Rank: Driver's Permit
#1 Posted : Wednesday, October 7, 2015 3:56:56 AM(UTC)
Hej,

I'm using the thrustmaster 458 spider wheel for forza 6 and the sensitivity just seems to be extreme. Im using the 4th setting for sensitivity + normal driving(tho i use simulation on my controller) but i'm not having any succes.

I understand that the wheel only has 240 degrees turn ratio instead of the 900 from more professional wheels but still it should not be that hard to make it a bit less sensitive because the 458 steering wheel seems to be using its full steering force already at around 65 - 70 degrees instead of the 120.

Any change we can see this patched in the near future?

Thanks in advance

Edited by user Wednesday, October 7, 2015 3:58:14 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#2 Posted : Wednesday, October 7, 2015 1:01:41 PM(UTC)
Works fine for me on the second highest sensitivity, but I don't think I ever turn the wheel further than 60-70 degrees. I just wish the pedals weren't so damn light. :D
Rank: Driver's Permit
#3 Posted : Thursday, October 8, 2015 7:43:40 AM(UTC)
I agree, I am using the same wheel, also on the 4th sens setting (4 light flashes) and I think the steering is quite smooth and nice right until the wheel physically hits about 60* left or right. When in cockpit cam, the in-car wheel matches my rotations from 0-~50*, but as soon as I pass that 60* (approx) point, the driver flips the wheel to full lock in either direction and the tires start squealing. This is acrtually kind of nice in a 4wheel drive like the Subaru WRX B22 in inducing slides, but in a RWD car is very unpredictable.

I have also changed my Wheel Deadzones to 0-100, and also my brake/throttle pedal deadzones, not sure if I changed anything else.

I hope something is done about this so that the full range of motion of the wheel becomes useable. Currently it is very arcade-y and not very impressive.

@zomgfast: how do you play with the wheel at 2 flashes? Seems like you'd barely have to twitch in any direction to make a turn. Also for your light pedals, I personally like it but try increasing your minimum brake/throttle deadzone up to like 15 or 20 so that you actually have to move the pedals a bit before they register.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#4 Posted : Thursday, October 8, 2015 1:13:50 PM(UTC)
Thanks for your reactions guys, like you already said opticalhercules the first 50 till 60 degrees feel really smooth and manageable. But the last 60 degrees pretty much cant be used at all because at 65 degrees its already turning at full force.
I don't really care to much for it to be arcady because i know its not a professional 900 degree wheel and the price also doesn't suggest it is. But most of the time i just feel like im better off with my controller atm.
Hope we can get an reaction from turn10 on this small but pretty annoying issue.

Edited by user Thursday, October 8, 2015 1:14:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#5 Posted : Friday, October 9, 2015 7:28:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HeilMosselman Go to Quoted Post

I don't really care to much for it to be arcady because i know its not a professional 900 degree wheel and the price also doesn't suggest it is.


Just because it's not a $300+ wheel doesn't mean the full range of motion shouldn't be useful. It's possible in other games, should be in this one as well.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#6 Posted : Friday, October 9, 2015 9:44:46 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: OpticalHercules Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HeilMosselman Go to Quoted Post

I don't really care to much for it to be arcady because i know its not a professional 900 degree wheel and the price also doesn't suggest it is.


Just because it's not a $300+ wheel doesn't mean the full range of motion shouldn't be useful. It's possible in other games, should be in this one as well.


Yup you are totally right in that.
Rank: Racing Permit
#7 Posted : Friday, October 9, 2015 1:08:41 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: OpticalHercules Go to Quoted Post
Also for your light pedals, I personally like it but try increasing your minimum brake/throttle deadzone up to like 15 or 20 so that you actually have to move the pedals a bit before they register.


What I meant was the base is really light and slides around (and the brake is really stiff so that doesn't help). Anyway, since I've read this thread, I've been spinning out in every slow turn due to this. Thanks guys!
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Friday, October 9, 2015 8:06:48 PM(UTC)
I have this same wheel and when I first got it, it was very difficult to use sensitivity 1, but if you go into telemetry, you will see that this is actually the most linear setting. On sensitivity 4, which is most certainly not linear, the last few degrees represent so much in-game that it gives the behavior you are seeing (which is probably more apparent while driving). Sensitivity 4 probably uses a cubic or exponential acceleration function since the wheel itself has a very limited range.

Like zomgfast, I use sensitivity 2 because it's a good compromise and it doesn't start to really ramp until you are passed the point that one typically uses in most racing. With the limited range of the wheel, I don't think there's much they can do to "fix" the issue you are seeing and still provide 100% steering at sensitivity 4.

Just to check, I did load up the game and try all of the settings with telemetry and even on sensitivity 4 I had to turn the wheel to 100% IRL to make it turn 100% in-game. I never saw an instance where less than 100% IRL resulted in 100% in-game. More or less. This is with dead-zones at 0/100. There is a little bit of slop, but it's a $90 wheel, so it's expected.

Try checking your inputs in the telemetry screen and give sensitivity 2 a try as well. Initially it will probably feel twitchy if you are used to sensitivity 4 but it might work better for you after some practice.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#9 Posted : Saturday, October 10, 2015 7:51:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Gordon GEICO Go to Quoted Post
There is a little bit of slop, but it's a $90 wheel, so it's expected.



No, it's not expected. Project Cars makes 100% full use of the range of motion on any sensitivity setting. In the documentation included with the wheel (for Froza 5, same deal for Forza 6, I assume) it says to set the wheel to sensitivity level 4, maybe level 3 for proper range of motion and control. The wheel also does not behave this way in Forza 5. Unless I am able to tell the game that I am using a 900* wheel (currently not adjustable) then using on sensitivity 1 or 2 would be nearly impossible for me, and you would only ever use the first 20 or degrees of motion in either direction to get full steering lock.

I don't think there is any sensor difference in the 458 Spider than in the TX. The only difference between the wheels are the gear-drive for the TX and the bungie tension system for the Spider. There's no reason that the wheel should have less than full range of motion on any sensitivity setting.

I waited till after release for stuff like this to get worked out. I did pre-release on PCars and paid the price for it with all of their bugs. Likely I'll just return this game for another month or so and then come back later when the used price drops another tier and see if it's working then.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Saturday, October 10, 2015 3:19:09 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: OpticalHercules Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Gordon GEICO Go to Quoted Post
There is a little bit of slop, but it's a $90 wheel, so it's expected.



No, it's not expected. Project Cars makes 100% full use of the range of motion on any sensitivity setting. In the documentation included with the wheel (for Froza 5, same deal for Forza 6, I assume) it says to set the wheel to sensitivity level 4, maybe level 3 for proper range of motion and control. The wheel also does not behave this way in Forza 5. Unless I am able to tell the game that I am using a 900* wheel (currently not adjustable) then using on sensitivity 1 or 2 would be nearly impossible for me, and you would only ever use the first 20 or degrees of motion in either direction to get full steering lock.

I don't think there is any sensor difference in the 458 Spider than in the TX. The only difference between the wheels are the gear-drive for the TX and the bungie tension system for the Spider. There's no reason that the wheel should have less than full range of motion on any sensitivity setting.

I waited till after release for stuff like this to get worked out. I did pre-release on PCars and paid the price for it with all of their bugs. Likely I'll just return this game for another month or so and then come back later when the used price drops another tier and see if it's working then.


When I said slop, I only meant a couple of degrees, and it is expected because it does not have a motor to keep the wheel perfectly aligned and calibrated, it's got a rubber band.

Furthermore, what my post was meant to convey is I certainly get the full range of motion with the wheel. It's just that at sensitivity 4, the wheel is at its least linear, so the last half of the movement is going to seem a lot faster than the first half. My recommendation is to check the telemetry screen (where you can see the steering input) and judge whether or not the movement is what you actually think it is. I spent a good bit of time last night testing every sensitivity setting and they all worked as expected when you try to understand what a sensitivity setting against a fixed, very limited, amount of overall range can do. To that end, give sensitivity setting 2 a try because it is more linear than 4 and as a result, you get to use more of the wheel's already short range. If you are used to racing with 4, it will take some time to adjust, but once you get used to 2, it should feel better.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#11 Posted : Sunday, October 11, 2015 6:58:21 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Gordon GEICO Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: OpticalHercules Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Gordon GEICO Go to Quoted Post
There is a little bit of slop, but it's a $90 wheel, so it's expected.



No, it's not expected. Project Cars makes 100% full use of the range of motion on any sensitivity setting. In the documentation included with the wheel (for Froza 5, same deal for Forza 6, I assume) it says to set the wheel to sensitivity level 4, maybe level 3 for proper range of motion and control. The wheel also does not behave this way in Forza 5. Unless I am able to tell the game that I am using a 900* wheel (currently not adjustable) then using on sensitivity 1 or 2 would be nearly impossible for me, and you would only ever use the first 20 or degrees of motion in either direction to get full steering lock.

I don't think there is any sensor difference in the 458 Spider than in the TX. The only difference between the wheels are the gear-drive for the TX and the bungie tension system for the Spider. There's no reason that the wheel should have less than full range of motion on any sensitivity setting.

I waited till after release for stuff like this to get worked out. I did pre-release on PCars and paid the price for it with all of their bugs. Likely I'll just return this game for another month or so and then come back later when the used price drops another tier and see if it's working then.


When I said slop, I only meant a couple of degrees, and it is expected because it does not have a motor to keep the wheel perfectly aligned and calibrated, it's got a rubber band.

Furthermore, what my post was meant to convey is I certainly get the full range of motion with the wheel. It's just that at sensitivity 4, the wheel is at its least linear, so the last half of the movement is going to seem a lot faster than the first half. My recommendation is to check the telemetry screen (where you can see the steering input) and judge whether or not the movement is what you actually think it is. I spent a good bit of time last night testing every sensitivity setting and they all worked as expected when you try to understand what a sensitivity setting against a fixed, very limited, amount of overall range can do. To that end, give sensitivity setting 2 a try because it is more linear than 4 and as a result, you get to use more of the wheel's already short range. If you are used to racing with 4, it will take some time to adjust, but once you get used to 2, it should feel better.


My mistake, and apologies. I read your statement as saying the DoR imperfections are to be expected because it's a $90 wheel. As far as the deadzone slop, I personally do not notice any DZ at all when I set 0 DZ on Project Cars. I HAVE to set 2-3* of deadzone in there or I tend to twitch my way down every straight.

I understand the linear/progressive curve of DoR input. My problem with that is when set to Wheel Sensitivity (flashy light) 1 or 2, the rate of turn is so extreme that I only ever use the first 10-15 degrees in either direction. At Sensitivity 4 (as suggested by Thrustmaster's own documentation), I am able to turn the wheel with very accurate correlation to what's happening in Cockpit cam wheel up until about 60* L/R. Past that point the in-game wheel shows full lock even though there's still another 60* or so rotation left on the physical wheel. Again, it's proven that this is not a wheel problem, as the wheel works perfectly with other games, F1 2015, PCars, and Forza 5 (I don't know about FH2... played for 20 mins and returned it). The fact that it does work properly with Forza5 tells me it's a game problem with Forza6, not even a Turn10 problem.

Rank: Racing Permit
#12 Posted : Thursday, October 15, 2015 12:55:02 PM(UTC)
I'm having the exact same issue, and would love to get a fix from Turn 10 on it. If you use the in car view, the wheel is at full lock (on four flashes) when the wheel in MY hands is at maybe 50-60 degrees or less. I have asked Thrustmaster for a setting that they've found to work, but that didn't go anywhere. I will try to use the two flash sensitivity again, but when I did this during my initial attempts at making the wheel useable, that proved to be pretty quick and darty. I will post Thrustmaster's response, but it basically says, get with Turn 10. I too have tried the wheel with Project CARS, and it worked fine, right out of the box, no adjustment at all. It is still a lame wheel, IMHO, but it's all I can swing right now, and I'm really bummed that it's so frustrating to use with FM6. I've gone back to the controller and wasted $80 I could have saved for a better wheel with adjustable rotation and FFB. I'm really disappointed that it is claimed as being developed with, and endorsed by, Microsoft and Turn 10. I find that it is basically useless, as trying to restrict the range before it slams to full lock is just not natural, and then if you do happen to sneak outside that range, boom, you are at full lock and headed towards the wall, then of course you overcorrect and here we go.

Give us cheapy wheel guys a fix, T10!!

Here's Thrustmaster's advice, for whatever entertainment value that may provide:


Regarding your Ferrari 458 Italia.

We thank you for your choice of Thrustmaster products and for reaching us regarding your issue.
As long as the telemetry shows that the input received by the console is the same as the one you are generating on the actual rim and if this happens only in this game then the issue is caused by the actual game.
For a more accurate test please check the unit's functions with the computer, under Game Controllers Panel.
On the console make sure that all the updates for the OS of the console and for the games have been installed.
For additional details we recommend you contacting the game developer as well.
We rest at your disposal for any other inquiries.



Rank: Driver's Permit
#13 Posted : Tuesday, December 22, 2015 8:12:50 PM(UTC)
Has anybody had any luck getting past the 60 degree full lock either way?
Rank: Driver's Permit
#14 Posted : Tuesday, March 17, 2020 1:25:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: zomgfast Go to Quoted Post
Works fine for me on the second highest sensitivity, but I don't think I ever turn the wheel further than 60-70 degrees. I just wish the pedals weren't so damn light. :D


I don't have a problem with the pedals, just the 'wheel being a bit twitchy, the pressure on the accelerator is lighter than the brake pedal, which seems OK to me so far.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#15 Posted : Tuesday, March 17, 2020 1:37:04 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: zomgfast Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: OpticalHercules Go to Quoted Post
Also for your light pedals, I personally like it but try increasing your minimum brake/throttle deadzone up to like 15 or 20 so that you actually have to move the pedals a bit before they register.


What I meant was the base is really light and slides around (and the brake is really stiff so that doesn't help). Anyway, since I've read this thread, I've been spinning out in every slow turn due to this. Thanks guys!


I got a simple driving wheel frame, it was cheap and yes, the pedals just slid around on the base all the time, despite the rubber pads on the base on the bottom of the pedals.
My solution was to get some 3M double-sided sticky pads and some command strips, sticking the Command Strips next to the rubber pads on the pedals. The pedals with 6x small size Command Strips (12 if you consider it has 6 either side), the 3M pads are about 3mm thick and fit almost flush with the rubber pads, the command strips hold really well, and no matter how much pressure you apply to the brake and accelerator pedals, they stay stuck in position with no movement at all, rock solid.
The only issue I'm having is with the wheel being twitchy, either over or understeering. I'm sure that can be changed in the settings though, and I'd love to know a settings list of how to make the 'wheel more accurate and less twitchy.

Notification

Icon
Error