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#451 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 7:00:47 AM(UTC)
I thought this was going to be about the ghost town that Pinnacle has become. I was so excited to get there during the first Can-Am league, but only a couple leagues later the lobbies were never more than a few cars strong. Now most of the time I can't even find one when I try.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#452 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 7:05:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XtremeR Tyskie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Zedeeyen Go to Quoted Post
Nah, you get more points if your TrueSkill score is lower, or something. On my own profile I rarely get more than 2000 points even when I win in a decent-sized lobby. On my wife's profile I was getting over 4000 points for finishing 5th or 6th.


This is what's so annoying about leagues and completly unfair. It gives otherwise slower drivers the illusion there doing very well.


Keyword: Illusion.

It's the "Everyone Gets a Trophy" Generation. The game wouldn't be popular if it didn't make the players participating feel a sense of accomplishment. Are you upset that you're not hundreds of thousands of points\credits ahead of the next guy? Are you not happy unless you beat the next guy by 1,500 feet or more? It's a big world out there, with literally hundreds of thousands of players.

The faster you get the tighter the field. The difference between top level players is often hundredths of seconds. Not many people are that "special". The sooner people realize this the more realistic their sense of accomplishment will be.

Edited by user Monday, July 4, 2016 7:15:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling. Argh, my iPad is programmed to make me type like a monkey.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#453 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 7:07:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Big Red1500 Go to Quoted Post
I thought this was going to be about the ghost town that Pinnacle has become. I was so excited to get there during the first Can-Am league, but only a couple leagues later the lobbies were never more than a few cars strong. Now most of the time I can't even find one when I try.


Can am was dead because of silly track list that no 1 wanted to do. Last night's spec league had 24 in from 1800 gmt till 0000 gmt. They even stayed in afterwards and raced for no points. The leagues die off towards the end of the week. I belive that's because of the big lap time defences that become more apparent as racers get used to the cars and the prospect of a decent race or postition become even harder to achive

Edited by user Monday, July 4, 2016 7:09:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: typo

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#454 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 7:15:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RP theZOGster Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: XtremeR Tyskie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Zedeeyen Go to Quoted Post
Nah, you get more points if your TrueSkill score is lower, or something. On my own profile I rarely get more than 2000 points even when I win in a decent-sized lobby. On my wife's profile I was getting over 4000 points for finishing 5th or 6th.


This is what's so annoying about leagues and completly unfair. It gives otherwise slower drivers the illusion there doing very well.


Keyword: Illusion.

It's the "Everyone Gets a Trophy" Generation. The game wouldn't be popular if it didn't make the players participating feel a sense of acxomplishment. Are you upset that you're not hundreds of thousands of points\credits ahead of the next guy? Areyou bot happy u less you beat thenext guy by 1,500 feet or more? It's a big world out there, with literally hundreds of thousands of players.

The faster you get the tighter the field. The difference between top level players is often hundredths of seconds. Not many people are that "special". The sooner people realize this the more realistic their sense of accomplishment will be.



Sorry to double post but "everyone gets a trophy" sums up my gripe with leagues perfectly. I fear this new competition that's been talked about on here where "everyone will have a chance to win" will be just the same. It's not just forza that ended up soft but schools are exactly the same. Competiveness is frowned upon kids are not encouraged to win but to take part, do your best. This is why sport in the UK is dead and our football leagues are full of foreign tallent

Sometimes you need to be told your not good enough or do better or try harder. That's how you get better

Edited by user Monday, July 4, 2016 7:21:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: carried on ranting to myself after I pressed post

Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#455 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 7:28:23 AM(UTC)
But you're still finishing ahead of other people, right? Are you upset because you're not ahead of them by more? If 200,000 people participate in anything, the differences in their rankings will be more and more miniscule. The better you are, or the faster you are, the better your competition is going to be.

If entitlement is your gripe, aren't you showing some of that same entitlement by demanding more reward for your accomplishments?

Edited by user Monday, July 4, 2016 7:29:22 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#456 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 8:24:29 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XtremeR Tyskie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Big Red1500 Go to Quoted Post
I thought this was going to be about the ghost town that Pinnacle has become. I was so excited to get there during the first Can-Am league, but only a couple leagues later the lobbies were never more than a few cars strong. Now most of the time I can't even find one when I try.


Can am was dead because of silly track list that no 1 wanted to do. Last night's spec league had 24 in from 1800 gmt till 0000 gmt. They even stayed in afterwards and raced for no points. The leagues die off towards the end of the week. I belive that's because of the big lap time defences that become more apparent as racers get used to the cars and the prospect of a decent race or postition become even harder to achive


Maybe my location is part of it, too? For me, that's 1200-1800 and I'm still in the race shop, working. Maybe they're just aren't many players in my area.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#457 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 8:35:30 AM(UTC)
Nope leagues are dying cause there is no thought put into them and people like me are tired of it. Tired of the cheating, tired of doing the same leagues over and over. Tired of Turn 10 ignoring us. Forza 6 has been the worst Forza experience I have had. The absolute worst out off all of them in terms of gameplay. I enjoyed 5 more honestly I did. At least you could play in a hopper and not get wrecked a lot of the time. What a shame. That's all I ever really wanted out of 6. Leagues is a poor substitute and getting worse by the week.

Edited by user Monday, July 4, 2016 8:44:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#458 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 8:36:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RP theZOGster Go to Quoted Post
But you're still finishing ahead of other people, right? Are you upset because you're not ahead of them by more? If 200,000 people participate in anything, the differences in their rankings will be more and more miniscule. The better you are, or the faster you are, the better your competition is going to be.

If entitlement is your gripe, aren't you showing some of that same entitlement by demanding more reward for your accomplishments?


This isn't about entitlement. It's about encouraging everyone to do better through rewards and praising those who do get better. The current system praises everyone nearly equally and that's not right. Like I said it's not just forza it's the whole world that take this soft approach to competetivness.

I'd rather the leaderboard was closer but for the right reasons not because someone gets more points because they haven't won as many races.

Like myself and zed have said the leagues should just be a public hopper unless they going to make it fair and equal for all. That means if your not very fast your not going to do very well.
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#459 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 8:49:04 AM(UTC)
Agreed on the leagues Tyskie, they are a bit of a joke in their current iteration.

Edited by user Monday, July 4, 2016 8:50:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#460 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 8:58:09 AM(UTC)
Why put the entire post in here. We have been discussing this all afternoon and now this post will be lost with all the other stuff that gets moved. This isn't my thoughts on leagues such a Genral topic does not do the discussion any justice
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#461 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 8:58:35 AM(UTC)
They seem very "Time not skill" driven. It doesn't matter how many 1st you get. Someone can just binge all night getting non podiums and can still acquire top rankings while the "fast" racers are asleep. The amount of payout for ranking well seems out of balance as well. I can make more credits in a fraction of the time doing Rivals as at least have some bragging rights after doing so.

More racing options is never a bad thing though. It expands the game and gives options. At least they aren't set in stone and can be updated and evolve.....if the community gets listened to.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#462 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 9:10:00 AM(UTC)
It gets moved cause of not enough likes. Keep liking posts and it won't get moved so fast. Keep posting what you would like to see. Don't let up and maybe they will listen. Hammer them!!! It is our only hope for change.

Edited by user Monday, July 4, 2016 9:14:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#463 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 9:12:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GreatKazou Go to Quoted Post
They seem very "Time not skill" driven. It doesn't matter how many 1st you get. Someone can just binge all night getting non podiums and can still acquire top rankings while the "fast" racers are asleep. The amount of payout for ranking well seems out of balance as well. I can make more credits in a fraction of the time doing Rivals as at least have some bragging rights after doing so.

More racing options is never a bad thing though. It expands the game and gives options. At least they aren't set in stone and can be updated and evolve.....if the community gets listened to.


I have to hammer it friday and Saturday night just to catch up with those who have a lower TrueSkill than mine. It's certainly the competition to see who plays it the most. Thats another reason why there so disfunctional time played overide victories.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#464 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 9:20:36 AM(UTC)
Another thing I don't like is the lack of imagination put into making these leagues. They just seem to pick a random car (or car division) throw in a bunch of random tracks and just go with it. I cannot help but think people at T10 don't even follow actual motorsport because of things like this.

For example the Formula E season just ended yesterday, so why not do a week or two of Formula E leagues instead of a Porsche DLC only league? Or why not do a league with only 2014/15 LMP1s?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#465 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 9:34:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: o Mike V o Go to Quoted Post
Another thing I don't like is the lack of imagination put into making these leagues. They just seem to pick a random car (or car division) throw in a bunch of random tracks and just go with it. I cannot help but think people at T10 don't even follow actual motorsport because of things like this.

For example the Formula E season just ended yesterday, so why not do a week or two of Formula E leagues instead of a Porsche DLC only league? Or why not do a league with only 2014/15 LMP1s?


Completely agree. But this is why I made my own post and why it should not of been moved. My topic was very specific and your reply is off topic for the discussion we have been having all afternoon. But still agree completly and valid point for the post we are now forced to Co habitate

Edited by user Monday, July 4, 2016 9:35:13 AM(UTC)  | Reason: typo

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#466 Posted : Monday, July 4, 2016 10:37:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XtremeR Tyskie Go to Quoted Post
I have 999.999.999 credits. They are worthless my point is the diffrence in payout dosnt reflect your position on the leaderboard. Worthless or not if you win you should be rewarded accordingly.


Agreed that the current point scoring system needs rethinking as the winner should always be receiving more points.

Personally I would rather have an overall leader board showing true skill for the leagues with maybe stats showing the amount of 1st 2nd and 3rd place finishes and average finish position. They could have a weekly true skill rank as well, so for example each week everyone would start off at the same true skill rank for each league and the leaderboard would be ordered by highest true skill at the end of the week. After each race rather than receiving points based on finish position you would see your gain or loss in true skill points for the weekly rank. You would still have an overall trueskill rank for division placement and for the overall leaderboard. I know you could potentially lose points in a race even if you finish high up in a race but overall it should give a better representation of finishing position rather than time played.

(This is just an idea I have had whilst eating dinner probably a lot of holes in this idea)

Edited by user Monday, July 4, 2016 1:20:20 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#467 Posted : Tuesday, July 5, 2016 1:26:34 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Illl Fox lllI Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: XtremeR Tyskie Go to Quoted Post
I have 999.999.999 credits. They are worthless my point is the diffrence in payout dosnt reflect your position on the leaderboard. Worthless or not if you win you should be rewarded accordingly.


Agreed that the current point scoring system needs rethinking as the winner should always be receiving more points.

Personally I would rather have an overall leader board showing true skill for the leagues with maybe stats showing the amount of 1st 2nd and 3rd place finishes and average finish position. They could have a weekly true skill rank as well, so for example each week everyone would start off at the same true skill rank for each league and the leaderboard would be ordered by highest true skill at the end of the week. After each race rather than receiving points based on finish position you would see your gain or loss in true skill points for the weekly rank. You would still have an overall trueskill rank for division placement and for the overall leaderboard. I know you could potentially lose points in a race even if you finish high up in a race but overall it should give a better representation of finishing position rather than time played.

(This is just an idea I have had whilst eating dinner probably a lot of holes in this idea)


I agree with this so much. When I first got into leagues I managed to place first on the leader board and that was the last time I ever tried to again. It took playing day and night whenever the league was open to do this. It doesn't show who's the fastest, just shows who can play the longest. I'd like the feeling of hunting down the high ranked racers in lobbies and being rewarded for placing higher than them.

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#468 Posted : Tuesday, July 5, 2016 2:19:57 PM(UTC)
I like the racing in the leagues the best. When I do MP, I usually drive with friends, in private lobbies. If they are not available, I then go check what leagues are available. 9 out of 10 times the choice for the league is stupid, or too constricting, so I move on to the R class server usually.

How about basing at least one league per week on one of the divisions: Hot Hatch, Can Am, classic muscle cars, modern muscle cars, late model proto's, etc.

Yay, another stock league for a single Porsche... moving on...
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#469 Posted : Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:22:57 PM(UTC)
So I think I just figured out how being promoted from one league division to another is affected in this game:

You get promoted to another division when your “Truscore” based on your driving skill and race placements closer to 1st place accrues enough to surpass the threshold qualifier for the next division. What is very uncanny and unfair is that there is logic built into the promotion routine that looks at your Truscore for the first active week after being promoted to the new division that will let you remain in that division if your Truscore remains above the qualifying threshold after the end of your first active week, but will demote you back to the prior division if it drops below the qualifying threshold after your first active week. Now the question is, is that logic fair? Let’s say I’m in division Professional, and in my first active week in Elite, due to the sheer speed of polished racers in that division I am unable to maintain a Truscore above the threshold qualifier for the current division, should I be demoted back to Professional based on the results of the first active week? Isn’t the idea behind being promoted to the next division to be able to acclimate and cultivate a skillset that will allow you compete effectively with those in that division over time? Come on now, speed is not cultivated overnight but takes TIME, not one week. I’m writing this because this week makes it the 4th time that I’m being promoted to Elite only to be demoted to Professional because of my low placement scores in the first active week – the 4th TIME!!!! Let’s face it folks, most of the drivers in Elite are mad fast; after all they’re on their way to the ultimate division, Pinnacle. I think T10 need to change this division promotion logic to accommodate a growth focus of racers recently promote to new divisions, locking them into that division immediately instead of the annoying kickback to the prior division if you don’t make the grade after the first week of racing. Has anyone had a similar experience?
" If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari. "
- Gilles Villeneuve





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#470 Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2016 1:50:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FORMULA ONE 44 Go to Quoted Post
So I think I just figured out how being promoted from one league division to another is affected in this game:

You get promoted to another division when your “Truscore” based on your driving skill and race placements closer to 1st place accrues enough to surpass the threshold qualifier for the next division. What is very uncanny and unfair is that there is logic built into the promotion routine that looks at your Truscore for the first active week after being promoted to the new division that will let you remain in that division if your Truscore remains above the qualifying threshold after the end of your first active week, but will demote you back to the prior division if it drops below the qualifying threshold after your first active week. Now the question is, is that logic fair? Let’s say I’m in division Professional, and in my first active week in Elite, due to the sheer speed of polished racers in that division I am unable to maintain a Truscore above the threshold qualifier for the current division, should I be demoted back to Professional based on the results of the first active week? Isn’t the idea behind being promoted to the next division to be able to acclimate and cultivate a skillset that will allow you compete effectively with those in that division over time? Come on now, speed is not cultivated overnight but takes TIME, not one week. I’m writing this because this week makes it the 4th time that I’m being promoted to Elite only to be demoted to Professional because of my low placement scores in the first active week – the 4th TIME!!!! Let’s face it folks, most of the drivers in Elite are mad fast; after all they’re on their way to the ultimate division, Pinnacle. I think T10 need to change this division promotion logic to accommodate a growth focus of racers recently promote to new divisions, locking them into that division immediately instead of the annoying kickback to the prior division if you don’t make the grade after the first week of racing. Has anyone had a similar experience?


I have been told more times than I can remember "you only get fast racing faster people than yourself" I think you and others in the same situation should be given 2 weeks before demotion. But I do suspect that wouldn't be enough time. My advice for anyone in this situation is when you get promoted do not compete untill your ready and in the mean time practice on the leaderboard. If you have a freind who is running the league run the same track they are racing but on the leaderboard and ask for tips while they are racing
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#471 Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2016 7:24:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XtremeR Tyskie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FORMULA ONE 44 Go to Quoted Post
So I think I just figured out how being promoted from one league division to another is affected in this game:

You get promoted to another division when your “Truscore” based on your driving skill and race placements closer to 1st place accrues enough to surpass the threshold qualifier for the next division. What is very uncanny and unfair is that there is logic built into the promotion routine that looks at your Truscore for the first active week after being promoted to the new division that will let you remain in that division if your Truscore remains above the qualifying threshold after the end of your first active week, but will demote you back to the prior division if it drops below the qualifying threshold after your first active week. Now the question is, is that logic fair? Let’s say I’m in division Professional, and in my first active week in Elite, due to the sheer speed of polished racers in that division I am unable to maintain a Truscore above the threshold qualifier for the current division, should I be demoted back to Professional based on the results of the first active week? Isn’t the idea behind being promoted to the next division to be able to acclimate and cultivate a skillset that will allow you compete effectively with those in that division over time? Come on now, speed is not cultivated overnight but takes TIME, not one week. I’m writing this because this week makes it the 4th time that I’m being promoted to Elite only to be demoted to Professional because of my low placement scores in the first active week – the 4th TIME!!!! Let’s face it folks, most of the drivers in Elite are mad fast; after all they’re on their way to the ultimate division, Pinnacle. I think T10 need to change this division promotion logic to accommodate a growth focus of racers recently promote to new divisions, locking them into that division immediately instead of the annoying kickback to the prior division if you don’t make the grade after the first week of racing. Has anyone had a similar experience?


I have been told more times than I can remember "you only get fast racing faster people than yourself" I think you and others in the same situation should be given 2 weeks before demotion. But I do suspect that wouldn't be enough time. My advice for anyone in this situation is when you get promoted do not compete untill your ready and in the mean time practice on the leaderboard. If you have a freind who is running the league run the same track they are racing but on the leaderboard and ask for tips while they are racing


I was promoted from professional about 6 weeks ago, I didn't know why because I wasn't winning a lot of races there, I had one really good week where all the planets aligned and the wind was blowing to the west and I had a really good tune, where I won 80% of the races I entered. Before and after that week I was top 5-10 at best, what I will say though is I try to race nice. I thought this driving nice had gotten me promoted.

I do find it difficult in Elite and can just manage to scrape a top 10 finish, but its hit and miss to whether I am within 1 second or 5 seconds a lap down of the guys at the front. What I tend to do is find out what the weeks spec car is going to be and then hot lap in rivals to try and get used to it and gradually get up to speed, and only when I am ready I enter the league.

Although on a few occasions I have got the car wrong and hot lapped in car irrelevant to the league.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#472 Posted : Wednesday, July 27, 2016 7:31:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FORMULA ONE 44 Go to Quoted Post
So I think I just figured out how being promoted from one league division to another is affected in this game:

You get promoted to another division when your “Truscore” based on your driving skill and race placements closer to 1st place accrues enough to surpass the threshold qualifier for the next division. What is very uncanny and unfair is that there is logic built into the promotion routine that looks at your Truscore for the first active week after being promoted to the new division that will let you remain in that division if your Truscore remains above the qualifying threshold after the end of your first active week, but will demote you back to the prior division if it drops below the qualifying threshold after your first active week. Now the question is, is that logic fair? Let’s say I’m in division Professional, and in my first active week in Elite, due to the sheer speed of polished racers in that division I am unable to maintain a Truscore above the threshold qualifier for the current division, should I be demoted back to Professional based on the results of the first active week? Isn’t the idea behind being promoted to the next division to be able to acclimate and cultivate a skillset that will allow you compete effectively with those in that division over time? Come on now, speed is not cultivated overnight but takes TIME, not one week. I’m writing this because this week makes it the 4th time that I’m being promoted to Elite only to be demoted to Professional because of my low placement scores in the first active week – the 4th TIME!!!! Let’s face it folks, most of the drivers in Elite are mad fast; after all they’re on their way to the ultimate division, Pinnacle. I think T10 need to change this division promotion logic to accommodate a growth focus of racers recently promote to new divisions, locking them into that division immediately instead of the annoying kickback to the prior division if you don’t make the grade after the first week of racing. Has anyone had a similar experience?


I doubt its as fancy as you say and that their is any certain listed timeframe. For purpose of example, lets say that the threshold for truescore from pro to elite is 1500, its more likely that you went over the threshold (1500), and due to not doing completely horrible, people quitting, etc you didnt lose as much truescore, but by the end of the week the law of averages dropped you back down below 1500. This would indicate that the truescore is doing its job, the only downfall for you is that you are currently a threshold driver. Meaning, you are currently a top driver in professional but not quite at the level of being a bottom driver in elite.

There also could be a multiplier for going over the threshold. Example in iracing once your safety rating reaches a whole number there is an additional .4 bonus added onto your score to try to stop people from fluctuating so much back and fourth between the groups. Because if you went over the threshold by .01 then your next race was no good it would drop you back down and you would constantly go back and fourth annoyingly. However if you go under that whole number again you also lose the bonus .4 and have to earn it back. So maybe there is some sort of bonus points which you have been able to hold onto for a week but as the week progresses and you are still unable to keep up with the field as it feels you should and are losing points in every event, you basically have lost the bonus points they gave to you and you are then demoted back where your skill is more suited. This is also a common problem i have seen in iracing when there are not a lot of people participating in a certain race. You rating may not be high enough to race with the faster group of the 2 but you would be a rear of the pack driver, however due to the others who have showed up to the race the 2nd lobby (slower lobby) drivers are not skilled enough to keep up with you. It is a long term process and works better when you have larger groups. The bigger the group the more likely you are to be matched up with people of similar skill.

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#473 Posted : Monday, August 29, 2016 3:32:30 PM(UTC)
It's plain and simple, the standard of driver required to get into Pinnacle is far too low.

How many times have you had this happen to you, regardless of what league you're in?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M10rbqq88lY
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