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#101 Posted : Wednesday, August 12, 2015 3:30:07 PM(UTC)
Well, seeing as you are in the mood to dissect and play semantics.

From the Trueskill root link

MS wrote:
The TrueSkill™ ranking system is a skill based ranking system for Xbox Live developed at Microsoft Research


MS wrote:
The TrueSkill ranking system is a skill based ranking system for Xbox Live developed at Microsoft Research. The purpose of a ranking system is to both identify and track the skills of gamers in a game (mode) in order to be able to match them into competitive matches. The TrueSkill ranking system only uses the final standings of all teams in a game in order to update the skill estimates (ranks) of all gamers playing in this game. Ranking systems have been proposed for many sports but possibly the most prominent ranking system in use today is ELO.


one could assume just from the parent URL that Trueskill is nothing more than a ranking system.

From the expanded Trueskill details (Matchmaking)

MS wrote:

Most games have at their root a metric for judging whether the game’s goals have been met. In the case of matches involving two or more players (“multiplayer matches”), this often includes ways of ranking the skills of match participants. This encourages competition between players, both to “win” individual matches, and to have their overall skill level recognised and acknowledged in a broader community. Players may wish to evaluate their skills relative to people they know or relative to potential opponents they have never played, so they can arrange interesting matches. We term a match “uninteresting” if the chances of winning for the participating players are very unbalanced – very few people enjoy playing a match they cannot win or cannot lose. Conversely, matches which have a relatively even chance of any participant winning are deemed “interesting” matches.

Many ranking systems have been devised over the years to enable leagues to compare the relative skills of their members. A ranking system typically comprises three elements:

A module to track the skills of all players based on the game outcomes between players ("Update").
TA module to arrange interesting matches for its members (“Matchmaking”).
A module to recognise and potentially publish the skills of its members (“Leaderboards”).
In particular, the ELO ranking system has been used successfully by a variety of leagues organised around two-player games, such as world football league, the US Chess Federation or the World Chess Federation, and a variety of others. In video games many of these leagues have game modes with more than two players per match. ELO is not designed to work under these circumstances. In fact, no popular skill-based ranking system is available to support these games. Many one-off ranking systems have been built and are in use for these games, but none of them is general enough to be applied to such a great variety of games.


MS wrote:

Matchmaking is an important service provided by gaming leagues. It allows participants to find team-mates and opponents who are reasonably close to their own skill level. As a consequence, it is likely that the match will be interesting, as all participants have roughly the same chances of winning.

TrueSkill ranking system's skill beliefs are based upon probabilistic outcome models and thus enable players to be compared for relative chance of drawing. The more even the skills of match participants, the more likely it is that this configuration of players will end up in a draw, and the more interesting and fun the match will be for every participant.


Trueskill IS matchmaking.
Matchmaking IS Trueskill.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 12, 2015 3:34:29 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Talking to brick walls since 2007.
Motivational Poster. Praise Dragnet
Rank: Racing Permit
 3 users liked this post.
#102 Posted : Friday, August 14, 2015 10:51:13 AM(UTC)
Personally i loved to set up a lobby with my own preferences.
Sit there and wait for people to join.

Anyone joining would be asked to use their mic. There then able to apologize if they bump anyone.
People that were silent with a mic but didnt like to talk were fine but if they bump people and get complaints there ask to speak up or leave
It created a good clean racing environment
You would meet new people and actually talk to them.
If they wanted to they could suggest a track or car or class and you kept a good lobby going with good variety.
It grew your friends list with clean racers and regular drivers.

No searchable lobbies is and always will be a shame.
T10 know it but either wont or carnt due to MS server structure. Who knows.

I will give F6 a good thrashing and hope i can get back the FM2 feeling of a real online community.

True Skill

Loved going on the game at night with an 18 next to my name and finishing the night on 20
Managed to get up to 27 once but hovered around 25 mostly.
This was a great incentive to fire up the console and race clean.
I hope i see something similar in F6

Edited by user Friday, August 14, 2015 11:04:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#103 Posted : Friday, September 4, 2015 6:44:37 AM(UTC)
As long as I can create a lobby to race with just my friends I'll be happy. That is what I have always loved about the past Forza games. I stay out of public lobbies due to all the horror stories I always hear.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#104 Posted : Tuesday, September 8, 2015 6:39:29 PM(UTC)
Well I will not be playing fm6 if they don't ad open lobby's or play created lobby ....
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#105 Posted : Saturday, September 26, 2015 9:12:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Sp00ksta Go to Quoted Post
Personally i loved to set up a lobby with my own preferences.
Sit there and wait for people to join.

Anyone joining would be asked to use their mic. There then able to apologize if they bump anyone.
People that were silent with a mic but didnt like to talk were fine but if they bump people and get complaints there ask to speak up or leave
It created a good clean racing environment
You would meet new people and actually talk to them.
If they wanted to they could suggest a track or car or class and you kept a good lobby going with good variety.
It grew your friends list with clean racers and regular drivers.

No searchable lobbies is and always will be a shame.
T10 know it but either wont or carnt due to MS server structure. Who knows.


:'( your memories are mine as well... such a damn shame, this lack of searchable custom lobby. Forcing people to be accountable by having a mic etc.. Was so, soo so good. Man I forgot about that...

Turn10 do you hear us? See this 5 + page thread? Your games are lacking a huge feature. The biggest dissappointment of Forza 5 lives on...
THEY FORCED ME TO HATE
Rank: Racing Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#106 Posted : Sunday, September 27, 2015 10:16:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Sp00ksta Go to Quoted Post
Personally i loved to set up a lobby with my own preferences.
Sit there and wait for people to join.

Anyone joining would be asked to use their mic. There then able to apologize if they bump anyone.
People that were silent with a mic but didnt like to talk were fine but if they bump people and get complaints there ask to speak up or leave
It created a good clean racing environment
You would meet new people and actually talk to them.
If they wanted to they could suggest a track or car or class and you kept a good lobby going with good variety.
It grew your friends list with clean racers and regular drivers.

No searchable lobbies is and always will be a shame.
T10 know it but either wont or carnt due to MS server structure. Who knows.

I will give F6 a good thrashing and hope i can get back the FM2 feeling of a real online community.

True Skill

Loved going on the game at night with an 18 next to my name and finishing the night on 20
Managed to get up to 27 once but hovered around 25 mostly.
This was a great incentive to fire up the console and race clean.
I hope i see something similar in F6


^^^^^^^ This, this, this and this. You have basically verbalised my own sentiments.

I've given the league hoppers and new leagues a try but I'm afraid it's a broken model in the vast majority of races. I'll explain my rationale.

I qualified in the 'pinnacle' league having bought the elite version. After the full release I then looked forward to some great racing with similar skilled drivers only to find that it's still full of people who ram you, cut corners deliberately (what happened to the stick glue?!) or generally make the racing unenjoyable.

I've also now tried the normal class racing hoppers and it is exactly the same, it's an absolute joke and I apologise for using such a strong term. I'm an older gamer and don't take these comments lightly but I genuinely find it a joke. How are you supposed to enjoy racing when there are clearly going to be the cheaters and idiots in the same lobby?

Exactly as Sp00ksta said, I used to set up private lobbies and tell everyone it was clean racing. I co run a league on a Sunday evening and probably three quarters of our league racers came from them joining our private lobbies when we were 'recruiting'. Some of these people I now call my friends and visit them in real life. I can't see that happening in this new way sadly.

Edited by user Sunday, September 27, 2015 10:38:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#107 Posted : Sunday, September 27, 2015 11:39:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Neutreus6 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Sp00ksta Go to Quoted Post
Personally i loved to set up a lobby with my own preferences.
Sit there and wait for people to join.

Anyone joining would be asked to use their mic. There then able to apologize if they bump anyone.
People that were silent with a mic but didnt like to talk were fine but if they bump people and get complaints there ask to speak up or leave
It created a good clean racing environment
You would meet new people and actually talk to them.
If they wanted to they could suggest a track or car or class and you kept a good lobby going with good variety.
It grew your friends list with clean racers and regular drivers.

No searchable lobbies is and always will be a shame.
T10 know it but either wont or carnt due to MS server structure. Who knows.

I will give F6 a good thrashing and hope i can get back the FM2 feeling of a real online community.

True Skill

Loved going on the game at night with an 18 next to my name and finishing the night on 20
Managed to get up to 27 once but hovered around 25 mostly.
This was a great incentive to fire up the console and race clean.
I hope i see something similar in F6


^^^^^^^ This, this, this and this. You have basically verbalised my own sentiments.

I've given the league hoppers and new leagues a try but I'm afraid it's a broken model in the vast majority of races. I'll explain my rationale.

I qualified in the 'pinnacle' league having bought the elite version. After the full release I then looked forward to some great racing with similar skilled drivers only to find that it's still full of people who ram you, cut corners deliberately (what happened to the stick glue?!) or generally make the racing unenjoyable.

I've also now tried the normal class racing hoppers and it is exactly the same, it's an absolute joke and I apologise for using such a strong term. I'm an older gamer and don't take these comments lightly but I genuinely find it a joke. How are you supposed to enjoy racing when there are clearly going to be the cheaters and idiots in the same lobby?

Exactly as Sp00ksta said, I used to set up private lobbies and tell everyone it was clean racing. I co run a league on a Sunday evening and probably three quarters of our league racers came from them joining our private lobbies when we were 'recruiting'. Some of these people I now call my friends and visit them in real life. I can't see that happening in this new way sadly.



Had the same thing with forza 2 and 4, had the best races so i cannot understand why they left it out(besides the bew trueskill stuff)
Rank: Driver's Permit
#108 Posted : Wednesday, September 30, 2015 3:39:30 PM(UTC)
I truly miss the custom searchable lobbies also. It was the best way to connect with other player that enjoyed the same aspect of racing as you do. Now we have guys racing in drift lobbies so we can't finish and/or crashing into us, terrible drivers crashing into your rear end coming into corners with out a mic to let you know what happened. I also miss lining cars up on Sebring and drag racing whatever you brought and just having conversations about the vehicles you're passionate about. It really is quite a let down for such an amazing game. You have managed to nail everything down, from tracks to physics to tire smoke, except I can barely enjoy drifting or racing online now.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#109 Posted : Wednesday, September 30, 2015 6:07:04 PM(UTC)
I have been playing FM6 since its release on the 15th and let me be one of those to say: Since coming to xb1 & fm6 from FM4 I am for the most part highly dissapointed. I told myself it would take something great to make me upgrade consoles after trying out FM5 on a family members xb1.. with the release of the forza edition xb1 it gave me an excuse to tell my wife WHY i was buying an xb1. she went for it no questions asked. I even purchased the FM6 ultimate edition as well just because I am a DLC freak as well with the forza series, but the lobbies & online play make me want to switch back over to my 360 and FM4. I have never been much for points drifting even though I do great at it. I am mostly the D1 FD style sections of a track drifter. tandems and so on. I have been doing my best to keep in lobbies hoping to find it more "entertaining" with no luck. It is hard to drift for points when in a lobby of 17+ people who have no idea what they are doing and never say anything on the mic when they hit you and kill your points chain.

It is very sad what forza online has turned out to be.. in 2011 and years before they had public user created lobbies.. in 2015 it is all "governed" lobbies so to say. their rules their game setup. It almost feels like this is the forza online feature we would have expected in 2002 with what games could be played online were normally premade servers.
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