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#1 Posted : Saturday, June 13, 2015 1:32:27 PM(UTC)
Hi new to the forum but not new to forza, i would like to know what is the average camber and toe settings for rwd cars everyone uses as a base for me to start tunning so i have a hope in hell online racing. Also suspension stiffness,im a grip man and run with no assists
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#2 Posted : Saturday, June 13, 2015 3:51:43 PM(UTC)
Try starting at -3,-3. Camber 0,0 for to.

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#3 Posted : Monday, June 15, 2015 2:06:51 AM(UTC)
I run most of my RWD cars with 1 degree of camber on front and slightly less on the rear. As for toe; I dont adjust the front but set rear toe to either -0.1 or -0.2. I find this helps stablise the rear of the car.
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#4 Posted : Monday, June 15, 2015 10:50:45 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AnchorManRon83 Go to Quoted Post
Hi new to the forum but not new to forza, i would like to know what is the average camber and toe settings for rwd cars everyone uses as a base for me to start tunning so i have a hope in hell online racing. Also suspension stiffness,im a grip man and run with no assists


And so you get two answers -3 to +1 camber for your answer, LOL. Just to complete the distribution - I am usually somewhere near -0.8 camber. Almost never more than -1.0 Always negative on track tunes.

Discover the answer yourself -- Look at your telemetry of a replay of a couple of laps. Ideally you'll see even heat across each individual the tire. (and even temps at all four tires... springs!)

Oh and, 0.0 toe. Front and rear. On rear wheel drive. Usually.
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#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 17, 2015 2:32:20 PM(UTC)
Thanks guys. Got ne going in the right direction.
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#6 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 9:35:48 AM(UTC)
You guys running less than 1 or positive camber try jacking it way up and watch the magic happen. -3 is actually low on quite a few cars but most are between -2.5 and -max will work well.

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#7 Posted : Friday, June 19, 2015 10:46:14 AM(UTC)
base starting point for most rwd muscle cars.
you can tweak these after test driving.

front camber -1.2
rear camber -0.6
front toe 0.2
rear toe -0.3
caster 6.2
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#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2015 4:20:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XCELRATE Go to Quoted Post
base starting point for most rwd muscle cars.
you can tweak these after test driving.

front camber -1.2
rear camber -0.6
front toe 0.2
rear toe -0.3
caster 6.2


Those settings are close to what the Forza Tuning Labs Calculator gives for most cars.

FTL Basic settings:

Tire Pressure : Front 28.5 / Rear 28.5
front camber -0.8
rear camber -0.8
front toe +0.1
rear toe -0.1
caster 5.0



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#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2015 8:48:16 AM(UTC)
i used to own a forza tune app on my old iphone 4.
but now i have a windows based phone for a couple of years.

finally someone older than me!!! awesome...
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Flowmasters BBK Headers Ford HotRod Cams
Airaid CAI PowerStop Brakes Dyno Tune 325rwhp
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#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 23, 2015 10:42:52 AM(UTC)
I started at -3.2 and move around from there.. I always start my springs low and work up as needed. Bump 1.5 front and rear.. Good luck
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#11 Posted : Wednesday, June 24, 2015 8:19:03 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DesigningLeek47 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AnchorManRon83 Go to Quoted Post
Hi new to the forum but not new to forza, i would like to know what is the average camber and toe settings for rwd cars everyone uses as a base for me to start tunning so i have a hope in hell online racing. Also suspension stiffness,im a grip man and run with no assists


And so you get two answers -3 to +1 camber for your answer, LOL. Just to complete the distribution - I am usually somewhere near -0.8 camber. Almost never more than -1.0 Always negative on track tunes.

Discover the answer yourself -- Look at your telemetry of a replay of a couple of laps. Ideally you'll see even heat across each individual the tire. (and even temps at all four tires... springs!)

Oh and, 0.0 toe. Front and rear. On rear wheel drive. Usually.


Listen to this guy with regards to camber and toe settings.
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#12 Posted : Tuesday, June 30, 2015 10:59:03 AM(UTC)


In the beginning, I did telemetry readings on lots of RWD cars and found that a camber of -1.0/-0.9 almost always gave me the kind of tire temps recommended. It would put my inside tire at between 190*-200*, outer tire between 8*-10* lower, and mid-tire right between the two. This is with a caster of between 4.2-5.0. But don't take my word for it; check out your own telemetry reads after a lap or two and see what camber gives you the best tire temps.

Lately, I've been given some advice by one of the game's best racers (this individiual has top-10 times on just about every track, mostly in S class) which proscribes a camber setting of -0.8/-0.5 with full (7.0) caster. The tire temps remain within acceptable range and the difference between inner, outer and mid is smaller than -1.0/-0.9. Personally, I find that this setup works well on many RWD cars.

As for toe, I typically use +0.1/-0.1, but no toe is often recommended. I think my setting gives me a slight but noticeable improvement in handling.

BTW, I use stock tire pressure: 30/30

For springs, this is the calculation I typically use on RWD cars for rear spring: ((max spring - min spring) / 2) + min spring. I then deduct 100 from the final number for my front spring. When dealing with front-heavy cars, the whole thing can be reversed and the formula can be applied to front spring, with 100 deducted for rear. With cars that have a very close front/rear balance, it might be best to use the number the formula gives you for both front and rear springs, and make small adjustments if necessary.

While many experts advise going with the lowest ride height possible to keep the centre of gravity low, my source does the opposite and maxes out ride height. I'm not sure if I totally agree with this technique in every situation and for every car, but it does improve handling in many cases, and I often opt for a number in between lowest and highest ride height.

Damping is simple: 10/10 for rebound; 1/1 for bump. This is almost always the best starting place for any car, and I rarely find myself making adjustments.

Finally, for differential, here is an interesting way of doing things that works surprisingly well: accel: 50%; decel: 3% (without traction control); accel 100%; decel 3% (with traction control).

I'm probably going to get flamed for this post, but these numbers come from possibly the best racer on Forza 4, and they have worked well for me in most cases. In the end, it is every tuner's job to find a setup that compliments their driving style. Here are some unorthodox ideas that may be helpful to the OP and even advanced tuners.

Peace

TOkidd


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#13 Posted : Tuesday, June 30, 2015 2:37:26 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TOkidd Go to Quoted Post


Lately, I've been given some advice by one of the game's best racers (this individiual has top-10 times on just about every track, mostly in S class) which proscribes a camber setting of -0.8/-0.5 with full (7.0) caster. The tire temps remain within acceptable range and the difference between inner, outer and mid is smaller than -1.0/-0.9. Personally, I find that this setup works well on many RWD cars.

BTW, I use stock tire pressure: 30/30

While many experts advise going with the lowest ride height possible to keep the centre of gravity low, my source does the opposite and maxes out ride height. I'm not sure if I totally agree with this technique in every situation and for every car, but it does improve handling in many cases, and I often opt for a number in between lowest and highest ride height.

Peace

TOkidd



don't worry, no flames coming from this direction - the above pretty much matches my experience with the exception of caster. Mine is typically (un-typically?) quite low, in the 2 to 3 range, but I think that is something I've grown used to, prefer on account of my using sim-steering w/a controller. One other small exception - while I do tend to not (never say never ;^) put my cars all the way down to the lowest ride height, I usually end-up with them quite a bit above lowest, just not usually quite at max height; typically mine are near stock ride height, give or take.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 30, 2015 2:38:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#14 Posted : Wednesday, July 01, 2015 4:09:09 AM(UTC)
Check ptg baby Cow lb times u will see he knows something about tuning

Edited by user Wednesday, July 01, 2015 4:11:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#15 Posted : Wednesday, July 01, 2015 7:03:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: A11eyesONME23 Go to Quoted Post
Check ptg baby Cow lb times u will see he knows something about tuning


I don't think anyone is saying PTG Baby Cow doesn't know what he's doing. I certainly am not saying or suggesting that.

I do think that tuning is one of those things where people can become very dogmatic and insist that their tuning methods are the best (to clarify, I am not speaking about PTG Baby Cow or anyone else on this board). The thing is, people have diverse driving styles and not all approaches to tuning — even if they are approaches recommend by some of the top racers in the game — will work equally well for all drivers. While the numbers I provided in my last post are from the base tune of a racer who has more top-5 times on more tracks than any other racer in the game (at least for A, S, and R3 classes), I don't necessarily think they are going to work for every driver out there. But I do think they provide an excellent starting place for most competent drivers (ie, drivers who have been playing the game awhile and have enough skill to place in the top 1% of times on their favourite tracks).

I was a pretty decent tuner who could get most vehicles driving the way I liked without using a tuning calculator. When I first learned the base tune of this top racer, it struck me as being a little odd in places. I was very reluctant to let go of my -1.0/-0.9 camber and ramp up my caster to 7.0. I still use 0.1/-0.1 toe, even though the base tune specifies that no toe should be used. But I've managed to let go of my old ways and adopt -0.8/-0.5 camber with 7.0 caster, and combined with the other elements of the base tune (springs especially), my tuning is better than ever.

For springs, I used to use a simple formula designed to have front and rear loads reflect the amount of weight on each end. The formula was very simple and I still use it from time to time as a point of comparison. To get the values needed to complete this formula, you need to check the car's weight and weight distribution, which can be found in My Cars by toggling to the car you are tuning and pressing Y. Once you have these values, the rest is simple:

1. Divide total weight by 2 to give you half the total weight.
2. Multiply half of total weight by the % of weight distribution for each end.

For example: My R2-class Zonda R weighs 2524 LBS after being upgraded. Front-end weight distribution is 46%. This means the back end must be carrying 54% of the total weight. So now we can complete the formula:

Step 1: 2524 (total weight) / 2 = 1262

Step 2:
Front springs: 1262 X 0.46 = 580.52 LB/IN
Rear springs: 1262 X 0.54 = 681.48 LB/IN

This was the formula for achieving my initial spring values. It worked pretty well, and like I said, I still use it as a point of comparison. However, there were times when this formula simply didn't give me values that worked well. At that point, I had to tune by feel, and also using the knowledge I had gleaned from reading on boards like this about what would happen if I adjusted front/rear springs up or down.

Now that I have the formula from the base tune that I described in my previous post, I use that first and if I still don't like the handling, or the telemetry shows that the springs are going red all the time, I have this older formula to provide perspective. I've also noticed that with most cars in the 2500-3000 LB range, keeping the springs in the 600 LB/IN range can give you a good starting point when nothing else works. So, if my formula for the Zonda R I described above wasn't working, I would try a rear spring in the 650-660 range, and a front spring in the 590-600 range.

My point is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. There are also formulas for ARB, Damping, etc. Everyone does it differently. PGT Baby Cow's method of tuning may be excellent for him and many others. Some people might find that it helps, but not so much for their driving style. Same with the tuning setup I've provided. In the end, a tuner needs to find what works best for them, and almost everything is subject to change. I never would have thought running max caster was a good idea, but it works for me on most cars if the camber is -0.8/-0.5. I've checked the telemetry many times and found that the tire temp was just fine.

Finally, in my last post I failed to mention the importance of ARB's in handling — especially mid-corner handling. The base tune I've been going on about gives the following values:

Front: 10
Rear: 15

Over time, I've learned that almost every car handles better with ARB set below 20 on both ends. I've also learned that one of the easiest ways to correct mid-corner understeer is to drop rear ARB so that it is the same as, or lower than, front ARB. This is yet another example of a driver (me) making changes to a tune created by a racer far better than me in order to have that tune suit my driving style better. I always start with the 10/15 ARB setting, but will sometimes flip them to 15/10, or 18/15, or 15/15 if I am having problems with understeer whle cornering.

Anyways, this has been a long and convoluted post, but what I'm trying to communicate is that even the best racers' base tunes or approaches to tuning may not work equally well for everyone. I have adopted a base tune developed by one of the best racers in the game, but I still make adjustments to it here and there if something isn't working for me. Some people may say that, with such a proven tune, it is the driver who is at fault and not the tune; but I think that if a tune isn't working for you, no matter how prestigious its provenance, it's best to change it to suit your style rather than the other way around.

Anyways, I hope I've been of some help to the OP.

Take it easy, y'all!
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#16 Posted : Wednesday, July 01, 2015 10:52:40 AM(UTC)
All of those atop the LB's are much better drivers that I will (probably) ever be - a great time takes more than a great tune.
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#17 Posted : Wednesday, July 01, 2015 2:35:15 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DesigningLeek47 Go to Quoted Post
All of those atop the LB's are much better drivers that I will (probably) ever be - a great time takes more than a great tune.


You are absolutely right. I can't even imagine the amount of time it takes to get good enough at this game to consistently rank in the top 5 on multiple tracks, in multiple classes. I've been playing Forza since the very first edition for the original XBox, and I think I might have one time that cracks the top 1000. In online circuit racing, I rarely place first, and usually finish in the middle of the pack.

But I can definitely say that as I get better at tuning my cars, I also achieve faster times and place in the top 3 more consistently in online circuit racing. I've found that becoming a better tuner is really all about Broadening my knowledge so that I have more options if my first or second approach doesn't work. When I first started tuning, I only had the FTC, and if it didn't give me a good tune, I had to buy one from the marketplace. Then I did a lot of research on tuning and developed a better understanding of how springs and damping, etc. affect a car's handling. I learned some formulas to give me starting values, and also learned how to tweak those numbers if they weren't giving me what I wanted. As I continued to experiment with different settings, I had more options when my initial tune wasn't improving my handling and grip sufficiently. Now I'm at the point where I've talked to enough racers and tuners that I have a good knowledge base to employ for even the most difficult cars. It took time, reading, and a lot of experimenting to get to this point, and I stilll have lots to learn. I probably won't ever have a top-3 time on any track, but if I can get my cars handling and gripping well, then I can enjoy the game more by achieving better times and better online race outcomes.
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#18 Posted : Friday, July 03, 2015 10:21:42 AM(UTC)
It's true that a great time comes from much more than a great tune. But nobody can outdrive a bad tune. So tunes are important. I have cut 1-2 seconds out of a lap time with a decent tune.
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#19 Posted : Tuesday, July 07, 2015 7:02:06 AM(UTC)
Sorry, ignore what i said. I just realized this was for forza 4. i believe -1.5, -1.0 was my typical starting place in forza 4.... but i dont recall trying the high cambers that are being run in forza 5.

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#20 Posted : Wednesday, July 08, 2015 10:50:28 AM(UTC)
Thanks for all the info people, its all interesting stuff, i drive with no assists so im just about getting the cars to handle how i like. When looking at the the friction on replays what am i looking to get?
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#21 Posted : Wednesday, July 08, 2015 11:14:05 AM(UTC)
from the interwebs, somewhere: The ideal working temperature range is between 175° F (80° C) and 220° F (104° C) with an optimum inside to outside spread of 20° F (0° C) and with a maximum of 50° F (10°C). In a well-balanced chassis the front and rear tire temperatures should be within 25° F (15° C) with the exception of a rear engine [cars] where the rear tires may run 45° F (25° C) hotter. If these values are exceeded, we recommend the vehicles geometry be adjusted. A banked track significantly increases the stress on the tires inner shoulder. It is recommended to minimize the temperature spreads by lowered camber settings and a pressure increase.
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#22 Posted : Wednesday, July 08, 2015 3:59:12 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AnchorManRon83 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for all the info people, its all interesting stuff, i drive with no assists so im just about getting the cars to handle how i like. When looking at the the friction on replays what am i looking to get?



On the friction screen you are trying to keep the line within the friction circle and not into the red. red is loss of grip. if you can stay in the orange on most all corners you are at the limit i blieve.

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#23 Posted : Tuesday, February 28, 2017 3:23:59 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TOkidd Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DesigningLeek47 Go to Quoted Post
All of those atop the LB's are much better drivers that I will (probably) ever be - a great time takes more than a great tune.


You are absolutely right. I can't even imagine the amount of time it takes to get good enough at this game to consistently rank in the top 5 on multiple tracks, in multiple classes. I've been playing Forza since the very first edition for the original XBox, and I think I might have one time that cracks the top 1000. In online circuit racing, I rarely place first, and usually finish in the middle of the pack.

But I can definitely say that as I get better at tuning my cars, I also achieve faster times and place in the top 3 more consistently in online circuit racing. I've found that becoming a better tuner is really all about Broadening my knowledge so that I have more options if my first or second approach doesn't work. When I first started tuning, I only had the FTC, and if it didn't give me a good tune, I had to buy one from the marketplace. Then I did a lot of research on tuning and developed a better understanding of how springs and damping, etc. affect a car's handling. I learned some formulas to give me starting values, and also learned how to tweak those numbers if they weren't giving me what I wanted. As I continued to experiment with different settings, I had more options when my initial tune wasn't improving my handling and grip sufficiently. Now I'm at the point where I've talked to enough racers and tuners that I have a good knowledge base to employ for even the most difficult cars. It took time, reading, and a lot of experimenting to get to this point, and I stilll have lots to learn. I probably won't ever have a top-3 time on any track, but if I can get my cars handling and gripping well, then I can enjoy the game more by achieving better times and better online race outcomes.




Doesnt take that long. I can easily rank in the top 5 in lobby no matter what class i race.

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