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Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#1 Posted : Monday, June 15, 2015 9:00:12 PM(UTC)
Has anyone seen if custom public lobbies will be returning to Forza with F6? Man I hope so. Playing Project Cars has reminded me how much better it is when you give the player the freedom to race how they want, and it's something Forza definitely needs back. I hope they don't continue their current trend of removing player freedom instead of giving more of it.
Rank: Driver's License
#2 Posted : Monday, June 15, 2015 9:02:40 PM(UTC)
The opposite I'm afraid.

No custom public lobbies, they figure it will take players away from the leagues or something?

Edited by user Monday, June 15, 2015 9:03:29 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#3 Posted : Monday, June 15, 2015 11:28:48 PM(UTC)
Too bad they focused on leagues rather than bringing the community back together like it once was and letting each person enjoy what they like doing instead of.. Here's what you get, take it or leave it.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#4 Posted : Monday, June 15, 2015 11:44:16 PM(UTC)
Searchable public lobbys aren't that difficult to do and T10 have done them well in the past. They clearly have a reason for moving in a different direction. They aren't doing it to spite people or because they can't be bothered. Developers like T10 have to make the next game in series but also take the long view on certain aspects of the current/next release. I think that they're working towards something involving the cloud, drivatars and multi player in general. Whatever, they will have very good reasons for doing what they're doing - it just may not suite everyone.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#5 Posted : Monday, June 15, 2015 11:51:47 PM(UTC)
You can create custom lobbies but they can't be made public or searched. You can invite friends into your lobby, that's all. Public online racing will take place only in the Forza Racing Leagues mode, which seems to be some kind of ranked matchmaking.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 12:15:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
Searchable public lobbys aren't that difficult to do and T10 have done them well in the past. They clearly have a reason for moving in a different direction. They aren't doing it to spite people or because they can't be bothered. Developers like T10 have to make the next game in series but also take the long view on certain aspects of the current/next release. I think that they're working towards something involving the cloud, drivatars and multi player in general. Whatever, they will have very good reasons for doing what they're doing - it just may not suite everyone.


Saying that they could have good reasons for removing cherished features without providing reasons is foolish. No logical speculative reason could support removing a feature that only helped the franchise grow and be more fun in the long term with a more active community.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 12:19:08 AM(UTC)
Ugh, well that's too bad then. I guess I'll wait and find out more about this league feature, but it's still pretty disappointing. For me, Forza has the best racing gameplay, either in FM or FH, but online racing is key for me, and lately Turn 10 has removed a lot of what made their games so fun. FM5 was still ok, but Horizon 2's multiplayer, IMO, was terrible, never letting you pick where or what you really wanted to do. I hope this isn't just more of the same, or else my Forza days may be behind me.
Rank: Racing Legend
 1 user liked this post.
#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 2:11:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheBadJesus Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone seen if custom public lobbies will be returning to Forza with F6? Man I hope so. Playing Project Cars has reminded me how much better it is when you give the player the freedom to race how they want, and it's something Forza definitely needs back. I hope they don't continue their current trend of removing player freedom instead of giving more of it.


Playing Project Cars online has reminded me just how out of touch with gamers most or all devs seem to be these days.

In PCars once you set the class of cars for a lobby you can not change it. Found it frustrating when racing with friends when we wanted to go from say road cars to GT3 or something like that.
I blame the ants.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 3:06:42 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheBadJesus Go to Quoted Post
Ugh, well that's too bad then. I guess I'll wait and find out more about this league feature, but it's still pretty disappointing. For me, Forza has the best racing gameplay, either in FM or FH, but online racing is key for me, and lately Turn 10 has removed a lot of what made their games so fun. FM5 was still ok, but Horizon 2's multiplayer, IMO, was terrible, never letting you pick where or what you really wanted to do. I hope this isn't just more of the same, or else my Forza days may be behind me.


The how & where racing is a skill you need to develop. Yes, I agree there are often more races in cars or on tracks you might not like but it takes good driver to succesfully finish (and win) the whole lot. Personally I cannot be bothered with anything over S-class racing in multiplayer; too many errors and thus pile-ups but I absolutely love running these fast cars in hotlapping.

I do hope that T10 will adjust or finetune the online gaming experience making it more suited to cherrypick the races you want to do.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 4:49:31 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RIDlCULE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
Searchable public lobbys aren't that difficult to do and T10 have done them well in the past. They clearly have a reason for moving in a different direction. They aren't doing it to spite people or because they can't be bothered. Developers like T10 have to make the next game in series but also take the long view on certain aspects of the current/next release. I think that they're working towards something involving the cloud, drivatars and multi player in general. Whatever, they will have very good reasons for doing what they're doing - it just may not suite everyone.


Saying that they could have good reasons for removing cherished features without providing reasons is foolish. No logical speculative reason could support removing a feature that only helped the franchise grow and be more fun in the long term with a more active community.


Businesses rarely disclose reasons behind major franchise decisions.

I can only guess that it is possible that CPLs are so good (lol) that they may end up segregating the community more so than intergrating it. Imagine everyone finds their own niche hideouts, few folks play the common lobbies or leagues, new players with a fresh XB1 go into private lobbies and feel left out, they go into leagues and they are empty. I think T10 may be thinking long and hard about how the game is presented to new players, and as a business, they probably should.

I'm not saying that I like it, but trying to be open about it. Never know, it may all work out... the success of leagues may open the door for CPLs to actually make a comeback if T10 determine leagues can indeed sustain well and develop their own loyal following.
Rank: On the Podium
 1 user liked this post.
#11 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 5:04:11 AM(UTC)
Seemed to me they really want us to try the league feature to see if it works as planned. CPL probably didn't make the cut because they didn't want everyone further segregated.

I think they are really pushing for full 24 player lobbies and by taking this route that goal can be achieved along with accurate league placement.

If the lobbies are clean and competitive and every track is up for random rotation (assuming same setup as FM5), then multiplayer shouldn't be bad especially if you just want to race one particular class. If leagues work well we will all make new friends and likely lead to entertaining private lobbies. FM4 hoppers were really good despite the terrible track rotation when the clean racers were able to keep the trash out. It's possible this league thing may make hoppers work.

I would think if leagues fail, the CPL can't be ignored. Just give the league thing a shot. It just may work.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 16, 2015 5:05:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 5:12:01 AM(UTC)
With 24 players, I do hope they adjust the lap counts.

Whether you'll get a strong consistent 24 players to run twice the laps on one circuit... should be interesting.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#13 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 11:11:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: OctagonQontrol Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheBadJesus Go to Quoted Post
Ugh, well that's too bad then. I guess I'll wait and find out more about this league feature, but it's still pretty disappointing. For me, Forza has the best racing gameplay, either in FM or FH, but online racing is key for me, and lately Turn 10 has removed a lot of what made their games so fun. FM5 was still ok, but Horizon 2's multiplayer, IMO, was terrible, never letting you pick where or what you really wanted to do. I hope this isn't just more of the same, or else my Forza days may be behind me.


The how & where racing is a skill you need to develop. Yes, I agree there are often more races in cars or on tracks you might not like but it takes good driver to succesfully finish (and win) the whole lot. Personally I cannot be bothered with anything over S-class racing in multiplayer; too many errors and thus pile-ups but I absolutely love running these fast cars in hotlapping.

I do hope that T10 will adjust or finetune the online gaming experience making it more suited to cherrypick the races you want to do.


Thanks for the input, but you misunderstood me. Its not that I'm not good at what's offered, I'm very good at it, it's that (especially in FH2) what's offered is often not what I enjoy doing.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 11:13:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheBadJesus Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone seen if custom public lobbies will be returning to Forza with F6? Man I hope so. Playing Project Cars has reminded me how much better it is when you give the player the freedom to race how they want, and it's something Forza definitely needs back. I hope they don't continue their current trend of removing player freedom instead of giving more of it.


Playing Project Cars online has reminded me just how out of touch with gamers most or all devs seem to be these days.

In PCars once you set the class of cars for a lobby you can not change it. Found it frustrating when racing with friends when we wanted to go from say road cars to GT3 or something like that.


On the menu screen for the lobby, it's the third box on the second row, next to car selection. That's where all the rules are and where you can change the class.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#15 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 3:36:39 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RIDlCULE Go to Quoted Post


Saying that they could have good reasons for removing cherished features without providing reasons is foolish. No logical speculative reason could support removing a feature that only helped the franchise grow and be more fun in the long term with a more active community.


So you're saying they did it just to spite their customers? If the feature is not there, it's either because it's too hard to add for the payoff (probably doesn't apply here), they intentionally want to make the game worse (I find that unlikely) or they don't think it's particulalarly important and possibly detrimental (most likely in my opinion).

We can only speculate since most/all of us are not privy to their design meetings, but I would guess they want to prevent the online community from getting too fractured. I would guess that they believe that's a better way to grow their community. Just,be caused its cherished by you doesn't mean it's cherished by all.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 9:33:36 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: teacups73 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RIDlCULE Go to Quoted Post


Saying that they could have good reasons for removing cherished features without providing reasons is foolish. No logical speculative reason could support removing a feature that only helped the franchise grow and be more fun in the long term with a more active community.


So you're saying they did it just to spite their customers? If the feature is not there, it's either because it's too hard to add for the payoff (probably doesn't apply here), they intentionally want to make the game worse (I find that unlikely) or they don't think it's particulalarly important and possibly detrimental (most likely in my opinion).

We can only speculate since most/all of us are not privy to their design meetings, but I would guess they want to prevent the online community from getting too fractured. I would guess that they believe that's a better way to grow their community. Just,be caused its cherished by you doesn't mean it's cherished by all.


I've always wondered if it was a money thing. I know zero about servers and networks, so maybe someone who knows could answer this: Would having the ability for everyone to host their own public lobby require something more costly than just having set hoppers?
Rank: Racing Legend
#17 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 10:02:30 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheBadJesus Go to Quoted Post


On the menu screen for the lobby, it's the third box on the second row, next to car selection. That's where all the rules are and where you can change the class.


Thanks for making me look again. Only issue is its not in the box you said. Once you are in the lobby and go to that box you can not change class there.

But you can if you go to car selection and instead of just picking from the list you go to the garage.
I blame the ants.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 10:36:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheBadJesus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: teacups73 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RIDlCULE Go to Quoted Post


Saying that they could have good reasons for removing cherished features without providing reasons is foolish. No logical speculative reason could support removing a feature that only helped the franchise grow and be more fun in the long term with a more active community.


So you're saying they did it just to spite their customers? If the feature is not there, it's either because it's too hard to add for the payoff (probably doesn't apply here), they intentionally want to make the game worse (I find that unlikely) or they don't think it's particulalarly important and possibly detrimental (most likely in my opinion).

We can only speculate since most/all of us are not privy to their design meetings, but I would guess they want to prevent the online community from getting too fractured. I would guess that they believe that's a better way to grow their community. Just,be caused its cherished by you doesn't mean it's cherished by all.


I've always wondered if it was a money thing. I know zero about servers and networks, so maybe someone who knows could answer this: Would having the ability for everyone to host their own public lobby require something more costly than just having set hoppers?


Cost wise I don't see a difference. You're hosting X number of races for X number of players regardless of who sets the race parameters, whether it's the server or one of the players.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#19 Posted : Wednesday, June 17, 2015 12:29:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheBadJesus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: teacups73 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RIDlCULE Go to Quoted Post


Saying that they could have good reasons for removing cherished features without providing reasons is foolish. No logical speculative reason could support removing a feature that only helped the franchise grow and be more fun in the long term with a more active community.


So you're saying they did it just to spite their customers? If the feature is not there, it's either because it's too hard to add for the payoff (probably doesn't apply here), they intentionally want to make the game worse (I find that unlikely) or they don't think it's particulalarly important and possibly detrimental (most likely in my opinion).

We can only speculate since most/all of us are not privy to their design meetings, but I would guess they want to prevent the online community from getting too fractured. I would guess that they believe that's a better way to grow their community. Just,be caused its cherished by you doesn't mean it's cherished by all.


I've always wondered if it was a money thing. I know zero about servers and networks, so maybe someone who knows could answer this: Would having the ability for everyone to host their own public lobby require something more costly than just having set hoppers?


Cost wise I don't see a difference. You're hosting X number of races for X number of players regardless of who sets the race parameters, whether it's the server or one of the players.

Costwise there is an humongous difference (when looking at the question of TheBadJesus). According to the stats, Microsoft is supposed to have 300,000 servers in place for XBL worldwide. Even if these servers are unmanaged, low-cost, low-peering, they still cost "around" $1500 for a 3 year lifespan making it $450 million in 3 years that could be saved if the whole infra got torn down and we go back to native player-hosted sessions only.

With no industry-standard, no way to detect cheaters, no way to certify infra, every single player hosting a session is a liability to the enjoyment of the services as a whole. So yes, I would very much like to pay MORE for MORE dedicated infra to make sure games run smoothly online!
Rank: Racing Legend
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#20 Posted : Wednesday, June 17, 2015 4:26:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: OctagonQontrol Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TheBadJesus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: teacups73 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RIDlCULE Go to Quoted Post


Saying that they could have good reasons for removing cherished features without providing reasons is foolish. No logical speculative reason could support removing a feature that only helped the franchise grow and be more fun in the long term with a more active community.


So you're saying they did it just to spite their customers? If the feature is not there, it's either because it's too hard to add for the payoff (probably doesn't apply here), they intentionally want to make the game worse (I find that unlikely) or they don't think it's particulalarly important and possibly detrimental (most likely in my opinion).

We can only speculate since most/all of us are not privy to their design meetings, but I would guess they want to prevent the online community from getting too fractured. I would guess that they believe that's a better way to grow their community. Just,be caused its cherished by you doesn't mean it's cherished by all.


I've always wondered if it was a money thing. I know zero about servers and networks, so maybe someone who knows could answer this: Would having the ability for everyone to host their own public lobby require something more costly than just having set hoppers?


Cost wise I don't see a difference. You're hosting X number of races for X number of players regardless of who sets the race parameters, whether it's the server or one of the players.

Costwise there is an humongous difference (when looking at the question of TheBadJesus). According to the stats, Microsoft is supposed to have 300,000 servers in place for XBL worldwide. Even if these servers are unmanaged, low-cost, low-peering, they still cost "around" $1500 for a 3 year lifespan making it $450 million in 3 years that could be saved if the whole infra got torn down and we go back to native player-hosted sessions only.

With no industry-standard, no way to detect cheaters, no way to certify infra, every single player hosting a session is a liability to the enjoyment of the services as a whole. So yes, I would very much like to pay MORE for MORE dedicated infra to make sure games run smoothly online!


People are confusing what type of online games there are versus whether they run peer to peer or on dedicated servers.

Cost is not a difference between private or public custom lobbies.

Cost may be a difference between running peer to peer versus dedicated servers (assuming that the servers are extras rather than using server capacity that would otherwise be idle).
I blame the ants.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Wednesday, June 17, 2015 4:37:35 AM(UTC)
The more I read, the more I realize I'll have the most questions about how exactly will these leagues work.

It may actually be pretty cool, but I wonder how dynamic race parameters are.

Darn this may come close to a feature request, but I do wonder/hope there will be a vote system to give the community some facet of control: vote class, track, warm up option, PI restriction, etc... during intermission. Oh yeah and of course, how will vote to kick work within a league where the players are already bracketed in.

Oh dear lol can't wait!
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Wednesday, June 17, 2015 4:54:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RIDlCULE Go to Quoted Post
Saying that they could have good reasons for removing cherished features without providing reasons is foolish. No logical speculative reason could support removing a feature that only helped the franchise grow and be more fun in the long term with a more active community.

FM1 and FM2 had Searchable Public Lobbies; FM3 did not; T-10 brought them back in FM4 (along with Hoppers); Gone again for FM5 and now we also know in FM6.

Apparently, based on Turn 10's observation of how their game is played, they *must* have a reason which they feel is grounds for their decisions. Just because *you* don't have access to the data, nor (I assume) have you sat in on their design and development meetings, doesn't mean there is no logical reason.

Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post

Playing Project Cars online has reminded me just how out of touch with gamers most or all devs seem to be these days.

In PCars once you set the class of cars for a lobby you can not change it. Found it frustrating when racing with friends when we wanted to go from say road cars to GT3 or something like that.

In some cases, I might agree - then again, a dev like Turn 10 looks at all the data they gather on how people are playing the game, not just on the teeny-tiny fraction of the player-base that is posting on the forum.

As to PCars - the assumption is that you will enter a lobby and have 45 - 90 minutes of practice, followed by 30 - 45 minutes qualifying, followed by a 90+ minute race. Why build in an easy way to change race parameters in the middle of that session? Remember (as the fbs on PCars forum are so fond of saying) - PCars is a SIM not a game!!!! If you want to "play" it like a game, you should go back to FM.
Mod edit - WSD - max 1 line of text with sig --- Please don't use your sig to attack other forum members - Duey
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#23 Posted : Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:19:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheBadJesus Go to Quoted Post
Ugh, well that's too bad then. I guess I'll wait and find out more about this league feature, but it's still pretty disappointing. For me, Forza has the best racing gameplay, either in FM or FH, but online racing is key for me, and lately Turn 10 has removed a lot of what made their games so fun. FM5 was still ok, but Horizon 2's multiplayer, IMO, was terrible, never letting you pick where or what you really wanted to do. I hope this isn't just more of the same, or else my Forza days may be behind me.

I will agree that it is disappointing that custom public search will not return. The league idea is great for a competitive atmosphere. Some may agree and some may not agree with my opinion. Custom public is what bridged every type of community together and to find new people. If people did not have friends on Forza at the time. People could just go in and search for a lobby. My only question is that will you be able to spectate in league lobbies and private lobbies? Have not seen anyone bring this up, but that is a separate topic.

Edited by user Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:23:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:19:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ooPAYNEoo Go to Quoted Post

Businesses rarely disclose reasons behind major franchise decisions.

I can only guess that it is possible that CPLs are so good (lol) that they may end up segregating the community more so than intergrating it. Imagine everyone finds their own niche hideouts, few folks play the common lobbies or leagues, new players with a fresh XB1 go into private lobbies and feel left out, they go into leagues and they are empty. I think T10 may be thinking long and hard about how the game is presented to new players, and as a business, they probably should.

I'm not saying that I like it, but trying to be open about it. Never know, it may all work out... the success of leagues may open the door for CPLs to actually make a comeback if T10 determine leagues can indeed sustain well and develop their own loyal following.


I think PAYNE has hit the nail on the head, here.

Now, I'm not really a crazy MP guy (and what appears to be a new focus on SP for F6 is music to my ears), but I can see this making sense. It just makes the game more accessible to more people; heck, I remember when I did give MP a real earnest shot on Horizon 1, I was annoyed that the same ribbons seemed to keep popping up, over and over again. Did that game have these "custom lobbies" I keep hearing so much about? If it did, they didn't really work for me.

Edited by user Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:21:05 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
#25 Posted : Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:28:21 AM(UTC)
Forgive me for not knowing the following, as I've never played Forza 5:

  • Did Private Lobbies in Forza 5 have all of the detailed lobby settings that Forza 4 had for their CPLs?


Payne's post helps make Turn 10's decision understandable, however I am wondering how much freedom hosts of competitive racing leagues (like TORA) will have when it comes to setting up event lobbies.

If the Public Lobbies end up clean and well populated then that's a great thing, however I hope private hosts will have total freedom in the types of lobbies they want to construct.

Edited by user Wednesday, June 17, 2015 5:30:08 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Typo correction.

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