play.eslgaming.co...ason-1-elite-cup-1/rules
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 9:58:32 AM(UTC)
Just watched the replay, I can't belive how much you can take. I'm going to be doing the cuts until I hear otherwise from an official source.

This really does throw a shadow of doubt over the whole tournament. Most people will be under the impression just as I am that these cuts are clean and can be used in a race. I need to read the rules on esl but if it says that you can't cut as appose to 2 wheels on the track at all times then technically these are not cuts. Can anyone clarify this?

All in all a bad start to ForzaRC

Just read the post above mine so technically these are not cuts and can be used in the race as they are clean lines......Oh dear

Edited by user Monday, August 8, 2016 10:06:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#10 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 10:40:11 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: LSR Wizard Go to Quoted Post
So apparently people are opening tickets against the top drivers because of the chicane at monza. It's not our faults, it's T10 for not fixing the tracks properly. What ever is clean is clean. Yeah I would not cut the chicane but if everyone else is doing it then we all have to. The rules on the site are a little vague, and I'm hoping someone from T10 or esl can confirm this to get an official word. I assume the rules only apply to the races it's self and not the rival events. I think this because if you look back at Formula E, when they did Long beach east everyone took the dirty line that was clean if you hit it right. (Cutting over the curb at the 1st corner) I'm just going to wait a little bit to set my lap and see how things pan out.


TL:DR, "I know im a cheater but the game says its okay so i'll do it"

For real, go and run an actual race event in the real world and see how quick you get penalties, fines and then your license stripped for being a cheat.

People saying it would be too hard to police are right, but if everyone raced fairly and didn't purposely exploit track limits, it would be far easier to view to top replays and disqualify those that do.


Sets a bad precedent for forza when they stream the finals and everyone that got there knowingly exploited the game to do so.

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 10:46:47 AM(UTC)
Maybe they should have picked a track you can't "cleanly" exploit. It unfortunate but if the game calls it clean I would guess it is. Really doesn't matter for most of us who can't get top 128 times anyway. "Clean" exploit or not lol

Edited by user Monday, August 8, 2016 10:51:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 10:53:49 AM(UTC)
Unfortunately it is what it is. I don't see them patching the track and wiping the leader board to fix it right now. the only thing I can see being viable is going through the replays of the top 128 and forfeiting anyone seen cutting at the end of qualifying. But I don't see that happening either.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 10:59:28 AM(UTC)
Is not about being able to read each the top 128. Is about the principle. Basically saying cheating is acceptable. How hard is dirty any lap where more than two wheels are outside the white lines?
Peoblem would be highly mitigated.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 11:12:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: oscarolim Go to Quoted Post
Is not about being able to read each the top 128. Is about the principle. Basically saying cheating is acceptable. How hard is dirty any lap where more than two wheels are outside the white lines?
Peoblem would be highly mitigated.


This is true, because if you were not able to cut the results would still be the same. And apparently from hearing nothing can be done about it. What's clean is clean.
Hi 😛
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#15 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 11:15:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: X Mr Plankton X Go to Quoted Post

For real, go and run an actual race event in the real world and see how quick you get penalties, fines and then your license stripped for being a cheat.


If it wasn't allowed, we wouldn't do it, genius.

Also, go take a look at some clips of the video from the IMSA race at COTA on the Motorsport Facebook page. IMSA decided they weren't going to police track limits, so people ran as wide as they wanted - sometimes 3-4 car widths outside the limits. If that's not a prime example of an organizer deciding what is allowed, then I don't know what is.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 11:25:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: deadlycowpat95 Go to Quoted Post
It's a shame the track limits are so exploitable at Monza but it's a competition, don't complain at people for adapting to a developer error.

Partially ashamed to say I did it myself but it's technically not illegal.

I'm here with you... im ashamed I've done it too... never done it before on rivals or online but this is a competition and as slow and bad a driver i am im in it to win it and if people are adapting to this error then I don't see why I can't. I know it's not the moral thing to do but morals won't get me qualified unfortunately.

Edited by user Monday, August 8, 2016 1:17:47 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#17 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 11:29:10 AM(UTC)
Project Cars invalidate every lap that you cross over the track limits which is not confirming your lap time to leader board and the game is extremely more realistic in this matter and just because one organization allows it does that mean all the others are going to do so as well? I highly think Indy NASCAR won't be allowing this as they have done so much to be totally against it so once again cheaters always prosper according to turn 10
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#18 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 11:32:48 AM(UTC)
Cheaters always prosper? No, sorry. You're dead wrong on that one. If the cut wasn't allowed, I guarantee the top page would have the same names on it. Quit deluding yourselves and accept that it's allowed already. If you don't like it, too bad. Personally, I could still be top 30 right now even without a cut, but if you can't do it, wait until next week for a "fair" playing field.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#19 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 11:41:00 AM(UTC)
I've sent a message to the support team at esl to verify if they are going to allow this to continue as it is their name on this not turn 10 hopefully a response will return quickly
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#20 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 11:46:23 AM(UTC)
I'm with you on this one Harmonic. There is a reason why we all keep on seeing the same people in every competition. It is because we are the fastest in the game regardless of whether or not a track has clearly defined limits. IMO it is just a poor track choice by T10. The same people would still be at the top of the leaderboards even with proper track limits.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#21 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 11:46:38 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: LMR Harmonic Go to Quoted Post
Cheaters always prosper? No, sorry. You're dead wrong on that one. If the cut wasn't allowed, I guarantee the top page would have the same names on it. Quit deluding yourselves and accept that it's allowed already. If you don't like it, too bad. Personally, I could still be top 30 right now even without a cut, but if you can't do it, wait until next week for a "fair" playing field.


Your in TORA same with raceboy and countless others and I know y'all race clean and are still fast as hell but you doing it because it's allowed just saying its obviously turn 10's way of saying it because look at all the garbage we get in league play with people cutting every corner possible where the rest of us actually drive the track and nothing ever gets done about it
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#22 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 11:53:17 AM(UTC)
Seems I'm doomed before I even start...
I don't know the " track limits " at Monza ( or anywhere else ), so I'm at a disadvantage to those who do. While they can get a clean ( dirty ) lap, my times suffer because I don't know how to cheat.

Seems it's a mess already, and I was looking forward to it and all.

Edited by user Monday, August 8, 2016 11:54:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#23 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 12:19:54 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FragileDavid1 Go to Quoted Post
Seems I'm doomed before I even start...
I don't know the " track limits " at Monza ( or anywhere else ), so I'm at a disadvantage to those who do. While they can get a clean ( dirty ) lap, my times suffer because I don't know how to cheat.

Seems it's a mess already, and I was looking forward to it and all.


It is not hard to learn them at all... Just look at a replay from one of the top times.
Rank: Racing Permit
#24 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 12:59:06 PM(UTC)
T10 is going to have to say something and change something quick or leave it how it is. I feel it'll just be left how it is. The leaderboard isn't going to magically change with the cuts policed out. It'll end up being the same rankings with the average time just being lower. I'm doing the cuts and would still need to shave a full second off my time to be in the top 10. Im positive it would be the same without the cuts.

Edited by user Monday, August 8, 2016 1:01:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#25 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 1:29:19 PM(UTC)
I like many on here am really disappointed by the way this has turned out with track exploitations. It has become a game of constantly looking up at the timer to see whether the game thought you cut the corner too much or whether you got away with it, which isn't a fun way at all to be trying to find those extra tenths.
A blanket four wheels beyond the kerb penalty would make it black and white for everybody.

Surely it's embarrassing for the devs to have these top leaderboard replays out in the open as the "best times" at monza in a racing simulation game, it makes the game look ridiculous.

I'm personally going to wait a bit before trying to improve on my clean 2.08 in the hopes the competition surely can't remain this way
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