Forums

That's nothing to do with the viewpoint itself, that is the rig not being lined up correctly. If the cockpit view is as it is in the e3 demo, then as long as your screen is sitting correctly behind your wheel Base, and your wheel is the correct height, and seat in the correct position it works perfectly, on all racing games. Even dirt rallys close up dash cam that is not customisable works perfectly with a correctly lined up rig. Lastly sometimes a wheel might seem incorrectly placed just from your viewpoint or anyone's who are not sitting on the rig itself. It may very well loom fine to him. Or indeed a 7 feet tall monster couldve set it up. Lol

Seems to me like they just threw it together for e3, getting the position of the seat, wheel and screen correct takes quite a while, longer than actually getting the fov and in game seat position correct on the other games that allow it.

A dirt rally close dash cam would actually be perfectly acceptable for wheel users to be honest. Yes we would miss.seeing all the dashboard clocks but it would be a comprise in the right direction

TES... Like DIRT, F1 2016, pCARS, and AC....! This is simply T10/PG being focused on GP users.... Who usually on run behind car or bumper/bonnet view. All of which are very unrealistic....! I hope they offer this, but I'm willing to bet not only will it not be an option, it will not be an option in the FM7 / FH4 releases

Thats not true at all its all completelt dependent on your eye distand from your monitors viewing angle (should be straight on) and the size of your monitors. What works for your setup vs mine is not going to be the same even if we both put the monitor right behind the wheel as you say.

thats exactly what im saying, its completely true. its far from perfect, but more than usable. you adjust your rig depending on your screen size, equipment, seat position and eye level according to your height. but when its all setup, we could all use the same close dash cam and get near perfect results.

if this wasnt the case i wouldnt be able to get decent times on dirt rally, im in the top 5 on some tracks, all using the close dash cam

Adjustable FoV isn't just for wheel users. Anyone playing in a 1st-person view benefits from adjustable FoV because your brain is better at judging (interpreting) depth and speed in a scene when the FoV is correct, and what "correct" is depends on the size of your monitor and your distance from it.

It's not even a subjective preference, there's a formula; 2 * arctan (0.5 * w / d) where w is the screen width and d is the distance from screen. On that formula the focus area of your view will be naturalistic and you'll be able to judge speed and distance much better. The trade off is that it also dictates how much of the cockpit you can see.

Unfortunately most developers treat FoV purely as an aesthetic choice and a way of adjusting how much cockpit is visible, and since most players want to see a lot of cockpit most developers set it too wide, and so anyone who wants it to be "correct" can only fix it by physically moving closer to the screen. Which is fine if you have a huge TV and don't mind sitting right in front of it, but not much use if you have a small TV or you can't put your face any closer to it.

An adjustable FoV caters to both those who want their focus area to be naturalistic and don't care so much about their peripheral vision, as well as those who want to see the whole interior and don't care so much about accurate depth and speed perception. A single, one-size-fits-all setting, can never do this.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 14, 2016 1:47:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

It is not impossible to be fast without it. As zedeeyen says below there is a correct fov for each setup. Even tho it may be "near perfect" for you does not mean it will even be remotely close for me. Do you honestly think someone who is 6'8" tall and as such eyes are 45" from a 23" screen is going to be the same as someone 5' tall sitting 20" from a 60" monitor? You use fov to make it so you have a 1:1 representation from you to whats on screen.

So dissapointed that there's no FOV or POV in H3...

I know perfectly well how to use fov in games to achieve the perfect view. But I know from previous responses from turn 10 that we will not get the option to change fov in forza titles as the console cannot handle the extra content on screen. Maybe if they unlocked the res and fps like pcars but at the moment no.

My point was about the close up dash cam, if your screen is directly behind the wheel Base it works just fine, again it's far from perfect but it would be much better.

And yes it would work regardless of your height, as you then adjust the height of your screen, wheel and position of seat to accommodate your size. I'm well over 6 feet tall and it works fine on my rig, but I do have a fully adjustable screen stand that sits over the wheel and pedals etc.

Obviously the size on your screen plays a big part, again though you can remedy it by changing the height if you do not have the fov option

Edited by user Wednesday, September 14, 2016 10:39:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

https://youtu.be/X7prYrsxw6Y

https://youtu.be/yN47f9NpMEU

Don't usually do this as I'm no fan of my own but here are a few vids a made a while back when I first started setting up the rig. Room wasn't even decorated lol.

Dirt rally close up cam, no fov option or any way to customise the view, alot better than forzas cockpit view.

And the pcars vid was made just to show my brothers the viewpoint with the adjusted fov, obviously I would love this in forza, not going to happen though, so the close up cam would be a very close much appreciated second choice if they added it

Edited by user Wednesday, September 14, 2016 10:57:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

When did turn 10 say anything about fov, i thought they ignored the requests as per usual. I know they were asked about it during the e3 demo and said something like theyd look into it or something.

Having that dash view would not effect framerates but it may highlight some low res textures not that i see any in the cockpit view but its possible there is. The other thing could be the lighting system they use might be an issue.

Odds are it comes down to a time/money thing. Forzas being on a 2 year cycle seems to stunt any real change in many parts of the games. If you look at forza 5 and 6 as well as horizon 2 and 3 many things are a straight up copy paste job. Its certainly not because it's perfect already, its just not worth the effort for them to change things.

As almost any long term Forza fan does, I love to play the game with all assists off and always cockpit view for that closer to realism feel. However it seems that with every new addition of Forza, Turn 10 are doing their best to ruin the experience. Why do they do this to us?

They create a game with beautiful graphics, great play ability, and interiors that aren't really rivalled in any other game. So you select cockpit view and all of a sudden the fun disappears!

You now feel claustrophobic from the ridiculous FOV where half the screen is roof and dash (seriously, who's arms are long enough to sit that far back in reality?). All that amazing lighting they put so much time into, becomes a mass of blacks and greys. I won't even go into the rain animation on the windscreen, but the worst thing of all. What happened to the sound? from the outside cams the cars sound amazing. You go into cockpit and they become a muffled mess where even the radio overpowers the engine note (Yes I have engine on max and radio set low). OK, if they're going for realism, let us wind the windows down or something so we can hear the engine properly. But why make cockpit so much less fun to use when it should ultimately be the best way to play the game?

I've seen posts regarding FOV and removing the wheel animation but I'm starting to think it's much deeper than that and the whole thing needs a review.

Moan over but surely I can't be the only one that feels this way?

Hello,
first of all sorry for my english, it is not my mother toungue language.
I kindly asked a moderator if i could open a thread about this subject. I didn't recieved any reply, so I am assuming that silence gives consent.
I think the following is a very serious thing, and need more investigation and hopefully some answers from Playground Games as well.

Foreword:
Field of view (a.k.a. FOV) and seat positioning (a.k.a. POS) are the most important factors for any racing hardcore videogamer (those who play with a wheel peripheral device and using the cockpit view).
They are as much important as it would be the A.I. of the enemies in a first person shooter.
The FOV is the lens aperture size of the point of view, we can say, in a half-mistaken and approximate way, it is like a zoom factor. Increasing FOV the view will be wider, like you are shooting a panoramic picture with your mobile. Decreasing it the view will be tighter and your sight will be focused on a smaller area of the track. It also helps a lot to get a better speed effect. To be super-meticulous there is also an arithmetical formula to calculate the right FOV degrees, in relationship of the screen size and how far it is from the wheel and your eyes.
POS is easier to understand, it is simply the X, Y, Z position of the driver's eyes in relation of the car itself.

The point:
During E3 2016 Playground Games showed a demonstration of FH3, with a setup on a mechanical moving seat, with a top notch wheel device. In all likelihood the hardware was a PC. It was outstanding to play, literarly jaw dropping.
For a better immersion they setup the in-game FOV and POS in a perfect way to play with a wheel.
Here is a picture that clearly shows it:



Link to the video: https://youtu.be/Ktdo_XNYpws?t=5m38s

As you can see, the FOV is wide enough to get a good sense of speed and track view. The POS is perfectly positioned in such a way that the real wheel is the actual wheel. There are no in-game wheel, nor the driver's hands. This is the way a racing videogame is meant to be played with a wheel device. And if during E3 they choose to show it this way, ofcourse this means they know what I just said is the truth.
Now let's have a look at the demo came out last days.



Link to the video: https://youtu.be/oQV-sjdCLiY?t=2m22s

Here the cockpit view is the Forza classic one. FOV is thighter and the POS is way much more on the back.
The result is that you can see the wheel in-game, the driver's hands and FOV is thighter which gives you a bad sense of speed feeling.
This setup is good to play with a gamepad. Not with a wheel. For hundreds of reasons that I am not going to list, but developers know very well (I mention just one which is not the most important, but the most obvious: it is absolutely lame to play with a wheel device, and see the wheel in the game and driver's hands... :-) ).
It is a demo, ok, and only for the Xbox One at the moment, but in all probablity this will be the same view of the final game, on Xbox and on PC. Without the possibility to change FOV and POS, as every Forza game since the first one.
I also would like to mention the fact that users are forced to play the game with Xbox One compatible only wheels, even on PC. One could think "well ok, let's buy a new wheel for FH3, at least they will put more effort in developing wheel specific options"...
Someone here told me that Playground Games did adviced people that was a unique view setup only for the E3 demo and the final game will be different. In my personal case it wasn't said to me. And I can't find this information nowhere on the internet, not even via official channels ( here: http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/news/fm3_e3demo or here: http://forzamotorsport.net/en-US/news/FH3_Announce ). And when I asked "please could you kindly show me where this information is?", I got no answer.

My hope is that adjustable FOV and POS will be a feature in the final version (as for sure many other players hope).
This feature was always, and forever will be, a deal breaker for me, and for many other players. There is the option, I buy the game. Otherwise, I pass it with ease. No matter the goodness of the game.

And after this events, after we have seen something at E3, and something else extremely different in the demo, I honestly and humbly think that maybe we deserve a better explanation and some answers from Playground Games.
So, I kindly ask Playground Games if they can say just some words about this.

Thank so much for your attention, and have a nice day.

Edited by user Thursday, September 15, 2016 6:53:30 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I can't remember where I read it, however the question of "adjustable" FOV was asked, and the official response was "Stay Tuned."

It seems as though an adjustable FOV is in the works, and we may see it by the time the game is released.

The pic with the guy using the wheel that's driving the buggy, that version of the game was a special build only for E3. Also there is a whole thread with 3 pages on FOV and cockpit view. http://forums.forzamotor...and-cockpit-options.aspx

Edited by user Thursday, September 15, 2016 6:56:13 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi Soules Reaper,
as i wrote in the OP, could you kindly show us where did you read this news, or was it told to you by PlayGround Games themselves?
I know about that other thread, but here I am talking about something different, I am talking about real events, happenings, under everyone's eyes.

Thanks a lot for your interest.

Hi Canadian,
I think that after this a "stay tuned" is not exactlty an answer.

Thanks for your interest as well!

If they put in adjustable FOV/POV that would be great, even if it took an update! Then I could actually use Cockpit Cam closer to the dash/windshield. I can't get comfortable with the camera too far back.

The third post down by FordGTGuy posted this in is quote:

Videos that mention that the new FoV is just for E3 2016 motion setups and only a maybe for the full game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl-X18nzTSE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ktdo_XNYpws
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjAM1Uivl64

Thank you so much!
I missed them. It is said by *somebody-someone* on that video indeed. Nevertheless it doesn't sounds to me like an official statement (i.e. from PG Games).
Thanks a lot anyway, at least you made me listen to those words, even if it's not a developer speaking.

Edited by user Thursday, September 15, 2016 7:26:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Sir, pls show me the screenshots of the same cockpit/the same car and we'll talk =)

The car doesn't matter. Even in the buggy you will see the wheel, the hands, and seat pos farer and fov tighter...
Do you really think views will be different from car to car?!?!

^_^'''

Keep on pushing this if you would like.


P.S.: moving my thread made it no more reachable by PG Games, if they eventually wanted to reply.

Edited by user Thursday, September 15, 2016 8:04:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Lol. I tried to tell you that making a point about FOV and etc. was pretty much the same that was going on in this thread. Not being a "blank" about it but I did try and warn you :).
P.S. This isn't Playground Games forums its Turn10 so good luck trying to reach out to Playground Games on this site. Your best bet is Facebook or Twitter to reach them.

Edited by user Thursday, September 15, 2016 8:09:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

ye ok, look i just give up.
bye and thanks everybody for everything.

I'm pretty sure T10 stated that an option to change the FOV in F6 was not possible due to technical limitations, I guess with the game being locked to 1080p 60fps it was not possible.

I know FH3 is only 30fps, but maybe due to the massive map and destruction etc, again an FOV option is not possible.

Obviously the days will not want to shout about this before their game has released, but I think a close dash cam with no wheel would be a very reasonable middle ground to meet us wheel users at. And to be honest I can't see any technical limitations to stop it happening.

Never mind, looks like the will be another forza title I'll have to play with a controller

Increasing the fov will impact performance because more is being rendered and seen, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to reduce the fov a bit. And pov / seat positioning doesn't have to alter or change the fov and performance at all, just moves where the first person camera in the cockpit is situated. That alone could help most people out a great deal in finding the best cockpit view for their setup. And of course on PC they're offering an unlocked framerate option so they could also allow users to increase the fov there a bit if necessary.

I'd be fine with some pov adjustments only. up/down/forward/back/left/right like the seat positioning options in Dirt Rally or Project CARS. Or even just a few more cockpit pre-sets. It's always felt kind of crazy that racing and driving games like this have multiple external view choices but only one interior choice. It's like getting into any real car and not being able to adjust the seat to suit your driving needs. In reality it can be dangerous, in a video game it's just annoying.

Hello !

I want to adress an issue which bothers me somehow. Its the Fish eye effect caused by a very wide FOV in Hood cam and chase cam and as faster you go the more the camera zooms out.
In the other way the cockpit cam has a very narrow FOV compared to the others. So the depth of field is also distorted between the different cameras aswell as the sense of distance.

I wonder Play Ground Games, why are you doing it? Is it to create a greater sense of speed due to the 30fps limit? I would love to turn that effect of. And keep a steady FOV no matter how fast or slow I go. Or an adjustment in the options to set it for example to 90°. The most it bothers me going from cockpit to hood cam. The game feels then way too fast and objects appear alot further away.

So a possible option to lock the FOV to a certain degree would be very welcome.

Maybe something similar to the option we had in Horizon 1 which said Speed effects ON/OFF but it just removed the camera shake at high speeds.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 20, 2016 4:47:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified