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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2014 10:13:45 AM(UTC)
Recap; aka "Starting all over again from scratch"

Most of you race fans will remember this thread as a legacy post fom the old

forums before the update. Since the series was popular, and the thread had

over 130,000 views prior to the remodel, I will attempt to capture

the essence of it, by putting up unique pages from the thread.

Please feel free to comment, as in the old thread.

Here we go!

After browsing thru pages of "The Strip", I have not located a drag race league

with "pure stock" appearing muscle car dag racing.

Thats why I'm starting (edit: continuing) a series with muscle cars (vintage and late model),

that allows only changes to rear end ratios (sport trans), suspension tweeks (race suspension)

and drag tires on factory rims.

Sort of like F.A.S.T. racing but factory stock horsepower engines, and factory appearance.

The object is to basically drive a sort of optimized factory muscle car, just like the cars featured in magazines.

Basically, real street cars running realistic times, is the goal.

This series would show case and high light the TUNER or DRIVERS ability to take

a specific car of your choice, then follow the rules and put it in the best bracket for that car.

Tuners and Drivers then use the car of their choice that performed best in the time bracket raced,

and get the quickest possible e.t. out it.

And of course, also try to win the race!

Hence the birth of:

Factory Appearing Pure Stock Drag racing (F.A.P.S.D.)

Here is my vision/version of "Stock".

"Optimized" stock cars participate. Optimized is defined as follows:

"Musclecars or Muscle cars", for the purpose of the FAPSD racing series fall into the following categories:
Coupe: 2-door, 4 seat, RWD
Sedan: 4-door, V8,RWD
Sport: Cobras, Corvettes, Vipers only.
Foriegn: FAPSD League designated ONLY! If its not officially designated, it is NOT allowed.

SPECIFICATIONS: use for FORZA 4! They may change for Forza 5.

Requirements for Optimized cars:

All cars will be Front engine, Rear wheel drive

New and old American (and now a select few JDM and European) muscle cars competing

against each other with the following:

APPEARANCE: Factory paint and wheels, NO exceptions.

WEIGHT: Weight removal, STREET setting allowed, for MOST builds.

HORSEPOWER: Factory advertised published horsepower ratings at crank. *

*(Unless you provide proof that its higher. Provide documentation. It will be reviewed. Organizer decision final.)

Also, tribute cars or clones that are not actually in the game must be within and NO MORE

than +/-5HP of the factory rating.

TIRES: DRAG slicks allowed but correct factory standard or optional size tires will be used.

SUSPENSION: Here's the tricky part, RACE suspension settings allowed to maximize ability to tweek suspension

with race setting sway bars (F/R)

TRANSMISSIONS: SPORT trans allowed for Rear End RATIO changes. NO flywheel, clutch, or drive shaft changes.

DIFFERENTIAL: 1.5 sport setting

TRIBUTE cars: "Tribute" cars, by my definition, are cars that represent cars that are NOT the specific model offered in the game, but have a different paint scheme, and or HP and engine size than the model offered. For example, ZL-1, Yenko Camaros, Saleen and Roush Mustangs, Royal Bobcat Pontiacs, Mr Norms Dodges. They are allowed, but subject to review and approval. Because this series has heavy emphasis on the correct appearance, @weight, and factory Horsepower ratings, it is mandatory that any Tribute car meet these requirements. Use it withOUT prior approval, and it will be Disqualified.

TUNER CARS: See above for Tribute cars.

SPORTMANSHIP: All racers are required to conduct themselves in a respectful manner. We are here to have fun, therefore joking, and the friendly competitive ribbing associated with drag racing is OK. However, extensive profanity, name calling, fight words, and any behavior that that is inappropriate will cause you to be disqualified and banned from the series.

Prior to all races, there will be a mandatory 1 lap cruise, and photo op, prior to the actual racing.

Races will be at Sedona or Test track .

* Races will be held on announced and designated Sunday's at 9p.m. EST *

RULES (subject to change):

1. NO Clutch slip starts allowed (you will be disqualified). DROP CATCH starts only!

2. MUST use the FAPSD approved tune. These are free at my storefront.

* Important. If you dont want to use the tunes at the SF (locked), send me a request for a tune for the cars you may want to try.

I will gift you the unlocked tune for that car.

For fairness, the tunes MUST be FAPSD sanctioned. (i.e. come from me or be approved by me prior to race)

Racers tune/adjust/drive gifted cars to best of ability.

Racers get to pick a car to drive in each bracket. So you can race 7 different cars, 1 for each bracket.

3. Start out with bracket type racing. Breakout and you forfeit/lose race!

Brackets are: Based on E.T.s for 1/4 mile

(A+) 11.0-11.49

(A) 11.5-11.99;

(B) 12.0-12.49;

(C) 12.5-13.0;

(D) 13.1-13.59;

(E) 13.6-14.29

(F) 14.30-14.99

4. Only one bracket will race a week. Ex: 1st week only "F bracket" high 14 sec cars run.

5. Best 2 out of 3 runs.

(Point system will be utilized if there is a tie: 1st place =1 pts, 2nd = 2 pts, 3rd = 3 pts, 4th = 4 pts, etc., etc.)

6. May have all cars run at Test track, so 8 cars can run at a time;

or I can just limit the room to first 16 racers.

7. Organizer records all the races.

8. Review the tape, and post times for top 4 racers in bracket here online.

9. Top 4 racers come back for Championship Race in that bracket the next week.

10. After Championship Race, start next e.t. time bracket. Take to Championship, then go to next bracket.

EX: Format for races

Week 1, Run Bracket E with 13.6-14.29 cars. Record then review race. Post top 4 times/drivers. Then, do Championship Race Bracket E

Week 2, Run Bracket D with 13.1-13.59 cars. Record then review race. Post top 4 times/drivers. Do Bracket D Championship

Week 3, Run Bracket C with 12.5-13.0 cars. Record then review race. Post top 4 times/drivers. Do Bracket C Championship


$500,000 prize money cash to bracket winners!

If you race in all brackets, and win 4 of 7 brackets, you get extra $2,000,000 cash for Grand Champion!

There will also be contingency money for those that display the FAPSD sticker on the rear of the car. The FAPSD sticker will be available at my storefront.

Grand Champion will also win a choice from several customized replica of a real life "famous" hot rod as the prize car!

The prize choices are:

1. The famous "Project X" 1957 Chevy, a documented project car for "Popular Hot Rodding" Magazine for the last 40 years.

2. The famous "Silver Bullet" Dodge Coronet, that was a well known "factory sponsored", undefeated, street racer in Detroit during the day.

3. The Dale Earnhardt Jr 1973 Camaro hot rod built by Detroit Speed Enterprises.

FAPSD Examples:

1964 Ford T-bolt, with stock appeareance, with drag tires, tweeked suspension, street setting on weight reduction,

Factory advertised and rated at 425 hp(?), with 4 spd with 4.88 rear gear.

2002 Camaro SS, with stock appearance (factory paint color, dosnt have to be 35th Ann color), street weight reduction and rear gears. Factory advertised 345 hp option, tweeked suspension,with 6 spd and 4.10 rear gear.

1969 Z28 with stock appearance, drag tires, tweeked suspension, street weight reduction, 4 spd with 4.56 gear (or 3.73). Or to use the 1969 SS Camaro Unicorn and give it simulated factory big block horsepower ratings (396 ci w/375 hp, COPO w/425 hp), and weight reduction for additional weight of BBC engine.

This series was lots of fun. There were two seasons, should there be more? What do you guys think?



Edited by user Tuesday, June 10, 2014 10:47:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burn rubber, not your soul!
FM1, FM2, LCE-FM3, LCE-FM4, LCE-Horizon, LCE-FM5, Horizon 2, LCE-FM6
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2014 11:22:46 AM(UTC)
The below post and "quotes", and others that follow in this thread are from the original legacy thread, and are reposted here in an attempt to highlight important questions asked by the racers. However, I will not repost all 20 pages from the original thread. Original contributors to the legacy thread are welcome to repost here also.

Also, I will re-post FM4 photos of all the cars and the respective E.T.s they ran, when the original approved combo was set up.

The original posts of technical trivia about the cars will be reposted also. Technical trivia such as magazine articles that provide the cars specifications are used to help justify any tribute or tuner cars, and are considered" reasonable proof" of the cars specs. At least one racer in the past, was able to justify his combo during a tech inspection, and keep his bracket championship!

Racers, please REMEMBER, the FAPSD approved tune is just a ball park starting point, many of the cars actually run faster when you learn the nuances of each one.

[quote user="LS7 02SS"][quote user="robluvcars1"]
Suspension: heres the tricky part, race suspension settings allowed to maximize ability to tweek suspension


Ok, I got everything else but the suspension got my attention. When you say race setup for suspension, do you mean suspension and anti - roll bars also or just suspension?

Sorry. Yes, that includes the race anti-roll bars with the race suspension

Edit: Also, you said that you took the Camaro Z28 and recreated the COPO Camaro, how did you do that exactly?


I havnt done the ZL1 yet. I was offering that as an example for suggestion. By applying the parts needed to make the manufacturers gross factory horsepower ratings and no street weight reduction, I think we would able to get close to the ball park for the weight of a BB Camaro. As for appearance sake, we just delete (paint over the stripes). I have my version of what a modified one with steel wheels and no hub caps, looks like at My Forza photo page. Or if you have a Unicorn BBC 1969 Camaro SS, then you change the hood to cowl induction, and add the appropriate HP at the crank.

Camaroboy68SS (Yenko) vs Robluvcars1 (ZL-1) in a test and tune session, shortly after the original post

1969 Yenko Camaro Specs


Muscle Car Image Gallery
Muscle Car Image Gallery
©2007 Publications International, Ltd. The 1969 Yenko Camaro 427 was built by Chevrolet but dreamed up by car dealer and renowned bow-tie tuner Don Yenko. See more muscle car pictures.

The 1969 Yenko Chevrolet Camaro 427 was the delicious conversion of muscle car need and a factory's desire to please.

To Ford fans, Carroll Shelby is the high-priest of performance. Chevy loyalists revere a Canonsburg, Pennsylvania, car dealer named Don Yenko. Yenko had a deserved reputation for driving, building, and selling dominating Chevrolets, starting in '65 with well-crafted super Corvairs. He advanced to installing 427-cid Corvette V-8s in '67 and '68 Camaros, performing 118 of the transplants. These $4,200 ponys ran in the low 13s right off his shop floor.

Muscle Car Image Gallery

Other Chevy retailers, notably Nickey in Chicago, Dana in California, and Baldwin-Motion in New York, undertook similar transplants. But Yenko Sports Cars Inc. had dealer outlets for its cars in 19 states, and that earned clout with Chevrolet. Dealer conversions were complicated, however, and came with only a limited engine warranty.

©2007 Publications International, Ltd. The biggest engine available in mainline 1969 Camaros was Chevy's 375-bhp 396-cid V-8. Yenkos, however, were fitted with the Corvette 427. It was rated at 425 bhp, but Yenko pegged it at a more realistic 450.

So at Yenko's urging, Chevy agreed to factory-build a batch of 1969 Camaros with 427 engines, and to provide full 5-year/50,000-mile warranties. This was done under the Central Office Production Order system, which had previously been used to satisfy special requests from non-performance fleet buyers.

Wheelbase, inches: 108.1
Weight, lbs: 3,500
Number built: 201
Price: $4,500
Standard Engine
Type: ohv V-8
Displacement, cid: 427
Fuel system: 1 x 4bbl.
Compression ratio: 11.0:1
Horsepower @ rpm: 425 @ 5600
Torque @ rpm: 460 @ 4000
Representative Performance
0-60 mph, sec: 5.4
1/4 mile, sec. @ mph: 13.5 @ 105

Edited by user Sunday, January 26, 2014 6:49:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#3 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2014 12:07:35 PM(UTC)
A photo chronology of a FAPSD "test and tune" Race.

Stock AC Shelby Cobra roadster


2001 Camaro SS Dale Earnhardt edition.

Someone was sleeping and just "Got Tree'd."

Its not over. Just before the walk...

380hp, and 3.73 gears is just not enough to hold back a beast...

The result...

Edited by user Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:29:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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 1 user liked this post.
#4 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2014 12:28:43 PM(UTC)

^ 1970 Shelby Mustang Cobra GT500CJ, stock engine,3.55 rear axle, 13.66 sec., 104 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 2003 Saleen Mustang S281, 365HP, 3.08 rear axle ratio, 13.29 sec., 109 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. ^

^ Plymouth Cuda Hemi, stock engine, 3.54 rear axle ratio, 13.66 sec., 107 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. ^

^ 1970 Cougar Eliminator 428, stock engine, 3.91 rear axle ratio, 13.52 sec, 105 mph, 1/4 e.t.

^ 1969 Pontiac GTO Judge, stock engine, 4.56 rear axle ratio, 14.1 sec, 102 mph, 1/4 qtr mile e.t. (theres more in it)

^ 1969 Pontiac Firebird 400, Ram Air III, stock engine, 14.1 sec, 103 mph, 1/4 qtr mile e.t.

^ Hemi Dart, Stock engine, 4.88 rear axle ratio, 12.81, 114 mph, 1/4 qtr mile e.t. ^

^ 1967 Dodge Coronet Hemi, stock engine, 4.10 rear axle ratio, 12.86, 112mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

v 1970 Dodge Super Bee Hemi, factory hp, 3.55 rear axle at 13.28, 110 mph, 1/4 mile v



An Expert tuner (whose identity is protected) just sent me video posting this very same basic

Super Bee tune posted above. See my time?

Now compare:

EXPERT TIME was a 12.5/ 114 mph in the 1/4 mile E.T.


v L88 Corvette tribute, 430 hp, 4.11 rear axle, 13.32, 109 mph, 1/4 mile. v

L88 specs:
.540/.560 lift
334/364 duration.

ZL-1 specs:
.560/.600 lift
347/359 duration

L88 specs ^^

v Dale Earnhardt Camaro SS, 380hp, 3.73 rear axle, 13.29, at 107 mph, 1/4 mile v

Challenger R/T. Stock advertised HP, 3.54 rear axle ratio, 13.56, 106 mph, 1/4 qtr mile

^ Kowalski's Ghost...

87 Buick GNX. Factory advertised 300hp, 3.42 rear axle ratio. 13.56, 105 mph, 1/4 mile.

Nova/Chevy II, L79, 327/350hp, 4 spd., 3.73 rear axle ratio; 13.91, 103 mph, 1/4 mile ^

401 AMC Javelin AMX, 13.71, 105 mph, 1/4 mile. Stock engine, 3.54 rear axle ratio. ^

Buick GSX Stage 1. 13.89, 102 mph, 1/4 mile. Stock engine, 4.11 rear axle ratio. ^

More pure stock 1/4 mile times coming....

2002 T/A, 345 hp, 3.73 rear, 13.66, 104 mph, 1/4 mile

1969 Camaro ZL1 tribute; 430 hp, 4.56 rear, 12.66, 116 mph, 1/4 mile

^ 2011 Mustang GT500. Stock engine, 3.55 rear axle ratio. 12.69, 115 mph, 1/4 mile. (more there, only did 1 run)

1971 GTX Hemi. 13.61, 106 mph, 1/4 mile. Stock engine.

1970 LS6 454 Chevelle SS. 13.86 sec, 1/4 mile, 106 mph. Stock engine, 4.11 rear axle ratio.


SD Trans Am, Factory stock engine, 4.10 rear axle, 14.14 sec, 101 mph, 1/4 mile

^Bet an expert tuner* can make that puppy scream! The numbers are there on paper.^

(*Expert tuner ran 13.4, 105 mph in 1/4 mile)

V 392 Hemi SRT8 Challenger. 470 hp, 3.91 rear axle ratio. 12.8 sec, 115 mph, 1/4 mile V

The 2011 Dodge Challenger SRT8 was given a big boost in horsepower and torque with its new 392-cubic inch Hemi V8, packing 470 horsepower and 470 lb.-ft. of torque — 90 lb.-ft. more torque at 2,900 rpm compared with the previous 6.1-liter V-8 engine. Chrysler claims 0-60 times in the “high 4-second range” and quarter mile times “in the high 12s.”

Photos below courtesy of Car and Driver

2011 Dodge Challenger SRT8 392

2011 Dodge Challenger SRT8 392

1971 Mustang Mach 1 429, factory engine, 3.50 rear axle ratio, 13.91 sec. 105 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. V

1965 Pontiac GTO, tri-power 389, factory engine, 4.10 rea axle ratio, 14.12 sec., 103 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. V

1967 Chevelle SS396, L78, factory engine, 4.10 rear axle, 13.91 sec., 103 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. V


Edited by user Sunday, February 16, 2014 12:14:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burn rubber, not your soul!
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#5 Posted : Thursday, January 23, 2014 10:49:34 AM(UTC)
Regarding the topic of "Tuner" or "Tribute Cars"

Excerpts from previous pages.

Camaroboy68SS says:

"i really love this idea! Love the earnhardt edition camaro! thats is a classy looking car. also did you try 4:56's or 4:10's in the L79? I know that you could order them from the factory but they were installed at the dealer like the cross ram set up on the z28 camaros. also for the cars could we do stock apearing dealer cars such as the yenkos, nickeys or motion cars? really would love to do some of this racing."

Robluvcars1 says:

"YES Camaroboy68SS! Indeed. Please do Yenkos, Bergers, Royal Bobcats, again just provide the info for reference material ( date and issue of mag, website, etc) or link.

We all love photos, so post those here also with times (or not; your option on times if you have a killer combo that you dont want other experts to know you set up before the real racing starts).

We do need the PI info before the series starts, to confirm the car is within the rules. You can send me a courtesy tune also for verification, but your tune would not be public. I posted at my storefront some free basic tunes using the rule book, and my best times for those that want to try the cars and tweek them to see how they compare to my "noob" drag racing skills. Most cars were tested with only 3-5 runs, just to get a feel for them, so they can certainly be optimized!"

Subku1ture asks:
"After seeing the D.E. camaro, are we aloud to make an 03 terminator replica as he did with the camaro? As long as it looks and runs like show room of course!"

Robluvcars1 says:

"Yes Subku1ture you may build a Terminator!

Keep in mind you also need to keep the weights as close as possible to the real car. Try to make it physically look as close as possible too. For instance, the L88 Corvette had a higher rise special hood, but since that hood was not possible, I used the 5 inch cowl induction one.

Send us a photo, and the basic tune also, so that if needed (if another person ran one) the cars PI can be compared. Also, as I recall, Terminators make about 430 hp stock at the crank, but the factory says 390hp. Probably need to stay with the factory rating, unless you send in reference data to support it as stated. that is gonna be a big door kicked open for a lot of people, because we all know the factory 426 Hemi is underated, as is the Super Cobra Jet and the ZL1. ( I may have to reconsider this option...)

At the end of the day, whatever car is used, the PI should be the same for a competitor in an identical like car model ( i.e. all GSX should have the same PI).

The difference will be in the racers/tuners ability to get the most out of the parts combo... "

Heres my example...

2003 Mustang Cobra "Terminator" tribute, stock s/c engine (430hp), 3.55 rear axle, 12.92, 114mph, 1/4 qtr mile e.t. ^

Here you are for those that are interested...

All photos and info obtained from:

2003 - 2004 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra Burnout

The 2003/2004 SVT Mustang Cobra aka "The Terminator" ^

This limited production 10th anniversary steed was, at the time, the most powerful production Mustang Ford had ever produced. Equipped with an M112 Eaton supercharger, the 4.6L DOHC modular engine produced a factory rated 390 horsepower – later revealed to have been underrated, making more like 430 horsepower. Code named the “Terminator” by SVT, this vehicle was built to remove all doubt as to who won the ponycar wars.

Both years of the SN95 2, or New Edge, Cobra Mustang shared the same drivetrain and other major features. Forged internal engine components and a reversion from aluminum to a cast iron block help ensure the bottom end can handle the boosted power. The engine produces 390 horsepower at 6,000 rpm and 390 foot-pounds of torque at 3,500 rpm, compared with the 2001 model’s 320 hp at 6,000 rpm and 317 foot-pounds of torque at 4,750 rpm.

“We’ve had some pretty successful Mustangs, and specifically SVT Mustang Cobras,” said John Coletti, chief engineer for Ford SVT, “but the whole idea is to improve. That’s what we’re committed to, and the number-one thing our customers want is enhanced performance. The supercharged engine allowed us to go where we needed to go — to give our customers a whole lot more carthan ever before.”

A TTC six speed manual transmission funnels power to the independant rear suspension (IRS) fitted with stronger 31 spline half-shaft axles and 3.55 gears. The “Terminator” Cobra gets a stiffer suspension compared to older versions, with Bilstein struts and upgraded rear pads.

2003 Ford Mustang SVT Cobra Specifications
Engine Displacement 4.6L 281cid DOHC Modular w/Eaton Supercharger
Compression Ratio 8.5:1
Horsepower 390 hp @ 6000 rpm
Torque 390 lbs.-ft. @ 3500 rpm
Transmission Tremec T56 Six speed
Rear end IRS 8.8″ 3.55:1 w/traction lock
Front Modified Macpherson strut type with Bilstein struts, linear rate coil springs, and 29mm anti-roll bar
Rear Multi-link independent with upper and lower control arms, linear rate coil springs, and 26mm anti-roll bar
Front 13.0 in. (330mm) vented Brembodisc, PBR twin-piston caliper
Rear 11.65 in. (296mm) vented disc, single-piston caliper
Anti-lock Brakes/Traction Control Four wheel anti-lock with traction control standard
Wheels 17 x 9 in. 5-spoke cast aluminum
Tires Goodyear™ Eagle F1, 275/40ZR-17
Other General Specifications
Wheelbase 101.3
Length 183.5
Width 73.1
Height 52.5
Front/Rear Track 60.3/60.3
Weight Coupe: 3665

Edited by user Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:51:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burn rubber, not your soul!
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#6 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 8:55:58 AM(UTC)
Gona have to read this a few more times to get the mud cleared out but I like the concept, count me interested.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 10:37:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: cipher1962 Go to Quoted Post
Gona have to read this a few more times to get the mud cleared out but I like the concept, count me interested.

If something is not clear, just ask.

Sorry for the confusion that may be there.

Thats the problem with patching together a few post from the old thread.

If you really want to read the original FAPSD thread, go to the the archives section. or try the link at the bottom of this post.

However, T10 did not label it as Archives; go to the "Miscellaneous" section near bottom of the Forums pages.

Go there. Then once inside Misc.,

Hit the "Off Topic" section, go there.

Once inside Off Topic, go to thread called "Where are all the threads?"

Hit there, look at #5 post. Follow the link to the Legacy Forums (Archives)

Hit there, and go to racers Lounge.

Once in racers Lounge, hit "The Strip."

There is the complete write up with two seasons worth of FAPSD series racing, and numerous posts with info about

all kinds of muscle cars.

Read the first 5 pages, then if you want, skip to page 8 and follow the two seasons of the series.

Trust me, I think it will be clearer than mud.

Again, if you have a question, feel free to ask.

The concept is simple, "FAPSD is real cars running real times!" ...and the racing was even simpler.

Pick a car that realistically runs in the bracket being raced that week.

Follow the rules, as races sometimes won on the track, are sometimes lost, when there is a tech inspection.

The rules sometimes cause some of the questions; they are the first post in the thread here.

click here: http://legacy.forums.for...rums/thread/5064272.aspx

Edited by user Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:48:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burn rubber, not your soul!
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#8 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 12:55:02 PM(UTC)
I have some cars that are going to have to be looked at..i did the green with envy challenger,2007 charger super bee, and the 03/04 cobra
AWD=Training wheels for people who can't launch right.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Saturday, January 25, 2014 11:12:52 AM(UTC)
The below photos and data info are from

"Even with their strong 427-cid V-8s and lightened front ends, big body-on-frame Ford Galaxies were no match for the lighter-still unibody Dodge and Plymouth muscle cars. The obvious solution was to stuff the 427 into the midsize Fairlane. Nothing good comes easy. With help from Dearborn Steel Tubing, a contract car builder, Dearborn concocted the race-ready and street-legal, if not exactly streetable,1964 Ford Thunderbolt."


Extensive front-end modifications were necessary to custom-fit the big-block, and eight equal-length exhaust headers had to be snaked through the suspension components. The competition 427's high-rise manifold elevated the air cleaner above the fender line, requiring a teardrop-shaped hood bubble. It gulped air via screened inner headlight bezels. Transmissions were a Hurst-shifted four-speed with 4.44:1 gears or an automatic with 4.58:1. Massive traction bars, asymmetrical rear springs, and a trunk-mounted 95-pound bus battery helped get down what was realistically 500 bhp.

As Hot Rod warned, the T-bolt was "not suitable for driving to and from the strip, let alone on the street in everyday use."
The 1964 Ford Thunderbolt
Wheelbase, inches: 115.5
Weight, lbs: 3225
Number built: 100
Base price: $3,780

Standard Engine
Type: ohv V-8
Displacement, cid: 427
Fuel system: 2 x 4bbl.
Compression ratio: 12.7:1
Horsepower @ rpm: 425 @ 6000
Torque @ rpm: 480 @ 3700

Representative Performance
0-60 mph, sec: NA
1/4 mile, sec. @ mph: 11.76 @ 122.7

^ FAPSD T-Bolt; 12.31 e/t, 115 mph 1/4 mile at Sedona ^^

Edited by user Saturday, January 25, 2014 11:59:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#10 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:24:16 AM(UTC)
1970 Boss 429 Mustang, stock engine, 4.10 rear axle, 13.9, 103 mph, 1/4 qtr mile.

^ Just turning that time took a lot of effort and trial and error...

(*Expert tuner obtained a 13.39 sec, 105 mph 1/4 mile)

V Info below obtained from V

"Holding a big block with a huge bore and hemispherical combustion chambers, the motor had staggering potential for power. However, the brainchild of this car, the late Larry Shinoda, was disappointed with the finished product. He was quoted as saying that he wanted a 10-second capable car in factory form. For several reasons, the actual production Boss 429 certainly wasn’t capable of such times. The rev limiter, a small carburetor (the Boss 302 Mustang had a larger one), restrictive intake manifold, a mild solid lifter cam, and restrictive exhaust corked up the motor and kept it from revving.

Furthermore, all of the smog equipment choked it down. The finished product was still strong, rated at 375 horsepower at 5200 RPM, but the powerband was narrow for an engine of this size, a result of the restrictions. Stoplight drag racing was prevalent in the day, and owners of these Mustangs, as well as other cars such as Chrysler’s street Hemi, could be surprised by "lesser" cars of the day that produced broader powerbands and more low-rpm torque. 100+ horsepower can easily be added with the right cam/intake/carb/exhaust selection, along with a broader powerband."

1969 Boss 429 Mustang Performace

◦Engine: 375hp Boss 429 V-8
◦Horsepower @ rpm: 375 @ 5200
◦Torque @ rpm: 450 @ 3400
◦Transmission: Four-speed manual
◦Axle Ratio: 3.91:1
◦Weight: 3,870
■0-60 mph 7.1
■0-100 mph 13.6
◦Standing 1/4 mi 14.09 @ 102.85 mph
◦Top speed 118 mph


Edited by user Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:24:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burn rubber, not your soul!
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#11 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:18:13 AM(UTC)
More "Tribute" cars

Camaroboy68SS says:

"im building a replica of this right now

The 1963 Z-11 427 Impala

The R.P.O. Z-11 optioned Impala was designed for one reason and one reason only... Racing. Cubic inches were climbing fast in '63 and the Z-11 427 Impala was Chevrolet's way of keeping up with Ford, Pontiac, and Chrysler at the track.

The 427 was a modified 409 engine. The stroke was increased, special heads, valves and intake manifold were added. Fuel was supplied by 2-4bbl Carter AFB carburetors. A special cowl induction air cleaner was also used as shown below.

Z-11 427's came with painted valve covers. Some were orange, others were silver.
This car was all performance and no frills. You wouldn't find a radio or even a front sway bar. Most Z-11's were ordered with the heater delete option and no sound deadner. Light and fast was the idea with this car and to help lighten it, the Z-11 came with an aluminum front nose and other parts. Hood, fenders, front and rear bumper, front and rear bumper brackets and braces, grill brackets, a 2 piece riveted fan shroud, grill filler panel and hood support catch were all made from light weight aluminum making the car about 300 pounds lighter than a similar 409 powered production car.

To stop the car, sintered metallic brakes and special venting screens and air scoops in the backing plates for added cooling were used. All Z-11's came with T-10 4 speeds, a beefed up posi rear and a 4.11:1 gear ratio. (code JA)

Only 57 Z-11 optioned Impala's were produced and only 7 are thought to be in existance today, making them an extremely rare and valuable piece of Chevrolet history.

Although the Z-11 was made for racing, they weren't directly sold to race car drivers. Some ended up on car lots. And although 1963 was the only year for the Z-11, there were about 20 C.O.P.O. 1962 Impala's built mid to late in the year with aluminum front ends and equipped with 409's. These 409's had special features like the Z-11 intake manifold, special camshaft, heads, etc. There were also 18 extra sets of aluminum front ends made for that year and sold to race car drivers.

The base price of a 1963 Impala was $2774.00. Adding the price of the R.P.O. Z-11 option of $1240.00 to that brings the total price just over $4000.00 not including destination charges, taxes, etc.

V Since there is no 1963 Impala Z-11 in the game, a Tribute car based on the 1964 Impala is used: V

Z-11 Facts and part numbers:
Produced only in 1963
The R.P.O. Z-11 option was an additional $1240.00
Shipping weight-3245 lbs.
Curb weight-3405 lbs.
57 Z-11 Impala's were produced
Modified 409 engine rated at 430hp@6000 RPM's. (Actual
horsepower was 480-525)
Block casting #3830814. Code "QM"
Block part number #3838253
Cylinder Heads #3837731 2.19 intake/1.72 exhaust
Valve Covers #3837739 (left), #3837740 (right)
Oil pan (deep sump) #3816322
2 piece Intake manifold #3830623 (top)-#3837733 (bottom)
Waterpump #3837691 (aluminum)
Cam #3837736 .556 intake/.556 exhaust lift with 325 duration
Crankshaft #3837472
Distributor #1111023
Coil #1115107
Generator #1100628
Starter #1107274
3.65" piston stroke
4.3125" bore (same as 409)
13.5:1 compression ratio
Special cowl induction air cleaner #6418986, #3839764 (duct)
Tach (redlined at 6200 rpm's)
Borg Warner T-10 4 speed transmission (close ratio)
Special posi rear with 4.11:1 rear gear ratio
Sintered metallic brake shoes
Screened rear brake backing plates with air scoops
15 X 5.5 wheels with 6.70 X 15 bias ply tires
Front coil springs #3824693
Rear coil springs #3824694
Deleted front sway bar
Optional sound proofing and insulation delete on most
Optional heater delete on most
Hood #3837710 (aluminum)
Hood catch #3837718 (aluminum)
Grill filler panel #3837750 (aluminum)
Left fender #3837765 (aluminum)
Right fender #3837766 (aluminum)
Front bumper center #3837751 (aluminum)
Front bumper LH #3837755 (aluminum)
Front bumper RH #3837756 (aluminum)
Rear bumper center #3837752 (aluminum)
Rear bumper LH #3837753 (aluminum)
Rear bumper RH #3837754 (aluminum)
Front bumper bracket LH #3837763 (aluminum)
Front bumper bracket RH #3837764 (aluminum)
Rear bumper bracket LH #3837757 (aluminum)
Rear bumper bracket RH #3837758 (aluminum)
Rear frame to bumper brace LH #3837759 (aluminum)
Rear frame to bumper brace RH #3837760 (aluminum)

heres the link to the site "

Robluvcars1 says:

"Thats a great time! I saw last night that you're able to get a little more from your cars than I am!

I am looking forward to the battle between the Z11 "tribute", T-Bolt, and Dart! In all fairness, though, unless the Dart, and T-bolt drivers produce documentation that supports the extra HP, in the interest of seeing close, tight races (in theory anyway), I would "prefer" to keep the Z11 at 430hp, but its up for debate.

**Engine upgraded to 6.9 liter (@427ci), 482 HP, 3147 lbs curb wght, 4.56 rear axle ratio, 13.01 sec., 115 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. (to date)

-News flash: Professional tuner ran 12.4 sec, 116 mph, 1/4 e.t. with this combo!

^ true Z11 427 impalas were 1963 models; since we have only 1964 (and 1996) Impalas in Forza,

the 1964 Impala SS is a "tribute" car to represent the 1963 model.

It's still not known how many of these cars were built - somewhere between 50 and 57 are the numbers commonly used. The owner believes there were 50 built, based on a shipping document from an engine plant showing 50 Z-11 engines shipped to the Flint Assembly Plant.

Zora Duntov and his group of engineers developed the 427 Z-11 engine and body package for drag racing. The Z-11 427 engine was the first 427 cubic-inch production engine offered by Chevrolet in a Regular Production Order (RPO) car.

The base price of a 1963 Impala was $2,774. Adding the price of the RPO Z-11 option of $1,240 brings the total price just over $4,000, not including destination charges, taxes, etc.

... the Z-11 was raced by Ronnie Sox (of Sox and Martin Fame). It was used as their match race car and was billed as the 'World's Fastest Z-11,' turning low 11.20 ET's. It in fact was capable of times as fast at 10.80 ET in the ¼ mile and indeed was extremely fast for its day. The car has factory aluminum hood, fenders, bumpers, brackets and other components. "


Edited by user Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:37:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burn rubber, not your soul!
FM1, FM2, LCE-FM3, LCE-FM4, LCE-Horizon, LCE-FM5, Horizon 2, LCE-FM6
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2014 10:33:00 AM(UTC)
History Lesson

Camaroboy68SS posted:

"specs and story of the 68 baldwin motion camaro L88!


In 1968 Lud Renner purchased an 11-second SS/RS 427 Camaro. Forty-two years and five thousand miles later, he still owns it!

Lud Renner runs a graphic arts studio on the Left Coast and is the only known Baldwin-Motion Camaro owner who bought his car new and never sold it. Nor did he ever restore it. It actually still smells new!

Renner’s Camaro odyssey started in the spring of 1968 when he purchased a Baldwin-Motion 427 Camaro. At the time he lived with his parents in Maplewood, NJ. Baldwin’s Dave Bean recognized that Renner was a drag racing and sent him over to Joel Rosen at Motion Performance to spec out a serious big-block Camaro.

“For a young street racer it was an incredible experience talking with Rosen and having him cherry pick the options needed to go as fast as I wanted to. He suggested options that I didn’t even know existed, like the aluminum head L88 engine,” recalls Lud Renner.

“I’ll never forget that day when he told me, ‘properly modified, your Camaro would be untouchable.’ He was right!”

Based on Rosen’s recommendations, Renner ordered a 1968 Camaro powered by a Phase III version of the 427-inch aluminum-head, 12.5-to-l factory race motor. Rated at approximately 600 horsepower, the dyne-tuned and Motion-ized L88 in Renner’s Camaro features a 950-cfm Holley three-barrel carburetor fed by an electric Super Pumper, tuned headers, dual-point Motion-Mallory ignition and signature fly-eye air cleaner and finned alloy valve covers.

Rosen knew exactly what Renner needed to accomplish his street and strip racing goals and installed a Schaefer Rev-Loc clutch-flywheel package, scattershield, Mallory rev-limiter, M22 four-speed, 4.56 Posi rear, metallic brakes and a complete Super-Bite suspension with traction bars and shocks. Renner also opted for the trunk-mounted battery package.

When Rosen told Renner about a late addition to the Camaro color palette, Corvette Bronze (shown on the original Baldwin Chevrolet invoice as “Special Paint, Bronze #96D), he jumped at the choice. Listed as Code 00 Bronze in the factory dealer ordering information, it is Code 992 Corvette Bronze and was not carried over to 1969 models. It may be the only Bronze 1968 Baldwin-Motion Camaro.

By the time Renner was finished with the option list, the Bronze L88 SS/RS Camaro invoiced at $6,360.95. The actual cost was close to $7,000, as after delivery (three month build time) he brought the Camaro back for some additional racing equipment and an L88/ZL1 fiberglass hood. It was originally delivered with a modified steel hood with a Ford Thunderbolt scoop.

Barely broken in, Renner filled the Camaro’s tank with 110-octane Avgas, drove to Englishtown Raceway Park, changed plugs, installed 11-inch-wide Racemaster slicks, uncapped the headers, and made a few passes. The Camaro was slotted into A/Modified Production, a class normally reserved for serious racecars like Motion’s NHRA National record-holding Camaro.

Renner’s first pass netted an 11.60-sec/121-mph time slip and he later went on to win the class. He repeated this performance a few weeks later.

In the spring of 1969, Lud Renner entered his Camaro in the opener of the World Championship Series at Englishtown. Competition had gotten a lot tougher in A/MP and now he had to run against Chevrolet's new COPO ZL1 as well as modified big-block Camaros. The Camaro was dialed in and he was ready.

“I was running 11.2s and 3s and at the end of the day, my Baldwin-Motion Camaro was the last one standing in A/MP. It was good enough for the class win and the Grand Opener Champion trophy,” reminisced Renner.

Lud Renner retired the Camaro from racing after his big win at Englishtown and pursued a career in graphic arts. Today Renner runs a very successful graphic arts agency in California, catering to high-tech electronics and computer components manufacturers.

Reflecting on his unique Camaro that today looks and runs the way it did when last raced, Renner still experiences a real adrenalin rush.

“It’s an amazing car. Back in the day I had never driven a car that accelerated like my Baldwin-Motion L88 Camaro. Not even heavily modified 427/435 Corvettes and European exotics. Nothing ever pulled through the gears and was still making power when the tach needle nudged past 7,000 rpm. It was and still is an absolutely unreal performing street car.”

Lud Renner occasionally drives and shows his Camaro locally. And it never fails to draw a crowd – especially when he fires up its vintage L88!
http://www.carguychronic...-camaro-spectacular.html "


Robluvcars1 says:

"Heres my Baldwin Motion 454:

**Engine upgraded to Phase III specs, @507HP, 4.88 rear axle ratio, 12.71 sec., 117 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. "

Camaroboy68SS says:

"finnaly found specs for the 70 Baldwin Motion camaro ss 454!

From the CARS Magazine Archive: 1970-1/2 Baldwin-Motion SS-454 Phase-III Camaro Road Test
Dateline: 7.25.11
Chevrolet’s 427 big-block engine grew to 454 cubic-inches in 1970 and Joel Rosen, “Mr. Motion” was right on it!


Edited by user Monday, February 3, 2014 10:37:14 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burn rubber, not your soul!
FM1, FM2, LCE-FM3, LCE-FM4, LCE-Horizon, LCE-FM5, Horizon 2, LCE-FM6
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:03:55 AM(UTC)
TECH INFO to support builds; Gen I Chevy small blocks

Camaroboy68SS says:

"also here is more info on how the 350hp L79 motor in the 66 nova is the same 365hp motor used in the vettes. also is some history on the Z28 302 motor and what its true horsepower rating were.

4.00 in bore family (1962–1998)

Originally intended as the performance block, this engine family through the 350 CID became an all purpose engine that saw use in many applications from Corvettes to vans. All engines in this family share the same block dimensions and sometimes even the same casting number; the latter meaning engines were of the same block, but with different strokes (e.g. the casting number 3970010 was used by all three engines: 302, 327, and 350). This engine family was updated in 1968 for the use of 2.45” medium-sized journals. The first engine in this family was the small journal 327 in 1962 and the last being 1992's medium journal 350. The medium journal 350 would later be further developed into the "Generation II" LT 350 in the early 1990s.

Chevrolet produced a special 302 cu in (4.9 L) (referred to as 5.0 L) engine for Sports Car Club of America SCCA Trans-Am Series racing from 1967–1969. It was the product of placing the 283 3-inch stroke crankshaft into a 4-inch bore 327 block. The 1967 302 used the same nodular cast-iron crank as the 283[4], with a forged-steel crankshaft that was also produced. This block is one of 3 displacements, 302/327/350, that underwent a crankshaft bearing diameter transformation for 1968 when the rod-journal size was increased from the 2.00 in. diameter small-journal to a 2.10 large-journal and the main-journal size was increased from 2.30 in. to 2.45. The large-journal connecting rods were heavier and used 3/8 in. diameter cap-bolts to replace the small-journal’s 11/32. 1968 blocks were made in 2-bolt and 4-bolt versions with the 4-bolt center-three main caps each fastened by two additional bolts which were supported by the addition of heavier crankcase main-web bulkheads. When the journal size increased to the standard large-journal size, the crankshaft for the 302 was specially built of tufftride-hardened forged 1053-steel and fitted with a high-rpm 8.00 in. diameter harmonic balancer. This engine was used only in the first-generation (1967-69) Z/28 Camaro. It had a 3/4-length semi-circular windage tray, heat-treated, magnafluxed, and shot-peened forged 1038-steel 'pink' connecting rods, floating-pin in `69, and forged-aluminum pistons with higher scuff-resistance, better sealing single-moly rings. Its solid-lifter cam, known as the '30-30 cam named after its .030/.030 in. intake/exhaust hot valve-lash and [[Zora Arkus-Duntov (the Duntov cam was the .012/.018 1957 camshaft known as the 097, which referred to the last three digits of the casting number) the "father of the Corvette", was also used in the 1964-65 carbureted 327/365 and F.I. 327/375 engines. It used the '202' 2.02/1.60 valve diameter high-performance 327 double-hump #461 heads, hardened 'blue-stripe' pushrods, edge- **** lifters to keep more valvetrain oil in the crankcase for high-rpm lubrication, and stiffer valvesprings. In 1967, a new design high-rise cast-aluminum dual-plane intake manifold with larger runners and smoother passage turns was introduced for the Z/28 that the LT-1 350 1969 Corvette and 1970 Z/28 were equipped with until 1973. Unlike the Corvette, the exhaust manifolds were the more restrictive rear outlet 'log' design to clear the Camaro's front cross-member. It had a chrome oil filler tube and valve covers from 1967 to 1968, and chrome 14.00 x 3.00 in. drop-base open-element air-cleaner assembly on a 780cfm vacuum secondary Holley 4-Bbl carburetor. A 'divorced' exhaust crossover port heated well-choke thermostat coil was used to provide cleaner and faster engine warm-up. Its single-point distributor had an ignition point cam designed to reduce point-bounce at high-rpm along with a vacuum diaphragm to advance ignition timing at idle and part-throttle for economy and emissions. Balancer and water-pump pulleys, as well as optional power-steering's pulley, were deep-groove for belt retention at high-rpm. In 1969, the 302 shared the cast-aluminum valve covers with the LT-1 350 Corvette engine. Conservatively rated at 290 hp (216 kW) (SAE gross) at 5800 rpm and 290 lb-ft at 4800, actual output with its production 11:1 compression ratio was around 376 hp (280 kW) with tubular headers that came in the trunk when ordered with a new Z/28, carburetor main-jet, and ignition timing tuning.

After the 1967 Trans-Am campaign with the 4-Bbl induction system producing more horsepower than the competing auto makers' 8-Bbl systems, for 1968 Chevrolet developed a factory 'cross-ram' aluminum intake-manifold package using two Holley 585cfm mechanical-secondary carburetors for Trans-Am racing. It was available only as off-road service parts purchased over the Chevrolet dealership parts counter. With the Chevrolet '140' off-road cam, the package increased a stock 302's hp from 360 hp to approximately 400. Chevrolet went so far as to carry the positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) system over to the cross-ram induction system to retain emissions compliance mandated for U.S.-produced cars beginning in 1967, that also provided full-throttle crankcase pressure venting to the intake air to burn its vapors. Engines prepared for competition use were capable of producing 465 hp with little more than the 8-Bbl induction, ported heads with higher pressure valvesprings, roller rocker arms, and the '754' road-race cam. 1967/1968 models' cowl-induction system had an enclosed air-cleaner assembly ducted from its passenger side into the firewall cowl above the heater core. In 1969, factory ZL-2 cowl-induction hoods were available for both the single and dual four-barrel induction systems that were sealed to the air-cleaner base ensuring cooler, high-pressure, dense air from the center of the base of the windshield was supplied to the engine for combustion smoothness and maximum power production. Another popular service-parts-only component used on the 302 was the Delco transistor-ignition distributor, introduced in 1967 and also used in the L88 427 Corvette, that eliminated the production breaker-point ignition allowing more stable ignition-timing at high engine speeds.

The 302's bore/stroke and rod/stroke geometries made it a natural high-rpm engine and were responsible for its being among the more reliable production street engines homologated for full-competition across all the American makes winning back-to-back Trans-Am Championships at the hands of Mark Donohue in 1968 and 1969. However, the pinnacle of the 302's use in professional racing was its being the primary engine that powered the outstanding but overshadowed 1967-1976 SCCA Formula 5000 Championship Series, a SCCA Formula A open-wheel class designed for lower cost. Weighing 1400 lbs., with 525-550 hp, a 5-spd. transaxle, and 20 in. wide 15 in. rear wheels, it produced incredibly exciting racing. Prepared with a Lucas-McKay mechanically-timed fuel-injection, individual-stack magnesium induction-system that was paired with ported production double-hump iron heads and a virtually stock production crankshaft, it had a lasting impact on the series' ability to conduct high car-number finishes and close competition events by the degree of mechanical success it provided to a series filled with star international Grand Prix drivers like David Hobbs, Brian Redman, Jody Scheckter, and Mario Andretti.

The 327 cu in (5,354 cc) V8, introduced in 1962, had a bore of 4 in (101.6 mm) and a stroke of 3.25 in (82.55 mm). Power ranged from 210 hp (157 kW) L30 to 375 hp (280 kW) depending on the choice of carburetor or fuel injection, camshaft, cylinder heads, pistons and intake manifold. In 1962, the Duntov solid lifter cam versions produced 340 hp (254 kW), 344 lb·ft (466 N·m) with single Carter 4-barrel, and 360 hp (268 kW), 352 lb·ft (477 N·m) with Rochester mechanical fuel injection. In 1964, horsepower increased to 365 hp (272 kW) for the now dubbed L-79 version, and 375 hp (280 kW) for the fuel injected L-84 respectively, making the L-84 the most powerful naturally aspirated, single-cam, production small block V8 (aside from the limited-run Ford Boss 351) until the appearance of the 385 hp (287 kW), 385 lb·ft (522 N·m) Generation III LS6 in 2001. This block is one of three displacements that underwent a major change in 1968/1969 when the main journal size was increased from 2.30 inches (58.4 mm) to 2.45 inches (62.2 mm).

In 1966, Checker began offering the 327 as an option.[5] "

Big Block Chevy (BBC) TECH INFO, Gen I

Camaroboy68SS says:

"here is some backing info on some of the low ball horsepower numbers chevy did. mainly the L78 motor where is was 375hp in a camaro, chevelle, or nova but 425hp in a vette. they are the same motor.

396 and 402

The 396-cubic-inch (6.5 L) V8 was introduced in the 1965 Corvette as the L78 option and in the Z16 Chevelle. It had a bore of 4.094 in (104.0 mm) and a stroke of 3.76 in (96 mm), and produced 375 hp (280 kW) and 415 lb·ft (563 N·m). This version of the 396 was equipped with four bolt main bearing caps and was very comfortable with being operated in the upper 6000 rpm range.

Introduced in 1970, the 402-cubic-inch (6.6 L) was a 396-cubic-inch bored out by 0.030 in (0.76 mm). Despite the fact that it was 6 cubic inches (98 cc) larger, Chevy continued marketing it under the popular "396" label in the smaller cars while at the same time labeling it "Turbo-Jet 400" in the full-size cars.

Power rating(s) by year:

◦1965: 375 hp (280 kW)/425 hp (317 kW)
◦1966: 325 hp (242 kW)/350 hp (260 kW)/360 hp (270 kW)/375 hp (280 kW)
◦1967: 325 hp (242 kW)/350 hp (260 kW)/375 hp (280 kW)
◦1968: 325 hp (242 kW)/350 hp (260 kW)/375 hp (280 kW)
◦1969: 265 hp (198 kW)(2bbl)/325 hp (242 kW)/350 hp (260 kW)/375 hp (280 kW)
◦1970: 330 hp (250 kW)/350 hp (260 kW)/375 hp (280 kW)
◦1971: 300 hp (220 kW)
◦1972: 240 hp (180 kW)
Used in:

◦1965 Chevrolet Corvette
◦1965–1972 Chevrolet Chevelle
◦1967–1972 Chevrolet Camaro
◦1968–1970 Chevrolet Nova
◦1970–1972 Chevrolet Monte Carlo, Chevrolet Trucks
◦1965–1972 Chevrolet Biscayne, Chevrolet Bel Air, Chevrolet Impala, Chevrolet Impala SS, Chevrolet Caprice
Production codes

◦LS-34: produced 1966-9, 10.25:1 compression, Holley (Q-jet 1968-9) carburetor, hydraulic lifters, oval port closed chamber heads, forged steel crankshaft, and two-bolt main caps. It produced 350 to 360 hp (260 to 270 kW).[2]
◦L-35: produced 1965-9, had 10.25:1 compression, Q-jet carburetor, forged steel (1965-7) or nodular iron (1968-9) crankshaft, hydraulic lifters, oval port closed chamber heads, and two-bolt main caps. It produced 325 hp (242 kW).[2]
◦L-66: produced 1969, rare two-barrel carburetor, 9:1 compression, nodular iron crankshaft, hydraulic lifters, oval port closed chamber heads,and two-bolt main caps. It produced 265 hp (198 kW).[2]
◦L-78: produced 1965-9, had 800 cfm Holley carburetor, 11:1 compression, forged pop-top pistons, aluminum high-rise intake manifold, steel crankshaft, solid lifter cam (same as the L-72; except in 1965 Z16 Chevelle), rectangular ("square") port closed chamber heads, and four-bolt main caps. It produced 375 hp (280 kW) in mid-size cars, 425 hp (317 kW) in Corvettes.[2]
◦LS-3: produced 1970-2, 10.25:1 (1970) or 8.5:1 (1971) compression, hydraulic lifters, nodular iron crankshaft, and two-bolt main caps. It produced 330 hp (250 kW) (1970), 300 hp (220 kW) (1971), 210 or 240 hp (160 or 180 kW) (1972 net horsepower, single or dual exhaust).[2]
◦L-34: produced 1970. Same as 396 ci LS-34.
◦L-78: produced 1970. Same as 396 ci.
◦LS-1: produced 1969, 10.25:1 compression, Q-jet carburetor, oval port closed chamber heads, hydraulic lifters, nodular iron crankshaft, and two-bolt main caps. It produced 335 hp (250 kW).[3]
◦L-36: produced 1966-9, had 10.25:1 compression, Holley or Q-jet carburetor, nodular iron crankshaft, hydraulic lifters, oval port closed chamber heads, and two-bolt main caps. It produced 385 hp (287 kW) in full-size cars, 390 hp (290 kW) in Corvettes (by exhaust system).[3]
◦L-68: produced 1967-9, had 10.25:1 compression, Tri-Power, nodular iron crankshaft, hydraulic lifters, aluminum oval port closed chamber heads, and two-bolt main caps. It produced 400 hp (300 kW), and was used in Corvettes.[3]
source Guide to Muscle Cars Magazine, 2/87, p.62. and "


Edited by user Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:14:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burn rubber, not your soul!
FM1, FM2, LCE-FM3, LCE-FM4, LCE-Horizon, LCE-FM5, Horizon 2, LCE-FM6
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2014 11:21:20 AM(UTC)

^ 2008 Mustang Bullet tribute...316HP, 3.73 rear axle, 13.69 sec , 105 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

Info below from Motor Trend Magazine

2008 Ford Mustang BullittBase price$31,075

Price as tested$34,235 (MT est)

Vehicle layoutFront engine, RWD, 4-pass, 2-door coupe

Engine4.6L/315 hp/325-lb-ft SOHC 18-valve V-8

Transmission5-speed manual

Curb weight (f/r dist)3590 (54/36%) (MT est)

Wheelbase107.1 in

Length x width x height187.6 x 73.9 x 55.5 in

0-60 mph5.0 sec

Quarter mile13.7 sec @ 102.7 mph

Braking, 60-0 mph127 ft

Lateral acceleration0.87 g (avg)

MT Figure Eight26.4 sec @ 0.52 g (avg)

EPA city/hwy fuel econ15/23 mpg (est)

CO 2 emissions1.09 lb/mile

On sale in U.S.Early 2008

Read more:


Edited by user Monday, February 3, 2014 10:38:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burn rubber, not your soul!
FM1, FM2, LCE-FM3, LCE-FM4, LCE-Horizon, LCE-FM5, Horizon 2, LCE-FM6
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2014 12:07:32 PM(UTC)


1993 Saleen Supercharged Ford Mustang Fox Body

^ Saleen Mustang SSC, 326HP, 3.55 rear axle ratio, 13.66 sec., 104 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.


Below Saleen Mustang info and photos courtesy of Paul's Travel Pictures:


Four-wheel Racecraft disc brakes
3-point powder coated strut tower brace
G-load brace

Racecraft sub-frame connectors

Saleen Racecraft progressive rate front/rear coil springs
Saleen Racecraft front struts
Saleen strut mounting busings
Saleen Racecraft rear shocks
Saleen Racecraft quad shocks
Saleen urethane sway bar pivot bushings
Saleen 5-spoke alloy wheels by Speedline
Front: 17"x8", Rear: 17"x9"
5-lug bolt pattern
Original B.F. Goodrich Comp T/A Z-rated tires

Front: 225/45/17, Rear: 255/40/17


325 Horsepower, 350 lb. -ft. of Torque
5.0L EFI **** 8-CYL. Egine
Optional Polished Saleen Supercharger System
7lbs of boost
Vortech bypass valve
Saleen/Vortch adjustable timing ****
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Muscle Car Engine Shootout - Chevy Vs. Ford Showdown

We Test The Hottest Muscle Car-Era Small-Blocks
From the January, 2010 issue of Hot Rod Magazine
By Richard Holdener
Photography by Richard Holdener

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Back in the muscle car era, Ford and Chevy slugged it out for small-block supremacy. But which one actually built the most powerful engines? Memories may differ from the actual reality, so naturally a shootout was the only way to properly compare these legendary small-blocks. So that's what we did.

*We built exact replicas of each of the most famous small-blocks from back in the day and tested them against each other on the dyno at Westech Performance in Mira Loma, California. Read on to find out which engine won each round.

Year: 1969
Ford Boss 302 Vs. Chevy DZ 302
The history of the Trans-Am series is well documented. Unfortunately, the actual performance, or at least the real power output, of Chevy's and Ford's sub-5.0L street motors is somewhat less so. It seems that every article ever written about either the Boss 302 or the DZ 302 always mentions the same thing: Though originally rated at 290 hp, these 302s made as much as 400 hp. Checking out the spec box, we see that the DZ 302 was essentially a 302ci version of the 365hp 327, sharing the 11.0:1 compression, Fuelie heads, and even the Duntov 30-30 cam. Also present were the aluminum high-rise intake and Holley 780-cfm carb. As impressive as the specs were on the Chevy 302, Ford's Boss 302 stepped up things with a pair of production four-barrel Cleveland cylinder heads that flowed as well as a fully ported set of Chevy race heads of the period. Compared with the Chevy, the Boss 302 was down slightly in compression (10.5:1 versus 11.0:1) and down in cam duration at 0.050 (228 degrees versus 254 degrees) but up in valve lift (0.514 versus 0.485). Both shared impressive induction systems, but the Boss 302 heads allowed it to not only overcome the deficit in compression and cam timing but also actually outperform the Chevy 302.
Our pair of 302ci small-blocks was run at Westech on the Superflow 902 in the same configuration, meaning no accessories, an electric water pump, and 1 3/4-inch, long-tube headers. Both motors were run with the same 750 Holley Street HP-series carburetor used previously on the 327 and 289. Naturally, both motors were subjected to timing sweeps as well.

First on the pump was the Chevy DZ 302. Rated at 290 hp, the DZ 302 pumped out 356 hp at 6,700 rpm and 333 lb-ft at 4,400 rpm. Where the Boss 302 never reached 325 lb-ft of torque production, the Chevy exceeded 325 lb-ft from 4,000 rpm to 5,200 rpm. The Chevy was certainly the king of the midrange.

Much has been written about the huge ports and valves used on the Boss 302, but the little Boss actually produced more torque at 3,000 rpm than the smaller-port DZ motor. Most important to Ford fans, the Boss 302 produced more ultimate power than the Chevy with peak numbers of 372 hp at 6,800 rpm. The peak torque of 324 lb-ft offered by the Boss was down compared with the DZ, but from 5,800 rpm to 7,000 rpm (and beyond), the Boss was the boss.

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Specs At A Glance

'69 DZ 302 '69 Boss 302

Displacement 302 ci 302 ci Rated output,

290 hp at 5,800 290 hp at 5,800

290 lb-ft at 4,200 290 lb-ft at 4,300

Bore/stroke 4.0/3.00 4.0/3.00

Compression 11.0:1 10.5:1

2/4 bolt block 4 4

Crank Forged Forged

Rod length 5.7 5.15

Rod Forged Forged

Head casting No. 186 C9ZE-A

Chamber volume 61 to 64 cc 61 to 64 cc

Valve sizes 2.02/1.60 2.23/1.71

Peak flow rates (intake/exhaust) 210/146 274/176

Cam Solid Solid

Cam lift (gross) 0.485 0.514

Cam duration (0.050) 254 228

Cam lobe separation 114 114

Intake manifold Dual-plane Dual-plane

Aluminum Aluminum

Carb Holley 4150 4V Holley 4150 4V

Carb rating 780 cfm 780 cfm

TESTED OUTPUT, 356 hp at 6,700 372 hp at 6,800

TESTED OUTPUT, torque 333 lb-ft at 4,400 325 lb-ft at 4,200

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Based on the above info from Hot Rod Magazine, the FAPSD spec Z/28 performance is:

V 1969 Z/28, @351 HP, 4.10 rear axle ratio, 13.29 sec, 110 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.... V

V 1970 Camaro SS 396 tribute, 375HP, 4.10 rear axle, 13.79 sec, 105 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. V

Edited by user Monday, February 3, 2014 10:39:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#16 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2014 12:17:47 PM(UTC)
Big Skki, this first ones for you....

1969 Nova SS396, stock engine, 3.73 rear axle, 13.71 sec., 105 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. V

2006 Dodge SRT10 Ram, stock engine, 4.11 rear axle, 13.68 sec, 106 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. V

1970 Chevy El Camino SS454, stock, 3.73 rear axle, 13.81 sec, 105 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. V

1969 Yenko 427 Nova tribute. 450HP, 4.10 rear axle ratio, 12.91 sec e.t., 112 mph, 1/4 mile....(paint by camaroboy68ss)

Yenko L72 427 Nova details and specs as provided by Chevy High-Performance magazine:

1969 Chevrolet Yenko Camaro Front Passenger Side

If there were ever a car that went just a little too far, this Yenko green mamba is it. Back then, the 427 was king of the Rats, but it was almost diabolical to sell one packaged in Chevrolet's lightweight economy car. Even fringe-dweller Don Yenko termed these crossbreeds "lethal." They were capable of 0-60 shots in about four seconds; when outfitted with headers and slicks, they'd rage the quarter-mile in the high 10s. The following year, he built only the Yenko Deuce, a Nova that used the new 350ci LT1 small-block for motivation in an attempt to skirt what had become an insurance nightmare with any big-block car associated with his name.

The 7.0L Mk IV engine was first introduced for 1966 in fullsized Chevy models and as a Shelby Cobra-fighting additive in the Corvette. With the L71's Tri-power intake and performance visibility, it was a status symbol beyond measure, but most Vette owners were image-conscious poseurs rather than street fighters.

Of course, when the Camaro was introduced in 1967, Bill Jenkins hit the ground running with a 396/375-horse L78 mill under the hood of the first-year F-body, which was fine since that was the best plant Chevrolet offered in the car, and it fit well into NHRA's new-for-'67 Super Stock Eliminator. By the end of that year, a few dealers were swapping the stock engines out in favor of the bigger breather, but the 427 was still associated more with the Corvette. An L72- or L88-powered 427 Camaro on NHRA property quickly went into the Modified Production or Gasser ranks in those days.

By 1969, things got even more radical. The backdoor access to the COPO (central office production order) codes had now resulted in dozens of 427 Camaros (as well as some special Chevelles and Biscaynes) powered by either an L72 iron-head/iron-block (code 9560) or a ZL1 all-aluminum block (code 9561) right off the assembly line. That same year, Ford came out swinging with the 428 Cobra Jet and Boss 429 Mustangs, but those packages never seemed to take the best advantage of their performance potential. Chrysler offered up a run of nasty 440-powered Darts, whose styling left a bit to be desired.

The Nova, sport model of the Chevy II, was not unknown in the performance world, but the advent of the Camaro had pushed it out of the spotlight. The stylish F-body was the car to be seen in. If you didn't want to be seen, the pedestrian Nova made a magnificent street sweeper when mixed with the right ingredients.

Sometime in 1969, one of only 37 twisted individuals came into Louisville, Kentucky's V.V. Cooke Chevrolet, which was part of Yenko's network, to fill out the order form for the L72 Nova. He wasn't going for black, or red, or even deep blue; no, he selected a Rallye Green (code 79) that was right off of Ken Kesey's magic bus. Today, the color is still outrageous, though the black vinyl top (also optioned) tones down its looks. In addition to the 427-inch weapon under the hood, the outfit included an M21 close-ratio four-speed and a Posi-traction 4.10:1 gearset in the 12-bolt axle.

The Yenko Super Cars (YSC) program included wheel and tire upgrades, so right off the lot the car had Torq-Thrust rims and Goodyear wide-tread rubber. The interior was standard and Spartan, featuring two black vinyl bench seats augmented by Yenko-installed Stewart-Warner gauges, some headrest decals, and little else. It was an all-business combination that wouldn't have necessarily picked up the most popular girls at school, but it might've attracted the fast ones.

As a collectible, the Nova is in a league of its own. These cars only circulate inside the inner circle of serious collectors of very limited '60s-era supercars. The last time a Yenko Nova changed hands (another that Kevin once owned), the price was $285,000, and that was for an older restoration.

Read more: http://www.chevyhiperfor...index.html#ixzz1oaOmfl1k
Read more: http://www.chevyhiperfor...index.html#ixzz1oaNLek8A

Read more: http://www.chevyhiperfor...index.html#ixzz1oaMEoLhj

1969 Chevrolet Yenko Camaro Engine

1969 Chevrolet Yenko Camaro Interior

Edited by user Thursday, January 30, 2014 11:03:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#17 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2014 9:25:52 PM(UTC)
I'm interested in getting in on this, I'm doing the 70 Baldwin Motion Camaro,
lets get some more people interested in this and get something going.
Rank: Driver's License
#18 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2014 9:51:51 PM(UTC)
Im interested. Always down for some drag racing
"Retired from Forza until 6 is released"
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#19 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2014 12:53:31 AM(UTC)
Rob I got the Baldwin SS turning 12.145 on Sedona will load the replayes later to show proof.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#20 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2014 1:26:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: cipher1962 Go to Quoted Post
Rob I got the Baldwin SS turning 12.145 on Sedona will load the replayes later to show proof.

Thanks. 12.145 is a good e.t. for a car racing in "B" bracket. You are definitely in the ballpark.

However, in the past (I will repost the old race results here over time) the racers are almost always running right at the index and within tenths of each other or very close.

Because it is bracket racing, it is extremely competitive, so try to get it as close to running 12.00 consistently.

Also know that most of the races are at Test Track, and usually the online races can affect the time you achieve.

Finally, as I stated in the Legacy forum, I am currently working in another city away from home, and did not bring my Xbox.

The series will likely start back up in the spring, but just keep an eye on it.

Remember, you can build a car for each bracket (most regulars did), but you must follow the FAPSD rule book.

Oh yeah, in the interest of time, only one bracket is raced, per race weekend. We usually get done in about an hour.

And you have to follow the thread, because races are usually are bi-weekly, NOT every week.


Edited by user Tuesday, January 28, 2014 11:07:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#21 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2014 9:46:20 AM(UTC)

^ 1957 Ford T-Bird, Paxton S/C, 320HP, 3.91 rear axle, 13.79 sec., 105 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 1957 Chevy Bel Air, 283HP, FI engine, 3 spd, 4.10 rear gear, 96 mph, 14.68 sec, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 2002 Firebird CETA edition, 345 HP option, 3.42 rear axle, 13.71 secs., 104 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 1970 Mustang Mach 1 tribute with 429 SCJ, stock HP, 4.88 rear axle, 13.51 sec., 104 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 2002 Camaro SS CME, 345HP option, 3.73 rear axle, 13.67 sec, 105 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

FAPSD originals

^ 1969 Dodge Charger Daytona, stock HP, 4.36 rear axle, 13.71 sec., 105 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 1957 T-Bird, stock HP, 3.23 rear axle, 14.62 sec., 99 mph., 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 1990 IROC Camaro, stock HP, 3.73 rear axle., 14.69 sec., 97 mph., 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 1960 Corvette, stock HP., 4.11 rear axle., 13.69 sec., 104 mph., 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 2003 Saleen Mustang S281, 365HP, 3.08 rear axle ratio, 13.29 sec., 109 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. ^

^ 1993 Mustang Cobra, stock HP, 3.55 rear axle, 14.79 sec., 95 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 1965 Mustang GT Hi Po, stock HP, 3.50 rear axle, 14.08 sec., 101 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 1973 Ford Falcon GT, stock HP, 3.55 rear axle, 14.43 sec., 99 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 1969 Pontiac T/A Ram Air IV, stock HP, 3.55 rear axle, 14.0 sec., 103 MPH, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 2012 Dodge Charger SRT8 "Super Bee", stock HP, 3.54 rear axle ratio, 12.94 sec, 112 mph, 1/4 mile e.t.

^ 1969 Oldsmobile 442, "Hurst edition", stock HP, 3.73 rear axle ratio, 13.81 sec, 103 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. ^

^ 1969 Dodge Charger R/T, stock HP, 3.91 rear axle ratio, 14.17 sec, 102 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. ^

^ Plymouth Cuda Hemi, stock engine, 3.54 rear axle ratio, 13.66 sec., 107 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. ^

^ 1968 Shelby Mustang GT500KR (King of the Road), stock HP, 4.11 rear axle, 13.75 sec, 104 mph, 1/4 mile e.t. ^

Edited by user Sunday, February 16, 2014 12:16:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Burn rubber, not your soul!
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#22 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2014 10:09:38 AM(UTC)
REPOST of previous race. The very first one. 4/22/12


FAPSD "F" bracket race. 14.30-14.99 index

Great racing in the FAPSD! Small but very competitive turnout at the Test track!

Ran the F bracket/index which was extremely close and competative!

*F bracket/index Winner and Champion is Camaroboy68SS!
1957 Bel Air 283 Fuel Injected, 2 spd combo! V

Camaroboy68SS ran against Big Skki in the F bracket Championship!

14.315 winning over a 14.317 on a 14.30 index!

It dosnt get any better or closer than that!

Big Skki also ran a 1957 Bel Air Fuelie, 3 spd combo, V

Next on the podium was this 1993 Mustang Cobra driven ReformedByXbox! V

Congrats on your win Dalton! Good job!

Thanks to each and every one (Kru, Skki, Jeremy, Matt, Dalton) that came out and participated

last night in the F bracket/index!

Edited by user Thursday, January 30, 2014 11:04:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#23 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2014 10:11:10 AM(UTC)
Replayes posted on SF
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2014 10:28:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: cipher1962 Go to Quoted Post
Replayes posted on SF


But what you would have to do when the racing actually starts is to send the car you build, so that it can be checked against the rule book.

It will be returned to you after verification.

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#25 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2014 10:30:41 AM(UTC)
Repost: Originally posted 4/26/12

Robluvcars1 says:

Hi folks.

The next FAPSD race will be with E bracket cars that will compete for victory!

"E" bracket is cars that run in the 13.6-14.29. Anything faster than 13.60 is a break out.

There are lots of cars on the SF that are competitive in this bracket.

*Please review the new rules change effective immediately on page 1, if you plan to compete.

Cars must be FAPSD approved to compete.

Edited by user Tuesday, January 28, 2014 11:02:51 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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