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#1 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2015 3:58:45 PM(UTC)
http://gamingbolt.com/turn-10-directx-12-has-ton-of-potential-1080p60fps-is-technical-achievement-were-proud-of

Ryan Cooper wrote:

"Yes, we're really excited about DX12 and I think there is going to be a ton of potential with that. However we're not utilizing Dx12 in Forza Motorsport 6 on Xbox One. We're always looking to push the boundaries. Take our Forza Tech engine for example; that's an engine that has been in development for over 10 years and with every version of the game we're always trying to push the technology boundaries of what that engine can do. With the addition of night racing and racing in the rain and the ability to present that to players at 1080p/60 fps is really a technical achievement we're proud of".


Iterative changes is still the same engine....
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#2 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2015 4:48:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
FM6 FAQ: Release Date, Hardware and Peripherals, Software




ForzaTech
"The Forza franchise is built on what we call Forzatech, that's our engine, our rendering and our physics engine, and both games are built on the same platform, and we evolve that between the two studios over time." (s)

DX12
"In an interview with the creative director of Turn10 Studios Dan Greenwalt at E3 2015 by Kal El from TiC podcast, the question came up over DirectX 12. ... The Creative director then stated that Forza Motorsport 6 will not be running on the new API. The new Forza 6 game runs on a modified version of the DirectX 11 engine which is currently in the Windows 8 based operating system on the Xbox One. " (s)


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#3 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2015 5:28:44 PM(UTC)
It's a shame it wont be running on dx12 but this modified dx11 still looked great in all the gameplays and the trailer I saw, especially in terms of the physics engine. It lookes like they re-thinked that department a little.
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#4 Posted : Monday, July 20, 2015 5:03:11 AM(UTC)
Aw, dang. Always thought Forza 6 would be on DX12. Then it would be the greatest Forza yet.
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#5 Posted : Monday, July 20, 2015 6:17:59 AM(UTC)
This just means that future Forza and Horizon games will be even better.
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#6 Posted : Monday, July 20, 2015 11:08:51 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
This just means that future Forza and Horizon games will be even better.


Always nice to have room to grow.

I'm not sure how much of a difference DX12 makes on the Xbone. I believe the games have closer access to the metal on the consoles than they do with DX11 and previous on Windows.

Edited by user Monday, July 20, 2015 11:59:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#7 Posted : Monday, July 20, 2015 11:38:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
This just means that future Forza and Horizon games will be even better.


Indeed but lets not expect so much improvements from DX12. No DirectX till this day made big improvements on games that I have to say "omg this is looking nice". There is room for nice little graphic-improvements for sure.
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#8 Posted : Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:34:01 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: arbnorreal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
This just means that future Forza and Horizon games will be even better.


Indeed but lets not expect so much improvements from DX12. No DirectX till this day made big improvements on games that I have to say "omg this is looking nice". There is room for nice little graphic-improvements for sure.


I'm not sure what DX12 means for the console, but at least on PC/Windows, DX12 gives the game software closer access to the GPU. With less code intervening it is showing some considerable FPS gains which either means the same game could run better, or you can get better quality at similar framerates in some cases.

I don't think we've seen a DX launch that could have this much impact for quite some time, if what I've seen and read is anything to go by.
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#9 Posted : Tuesday, July 21, 2015 10:20:49 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: arbnorreal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
This just means that future Forza and Horizon games will be even better.


Indeed but lets not expect so much improvements from DX12. No DirectX till this day made big improvements on games that I have to say "omg this is looking nice". There is room for nice little graphic-improvements for sure.


You shouldn't underestimate the importance of DX. I'm old enough to remember the original and there have been occasions throughout its development where the performance jump has been substantial. I don't know what the effect on the XB will ultimately be because elements of DX12 are already being used but its nice to know that there's still a little something in the pipeline.
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#10 Posted : Saturday, July 25, 2015 12:39:39 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
It's a shame it wont be running on dx12 but this modified dx11 still looked great in all the gameplays and the trailer I saw, especially in terms of the physics engine. It lookes like they re-thinked that department a little.


Why is it a shame? doesnt it looks incredible?and it will run at a completly smooth 60FPS I don't know why people think every game needs dx12, if a game is already good let it be, they didnt need dx12 in this game, and if dx12 didnt even was a thing, they would do amazing improvements in fm7, dx12 won't change much like most think
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#11 Posted : Saturday, July 25, 2015 4:06:47 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MCplayer92 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
It's a shame it wont be running on dx12 but this modified dx11 still looked great in all the gameplays and the trailer I saw, especially in terms of the physics engine. It lookes like they re-thinked that department a little.


Why is it a shame? doesnt it looks incredible?and it will run at a completly smooth 60FPS I don't know why people think every game needs dx12, if a game is already good let it be, they didnt need dx12 in this game, and if dx12 didnt even was a thing, they would do amazing improvements in fm7, dx12 won't change much like most think

Don't get me wrong, the game looks incredible as it is but with night and Rain being implemented for the first time in a Motorsport game, It would have been nice to see what they could have done on the DX12, but I I'm not dissapointed at all and I certainly don't think it needs DX12 but it would definately improve the game, there's no question about that.
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#12 Posted : Sunday, July 26, 2015 1:27:06 AM(UTC)
FM6 is already displaying a massive performance improvement over FM5. If DX12 is that big of a deal, it just means that much more to look forward to in 2017 when FM7 arrives.
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#13 Posted : Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:09:38 AM(UTC)
If the games runs at the promised 1080p/60fps without any issues, I don't really care what engine it is using under the hood.
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#14 Posted : Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:22:27 AM(UTC)
As far as im aware direct x is a generic program which allows coders to access the graphics cards resources in the most economical way however because direct x is used by everyone to program everything some of those resources wont be needed for a program like forza so bits of direct x become redundant and are just a waste of memory. Forzatech is a custom engine built for one purpose, the most recent version will take advantage of any progressions dx12 have implimented without needing the full dx12 framework.
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#15 Posted : Sunday, July 26, 2015 2:23:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IceMan PJN Go to Quoted Post
If DX12 is that big of a deal.


It is as long as your CPU and GPU combination is above a certain threshold. The APU in the Xbox isn't enough to see the same gains (ie, not powerful enough )
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#16 Posted : Thursday, July 30, 2015 9:16:58 PM(UTC)
I would imagine they could have made it a slight bit better if they could have used DX12, but I assume DX12 wouldn't have been far enough along in time for them to use it in this game. Here's hoping it will bring us another Great Leap Forward next year in Horizon 3.
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#17 Posted : Friday, July 31, 2015 6:56:09 AM(UTC)
Um, interfacing with the GPU is only a small part of a game engine. Switching renderers to take advantage of any improvements between whatever DX is currently used and DX12 would, most likely, only show marginal gains. Linking with DX<latest version here> doesn't automatically make a game better.
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#18 Posted : Wednesday, August 5, 2015 3:28:19 AM(UTC)
Guys it's really not a big deal. DX12 is mostly performance improvements and would not affect shaders in any way, unless you develop some shaders that are so advanced that your stuff runs too slowly under DX11. Since the game runs a fixed framerate and every one has the same hardware, whether it runs DX12 or not is completely irrelevant.
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#19 Posted : Wednesday, August 5, 2015 4:25:36 AM(UTC)
Its got nothing to do with shaders and everything to do with utilizing all available CPU cores to feed the gpu properly.

Its very hard (previously) to multithread a game, that's why overclocking brings such performance gains. It wont make a massive difference but using all 8 cores will bring small gains.
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#20 Posted : Wednesday, August 5, 2015 4:36:38 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Its got nothing to do with shaders and everything to do with utilizing all available CPU cores to feed the gpu properly.

Its very hard (previously) to multithread a game, that's why overclocking brings such performance gains. It wont make a massive difference but using all 8 cores will bring small gains.



Actually not really. The biggest advantage of DX12 is developers ability to write lbraries directly to the GPU - circumventing the CPU entirely. Not only does this make everything faster by offloading the CPU and utilizing the immense power of the GPU(s), it also reduces power consumption significantly. All great stuff for multi GPU high end PCs especially and PCs in general.

And it does have a lot to do with visuals and shader complexity as well and parallel processing for the GPU, as similar shaders will run (potentially faster) under DX12.

Clearly some advantages will come in future XB1 games, but there's no way that FM6 could have used it for anything much, given when DX12 was introduced.

*EDIT
AND because the GPU of the XB1 is pretty weak, there is not a big advantage of these libraries writing directly to it, as its own weakness limits the advantage of this....

Edited by user Wednesday, August 5, 2015 4:41:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#21 Posted : Wednesday, August 5, 2015 5:03:25 AM(UTC)
Thanks for repeating what I said earlier, and you don't circumvent the CPU entirely.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 5, 2015 5:05:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#22 Posted : Wednesday, August 5, 2015 5:19:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for repeating what I said earlier, and you don't circumvent the CPU entirely.


You know what I mean with circumventing =).

Anyways the question originally was whether it's bad or not that FM6 doesn't use DX12. Since this is an XB1 only title, they could win something with physics for example by reducing CPU overhead and moving more to the CPU. But with X-platform games, it'll make zero to no difference as they are very GPU bound and the GPU is the Achilles heel of XB1.

And still it'd be very, very little they'd win on a game already in full production. Now with games not yet in production that are on Xbox only, it's a different story potentially.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 5, 2015 5:20:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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