This site uses cookies for analytics and personalized content. By continuing to browse this site, you agree to this use. Learn more
2 Pages12Next
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#1 Posted : Saturday, July 30, 2016 8:47:11 PM(UTC)
Is new Jag better than old Jag?
[img]2012JagCompPic1 by TarryVariable1, on Flickr[/img]

[img]2009JagCompPic1 by TarryVariable1, on Flickr[/img]
I challenged myself to tame a couple beasts. I hope I did an ok job on tuning the 2012 Jaguar XKR-S to be a close match to the 2009 Jaguar XKR-S. If you think there is something I can do to better tame these beasts, like for example maybe changing the gearing, please let me know. Also like to know any interesting facts about the real life cars. For example I believe the 2009 Jaguar has a V8 engine and the 2012 has a V6. Well anyway I would like your feedback about what you think of these 2 Jaguars. Now if you want to beat my times I did a lap around Hockenheimring Full in the 2009 Jaguar in 2:10.064 and in the 2012 Jaguar I got 2:08.781. Beat my time or not I am offering 25 million credits for participating. Tunes and designs are in my storefront for free. Hope you have fun helping me tame these beasts.

Edited by user Sunday, August 21, 2016 12:55:31 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#2 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2016 6:29:22 PM(UTC)
Tunes are great and the Jdog paints are super sweet ;] It would appear to me though, that for me, the older Jaguar is my top choice...

09 Jag - 1:54.091


aa

12 Jag - 1:54.347


aa

The exhaust sound from both is SWEET ;] May have a run again in both to see what more I can do - Thanks for the challenge, Tarry ;]
sig box
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#3 Posted : Sunday, July 31, 2016 6:39:02 PM(UTC)
All Jaguar XKs use V8s, and all XKRs use supercharged V8s. No V6s.

Bigtime Muscle Member | Now on One!
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Monday, August 1, 2016 8:18:28 PM(UTC)
Thanks Kool, very glad to hear that you like the tunes. I got some advice from friends that help me make some changes to the tunes. Nice Pictures Kool. Oh, ya thanks for mentioning that designs are by Jdog. Knew I forgot to add something to opening post. Ya I like the sound of the Jags too.

Yakov Alfa, Thanks for clearing up the details about the engines. Hope to see you participate.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#5 Posted : Monday, August 1, 2016 9:45:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TarryVariable1 Go to Quoted Post
Yakov Alfa, Thanks for clearing up the details about the engines. Hope to see you participate.

Would love to, but I can't. I've played Forza so much that I ended up with carpal tunnel, so trying to drive is really painful. It's why I suddenly stopped participating in comps back in February.

There's a reason the game manuals say to take frequent breaks. I had to find out why the hard way, as usual. Lol

Bigtime Muscle Member | Now on One!
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Wednesday, August 3, 2016 4:35:48 PM(UTC)
Sorry to hear about your carpal tunnel Yakov Alfa. I wonder if the cars have tire pressure monitoring and other features to assist the driver to have a smooth ride?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Thursday, August 4, 2016 10:52:46 AM(UTC)
I built both Jags and tested them on Hokenheim Ring.
I had better results in the 2012 Jag with a best lap of 1:52.808 on lap #2. My personal best on this track.
I saved the replay and will upload it later

The 2009 Jag has understeer and effected my turning on the hairpins.
I use ABS braking due to my MS FF wheel and pedals.

My best time in the 09 Jag was a 1:59.579.

I rebuilt the 09 Jag and added Race tires and a few other things. and got a 1:54.003 with the PI at S700.
I'm going to try to get the 09 Jag to the 2012 specs with Race tires to see what happens.
The Pi may change to R# though.

2009 Jag with a 1:59.579 lap.
09JagComp1

2012 Jag with a best lap of 1:52.808
'12JagComp1

I rebuilt the 2009 Jag and tuned it using the Forza 4 Tuning Calc.
I was getting laps in the 1:53's

Here is the tune
Forza 4 Motorsport - Vehicle Summary


Tire Pressure:
Front: 28.5
Rear: 28.5

Gearing:
Final Drive: 3.50
1st: 2.89
2nd: 1.93
3rd: 1.45
4th: 1.16
5th: 0.97
6th: 0.83
:
Alignment:
Front Camber: -0.8 °
Rear Camber: -0.8 °
Front Toe: 0.1 °
Rear Toe: -0.1 °
Caster: 6.3 °

Anti-roll Bars: Set RB's to the max of 40/40
Front: 62.80
Rear: 58.90

Springs:
Front: 951.5
Rear: 846.0

Ride Height:
Front: 4.2
Rear: 4.1

Rebound: Set the Rebound to the Max of 12/12
Front: 12.7
Rear: 14.6

Bump:
Front: 5.7
Rear: 6.5

Aero: I used the Stock settings. of 75 /137
Front: 85
Rear: 163

Braking:
Balance: 51%
Pressure: 146%

Differential:

Rear:
Accel: 15%
Decel: 27%

Edited by user Thursday, August 4, 2016 1:47:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"Unofficial Senior Citizen" of Forza Motorsport
"Still racing at 81 years Young. Will it ever end?"
Wheel You have been a member since:
Friday, July 15, 2005 3:39:56 PM
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Thursday, August 4, 2016 4:46:25 PM(UTC)
Thanks TomCat for sharing your times, photos, and tune that worked best for you. I guess I don't mind if I get advice on tuning the cars in A class, S class, and R3 class, but I would like to get some more advice on how to improve the tune on the cars in S class first. I am eager to learn how to tune better in Forza 4. Hope to see some more participants.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:15:58 PM(UTC)
Ok so, I finally(!) got around to trying your '09 Tarry - Not bad ;^) low 1:53's ...and it does have some more in it ;^)

What would I change? perhaps my biggest concern - It spins the tires A Lot. The Good News is - Even when I'm not being gentile on the throttle, it does not really loose it's direction. I am not all over the place trying to catch up with the rear end! but you can probably improve it's time if you can lessen the wheel spin. (you probably use TC, I do not) I'd look at upping the Diff, changing the gearing (it seemed really low in 1st and uneven between changes), and backing way off on the break pressure. Again, you may be using assists... ABS - same as with the TC... I do not. And this one seems tuned for Assists, TC and ABS - which is fine... and perhaps I should go back to Hockenheimring and run a few more laps with Assists on? ;^)

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Thursday, August 4, 2016 6:01:19 PM(UTC)
A 18/18 diff is ideal in my experience. Good turn in and very predictable transitions. Traction out of turns is also very good and any wheelspin is manageable. Going above that number usually makes the back end step out sooner, and you have less turn in. And going below usually starts to cause one wheel to get more power, causing extremely unpredictable oversteer, and wasting potential acceleration through wheelspin; it can also cause the rear to kick out on entry. Finally, setting the accel and decel differently will almost always make the car extremely unpredictable during transitions (eg: from accelerating to braking), so I highly recommend keeping the numbers nearly, or completely the same (eg: 18/18 rather than 20/10).

Tire pressure is also massively important. I've found that 35PSI when hot is ideal. I've gotten cars that drove like total garbage at 34PSI to drive like I had added downforce at 35PSI. Going over or below 35PSI will almost always have negative effects on handling, more so if you go over (eg: 34.5PSI is better than 35.5PSI).

Unfortunately, a lot of tuning is personal preference. What I consider perfect someone else could hate, and vice versa. Just play with all of the different settings individually and you'll slowly but surely figure out what every little adjustment does. Also run a track with lots of different turns and elevation changes, like Mazda Laguna Seca or Catalunya (the latter being my go-to track for perfecting a car's balance/solving understeer and oversteer).

Bigtime Muscle Member | Now on One!
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:12:17 PM(UTC)
Thanks Leek and Yakov Alfa for the advice. Great time Leek. I wonder how many laps around Mazda Laguna Seca would I have to drive to get the wheels hot. Does it usually take about 15 laps to get the wheels hot? I am also wondering, is the 2012 Jag a downloadable content?

Edited by user Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:15:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Thursday, August 4, 2016 7:31:28 PM(UTC)
By lap 3 your tires will be at racing temps, but I always focus on adjusting other parts of the car, then get to the tires at the end of lap 5. A few degrees can make a difference in PSI, so wait until lap 5 if you're really trying to perfect a tune. I'd always end up spending at least an hour on each tune, so not running enough laps was never a problem for me. Usually had 30 to 40 laps in by the time I had decided a tune was finished. Lol

And yes, the '12 Jaguar is DLC.

Bigtime Muscle Member | Now on One!
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Friday, August 5, 2016 8:57:17 PM(UTC)
Thanks Yakov Alfa. Hopefully I'll get some time this weekend to improve my tunes. DangNabbit hope I don't lose participants because a car is a DLC.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Saturday, August 6, 2016 12:37:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TarryVariable1 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Yakov Alfa. Hopefully I'll get some time this weekend to improve my tunes.

Good luck bud. : )

Quote:
DangNabbit hope I don't lose participants because a car is a DLC.

I honestly don't think it matters; the non-DLC comps have been just as inactive. : /

Bigtime Muscle Member | Now on One!
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Sunday, August 7, 2016 12:23:18 PM(UTC)
Tarry, I hope you don't mind! ;^), but I took your build for the 2009 XKR-S and reset all of the settings to stock, Default Forza - was careful to match the build, and then I only changed the following:

Tires, 31.0 psi, F & R

Camber: -0.7 F / (-0.5 R, = Default)

Anti-roll bars: 11.0 F / 7.30 R
(might be interesting to drop the ARBs even lower! try... 2.40 F / 1.60 R - ?!)

Aero: 77 F / 75 R

Diff Accel: 100%
Diff Decel: 66%
(just to be contrary - 'cause sometimes you just wana Kick-It! ;^)

As I said, I left everything else at their stock, Default Forza settings; transmission, ride height, springs, damping... All = Default Forza, and... I reduced my time by over 1 second per lap.


It may be, again "interesting", me thinks, if you were to drop in a 2013 Shelby GT500 FD & Transmission(?!):

Final Drive: 3.31
1st: 2.66
2nd: 1.82
3rd: 1.30
4th: 1.00
5th: 0.77
6th: 0.50


Happy Tuning!
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Monday, August 8, 2016 7:23:09 AM(UTC)
Thanks Yakov, Ya Forza 4 activity is slowing down to almost a stop.
Thanks Leek, I'll try to get back to tuning soon. Last weekend I was too busy, hopefully this weekend I'll have some time to tune.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Tuesday, August 16, 2016 5:26:45 PM(UTC)
Hey guys could use your help. I am working on adjusting the tire pressure and was wondering if after 10 laps is it normal for the tire wear to be at 57 percent or should I lower my tire pressure settings?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Tuesday, August 16, 2016 6:47:19 PM(UTC)
You must be using drag tires if they're wearing that fast, because I used to do endurance racing and I could run for an hour and not need new tires. Lol

As far as I know, tuning adjustments won't change tire wear or fuel usage, simply because Forza doesn't simulate any of that in depth. I would just run cosmetic damage and forget about it.

Bigtime Muscle Member | Now on One!
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#19 Posted : Wednesday, August 17, 2016 12:13:47 AM(UTC)
*Wanders in fashionably late*

Ah fiddlesticks, a DLC car!

I enjoyed your hybrid challenge a lot, bummer to miss this one, but I look forward to your next challenge. Happy racin everyone!
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#20 Posted : Wednesday, August 17, 2016 4:57:24 PM(UTC)
Thanks Yakov, you are correct I am using drag tires. I am thinking of using a different tire compound.

gsxrboy750au, actually you are not to late to enter this comp. Sorry that 2012 Jag is a DLC. I am working on improving the tunes and could use any feedback you can give me on the 2009 Jag. Later I will add my improved tunes in my storefront and hopefully you guys will help me out by posting your best times with beginning tunes and new tunes. Hopefully everyone will get better times with new tunes. Maybe I should of named the comp Help me tame a couple beasts.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Wednesday, August 17, 2016 11:06:07 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TarryVariable1 Go to Quoted Post
...feedback you can give me on the 2009 Jag...


No props Tarry, I'll give the 2009 cat a quick spin tonight and report back with time and my very unedumakated thinks etc.

2009 Jaguar time (Hockenheimring Full) beginning tune - 1:53:477

It's peppy! I drive with TCS off so she lights up a fair bit from down low, sometimes using a gear higher helps control a bit of spin but at the expense off drive. Car tracks truly though with a hint of understeer on throttle closed through fast corners. With TCS on I was several seconds faster.

I'm more used to my elite controller now so a 360 controller looses a little feel for me which will slow me down a tinsy bit, plus lack of skill :-p

Another enjoyable car to drive, cheers! I'll have another go a bit later and get a photo up, which I forgot this time... Got hungry :)

TarryJagHok

Edited by user Friday, August 19, 2016 4:31:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:58:26 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gsxrboy750au Go to Quoted Post
*Wanders in fashionably late*

Got just about all of the old gang back together again. ; )

Originally Posted by: TarryVariable1 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Yakov, you are correct I am using drag tires. I am thinking of using a different tire compound.

Yeah, drag tires wear really quickly. I would avoid using them whenever possible, because while they do allow you to increase your max lateral Gs without adding too much PI, they also screw up the handling of any car you put them on. Your brakes become very unresponsive, the car will understeer horribly on corner entry, and the car will slide wide mid turn without actually losing traction. You will have excellent traction on corner exit though. Some leaderboard car builds use drag tires to exploit the PI system and pull cars from higher classes down into lower classes (for example, a NASCAR Cup car in S-Class rather than R3), but these builds are always fairly tricky to drive.

I forgot to mention before, differential settings are different between AWD, RWD, and FWD cars.

When tuning a FWD car your accel setting controls how much torque steer you have (eg: 100 accel will give you the least torque steer), and the decel setting controls your lift off oversteer (eg: 100 decel should eliminate lift off oversteer). I typically ran 100 accel and between 30 to 50 decel, which would usually minimize torque steer and lift off oversteer while still allowing for decent turn in.

When tuning an AWD car you combine your FWD and RWD settings, but with a couple tweaks. For the front diff you wanna run as close to 100 accel as possible without making the car twitchy (eg: if the car is too snappy when turning, slowly reduce the accel number until the front is more stable. 95 is usually as low as I would have to go). The front decel I would almost always leave at 0, as any lift off oversteer issues are usually solved by adjusting the rear diff settings. Speaking of that... For the rear diff you want to use the same settings as you would a RWD car, so in my case 18 accel and 18 decel. And finally, you want to adjust your torque split so that the car rotates (turns) through a corner quickly, without the back end stepping out. This will vary by car, so start around 70% torque to the rear and work from there. If you're getting FWD-like torque steer and the back end isn't stepping out, put more power to the rear (eg: 75% torque split). If you're getting RWD-like oversteer put more power to the front (eg: 65% torque split). Just to recap, my AWD diff settings would often look like this: (front) 100 accel/0 decel - (rear) 18 accel/18 decel - (torque split) 70%

Hopefully this will be of some use to you.

Bigtime Muscle Member | Now on One!
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#23 Posted : Thursday, August 18, 2016 3:59:49 PM(UTC)
Thanks gsxrboy750au and Yakov for your advice. Thanks for all of your guys advice. I'll try to finish the improved tune for the 2009 Jag this weekend. Nice picture gsxrboy750au.

gsxrboy750au I am glad that you enjoyed the hybrid challenge. I will try to add a hybrid car or two to the next challenge idea.

Update new tunes for the Jaguars are in my storefront, please check them out. Thanks to Jdog there is a design you can put on the Jaguars to help you not get confused with which tune you have on the Jaguars.

2009 Jag design free in my storefront
[img]JagCompPartDesign2Pic1 by TarryVariable1, on Flickr[/img]

2012 Jag design free in my storefront
[img]2012JagPart2DesignPic1 by TarryVariable1, on Flickr[/img]

Edited by user Sunday, August 21, 2016 12:50:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Monday, August 22, 2016 3:46:05 PM(UTC)
Thanks Tarry, I'll give the new tune and paint a go this week :)

Edit-

I struggled more in braking with this tune and the rear end spin moved up the rev range it feels like. Understeer was less for me as per previous comment. Lap time wise I was probably a tad faster with the new tune maybe. New paint looks trick!

I'll have another go on the weekend if I can as I ran this with no sound so I might have missed feel due to that sense missing.

TarryJag2

Edited by user Tuesday, August 23, 2016 4:40:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#25 Posted : Tuesday, August 23, 2016 4:19:23 PM(UTC)
Thanks gsxrboy750au for trying out new tune. With the braking I was trying to find a setting that was not too tight and not too loose. Hopefully with more practice you can get under 1:53. Hopefully Jdog is happy that people like his designs. Thanks Jdog for all the designs that you did for BigTime Muscle challenges. I hope some more people will try out the new tunes.
2 Pages12Next

Notification

Icon
Error