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Rank: Racing Permit
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#1 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 3:23:16 AM(UTC)
Heading into Forza 6 would like to see the leaderboards go back to FM3 and FM4.

I loved the fact that all the leaderboards tallied up together so you had an overall time. Getting clean laps etc...I found FM5 just doesn't encourage you to go for all the tracks as they have been made individual through the rivals mode.

This is the best part of Forza and thought it was a step back.

Bring back those league tables please!!!
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#2 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 3:39:19 AM(UTC)
The only difference that exists is clean lap (no triangle) and time of cheaters (triangle).

Add restrictions of the top ranking at the bottom:
- At the top: players who do not use assists / gearbox manual / manual clutch ...
- Below this: players who use only the automatic clutch
- Below this: players who use automatic clutch and normal steering
- Below that ....
And at the bottom of the list all those who use assists

Another idea:
View rank Class + by model
If I am in 2000th CLASS C with mustang, what interests me is how I rank with all other mustang CLASS C!
Why? Because of cheated cars

Edited by user Thursday, January 22, 2015 3:41:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
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#3 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 6:13:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: No ABS ESP TCS Go to Quoted Post
The only difference that exists is clean lap (no triangle) and time of cheaters (triangle).

Add restrictions of the top ranking at the bottom:
- At the top: players who do not use assists / gearbox manual / manual clutch ...
- Below this: players who use only the automatic clutch
- Below this: players who use automatic clutch and normal steering
- Below that ....
And at the bottom of the list all those who use assists

Another idea:
View rank Class + by model
If I am in 2000th CLASS C with mustang, what interests me is how I rank with all other mustang CLASS C!
Why? Because of cheated cars


A triangle for dirty laps doesn't mean you cheated. Could have simple got drafted on by a player behind them.

T10 will never alter the leaderboard so that no assists are ranked at the top. What could be done instead is make TCS more of a hindrance than a benefit. However a filter for assists used would be neat.

You'll never know where you actually rank with a mustang if the leaderboards only record your one fastest time. If they recorded your fastest time per car that'll be a better guide; however, that would be a lot of saved data and I don't know if that'll be possible.

I can tell you right now you're way off pace in the stang in C class. Most will run top 300s and the '65 top 100s with no assists.
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#4 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 9:11:29 AM(UTC)
A return to the format of FM4, with the addition of per-car leaderboards, would be the best route.
More characters than sense.
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#5 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 10:28:09 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: No ABS ESP TCS Go to Quoted Post
The only difference that exists is clean lap (no triangle) and time of cheaters (triangle).

Add restrictions of the top ranking at the bottom:
- At the top: players who do not use assists / gearbox manual / manual clutch ...
- Below this: players who use only the automatic clutch
- Below this: players who use automatic clutch and normal steering
- Below that ....
And at the bottom of the list all those who use assists

Another idea:
View rank Class + by model
If I am in 2000th CLASS C with mustang, what interests me is how I rank with all other mustang CLASS C!
Why? Because of cheated cars


If you're slower than someone driving with assists, it's purely because you don't drive as quick as them. If you can't beat someone with automatic transmission when you're using manual with clutch, you're just worse than that someone.

As for cheated cars, the best drivers will still kick your ***. if they were using other cars,
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#6 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 3:42:54 PM(UTC)
Sorting, based on assists, is unnecessary but it also complicates overall leaderboards.

Given how many people want overall leaderboards I think we should keep the assists out of the equation.

The rally engine plus the 5.7 v8 need to be nerfed (FH2 seemed to sort out the rally engine - its useful on tight accel tracks but not so much on speed tracks).

Swerve's idea about nerfing TCS or something along those lines sounds good.

My preferred approach to leaderboards in FM6:

1. Keep the current class structure and add an overall leaderboard.

2. Add career leaderboards and an overall career leaderboard. These would be lap time based and you can run them in a rivals mode. eg if US muscle are running C class in career then there would be leaderboards for the tracks they run at in career for C class, US Muscle.

3. If endurance races are added I would let them have their own leaderboard structure (maybe based on miles driven if they are timed).

Edited by user Thursday, January 22, 2015 6:01:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I blame the ants.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 6:33:03 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Alexandre 50 Go to Quoted Post


If you're slower than someone driving with assists, it's purely because you don't drive as quick as them.

not true with TC with cars that are traction limited on tracks that are traction limited.


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#8 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 9:39:49 PM(UTC)
office and excell are coming to xbox one so sortable spread sheets shouldn't be a problem as long as access to the the personal times are accessible which i assume they are since forzastats is not an official ms server.
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#9 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 8:50:53 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Sorting, based on assists, is unnecessary but it also complicates overall leaderboards.

Given how many people want overall leaderboards I think we should keep the assists out of the equation.



Why is it unnecessary? It's just one more push of a button.

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#10 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 10:07:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alexandre 50 Go to Quoted Post


If you're slower than someone driving with assists, it's purely because you don't drive as quick as them.

not true with TC with cars that are traction limited on tracks that are traction limited.




They still would be faster than you if you both ran TC or both had it off. Are ego's that fragile round here, that we need some sort of reinforcement that so and so is only faster because of x?


Just stop. Just sayin.
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#11 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 12:41:46 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ECT Loco UBoG Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alexandre 50 Go to Quoted Post


If you're slower than someone driving with assists, it's purely because you don't drive as quick as them.

not true with TC with cars that are traction limited on tracks that are traction limited.




They still would be faster than you if you both ran TC or both had it off. Are ego's that fragile round here, that we need some sort of reinforcement that so and so is only faster because of x?


Its not just here....
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#12 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 2:09:28 PM(UTC)
i would really like to be able to sort by car so I can see how fast my car is compared to other people driving the same car. I am not fast, generally 10 s behind the leader but I still keep trying.

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#13 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 3:17:09 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BigDaddy01901 Go to Quoted Post
i would really like to be able to sort by car so I can see how fast my car is compared to other people driving the same car. I am not fast, generally 10 s behind the leader but I still keep trying.



What Forza is all about getting better and better with every lap.



Just stop. Just sayin.
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#14 Posted : Friday, January 23, 2015 3:22:20 PM(UTC)
If you're 5 seconds slower than person x in two different cars. It's likely you'll be 5 seconds slower or more in the same car. While being able to know what the fastest time every car is capable of would be nice. All the oddball people will still be at the bottom of the board seconds off. Reason being, it's not the car, it's the driver.


Just stop. Just sayin.
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#15 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2015 4:32:41 AM(UTC)
If you talking about class leaderbords,, the top times are the top drivers with the fastest cars. You need both to get your best time. The top 1% are all very good drivers, the car is what makes the difference.

Say in F1 the slowest driver in F1 with the fastest car would beat easy the fastest driver in the slowest car.
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#16 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2015 4:43:26 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ECT Loco UBoG Go to Quoted Post
If you're 5 seconds slower than person x in two different cars. It's likely you'll be 5 seconds slower or more in the same car. While being able to know what the fastest time every car is capable of would be nice. All the oddball people will still be at the bottom of the board seconds off. Reason being, it's not the car, it's the driver.


Agreed. l can't see any value in refining a leaderboard by car. I've NEVER thought "oh I wish I could refine this leaderboard to show only the car I'm using". It means nothing unless everyone else is using the same car as me. Seems like a way for slow people to make themselves feel better; just sayin'.
Rank: Racing Legend
#17 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2015 4:49:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: benjidordoni Go to Quoted Post
A return to the format of FM4, with the addition of per-car leaderboards, would be the best route.

Agree. I'd like to have that format.

Tier 9 - 14k points - Driving since 2010.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#18 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2015 5:02:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
If you talking about class leaderbords,, the top times are the top drivers with the fastest cars. You need both to get your best time. The top 1% are all very good drivers, the car is what makes the difference.

Say in F1 the slowest driver in F1 with the fastest car would beat easy the fastest driver in the slowest car.


Its a revelation; a faster car means faster laps! The difference between a Mercedes and a Marrusia was like 2-4 seconds a lap! If you're a F1 driver you shouldn't really be anymore than .5 slower than any other F1 driver all being equal. An F1 driver at the back of the grid is still an elite driver! You're not really saying much there. What separates the top 1% in Forza absolutely is not the car! You can be 10 seconds slower in the same car and still be top 1%. That is to say, the guy in 1st place isn't only better than the guy who just scraped inside the top 1% because he had a better car! Ferrari didn't pay Michael Schumacher £25 million a year because it's the car that makes the difference.
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#19 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2015 5:22:16 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alexandre 50 Go to Quoted Post


If you're slower than someone driving with assists, it's purely because you don't drive as quick as them.

not true with TC with cars that are traction limited on tracks that are traction limited.




While it's true traction control is beneficial in many instances, how much is often wildly blown out of proportion! If you've always raced without traction control there's nothing stopping you from competing with the best in the world, absolutely within .5 of anyone in the world regardless of assist. The way people go on is that if it wasn't for traction control and a certain leaderboard car that they don't want to drive they'd be right at the top rather than 10 seconds off.
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#20 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2015 12:39:04 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
I The top 1% are all very good drivers, the car is what makes the difference.




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#21 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2015 12:47:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
The top 1% are all very good drivers, the car is what makes the difference.


In a 10 lap race I wouldn't have any issue lapping a top 1% guy/girl on the boards in the same exact car. That isn't a very good driver.
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#22 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2015 2:38:59 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
The top 1% are all very good drivers, the car is what makes the difference.



Rank: S-Class Racing License
#23 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2015 4:22:19 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: o2R Dsquared 07 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
If you talking about class leaderbords,, the top times are the top drivers with the fastest cars. You need both to get your best time. The top 1% are all very good drivers, the car is what makes the difference.

Say in F1 the slowest driver in F1 with the fastest car would beat easy the fastest driver in the slowest car.


Its a revelation; a faster car means faster laps! The difference between a Mercedes and a Marrusia was like 2-4 seconds a lap! If you're a F1 driver you shouldn't really be anymore than .5 slower than any other F1 driver all being equal. An F1 driver at the back of the grid is still an elite driver! You're not really saying much there. What separates the top 1% in Forza absolutely is not the car! You can be 10 seconds slower in the same car and still be top 1%. That is to say, the guy in 1st place isn't only better than the guy who just scraped inside the top 1% because he had a better car! Ferrari didn't pay Michael Schumacher £25 million a year because it's the car that makes the difference.


Michael did anything to win including cheating and Traction control.
Some people don't, and they want to know how they fair by comparing the assists they use to others that uses the same assists.
Rank: Series Champion
#24 Posted : Saturday, January 24, 2015 5:16:28 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: o2R Dsquared 07 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
If you talking about class leaderbords,, the top times are the top drivers with the fastest cars. You need both to get your best time. The top 1% are all very good drivers, the car is what makes the difference.

Say in F1 the slowest driver in F1 with the fastest car would beat easy the fastest driver in the slowest car.


Its a revelation; a faster car means faster laps! The difference between a Mercedes and a Marrusia was like 2-4 seconds a lap! If you're a F1 driver you shouldn't really be anymore than .5 slower than any other F1 driver all being equal. An F1 driver at the back of the grid is still an elite driver! You're not really saying much there. What separates the top 1% in Forza absolutely is not the car! You can be 10 seconds slower in the same car and still be top 1%. That is to say, the guy in 1st place isn't only better than the guy who just scraped inside the top 1% because he had a better car! Ferrari didn't pay Michael Schumacher £25 million a year because it's the car that makes the difference.


Michael did anything to win including cheating and Traction control.
Some people don't, and they want to know how they fair by comparing the assists they use to others that uses the same assists.


The only assist not listed on the boards is the line, so if the line was back on the board it changes what?
What about wheel users with auto clutch function. They should be ranked lower then gamepad users with manual clutch right?
You will still place where you place.

Edited by user Saturday, January 24, 2015 5:18:44 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#25 Posted : Sunday, January 25, 2015 12:17:57 AM(UTC)
I think we should revert back to FM2 leaderboards but, keep the current penalty system.

The FM2 system, if I remember correctly, recorded your fastest times on a personal leaderboard, for every track.

As for the car making you fast, lol. I consider myself to be reasonably quick but even if I had Chronikz cars, my times would still be considerably slower.

Fast times = fast driver.
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