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So tonight I was playing a bit of forza, and I really enjoy the camaro's especially the 2010 only to find out it was missing and replaced by a 2015 z/28.

Now don't get me wrong I love the new models as well like I like the older models, but why now keep all the models? I personally prefer a weaker camaro that way I could get it into the Lower tier races. The new models are powerful and fun too but they are so powerful that they don't qualify for lower tier races.

I know there was and interview when Dan Greenawalt or another T10 employee (if I'm not mistaking) that he pointed out that they rather give us the newer model and basically get rid of the older one that way we don't have duplicates of the same car (they are really not the same car visually).

But I don't see the issue. Yes they are the same model but they look different (some slightly different). In my opinion some of the older models look better. Let's take for example: 1st generation Genesis coupe. We can all agree that by far that Genesis looks better than the newer body style.

Tonight I counted 11 corvettes including the race cars...11!!

There's no problem with 11 corvettes by all means, I like variety, but what I don't get is the contradiction about multiples of the same model. I'm not bashing T10, I just don't see the point getting rid of the older models but then keep a dozen of the other models cause they are a bigger brand.

Car equally and fairness should be a presence this game regardless if that car is more famous. All models should stay in the game and not replaced in my opinion.

There are corvette fans just like there are camaro fans is my point and the same goes to all other car brands. If a bunch of those models stay then a bunch of the rest should stay it's only fair, and at the end the gamers have more options.

Thanks for the read.

Edit:
Some people think this is a wish list, this is not a wish list. I'm trying to understand the logic of getting rid of the older car models versus contradiction keeping a bunch of other car models

Please keep this post constructive and positive !

Edited by user Wednesday, April 6, 2016 4:20:51 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I feel the same, I miss the 2010 Camaro too.

Also, now we have 2 almost "same" Chargers and 3 or 4 "same" Mustangs. I´m not complaining and not wishlisting, but there is no sense at all to say "hey rather give us the newer model and basically get rid of the older one".

If they get rid of the old cars that's it for me then, I won't be buying anymore forza games if it's just got new cars.

Weak points through out. 11 Corvette models and only 2 are in the same gen. And those are still massively different. Then there's the CR.7, but that's different from the C7 Z06, and that replaced the 2014 Stingray. That's also why we don't have the C6 Z06 or GS anymore, but we have the ZR-1. Camaro is the same. We don't have the 1st gen Z/28, because we have the SS model. Also why they got rid of the 2010 SS, because we have that gens Z/28. If you wanna race in the lower tier get the SS Anniversary. Also, the newer Genesis is in the game because the older gen looked out dated and by comparison is weaker. I could go on and on about it with multiple models like the GT-R SpecV, the 2010 Ford GT500, Boss 429, 2013 Boss 302, and Dodge Challenger SRT. The Charger is there because the Hellcat wasn't in the game yet. Anything else to explain?

I absolutely agree with this thread! Why on earth did the C6 Z06 for example deleted!? That is / was one of the best cars to drive in Forza 4. The new one doesn't do it for me at all, ugly.
So many older models are gone, it's just bizarre.

Not only should the older models remain, but the V6 versions should also be in the game. No V6 Mustang or Camaros, but we have limos and SUVs.

Don't mean to be a nuisance, but the Challenger Hellcat was in the vanilla game. And there aren't any gen-5 Camaro's.

I see lots of opinion here and a rejection of T10's logic and capabilities, which is what makes posts like these just another wishlist posed as a question instead of a true inquiry. I don't have the impression that you would accept T10's answer even if it explained "because that car is more famous" or "they are the bigger brand" or "so we don't have duplicates of the same car." This is the second post I've seen today that argues for fairness but misses the fact that one person's sense of fairness disenfranchises another person's sense of fairness given that T10 obviously doesn't have unlimited resources and a shortcut through time. The time and budget spent on licensing and developing each car means some other car desired by another user is excluded. And even if the developers were free from contractual constraints and could include every car from every manufacturer's line from every generation and still justify the expense, Greenawalt's various interview statements reveal the challenge of balancing what players want with a game design that highlights iconic models and moments without losing the narrative in a sea of choice.
- No, we can't all agree that one generation of car x looks better than another, or even that looks is the only metric for wanting a car.
- Siding with a bigger brand is unfair to the players who want rarer models, and siding with the rarer models is unfair to those who want the more popular models.
- Siding with a base model is unfair to those who want the Hellcat version, and siding with those who want the biggest/fastest/best version of a car is unfair to those who want to race or build up a base version of a car, or want it due to reasons other than performance.
- Siding with a "one of each" approach is unfair to those who want more of a particular make or model or class or region or type, and vice versa.
- Siding with the "keep all previous cars" approach is unfair to the players who want a fresh roster, and vice versa.

If the Car Wishlist tally demonstrates anything, it's that there is no majority opinion; every opinion or wish is just one of many. The thousands of different user opinions have to be factored in with limited options, and in the end we get what we get and there will always be players who want what we don't have.

See also:
http://forums.forzamotor...-series.aspx#post_476022
http://forums.forzamotor...January.aspx#post_440937
http://forums.forzamotor...itted-from-the-game.aspx


The forum faces a similar challenge - if a page can only hold so many threads, and that number is significantly less than the number of forum users, what happens if each user wants an individual thread to highlight their own opinion?

Edited by user Wednesday, April 6, 2016 1:42:50 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I wouldn't accept "because that car is more famous (in OP's case, it isn't)" or "they are the bigger brand (they're both Chevy's)" although I will say that too many duplicates is a horrid thing. I would like to know personally why some cars were eliminated without a clear successor however.

If you're not going to accept the answer why should someone address the question?

I appreciate the reply Manteo, it was just a trend I saw in the game. Wasn't creating a wish list just didn't make sense to get rid off s body style but keep XXX amount of the others.

Take the jeep SRT8 for example. We only got one Cherokee SRT8 and we got 10 formula E cars and performance is exactly the same.

I guess my point was the older srt8 was very different from the new one, so why it was the old one replaced by the new one? why not keep them both ?

Edited by user Wednesday, April 6, 2016 3:20:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

What I meant to say by "bigger brand" was fan base.

The camaro was only an example. Other makes in the game I suffering from the same issue.

I think Manteo touched on the reason by pointing towards the limited resources available to model all cars and the licensing. Personally, I think licensing has a bigger impact on this than what one would think and I would imagine T10 has a different contract in place with each manufacturer negotiated to meet the demands of each of them, some of which could have a knock on effect to another. For instance, if Ferrari were to increase the cost for T10 to use their brand then cuts will be required somewhere. This could be a cut of a particular car from that brand or perhaps another brand. A license may only allow for 5 cars to be modelled and certain limitations on which ones. This would then factor into the decision as to which cars can be modelled from that brand. To ease this decision process T10 may have decided that in situations like this they will go with the newer model as the older model can be used in an older game.

This is purely speculation.

I agree. Although the reason we have 10 Formula E's is the fact T10 has the license for them. And to the best of my knowledge, every racing game I've played with cars with different liveries showed them as different cars, or the sponsors might get mad. Plus, it wouldn't take as long to make a new livery as to make a new car, so its not like they cost us nine cars in the final game.

Thanks for the reply clutch,

The Camaros 10' and 15' are the same generation but the front nose and the rear end even the base engine are different.

There are other car makes in the game there have duplicates as well.

I don't mind duplicates at all, but favoring other cars to "A less superior car" is not right in my opinion .

This may be totally hundred percent correct on the formula E cars!

Maybe the formula E cars was a bad example lol. There are other duplicates in the game from different makes.

Or maybe like Manteo said licensing. I'm just trying to point out my opinion on that whole logic.

:-)

Whoa whoa there cowboy, you came off kinda defensive there. I was just trying to understand the logic behind this :-)

First off thanks again for the reply and sorry for the delay. Was sleeping when you replied and when I woke up I had a 2 1/2 drive to work.

After reading your reply all it boils down too is Licensing, but even the then I'm still don't get why keep so many of one model but keep scrapping another car model older variant.

Maybe licensing for that model ?

I've often wondered why tunes made for one of these cars doesn't apply to each of the other ones. After all they're all the same car anyway. Same goes for V8 Supercars or duplicates in GT3 cars. I'm not a tuner, I'm the customer for tunes and sometimes it gets frustrating when you pick one out of five identical cars only to find there is a fast tune out there but it's only for one of the other examples of the same car.

I guess it goes to your point that as along as there is a different livery T10 MUST treat it as a different car.

But to the OP's issue, I didn't know that they were dropping cars as new ones were issued. I guess I haven't been attached so much to a particular car enough to notice this.

I don't get attached to any car, the only thing I'm attached to is this dam forza series lol (sarcasm)

I just have a good eye for what's missing and what's not. I also wish I knew how the licensing makes an older car model of the same type obsolete (being serious)

V6 downgrading would be a nice option but I think that's more of a features wish list:-)

http://forums.forzamotor...-Features-Wish-List.aspx

Edited by user Wednesday, April 6, 2016 6:52:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Not a nuisance. I love a good debate. The Challenger Hellcat replaces the SRT-8. I don't need both. There's no point. And yes, the 2015 Z/28 is a gen 5 Camaro. It came after the 2014 Facelift. It's built on the Zeta platform. The 2016 Camaro is the beginning of gen 6, being built on the Alpha platform.

Anytime! I love adding to the debate, because it is something that some people want addressed. My opinion though on duplicates of cars, but different trims, is that we just don't need them. Like, I don't need the SRT-8 if I have the Hellcat because I'm going to be racing the Hellcat more. The SRT-8 will just sit in my garage. Other than a facelift they look similar. And I, maybe speaking for myself or not, would rather have the newer model. The hype around the Hellcat and Z/28 is great and being able to drive them in the game is amazing because there's a chance I won't be able to in real life(Let's hope that turns out to be false).

Maybe they'll have a "retro" dlc season pass bringing back all the cars we miss from past Forzas. Every decision is a monetary decision regardless of what is said. It's a business.

What if they had it so for example in car select, you go to BMW "scroll" down to the M3 and then you can "scroll" left and right for different generations of the M3, would save time from going up and down through all the different BMWs to find an old M3 or new one. It would also add to the collection aspect of the game if they added more generations of the same models.

I’ve thought about this throughout the years and it sucks but to be honest it’s a business decision that T10 has to make. They have to pay for the rights to have each car in the game. So in order to keep operation cost down they have to remove some of the cars. I do agree and feel your pain when you can’t drive the car you want in the class you want because the model they provide is classed too high. (2013 Ford Shelby Cobra would be my example) The only options that I could think of to solve this would be:
1. Give us all the cars back and make less profit (not going to happen)
2. Give us more motor swaps that allow us to use the motor from the lower class version of the car.
3. Give us power restrictors so that we can lower the power levels. (a few other games have this option)
4. Supercharger/turbocharger delete option. (FM3/FM4)

Edited by user Wednesday, April 6, 2016 11:05:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified