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Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#1 Posted : Saturday, February 21, 2015 8:47:10 PM(UTC)
It's completely unfair if someone runs you off the road and takes your position with no consequences
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#2 Posted : Saturday, February 21, 2015 10:15:35 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
It's completely unfair if someone runs you off the road and takes your position with no consequences


In the feature wish list thread I requested online licenses..., if the post got approved. I figured lobbies could be restricted to different license levels, with the top license class being limited to clean players.

Beyond that, a penalty system would be nice; maybe time penalties and even black flags. Maybe cutting corners and collisions get you time penalties, and repeat offences gets you black-flagged.
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#3 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 2:00:13 AM(UTC)
The better question is how could they do it, what actions would attract a penalty and what should the penalty be. Just asking for penalties or black flags could resign the post to the "Wishlist thread" never to be seen again :)
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#4 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 5:59:51 AM(UTC)
T10 should look at iRacing's penalty/license system, as it works out pretty well... i know the userbase is different as they are all paying a fee monthly, but still, the basics of their system seems just spot on...
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#5 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 10:02:23 AM(UTC)
Here is the problem with penalizing rammers. They will find ways to ruin races. They may not ram but they will slowly force you off of the track during a race. Even with anti griefing on, they would still find ways to ruin races.

This will be an issue until the end of time.

Best solution? Start or join a league. You will be able to race with like minded people and you can avoid any issues. If someone rams in a league, they are removed from said league.
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Rank: On the Podium
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#6 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 10:56:15 AM(UTC)
As always, the proper solution is to find yourself a group of like-minded racers to befriend and create your own private lobby to ensure the "cleanest" racing possible. No matter what racing game developers have done, are doing or will do, they will never be able to eliminate the intentional crashers in the public lobby.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#7 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 11:27:42 AM(UTC)
Whilst it would be great to have a system that discourages ramming, running walls and taking shortcuts I'm inclined to agree with Shadow. A lock will only keep an honest man out and the wreckers will find a way to circumvent any penalty system.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#8 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 1:40:13 PM(UTC)
CPLs.

When the folks in the room have chosen to be in a room and stay in that room (rather than thrown in thru random selection hooper) I think that creates more of a community atmosphere.

After 6-7 races, you know whos who... anyone new coming in would have a hard time deliberately crashing around. It happens, but it was rare, in the days we ran our own lobbies.
Much easier to cause grief as a pure anonymous just being thrown into random lobby, where you're just going to move on to next random lobby. Community lobbies and community policing, and low tolerance goes a long way.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#9 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 2:53:47 PM(UTC)
^^^ This. Obviously t10 has no desire to police the lobbies or punish griefers, so why not give the ability back to the community. In fm2 a greifer never lasted more than one race

Edited by user Monday, February 23, 2015 2:54:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#10 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 2:59:21 PM(UTC)
Yep, custom public lobbies kept the racing pretty clean. It was also nice for those days when my internet was less than solid. I could just search for lobbies that had collisions turned off, so my lag wouldn't affect anyone.

FM4 was the best
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#11 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 3:14:39 PM(UTC)
I been saying it a while now. People should be ghosted if there on diffrent lap like non-collision. This would stop all of the amatuer trollers
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#12 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 10:33:06 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AKRA1X Go to Quoted Post
I been saying it a while now. People should be ghosted if there on diffrent lap like non-collision. This would stop all of the amatuer trollers

.

I truly think if they made Tag Virus with Circuit Tracks like in Forza Motorsport 4 you would have a lot less trolls as you call them. Some people just want that high speed crash because they had a rough day at work. Or could be some other reason. They need user created lobbies again and circuit tracks for Tag that people can smash at high speeds.
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Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#13 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 11:56:12 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
The better question is how could they do it, what actions would attract a penalty and what should the penalty be. Just asking for penalties or black flags could resign the post to the "Wishlist thread" never to be seen again :)
easy actually. rammers have more wrecks than average people. you start a scale of 1-100. if you have more wrecks than average you move down in a cleanliness rating, if you have fewer than average for the race you move up. lets say there are an average of 5 contacts per person, if you had ten then you are - 5 for the race. if you are clean but that jerk still used you for his brakes in turn 1 then you will have 1 contact so you would move up 4. do it by the race because there is more contact on shorter tracks. you also only have to keep the clean rating saved in memory, a single variable, you dont need the entire history log eating up hdd and ram space, you adjust the pre race rating to the post race average and save that as the new variable going into the next race.

within a few races the clean racers will move up and the dirty racers will move down, then you put all the rammers in the same lobbies together and let them play bumper cars till their hearts are content. you group the cleanest racers together. you group the average players together. it would be a self sorting system. this lobby is rated 1-33, another for 34-67, 67-100. yes that it large ranges but it could be split into smaller pools of every 20 or every 10 if needed. the reason i want large pools of to have a second rating to break the clean rating pools into smaller pools by finishing position average so you have competative races. do the same thing for a finishing position variablee so you will have a slow, medium and fast group in each clean group. then you are splitting people into 9 different pools/lobbies. you have to remember thats going to be 9 groups per class or event. if there are 8 classes that would be 72 potential groups. 72 groups should leave enough in each group to then let live sort it by ping to group people playing close together geographically of clean level and skill level to reduce lag. you can split the pools or combine them as needed for the number of people playing online so you have decently populated lobbies and doesn't turn into a 1v1 hotlap session.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#14 Posted : Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:00:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IR STiGGLES Go to Quoted Post
^^^ This. Obviously t10 has no desire to police the lobbies or punish griefers, so why not give the ability back to the community. In fm2 a greifer never lasted more than one race
at least now if they are going against traffic they get ghosted. i hated when someone would wreck themselves or be in last place and decide if they couldn't win nobody could and go car bowling for the rest of the race. and they had it out for the leaders most of all. turned the finish into a luck ranking rather than a skill ranking.

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#15 Posted : Tuesday, February 24, 2015 12:49:13 AM(UTC)
Well thought through but there are still problems. Take those races where there are more than one idiot and you've won a couple of races. They then target you so you end up with a big hit rate but the perps don't. In earlier games the spoiler would often get kicked. This is still available but I've yet to see this used in 5 - not sure why.
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#16 Posted : Tuesday, February 24, 2015 2:52:21 AM(UTC)
if you've won a few in a row chances are you didn't have any wrecks. you have been well above average and moving up for those races, you have built up a cushion more than big enough to take contact for a single race. and they probably did have contact/damage and thats why they weren't competitive. remember its not just sorted by contact, its also sorted by finishing position. you'll be bumped up to better competition or they will drop down to a lower finish group. the only time it would fail is if everybody is in the cleanest and best finishing group. remember you would be racing with everybody being the best of the best, odds are they wont play dirty. they couldn't in the past to get up to that group. you would be racing against a highly filtered group, not a bunch of random people as it is now. everybody would be a clean racer, and if a few go dirty it would offend the rest of the room and get a vote to kick. you would also start playing the same people more and more, they would become online friends or rivals, but they wouldn't be random strangers.

if you go up a group you may be the new kid on the block, but remember you would be moving up to a better quality of player room. they would be better than the average from your old group. eventually you would prove yourself to the new group and be accepted. if you want to scale it 1-1,000 or 10,000 rather than just 100 for finer detail controls that would be just as easy, it would just take longer to advance or decline to a new group. but eventually the list would sort its self out. over time you wont be in a lobby with those idiots, they wont be in the lobby to begin with. those idiots will all be playing against people exactly like them, in a lobby you never get entered into. eventually it'll be like playing your clones online. they'll all be about as fast and about as clean. you'll be paired with people that are going to treat you just like you've treated everyone else. you might be a little better or a little worse, but close enough to be competitive. if you are much better or much worse you are going to get bumped up or down a group until everybody is about the same as you.

if you win every race and are clean they aren't going to have to worry about you. you'll be bumped up a level and out of their hair. they wont be able to hit you because you wont be there any more. and the ones that would hit you for that you probably aren't going to be the 1st person they did it to. their past conduct will probably keep them from being in the same lobby to begin with a week or two after launch. if you stay clean you are going to be grouped with others that stay clean. if you play dirty you would be grouped with others that play dirty.

if you only play dirty once in a while, only after losing a few races in a row, if everybody stays clean the the average is 0 and zero for everyone. nobody moves up or down. two or 3 people hit you for a single race and ding you? you wont be the 1st person they've done it to. they will have dinged themselves out of your group before you have to worry about them. as soon as you "once in a while" happens you are below average, do it a few times and you drop. conversely new players are usually high contact, they'll drop quickly and as they get better rise again since their contacts will become better than the average of the group they are in.

if you are dominating lobbies you wont belong in those lobbies, you'll be bumped up to a better lobby and the players that couldn't win with you there will be able to win. people wont be as frustrated because they wont be racing against people much better or much worse. the system would resolve the problem both ways. it would remove those not fast enough nor not clean enough for the lobby, or those too fast or too clean for the lobby. it wouldn't just bump people down, it would bump people up also. it would remove you from their lobby so it would be fair for them if you are too good to be there. nobody that doesn't belong will be in the lobby, nobody too good nor anybody not good enough. you wont have to worry about anybody hitting you and they wont have to worry about never getting to win. just like people wont be allowed to bash you off the track, you wont be allowed to san **** and abuse the noobs. you'll be racing against the people closest to yourself. would you hit somebody for winning to much? then they wouldn't either. and if they are beating you too much you'll be able to win when they get bumped up. it gets rid of the anomalies in the competition. if you belong in the lobby you stay. if you are too good or too bad you are getting bumped up or down but the lobby becomes fair again for those that remain.

if you are too good you'll be bumped up until you aren't too good, until you are average, until everybody else is almost just like you. being too good wont be a problem, not for very long anyway. nor will people too bad to be on the same track with you be a problem, not for long anyway. dynamic sorting based on dynamic stat tracking. just like you wont have to worry about people knocking you off the track for winning to much, they wont have to worry about you coming in and not letting them win. you wont be paired together before it becomes a real problem. but if you like lapping 2nd place race after race, those days will be gone too. for that experience again you are going to have to race drivatars off line. you wont win constantly, you will win consistently, you'll be competitive not dominating. you'll win your share but you'll lose your share too. if you get too far from average you'll be bumped to a new lobby closer to your level either way up or down.

Edited by user Tuesday, February 24, 2015 3:23:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#17 Posted : Tuesday, February 24, 2015 8:08:04 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: rdo3 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
The better question is how could they do it, what actions would attract a penalty and what should the penalty be. Just asking for penalties or black flags could resign the post to the "Wishlist thread" never to be seen again :)
easy actually. rammers have more wrecks than average people. you start a scale of 1-100. if you have more wrecks than average you move down in a cleanliness rating, if you have fewer than average for the race you move up. lets say there are an average of 5 contacts per person, if you had ten then you are - 5 for the race. if you are clean but that jerk still used you for his brakes in turn 1 then you will have 1 contact so you would move up 4. do it by the race because there is more contact on shorter tracks. you also only have to keep the clean rating saved in memory, a single variable, you dont need the entire history log eating up hdd and ram space, you adjust the pre race rating to the post race average and save that as the new variable going into the next race.

within a few races the clean racers will move up and the dirty racers will move down, then you put all the rammers in the same lobbies together and let them play bumper cars till their hearts are content. you group the cleanest racers together. you group the average players together. it would be a self sorting system. this lobby is rated 1-33, another for 34-67, 67-100. yes that it large ranges but it could be split into smaller pools of every 20 or every 10 if needed. the reason i want large pools of to have a second rating to break the clean rating pools into smaller pools by finishing position average so you have competative races. do the same thing for a finishing position variablee so you will have a slow, medium and fast group in each clean group. then you are splitting people into 9 different pools/lobbies. you have to remember thats going to be 9 groups per class or event. if there are 8 classes that would be 72 potential groups. 72 groups should leave enough in each group to then let live sort it by ping to group people playing close together geographically of clean level and skill level to reduce lag. you can split the pools or combine them as needed for the number of people playing online so you have decently populated lobbies and doesn't turn into a 1v1 hotlap session.



So your thinking a evolved version of trueskill rating? It could work but if you have to rely heavily on the system to know what is a crash and what isn't. For the deliberate crashers there would be no problem but once you start getting into the higher ranking will the system be able to tell the difference between love taps and full on crash? Also does the ranking follow every from of racing like trueskill or is it only set for circuit because that also causes probelms.


Not to put down the idea because it's very good I'm just saying it's hard to do these things when there is no human element to oversee it

Edited by user Tuesday, February 24, 2015 8:08:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#18 Posted : Tuesday, February 24, 2015 10:26:35 AM(UTC)
damage is already logged in the stats. a tap would cause light damage, a full on crash would cause a lot of damage. just use damage totals (the number that would be deducted from you winnings with damage turned on) rather than the total number of contacts. 1 heavy hit incurs more damage than 10 lite taps and would give more of a penalty. eventually the law of averages is going to take over and everybody would be properly sorted. it would only apply to raceing, not tag. its like true skill but with two layers. it would pre sort by damage 1st then finishing position (finishing position would be true skill). if you try to ram your way to the front you would be grouped with other rammers. the griefers would be put in races of all griefers . the law of averages is why casinos always win in the end. over time a consistent small difference will be enough to determine. eventually the guy who just taps 1 time less every ten races would have a higher rating. the cleanest of the clean would have the best rating. if the online population is big enough they would be grouped with other ulrta clean races.

it would be only for the turn ten racing hoppers. for private matches the person setting up the match can police it themselves. if you want to get on sunset oval (if its in, just an example not a claim) and have head on collisions to compete how can fly the highest or farthest it wont affect your rating in private or user created public lobbies (again example not claim).
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#19 Posted : Tuesday, February 24, 2015 11:50:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Black 97 Kouki Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rdo3 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
The better question is how could they do it, what actions would attract a penalty and what should the penalty be. Just asking for penalties or black flags could resign the post to the "Wishlist thread" never to be seen again :)
easy actually. rammers have more wrecks than average people. you start a scale of 1-100. if you have more wrecks than average you move down in a cleanliness rating, if you have fewer than average for the race you move up. lets say there are an average of 5 contacts per person, if you had ten then you are - 5 for the race. if you are clean but that jerk still used you for his brakes in turn 1 then you will have 1 contact so you would move up 4. do it by the race because there is more contact on shorter tracks. you also only have to keep the clean rating saved in memory, a single variable, you dont need the entire history log eating up hdd and ram space, you adjust the pre race rating to the post race average and save that as the new variable going into the next race.

within a few races the clean racers will move up and the dirty racers will move down, then you put all the rammers in the same lobbies together and let them play bumper cars till their hearts are content. you group the cleanest racers together. you group the average players together. it would be a self sorting system. this lobby is rated 1-33, another for 34-67, 67-100. yes that it large ranges but it could be split into smaller pools of every 20 or every 10 if needed. the reason i want large pools of to have a second rating to break the clean rating pools into smaller pools by finishing position average so you have competative races. do the same thing for a finishing position variablee so you will have a slow, medium and fast group in each clean group. then you are splitting people into 9 different pools/lobbies. you have to remember thats going to be 9 groups per class or event. if there are 8 classes that would be 72 potential groups. 72 groups should leave enough in each group to then let live sort it by ping to group people playing close together geographically of clean level and skill level to reduce lag. you can split the pools or combine them as needed for the number of people playing online so you have decently populated lobbies and doesn't turn into a 1v1 hotlap session.



So your thinking a evolved version of trueskill rating? It could work but if you have to rely heavily on the system to know what is a crash and what isn't. For the deliberate crashers there would be no problem but once you start getting into the higher ranking will the system be able to tell the difference between love taps and full on crash? Also does the ranking follow every from of racing like trueskill or is it only set for circuit because that also causes probelms.


Not to put down the idea because it's very good I'm just saying it's hard to do these things when there is no human element to oversee it


If I'm understanding Rdo correctly the system won't have to differentiate between a normal racing rub, a heavy impact or even a deliberate full on T-bone as each "incident" only makes up a tiny percentage of your overall movement up or down the scale. I guess it could just as easily take the total number of incidents in a race divided by the number of players and score each player against the average. Then, if it's an "action packed" (to be polite) race you could still be involved in a bit of trouble but be scored as clean.

This system could dovetail well with the Drivatar development. You know! I think he may be on to something :)

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#20 Posted : Sunday, March 8, 2015 5:13:28 PM(UTC)
I think they should do what they did with GTA V. Dirty players play with other dirty players and clean players play with other clean players. Also I think that you should have to pay for the dage you inflicted on other cars, not the damage other cars gave to you.
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#21 Posted : Monday, March 9, 2015 2:35:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: L0CK3D Go to Quoted Post
Yep, custom public lobbies kept the racing pretty clean. It was also nice for those days when my internet was less than solid. I could just search for lobbies that had collisions turned off, so my lag wouldn't affect anyone.

FM4 was the best


Collisions off,that represents a either a weak lobby or a weak host who is only after the glory of a win to rank themselves up,as for me i prefer collisions on as if you do get punted,shunted then the person who caused it gets kicked then blocked,simples ,Forza 3 and upwards went downhill as of the % due to the competiveness in upgrade of class,as in original and Forza 2 you could race a D class Cobalt against a barracuda or even a mini cooper and you knew it would be close,but since they decided to lower the % as of putting modifications that only pimp my ride or fast n loud would be proud of by puttiny a pick up truck ad even its bloody engine into another car which forgive if i am wrong wouldnt fit,I loved to race and overtake when possible but the part i hate is when you see the host saying collisions are on and goes through rather than around the outside or the inside by using the lag of the car in front,my friends mostly all on LBs through the Forza franchise have also commented on this and said the same to turn 10 to revert back to the true honest art of racing which resembles good clean racing for all those who love the adrenaline of not knowing where they will finish as all cars and drivers will be there to win,see you at the finish line.
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#22 Posted : Monday, March 9, 2015 2:54:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: rdo3 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
The better question is how could they do it, what actions would attract a penalty and what should the penalty be. Just asking for penalties or black flags could resign the post to the "Wishlist thread" never to be seen again :)
easy actually. rammers have more wrecks than average people. you start a scale of 1-100. if you have more wrecks than average you move down in a cleanliness rating, if you have fewer than average for the race you move up. lets say there are an average of 5 contacts per person, if you had ten then you are - 5 for the race. if you are clean but that jerk still used you for his brakes in turn 1 then you will have 1 contact so you would move up 4. do it by the race because there is more contact on shorter tracks. you also only have to keep the clean rating saved in memory, a single variable, you dont need the entire history log eating up hdd and ram space, you adjust the pre race rating to the post race average and save that as the new variable going into the next race.

within a few races the clean racers will move up and the dirty racers will move down, then you put all the rammers in the same lobbies together and let them play bumper cars till their hearts are content. you group the cleanest racers together. you group the average players together. it would be a self sorting system. this lobby is rated 1-33, another for 34-67, 67-100. yes that it large ranges but it could be split into smaller pools of every 20 or every 10 if needed. the reason i want large pools of to have a second rating to break the clean rating pools into smaller pools by finishing position average so you have competative races. do the same thing for a finishing position variablee so you will have a slow, medium and fast group in each clean group. then you are splitting people into 9 different pools/lobbies. you have to remember thats going to be 9 groups per class or event. if there are 8 classes that would be 72 potential groups. 72 groups should leave enough in each group to then let live sort it by ping to group people playing close together geographically of clean level and skill level to reduce lag. you can split the pools or combine them as needed for the number of people playing online so you have decently populated lobbies and doesn't turn into a 1v1 hotlap session.



In that case i would be on a lobby by myself as i dont think it goes any higher than Icon as i got wrecked all the time,i always got back on track and chased after the leading pack and passed the car responsible for my demise,didnt help but i did make them realise when you are headlight to exhaust that they are in a vulnerable position,and you dont clean them out more than all it makes them respect you and then they improve as better drivers,
Rank: Driver's Permit
#23 Posted : Tuesday, March 17, 2015 3:51:56 AM(UTC)
One way to fix this would be to match players based on assists. Those people running you of the track probably wouldn't make it past the first corner without TCS / ABS and other assists. It would als make training more rewarding for the hardcore players. It sucks racing against someone with no experience who can still beat you without effort.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Tuesday, March 17, 2015 7:53:26 AM(UTC)
kill sorry but that wont work. you do realize that even race cars have traction control and abs? infact they were invented for the track? before 3 or 4 launched, the first to have seabring raceway, they took forza to the event pre launch to show it off. they got the actual race drivers to try it out with the 3 screen, wheel, and perdals set up. pro indie drivers thought the game was flawed because it was not like real life, they were making mistakes they dont make in real life. they discovered that like you, someone had decided pro drivers dont need that stuff and turned it off, that was the flaw. so they turned those assists back on and it became so accurate they had drivers coming by wanting to use forza as a simulated practice when it rained. drivers who got paid millions a year, drivers we couldn't compete with, used the exact assist you mentioned. they would laugh at you as a noob for not useing them if you couldn't keep up. if you could beat them without the assist that would probably get respect, but losing without them wouldn't.

trust me, if someone is not faster without assists than they are with assists they should turn assist back on and disable them one at a time until they no longer need them. assists are safer but they are also slower by seconds a lap. sure they can keep up and cause problems in turn 1, but if you notice even when turn 1 wrecks are consistant the same people seem to win online and the same people seem to lose online. if you cant win at all its because others are betterm not because they are cheating. even the driving line will slow you down if you stick to it. it may be the safest line around the track, but its not the fastest.

i have been wrecked by people who dont use assist when they need them than by people who use assists thinking its going to make them faster. i would rather people who need assists use them. i would let you use every assist racing against me. if you take me out in turn 1 you might have a chance in turn 2 or 3. if not the assists will slow you down enough i dont have to worry about you haveing a chance to wreck me until i am lapping you. if assists are beating you, they dont need to turn them off, you need to turn them on.

another thing you will notice online is that every wreck is the other guys fault. the car behind is always going way to fast and the car ahead was going way to slow. most people are not as good as they think they are. probably me included. go ahead and make a ghost lap then turn every assist on and try to catch it. it should be impossible. its not even close. it should lap you in about 10 minuets. (except lemans and the ring due to lap length.) try it the other way make and all assists ghost then see how long it takes you to lap it without assists. assists make people slower not faster. look at rrivals leaderboards. they are dominate by the people who turn assists off not by those who use them.

if they need assists and turn them off what happens? they wreck? how does more wrecks make a cleaner race? and they probably wreck into you. it'll increase the number of times you get taken out not reduce them. can you beat the drivatars on unbeatable? turn on every assist and try it. they will be unbeatable. the people winning the races you are in have most or all of the assist turned off. thats why they are fastest. if you really are a top driver assists can not beat you. assists slow top drivers down, not make them faster.

if you need the assist online use it. there is no dishonor in useing assists. i would rather people use assists to not wreck me. to practice without assists race off line or rivals. dont learn in multiplayer, you are going to cause many wrecks learning to race without it.

turn every assist on and practice until you can run every lap clean and get almost identical lap times. then turn off 1 assist and race untill you can run consistent, clean laps again faster than your assist time then turn off one more assist. repeat that until you can race without assists. when you are finished there will be no assist that can beat you. someone with no experience beating you easily? not gonna happen. you'll be beating drivatars on unbeatable every time. if someone with no experience can beat you easily its time to practice some more. a lot more. if you can get two top 10 drivers from the leaderboards to race against each other one with assists one without, i would bet on the assistless to win every time even if #1 has to use the assists.

you turn on every assist and i am going to lap you, and i am not a top 100 driver. you might even be a better driver than me but the assists will slow you down enough i will lap you if the race is long enough.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#25 Posted : Tuesday, March 17, 2015 9:19:39 AM(UTC)
rdo3

"you turn on every assist and i am going to lap you" ummm how long of a race? what class? which game? which track?
in Forza 5 thereare few people have abs or tcs on & are in the top 10 so if the car is driven properly assists wont affect lap times.

"another thing you will notice online is that every wreck is the other guys fault." <-- so could I say everyone who has assists on will blame those assists for slowing them down?
I 'm not fast
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