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Rank: Driver's Permit
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#1 Posted : Saturday, February 21, 2015 3:38:23 AM(UTC)
Why does this thing turn so little? It surely turns more than. On a sharp corner it should be turning beyond 180 but it barely reaches a Max of 90. Please fix this.
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#2 Posted : Saturday, February 21, 2015 11:43:28 AM(UTC)
Are you talking the physical representation of the steering wheel to the tires or the graphical representation with the in-car camera view?
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#3 Posted : Saturday, February 21, 2015 2:08:48 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: The Shadow Edge Go to Quoted Post
Are you talking the physical representation of the steering wheel to the tires or the graphical representation with the in-car camera view?


I believe he means the latter.

However, I'd like both of what you mentioned there. If you used the open wheel cars on FM5 (more noticibly the Maserati 8CTF and the Lotus F1 car), the front wheels turn maybe 30°, yet the car acts like they've turned more 50°, and it doesn't look professional at all.

With the steering wheel, I would like to see an improvement. However, there will need to be more animations made to have the wheel spun, and the arms moved. Not only that, but each car wheel is different, so each car will have to be individually adjusted to fit. Not impossible, but if FM5 is anything to go by, T10 will want to cut corners where possible :)

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#4 Posted : Saturday, February 21, 2015 7:18:31 PM(UTC)
Its not just the representation, while playing with a wheel even with the DOR @900 you almost never have to turn the wheel more than 90*. It's like the ideal wheel position when using a wheel is the animated position when using the controller. Quite annoying and unrealistic to turn so little
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#5 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 12:13:11 AM(UTC)
It's likely to be relatively accurate in game. Open wheelers and race prepared cars have very fast steering racks and an F1 only has around 15 degrees of steering angle. I think it would be unrealistic to expect T10 to recreate all of the different steering ratios and steering angles for each and every car and as most play with a controller it would be irrelevant to most people. On the subject of steering input, just drive a normal road car at 70mph and then turn the wheel 180 degrees. You'd either spin out or roll and in most road cars that would only be around 12 degrees of steering angle. This is a difficult area for a game to get right because even if it's correct it looks and feels wrong.
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#6 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 2:08:38 AM(UTC)
I would much rather accurate steering angles, then we can actually use different DOR to get a feeling we are comfortable with rather than having to use 900dor on every car and still having it feel too sensitive. Would make catching slides in race cars more realistic and challenging as you won't have drift car amounts of steering lock. Either way it won't have much impact on controller users as there steering inputs are never one to one anyway



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#7 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 4:29:56 AM(UTC)
Perhaps this is an issue for XBox to look at. As I see it you should be able to adjust settings like rotational input to the levels you need in the controller menu rather than in a game and I'd imagine it should be a relatively simple thing to do within the Windows 8 environment. But then again ..................

Edited by user Sunday, February 22, 2015 4:31:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 10:08:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
It's likely to be relatively accurate in game. Open wheelers and race prepared cars have very fast steering racks and an F1 only has around 15 degrees of steering angle. I think it would be unrealistic to expect T10 to recreate all of the different steering ratios and steering angles for each and every car and as most play with a controller it would be irrelevant to most people. On the subject of steering input, just drive a normal road car at 70mph and then turn the wheel 180 degrees. You'd either spin out or roll and in most road cars that would only be around 12 degrees of steering angle. This is a difficult area for a game to get right because even if it's correct it looks and feels wrong.


No one is trying to turn 180* at 70mph. But even f1, LMP and gt cars turn the wheel at or near 90* ( sometimes more ) several times a lap at most tracks. Even with the steering at 900 DOR you only have to turn 90* for the tightest of hair pins. At 360 DOR you NEVER have to turn the wheel more than 45* in ANY car for ANY corner. Its just poorly done
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#9 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 12:57:55 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
I think it would be unrealistic to expect T10 to recreate all of the different steering ratios and steering angles for each and every car and as most play with a controller it would be irrelevant to most people.


Pcars does this actually, just fyi.
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#10 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 2:38:12 PM(UTC)
That's unlikely. Even the humble Honda Civic has five different steering ratios and on a number of cars the ratio is variable. PCars may well replicate a few different rack ratios depending on car but unless your gaming wheel has exactly the same lock to lock travel as the car you're trying to emulate it can't work. They would have to programme the steering to the input device and not the car.

I don't currently use a wheel but I hope the problem is fixed for you guys soon.
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#11 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 3:54:02 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
That's unlikely. Even the humble Honda Civic has five different steering ratios and on a number of cars the ratio is variable. PCars may well replicate a few different rack ratios depending on car but unless your gaming wheel has exactly the same lock to lock travel as the car you're trying to emulate it can't work. They would have to programme the steering to the input device and not the car.

I don't currently use a wheel but I hope the problem is fixed for you guys soon.


You do realise I have access to WMD and pCars right?



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#12 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 4:19:42 PM(UTC)
Lol dust it wouldn't matter if you were a programmer for pcars, he said it so it must be true
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#13 Posted : Sunday, February 22, 2015 10:50:42 PM(UTC)
It wouldn't matter if you had access to PCars and every car featured in the game. If you've an input device with 300* of travel and the car you're creating has 700* of travel they can't have the same steering ratio and wheel angle. It's simple mathematics. However, the fact that they've changed the virtual ratio of different cars is good enough.
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#14 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 9:48:12 AM(UTC)
The biggest problem with the graphical wheel is, that it responds only with a ridiculous latency with my Thrustmaster TX. And i think, there´s also an input lag too. Real sims like Assetto Corsa or R3E don´t have that. And the wheel provides only a very poor force feedback compare to those titles.

Edited by user Monday, February 23, 2015 9:49:12 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#15 Posted : Monday, February 23, 2015 1:44:58 PM(UTC)
I'd like to see simulation setting under steering assists actually mean SIMULATION, ie no filters.

Edited by user Thursday, June 29, 2017 3:11:32 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#16 Posted : Tuesday, February 24, 2015 5:31:51 AM(UTC)
Agreed. Hope they fix the cockpit view position while they're at it lol. Looks like you're in the back seat -__-

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#17 Posted : Wednesday, February 25, 2015 5:10:03 AM(UTC)
Well, first of all, I'm, super-glad this thread didn't get locked and got sent to the wish thread, by default.

I'm in that same line of long-time wishers just hoping T10 would pay attention to real-life wheel movement since the FM3 days when cockpit view was introduced.

Games like Asseto Corsa and PCARS replicate this almost perfectly - you really feel the front wheels working, and the car leaning and working hard to hit the apex around corners. Forza doesn't have the same feeling, and part of it has to do with the cockpit view wheel animation.

I would also like to add that during track driving, when you're tackling sharp bends even at higher speeds, it does require turning the wheel to 90 degrees or more to have enough front wheel bite. Around really sharp hairpins, you turn the wheel past 180 degs easily. Though this is going to differ between road cars, exotics, rally, open wheel and race cars.

1. It shouldn't be too hard to replicate real-life steering rack ratios. T10's cockpit views are stunning - the detail is top notch, the movement and inertia is convincing... that immersion breaks the moment you see the wheel behaving or the shifting animations for that matter.

2. Steering wheel or controller, we users should have animated wheels behaving realistically according to the car you're driving. And please, I humbly request you T10, remove those steering filters and hidden assists from the game - if I want to turn the wheel past 180 degrees at 80+ mph, please let me do that and bear the consequences. The game shouldn't decide how much I'm allowed to turn on a controller, based on my speed.

3. If filters are not going to be removed, at least give us an option to change to different levels of speed sensitive steering or turn it off.

REally glad somebody's raised a finger or two at this issue; I honestly thought they would have resolved this in FM5. In FM3, it felt so dead and stiff, got better in FM4, got a bit smoother in FM5, but doesn't go past 90 degs no matter what! If I'm going to full lock in the game whether my car's moving or not, I should SEE that in the cockpit view by way of the wheel going well past 180 degs.

Please T10, you have serious competition on your hands!

Edited by user Thursday, February 26, 2015 11:46:17 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#18 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 3:38:28 PM(UTC)
What's the reason of this strange moves with hands in this video 0.59-1.04 https://youtu.be/aWlp4eIhQkc?t=59s I couldn't understand why they didn't fix it in FM5...
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#19 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 3:46:42 PM(UTC)
It's the virtual driver adjusting his grip/exercising his joints. I don't see any issue with it.
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#20 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 3:47:53 PM(UTC)
What's wrong with it.
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#21 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 4:02:41 PM(UTC)
It looks fake as hell. Nobody ever do this ten times per minute. If u race you keep your steering wheel to turn, response fast and control your car. Do you ever saw real driver without rheumatism that's doing this?

Second problem is that this driver is you, so he should be doint only the things you want him to do. Change gear, look right, turn left, accelerate etc. Moving your hands in random manner kills imersion.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 16, 2015 4:04:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#22 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 4:05:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Verteru Go to Quoted Post
It looks fake as hell. Nobody ever do this ten times per minute.


Ten times per minute? You referenced a six second clip where the driver did it twice, once per hand.

Originally Posted by: Verteru Go to Quoted Post
Second problem is that this driver is you, so he should be doint only the things you want him to do. Change gear, look right, turn left, accelerate etc. Moving your hands in random manner kills imersion.


If the virtual driver mimicked you, the gamer, I think you'd be surprised at how many times your adjust your paws on the controller. Now, better get into your full racing gear before your driver mimics your couch potato attire. Heh.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 16, 2015 4:10:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#23 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 4:14:40 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Verteru Go to Quoted Post
It looks fake as hell. Nobody ever do this ten times per minute. If u race you keep your steering wheel to turn, response fast and control your car. Do you ever saw real driver without rheumatism that's doing this?

Second problem is that this driver is you, so he should be doint only the things you want him to do. Change gear, look right, turn left, accelerate etc. Moving your hands in random manner kills imersion.

Yes I agree, adjusting your hands like that round a corner is a little in-accurate but it doesn't kill the immersion. I have a TX wheel and yes I know it's not driving a car but I frequently adjust my hands, granted not going round a corner but that's just a tiny mistake, nothing major. What annoyed me about 5 was the guy flicking the air instead of actually flicking the paddled or not moving the shifter when changing gears. Plus they really don't adjust their hands often at all let alone when your going round a corner.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#24 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 5:04:29 PM(UTC)
You will actually find race car drivers will relax their hands on the straights. Especially in a long race. All the driving training courses have gone to actually recommended relaxing your hands on the straights.
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#25 Posted : Tuesday, June 16, 2015 5:06:58 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Grilo101 Go to Quoted Post
You will actually find race car drivers will relax their hands on the straights. Especially in a long race. All the driving training courses have gone to actually recommended relaxing your hands on the straights.

Yeah they do, it's tyring but what I was trying to get across was that they don't do that on corners which is what (though very rarely) forza drivers do.
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