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Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#1 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:12:01 AM(UTC)
This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Af7LnJNbnWo

What if T10 could create a tool to also support video editors? There's photomode but what about implementing Filmmonde\Moviemode? Since I did my first forza video, I've been growing so much into video editing, 5 years passed, made 86 videos in total and some 25 more that aren't finished and released, all this in forza, in every video I tried to trick replay cameras to get unique perspectives. But I feel so limited! What Rockstar is doing with GTA V on PC video creator is my dream for Forza. Forza is the only game I do videos, and not like videos like playing with comentary, but videos with story, here's just one example (the latest video I made): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEpkROrsMVw using photomode only actually.

There was a point I guess it was about 2 years ago, that I tried to make a full 2h movie from forza, I ended up making 30 min only and never finished it because I felt so limited.

How could it happen? Well basicly putting together the Photo mode and the 30 sec clips render together, you could allow us to move the camera free whatever we wanted or give the directions to the camera to move and the record just that, also zoom, and maybe changing the effects, contrast, exposure.

I want to make good quality vids just like any other video editor, I want to achieve car TV commercials quality, I want to make Forza games look like a professional video, I just need that video editor tool.
This would be a big support for video editors, I know theres limitation in hardware etc but I know its possible even if you had to put the video editor mode in 30FPS no problem.

How could it translate to a big future? well I've known some forza players that started their photography career beause they were forzatographer, I want to be a real life Professional video editor. In 5 years my friends and family have been amazed with my evolution, with forza video editor it could get people the possibility of gamers being an absolute good video editors. My goal is to be professional, creative, unique. I think with this we could get unique camera angles and etc. Much like the Mango BMW commercial Forza Horizon remake. With Video editor imagine how well it could have been in terms of camera angles etc.

Edited by user Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:34:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
#2 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:24:28 AM(UTC)
If I had to guess, there is a good reason why only the PC version of GTA V is getting the video editor: console performance restrictions.

As for Forza, we don't even have the ability to upload videos to ForzaMotorsport.net anymore. Why? Because the Xbox One now has the Game DVR feature that allows you to upload and download videos to your PC where you can edit them at will. Looking around the Forza media community, fans make exceptional videos either by way of the DVR feature and/or a game capture device; it's just so much easier to post-edit Forza footage on a PC than to even fathom how it would work on the console itself.

Edited by user Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:31:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#3 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:28:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: The Shadow Edge Go to Quoted Post
If I had to guess, there is a good reason why only the PC version of GTA V is getting the video editor: console performance restrictions.

As for Forza, we don't even have the ability to upload videos to ForzaMotorsport.net anymore. Why? Because the Xbox One now has the Game DVR feature that allows you to upload and download videos to your PC where you can edit them at will. Looking around the Forza media community (Domestic Mango, xam3l), fans make exceptional work either by using the DVR feature and/or a game capture device; it's just so much easier to post-edit Forza footage on a PC than to even fathom how it would work on the console itself.


Yes I know consoles are limited. But they could at least allow us to move the camera free in the track. Fans already do exceptional work but they could do even better, they could allow us to record with the DVR, send the clips to azure and get them on PC but the only thing I want its a free cam while the replay is still playing, only that.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:29:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MCplayer92 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: The Shadow Edge Go to Quoted Post
If I had to guess, there is a good reason why only the PC version of GTA V is getting the video editor: console performance restrictions.

As for Forza, we don't even have the ability to upload videos to ForzaMotorsport.net anymore. Why? Because the Xbox One now has the Game DVR feature that allows you to upload and download videos to your PC where you can edit them at will. Looking around the Forza media community (Domestic Mango, xam3l), fans make exceptional work either by using the DVR feature and/or a game capture device; it's just so much easier to post-edit Forza footage on a PC than to even fathom how it would work on the console itself.


Yes I know consoles are limited. But they could at least allow us to move the camera free in the track. Fans already do exceptional work but they could do even better, they allow us to record with the DVR, send the clips to azure and get them on PC but the only thing I want its a free cam while the replay is still playing, only that.



Rank: S-Class Racing License
#5 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:30:31 AM(UTC)
uhh... dammit double quote...
Rank: On the Podium
#6 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:35:15 AM(UTC)
I hear ya'. MCplayer92. A free moving camera would be fantastic and would really get me back into making Forza videos, as well. Heck, even multiple (and better) camera angles for each section of track would be warmly welcome at this point. Forza replays have always been so rigid, inorganic and unnatural, so to speak.

Edited by user Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:42:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:45:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: The Shadow Edge Go to Quoted Post
I hear ya'. MCplayer92. A free moving camera would be fantastic and would really get me back into making Forza videos, as well. Heck, even multiple (and better) camera angles would be warmly welcome at this point. Forza replays have always been so stiff, inorganic and unnatural, so to speak.


yeah I mean, even in GTA the frame rate runs smothly by going up in the sky on consoles, Idk if the Forza engine uses real time rendering system in replay by if it uses they could use the same tecnique as in GTA, if you go far from a building, it gets less detailed, I know basicly every game does that, also forza (just not sure on replay, I noticed only on cars so far) but it would be such a big feauture, and the replay mode on Forza runs at 30 (i'm sure it gets to 60 most of the time, but its just blocked to 30 for a smooth replay) and implementing this with real time rendering in the track it would almost no impact with 30FPS, r even maybe DX12 would probably help by allowing all the CPU cores avaiable to work simultaneusly with GPU. But I also don't want they to delay the release date just to implement DX12.

Edited by user Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:47:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#8 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:58:49 AM(UTC)
Even better and completely unrealistic:

So, Forza replays are essentially recorded data (not actual video) to replicate a race event in a video-like fashion. Using this data, how awesome would it be for there to be a video editor on ForzaMotorsport.net to which you can pull up saved gameplay data and, from the convenience and maneuverability of your computer, manipulate the camera views and such that could, then, be exported as video and edited further on the user's preferred program. That would be spectacular; but, again, completely unrealistic.

No matter what, out-of-game media has always been a huge part of Forza and its community. I agree, it would be nice to see some updates in these areas of the game.

Edited by user Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:00:28 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#9 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:04:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: The Shadow Edge Go to Quoted Post
Even better and completely unrealistic:

So, Forza replays are essentially recorded data (not actual video) to replicate a race event in a video-like fashion. Using this data, how awesome would it be for there to be a video editor on ForzaMotorsport.net to which you can pull up saved gameplay data and, from the convenience and maneuverability of your computer, manipulate the camera views and such that could, then, be exported as video and edited further on the user's preferred program. That would be spectacular; but, again, completely unrealistic.

No matter what, out-of-game media has always been a huge part of Forza and its community. I agree, it would be nice to see some updates in these areas of the game.


well that would be even better but yeah quite dificult, at least the current gen consoles have similar aruitecture to PCs maybe it isn't even that impossible as we think but, a free replay cam its everything I'm asking for, then I could record with the xbox DVR, another problem is that the old 30 sec clips render actually had better quality than the xbox ond DVR lol
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:05:38 AM(UTC)
Or even Why the hell am I talking about GTA lol. Halo! Halo does it since Halo 3 and it works perfectly in teather mode or even gears of war on spectator mode in multiplayer

Edited by user Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:06:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#11 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:11:03 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MCplayer92 Go to Quoted Post
another problem is that the old 30 sec clips render actually had better quality than the xbox ond DVR lol


So true. Fortunately, at the highest bit rate setting, I can get better quality through broadcasting via the Twitch app. Then, upload clips from Twitch to YouTube and retrieve those to post-edit on PC. However, with the upcoming Windows 10 OS, making videos with Xbox One content might become much more efficient; but, doesn't change the abysmal Forza camera issue.
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#12 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:18:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: The Shadow Edge Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MCplayer92 Go to Quoted Post
another problem is that the old 30 sec clips render actually had better quality than the xbox ond DVR lol


So true. Fortunately, at the highest bit rate setting, I can get better quality through broadcasting via the Twitch app. Then, upload clips from Twitch to YouTube and retrieve those to post-edit on PC. However, with the upcoming Windows 10 OS, making videos with Xbox One content might become much more efficient; but, doesn't change the abysmal Forza camera issue.


Oh Nice! never thought of that Twitch solution!
And true win10 seems to be a big progress to gaming community and also with the new Forza engine "Forzatech" the game gets more acessible to PC in terms of sharing content or even the xbox UI.

Edited by user Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:19:06 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#13 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:24:28 AM(UTC)
The forza camera is an issue. I would like more camera views more than anything. I would also love them to fix the glitch with the tx wheel. When you view your replays in interior view, the wheel doen't move if you drove the car with the wheel insted of a controller. A rotating camera view like in F1 would be awsome and also it would be cool to have your own, movable replay position on the track. I would love that.
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#14 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:27:31 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
The forza camera is an issue. I would like more camera views more than anything. I would also love them to fix the glitch with the tx wheel. When you view your replays in interior view, the wheel doen't move if you drove the car with the wheel insted of a controller. A rotating camera view like in F1 would be awsome and also it would be cool to have your own, movable replay position on the track. I would love that.


No doubt. I think iRacing is great example of how camera angles for driving games should look.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:28:56 AM(UTC)
definately, though I cant see why they cant improve the replay camera.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:36:16 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
The forza camera is an issue. I would like more camera views more than anything. I would also love them to fix the glitch with the tx wheel. When you view your replays in interior view, the wheel doen't move if you drove the car with the wheel insted of a controller. A rotating camera view like in F1 would be awsome and also it would be cool to have your own, movable replay position on the track. I would love that.


true, that also happens in the current build of Project cars, idk why but it does, but yeah Forza cameras replay need soe sort of improvement and a free cam wuld be just the thing.
And like shadow edge said iRacing is so realistic in replay cams, love those
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:47:27 AM(UTC)
the limited camera may be due to the lighting engine. not sure how much is prebaked, but if it is baked changing the perspective could mess with shadows, reflections etc...you have to remember forza renders at frames per second, not seconds, minutes or hours per frame. per frame. its never going to be cgi bull shot quality. to get 60 fps a ton of lighting and effects have to be faked, even on hardware over twice as powerful as any console. http://www.blenderartist...chmark-%28Updated-BMW%29 look at the rendering times in almost 2k posts. cgi people want game engine times and game engine people want cgi quality, but hardware is not going to be that strong in our lifetimes. you have to pick speed vs quality. personally i think forza has all the quality it needs. gameplay and interface should be the focus for the next few games. full camera control could put it into the seconds per frame situation. they record the data so maybe they could release a editor later separately where you could let it render all night to get a minuet or two of video, but they shouldn't spend resources to shoehorn it into the game. release a separate rendering engine for that.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:54:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: rdo3 Go to Quoted Post
the limited camera may be due to the lighting engine. not sure how much is prebaked, but if it is baked changing the perspective could mess with shadows, reflections etc...you have to remember forza renders at frames per second, not seconds, minutes or hours per frame. per frame. its never going to be cgi bull shot quality. to get 60 fps a ton of lighting and effects have to be faked, even on hardware over twice as powerful as any console. http://www.blenderartist...chmark-%28Updated-BMW%29 look at the rendering times in almost 2k posts. cgi people want game engine times and game engine people want cgi quality, but hardware is not going to be that strong in our lifetimes. you have to pick speed vs quality. personally i think forza has all the quality it needs. gameplay and interface should be the focus for the next few games. full camera control could put it into the seconds per frame situation. they record the data so maybe they could release a editor later separately where you could let it render all night to get a minuet or two of video, but they shouldn't spend resources to shoehorn it into the game. release a separate rendering engine for that.



I don't think games work like that. In a Forza replay for like FM4 you could changing to another camera at any time and render 30sec, thats basicly what I asking here just with a free cam, lightning would stay the same, just the reflections and shadows would change like in-game or replay, the replay on Forza runs at 30FPS implementing a free cam I think it wouldn't be that dramatic as those high detailed pics.
Just a free cam on replay and then render with the xbox DVR

FM4 is a great example, in my videos I show the same scene at diferent angles. CGI and game engines are completly diferent. I think Forza engine runs in real time so that is another way to tell that this could work, and game like Halo where you have teather mode it works pefectly

Edited by user Wednesday, April 8, 2015 10:57:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#19 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:17:33 AM(UTC)
And btw I have to say, I do get alot of inspiration, I've loads of plans for vids but when I get to the replay and I see those limited cameras In just quicly lose the inspiration...
And also the best camera replays in any game Race Driver Grid, godamn epic replays
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#20 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:21:43 AM(UTC)
ok mc i thought you wanted a free roaming any angle camera. yes all baking should already be done for all existing cameras. i thought you wanted a new god mode camera, not just the ability to select content that probably already exists.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:56:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: rdo3 Go to Quoted Post
ok mc i thought you wanted a free roaming any angle camera. yes all baking should already be done for all existing cameras. i thought you wanted a new god mode camera, not just the ability to select content that probably already exists.


no what I mean is a free cam, where I can go whatever I want, but I think it would not cost most in rendering at least not more than in the current replay apart from the textures in the distance, which would probably be some low textures. in lighting, shadows and reflections I think it could not be much diferent from current replay mode, or they could even limit the space where we could free roam with the cam like in photomode.
But yes some more other replay cams would also be welcome, but a free cam is everything

Edited by user Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:57:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 1:32:40 PM(UTC)
mc you have to bake the lighting per camera. if you cant bake it then with the detail levels you are back to minuets per frame to render. you cant have real time without baking. toystory took over 800,000 computer hours, over 90 years of rendering time, to render at 2-15 hours per frame. (114,240 frames). the lighting is actually the intensive part not the textures. cgtalk is probably the nest forum on the net for what you want. http://forums.cgsociety.org/ browse thru it especially the techniques boards. models and textures are the easy part. once done they become static. you can reuse them all you want without changing. the lighting has to be recalculated from scratch every time something moves ray by ray. thats he hard part. textures vs lighting is like the difference between reading a book and writeing a book. you can read the same book as many timees as you need to. writeing a new book every time you want to interact with a book would be alot more work.

thats what baking is, it is kind of saving the lighting predone like the textures. textures are usually image files. baking makes the lighting static. in games you are acutally watching a series of replays of the lighting overlayed on each other. a free roam camera would require real time not baked lighting. real time lighting requires seconds, many many seconds, per frame not frames per second. at 60 fps the 114240 frames of toy story would take 1904 seconds, less than 32 minuets to render rather than the 90 years it took to do the real time lighting. i'm sure you could plug toystory models and textures into the forza engine and play them at 60fps but only with baked lighting or it would look very very flat. it would look like south park not toy story. the lighting is what makes it look real.
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#23 Posted : Wednesday, April 8, 2015 2:13:00 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: rdo3 Go to Quoted Post
mc you have to bake the lighting per camera. if you cant bake it then with the detail levels you are back to minuets per frame to render. you cant have real time without baking. toystory took over 800,000 computer hours, over 90 years of rendering time, to render at 2-15 hours per frame. (114,240 frames). the lighting is actually the intensive part not the textures. cgtalk is probably the nest forum on the net for what you want. http://forums.cgsociety.org/ browse thru it especially the techniques boards. models and textures are the easy part. once done they become static. you can reuse them all you want without changing. the lighting has to be recalculated from scratch every time something moves ray by ray. thats he hard part. textures vs lighting is like the difference between reading a book and writeing a book. you can read the same book as many timees as you need to. writeing a new book every time you want to interact with a book would be alot more work.

thats what baking is, it is kind of saving the lighting predone like the textures. textures are usually image files. baking makes the lighting static. in games you are acutally watching a series of replays of the lighting overlayed on each other. a free roam camera would require real time not baked lighting. real time lighting requires seconds, many many seconds, per frame not frames per second. at 60 fps the 114240 frames of toy story would take 1904 seconds, less than 32 minuets to render rather than the 90 years it took to do the real time lighting. i'm sure you could plug toystory models and textures into the forza engine and play them at 60fps but only with baked lighting or it would look very very flat. it would look like south park not toy story. the lighting is what makes it look real.


I do know what you mean, I used to mess with that stuff before Nvidia garage for example.
The solution with this is basicly like you said, the same way it works in-gameplay could be in the replay freeroam, static lightning, no real time day and night cycle etc. the only the thing that would be working would be what was working in-gameplay or replay or photomode... As we know Forza Motorsport has never had day cycle, you just choose one time in specific. btw this feature I'm asking to implement on FM6, anyway the way those renders work compared to games are diferent, I know what you are talking about, but a game engine is built to work and render at specific times FPS, CG is not the same... Toystory would not run in an xbox one because its not meant to, toystory is a movie, it was made and rendered for some months to just copy on disc sell and watch, games are meant to develop, save in a disc, consoles to read, reproduce, render, interact (in count the graphical settings, Anti aliasing, anastropic filtering etc). What I'm asking (the freecam) already exists in Forza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-UCHgaF5Os Now the diference is basicly you can control the cam to any direction, the lightning would work just like it works while driving (playing), CG is not the same as a game engine (yes in both you module, create the lighting the world, animations) but both are for diferent porpuses CG is meant to create realistic scenes scripted scenes with perfect shadows, reflections etc, game engines can also serve to realistic scenes but first of all to utilize stably the hardware avaiable and render the world properly. they could made the free roam cam to low the resolution to 720p I wouldn't mind, but I know its possible.

Or more simply just saving a game data to reproduce in the future than free roam with the cam.

Just look at Halo, GTA, Gears of War, Counter-Strike, its that kind of free cam I'm asking
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#24 Posted : Friday, April 10, 2015 8:31:43 AM(UTC)
The pre baked lighting is for the environment only, and the environment is static so it doesn't matter what angle you look at it. The lighting on the car is done in real time I believe so you can look at it from any angle and as the car moves the lighting and shadows react accordingly. Pre baked lighting on moving objects just wouldn't really work (could be wrong though but it seems logical to me) Should be no problem for a free camera replay tool, and would be an awesome feature. I would love to see the content that people could create it
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#25 Posted : Friday, April 10, 2015 8:47:07 AM(UTC)
I keep seeing people saying stuff about the lighting being "pre-baked" in Forza Motorsport 5. Honestly, how would we know? The lighting, as it is, is static because the light source (the virtual sun) does not move. Are those of you making this statement suggesting that Forza Motorsport 5's lighting system could not support time transition?

Again, make no mistake: I am genuinely asking with no idea as to whether or not these claims are wrong or right.
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