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Rank: Driver's Permit
#101 Posted : Sunday, February 7, 2016 11:51:12 AM(UTC)
Man, I am glad my post got moved into this thread. This has so much insight and has answered a lot of my questions regarding scoring and division levels. Guess I am going to need to start running in Rivals a lot more, as well as keep competing in leagues. I generally finish around top 3 on a clean race, but in the professional league, so many people are willing to dive bomb the corners, or just race dirty and push you off the track, that I am forced to try and make it to mid pack, from dead last, cause someone ran me off. I cant wait to get into Elite.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#102 Posted : Sunday, February 7, 2016 12:49:51 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: John E Bravo 1 Go to Quoted Post
Man, I am glad my post got moved into this thread. This has so much insight and has answered a lot of my questions regarding scoring and division levels. Guess I am going to need to start running in Rivals a lot more, as well as keep competing in leagues. I generally finish around top 3 on a clean race, but in the professional league, so many people are willing to dive bomb the corners, or just race dirty and push you off the track, that I am forced to try and make it to mid pack, from dead last, cause someone ran me off. I cant wait to get into Elite.


If you feel your quick enough to be in a higher league but are losing out because of the poor driving of others, try ghost league for a while to move up division then go back to contact league.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#103 Posted : Sunday, February 7, 2016 1:16:41 PM(UTC)
I have thought about it, but I was not a fan of the last ghost league class. Now that it is V8 supercars I probably will. I am just in general a bigger fan of contact. Even if I get knocked out regularly, I love the challenge of having to adjust your line around a slower driver than just driving through their ghost.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#104 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2016 7:12:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HamanEggz Go to Quoted Post
This gets kind of frustrating. I was racing in a lobby with 5 people. Progress to second place, there for a couple laps. Good for 400 points right, wrong! Last three people quit, I'm down to a hundred. Points should be handed out based on final standings as determined by how many people actually started the race, regardless of who dnf's. If someone rage quits, why do I lose points. It's even worse when it happens in Pinnacle as points are even harder to come by.

Is there a reason the point system works this way?

Also, is there a way of finding out your Trueskill score?


Now this I agree with - points should be allotted based on the original starting lineup, not the final count minus DNFs!!!! Let's take heed from the pinnacle of motorsports, F1.

" If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari. "
- Gilles Villeneuve





Rank: A-Class Racing License
#105 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2016 8:11:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RBW TRITON Go to Quoted Post
I admire all the work and hypothesis that has gone into how players move and are rated in Leagues. Some really great stuff. Fortunately, as I will explain, it is actually much more simple.

Divisions - You are placed/moved into a division based on the TruSkill you've developed for Leagues. The more you win, the more your TruSkill increases, the more you are at the back of the pack the more it decreases. Leagues has a separate TruSkill rating than Hoppers as we figured some may race differently between the two. Some have noted that they were pre-placed into a Division the first time they played Leagues. If you had never played Leagues before, we use your Hopper TruSkill to make sure you started approximately where you should. Once your TruSkill in Leagues is verifed, it switches to using the TruSkill for Leagues exclusively from there on out.

Leaderboards - Points are awarded as your finish position inverted + bonus points for any players you finish in front of that have a higher skill rating for you. Your Leaderboard finish position has no impact to the Division you are assigned. It is there to capture your progress, payout for your effort and track competing against other players.

Hope this helps clear it up.

- Triton


Thanks for making this information available, but you should provide it and other helpful tips on how leagues work in a separate thread with a descriptive heading and place as a main topic as Manteomax has done with key forum topics. That will be helpful to us all!

" If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari. "
- Gilles Villeneuve





Rank: Driver's Permit
#106 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2016 9:30:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FORMULA ONE 44 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HamanEggz Go to Quoted Post
This gets kind of frustrating. I was racing in a lobby with 5 people. Progress to second place, there for a couple laps. Good for 400 points right, wrong! Last three people quit, I'm down to a hundred. Points should be handed out based on final standings as determined by how many people actually started the race, regardless of who dnf's. If someone rage quits, why do I lose points. It's even worse when it happens in Pinnacle as points are even harder to come by.

Is there a reason the point system works this way?

Also, is there a way of finding out your Trueskill score?


Now this I agree with - points should be allotted based on the original starting lineup, not the final count minus DNFs!!!! Let's take heed from the pinnacle of motorsports, F1.



Well, F1 really only gives points to the top ten, so I highly doubt the field of ~20 at the start will halve itself by race end.

Edited by user Thursday, February 18, 2016 9:46:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#107 Posted : Friday, February 26, 2016 5:50:54 AM(UTC)
Just wondering how league setting works. I recently started playing the league games and so did my cousin. I have raced online and single player longer than he and lap times are a little faster and cleaner than his but he was put straight into elite league with simulation damage whereas I was not. Not that I mind lol but said I would ask on his behalf. Thanks.
Rank: On the Podium
#108 Posted : Friday, February 26, 2016 6:06:29 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IrishDirtydog Go to Quoted Post
Just wondering how league setting works. I recently started playing the league games and so did my cousin. I have raced online and single player longer than he and lap times are a little faster and cleaner than his but he was put straight into elite league with simulation damage whereas I was not. Not that I mind lol but said I would ask on his behalf. Thanks.


http://forums.forzamotor...res-FAQ.aspx#post_342513

Quote:
Leagues are a separate group of multiplayer hoppers designed for competitive ranking and payouts. Each league typically runs for seven days and is open during specific windows each day. Players are assigned to one of five divisions for each league, earn points for each race, and receive credit payouts for their rank on the division leaderboard when the league ends.

Divisions
1 - Pinnacle
2 - Elite
3 - Professional
4 - Enthusiast
5 - Grassroots

If you have never played Leagues before, FM6 uses your regular multiplayer Hopper TrueSkill to place you in a starting division. Once your TrueSkill in Leagues is verifed, it switches to using the TrueSkill for Leagues exclusively from there on out (unaffected by Career and regular Hopper performance). The more you win, the more your TrueSkill increases, the more you are at the back of the pack the more it decreases. Leaderboard finish position has no impact to the Division you are assigned. TrueSkill score is not visible to players.

--

Our goal with League racing is to have players always have multiplayer matches that are geared to their skill. To do that, we are organizing players into different skill-based Driver Divisions. All players will begin at the lowest division when they first start playing in Leagues and more skilled players will quickly move up into their appropriate divisions. Each time a player races, we recalculate his or her skill level by comparing how that player finishes among the other players in a race. The more races you win or place highly in, the better the chance you’ll move up to a new League division. Once a League begins, players will remain in that league until the League has completed. When the new set of Leagues is set, each player’s Driver Division will be reviewed and players will potentially be reclassified based on their current skill level. In addition to skill level, League players will be organized by their temperament levels, which will ensure that clean drivers will be paired with other clean drivers, while players who tend to enjoy more contact will be racing with similar style opponents.

Driver Division will also control which League events players have access to. A newer, less skilled driver won’t be able to see or have access to the same League events available to elite-skill players. This allows us to create race events that fit for different players, tailoring the cars and tracks to the most appropriate skill levels.
Rank: On the Podium
 1 user liked this post.
#109 Posted : Friday, February 26, 2016 6:12:50 AM(UTC)
From the game FAQ thread:

Quote:
In addition to skill level, League players will be organized by their temperament levels, which will ensure that clean drivers will be paired with other clean drivers, while players who tend to enjoy more contact will be racing with similar style opponents.


This goes directly against what TrueSkill does. TrueSkill only looks at results when deciding rank and potential matchmaking solutions. A driver who's very aggressive while also very successful will end up in Pinnacle.


Quote:
In addition to a regular cadence of updated Race Leagues, we’ll also be creating special events that will give players of all skill levels the chance to compete. Whether it’s with one-off series tied to real-world race weekends or invite-only events featuring the best racers in the world, Online Leagues promises to be an incredibly exciting, and always changing, new feature in the game."


I haven't seen anything of the sort come up in the past 6 months.


Quote:
For League lobbies, we will be giving access to select broadcasters so that they can broadcast (i.e. via Twitch) spectated Leagues races on their own channels."


I would assume that this means a well-known streamer would gain access to Divisions he is not currently qualified for so that he can stream races he is spectating (eg: Raceboy, who drives in Pinnacle, could stream Elite League races). To the best of my knowledge this has not happened at all since launch, and almost every person I see who streams Forza streams their own gameplay rather than spectated races.
Rank: Driver's License
#110 Posted : Friday, February 26, 2016 7:02:03 AM(UTC)
That's what we thought but he was straight to elite league division and has only ever raced online with me before and is around same as me or perhaps half a second to 2 seconds slower. Not a problem I just wondered if he could do anything about it. Fair play though cause he stuck with it even though he gets taken out and has to pit most races even though they are only three laps. Thanks for the reply.
Rank: Racing Permit
#111 Posted : Friday, February 26, 2016 8:03:08 AM(UTC)
I'm not even sure what the order of the leagues are to be honest, apparently I race in Pinnacle but I'm not sure whats above or below me and in what order?
Rank: Forza Staff
#112 Posted : Friday, February 26, 2016 8:49:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post


I've edited the FAQ post to put a quote box around the original announcement text and make it a little more clear that description came before the game was released.

Community Manager | ManteoMax.com Forza spreadsheets
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#113 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 10:34:40 AM(UTC)
I was moved into the Professional league then moved back into Enthusiast after just one week in the Professional League? What gives??? I though the rules said that you stay in your league until you progress out of it to the next league???
" If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari. "
- Gilles Villeneuve





Rank: Racing Legend
#114 Posted : Monday, February 29, 2016 2:51:47 PM(UTC)
Depends on how you perform in that league
You can promoted and demoted depending on your league participation and the position you finish in
If you are like me and hardly can get into a lobby because of network issues i dont participate in leagues often
Rank: Driver's License
#115 Posted : Sunday, March 20, 2016 3:01:16 PM(UTC)
Why not show us our true skill number?
Why can't we see our win/loss stats for online races?

Seems like pretty basic information to show.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#116 Posted : Sunday, March 20, 2016 3:28:54 PM(UTC)
True skill isn't shown anymore because people were getting kicked from lobbys because sometimes the rest of the players in the lobby thought your true skill rank was too high.
Rank: Driver's License
#117 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2016 6:37:11 AM(UTC)
1. Can you only move up or down a division by racing in leagues?

2. Does other racers wrecking you, have any affect on your division? Meaning, if I'm not the cause of a wreck, but involved in the wreck, does that count against me?

3. I ask because I have actually raced better in the last 10 days, and actually moved down a division.

4. Not adept at searching on this forum, but my limited search results didn't seem to answer these questions.

If you can shed some light on these subjects, I'd appreciate it.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#118 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2016 6:51:23 AM(UTC)
As far as I've read (based on what T10 employees have written)

1) Yes. Your initial division placing is based on your general TrueSkill score, but once you start racing in Leagues you get a separate League TrueSkill score and your subsequent placement is based on that.

2) How you drive has no effect, only your finishing position relative to everyone else (beating people with higher TrueSkill helps more, getting beat by people with lower TrueSkill hurts more)

3) No idea. Maybe you did badly enough +10 days ago that your improved performance since then wasn't enough to rescue your score before the new Leagues were released.

Rank: On the Podium
#119 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2016 6:56:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rindarko Go to Quoted Post
1. Can you only move up or down a division by racing in leagues?


Yes.

Quote:
2. Does other racers wrecking you, have any affect on your division? Meaning, if I'm not the cause of a wreck, but involved in the wreck, does that count against me?


No. Placement is purely results-based. If you wreck the entire field and win it's the same as racing cleanly and winning.
Rank: Driver's License
#120 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2016 7:08:41 AM(UTC)
Thanks for the replies! Clears things up for me.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#121 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2016 10:14:32 PM(UTC)
Yesterday I looked after a week of non playing Forza to the new Leagues.

Something strange is happened there. I'm in the Lambo league (fri-mon) on professional and now for the new leagues I'm demoted to the fan class ? I thought promotion/degradation was regulated by playing and therefor the change of Trueskill. But how can Trueskill change without playing.

Not very motivating in this way.
Rank: Racing Legend
#122 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2016 11:08:30 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SqlServerFan Go to Quoted Post
Yesterday I looked after a week of non playing Forza to the new Leagues.

Something strange is happened there. I'm in the Lambo league (fri-mon) on professional and now for the new leagues I'm demoted to the fan class ? I thought promotion/degradation was regulated by playing and therefor the change of Trueskill. But how can Trueskill change without playing.

Not very motivating in this way.


Is it possible that in the last league you raced in you were not good enough to maintain your level?
I blame the ants.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#123 Posted : Monday, March 21, 2016 11:19:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SqlServerFan Go to Quoted Post
Yesterday I looked after a week of non playing Forza to the new Leagues.

Something strange is happened there. I'm in the Lambo league (fri-mon) on professional and now for the new leagues I'm demoted to the fan class ? I thought promotion/degradation was regulated by playing and therefor the change of Trueskill. But how can Trueskill change without playing.

Not very motivating in this way.


Is it possible that in the last league you raced in you were not good enough to maintain your level?


No,that is not possible. I am in the Lambo league on the old level. I didn't play for one week at all. So also not in the Lambo league. I didn't play multiplayer either.
So when I looked yesterday : I saw Porsche league (no division), Lambo (pro), ghost and other league (fan). All leagues has the 'NEW'-logo. So I didn't enter them.

Edited by user Monday, March 21, 2016 11:22:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#124 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:52:47 PM(UTC)
Hi Guys,

I've got a league related question around moving divisions. From memory, I basically moved straight to Pinnacle in no time at all when the game came out - then I had a break from Forza for a good few months. I'm now back and getting my butt kicked in Pinnacle (finishing mid to end of field) - so will it take long for me to move down a division? In a lot of races my fastest lap could be still 2-3 secs slower than the person who wins.

I guess I need to practice a heap, but in the meantime I wouldn't mind dropping to a level that's closer to my current skill level (or lack there of! haha).

Cheers,

Dodgy

Edited by user Tuesday, March 22, 2016 4:54:20 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#125 Posted : Tuesday, March 22, 2016 5:17:09 PM(UTC)
Dodgy. I think you'll be stuck, if I remember you were fairly fast.

Yes technically it's possible to move down but I think (not positive) that the boundaries of pinnacle and elite were moved to get more equal lobby sizes.

So if you made it into pinnacle before your probably here to stay. Hope to see you on the track at some point.

Good luck
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