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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#851 Posted : Saturday, August 22, 2015 9:05:16 AM(UTC)
fortunately i dont care about paint. unfortunately mod powerups are now joining garbage cans and bowling in forza. if dan wants to make another pgr just make another pgr or horizon and leave fm for fm players. i might buy both as different games. but mixed together? its like putting hersheys syrup on a ribeye, it ruins both. and yes getting to the car and tune you want online before the timer runs out can be a pain, and even more of a pain if it puts you in a race and you have no idea which tune you are running until turn 1. i hate being "that guy" because i loaded a drift or drag tune for a real race accidentally.
Rank: On the Podium
#852 Posted : Saturday, August 22, 2015 9:41:23 AM(UTC)
Quote:
offer a sort function (i.e best rated, highest downloads etc)


I agree, a sort function would make everything a lot easier.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#853 Posted : Saturday, August 22, 2015 3:28:05 PM(UTC)
Hmmm I haven't played either F:H2 or FM5, but this doesn't sound very good (re: garage/dealership/paint organization). Am I reading this correctly: you can't even go to a manufacturer sub-menu when buying a car? You have to scroll through everything like you used to have to do in your garage? Jeez, I remember another thread asking for a kind of cool garage set-up where you could choose different garage styles, which car was sitting beside which else, etc. That was a great idea, and if PGR could to it years ago, and GTAV can do it now, it doesn't seem like such a huge ask.

Now, however, far from getting something like that, what it sounds like we're getting is actually moving in the opposite direction.

I feel like others here; I have no idea why they'd have to eschew something that's been working not just in Forza, but in driving games in general, for years and years. Maybe it's a licensing thing? Like, the manufacturers want us to have to "see" each one of their cars before we get to the one we actually want to buy?
Rank: Driver's License
#854 Posted : Sunday, August 23, 2015 3:06:59 AM(UTC)
Alpes: daily;
Bathurst sunset;
Brands Hatch: day and rain;
Catalunya: daily;
Hello all. Here is the combination of new effects on tracks from a gamescom article.

Circuit of the Americas: daily;
Daytona: day and night;
Hockenheim: daily;
Indianapolis: daily;
Laguna: daily;
Le Mans: day, night, rain;
Lime Rock: daily;
Long beach: daily;
Monza: daily;
Nurburgring: day, night, rain;
Prague: daily;
Road America: sunset;
Road Atlanta: daily;
Rio: daily;
Sebring: day, night, rain;
Silverstone day and rain;
Sonoma Sunset;
Spa: day, night, rain;
Track Test: day;
Top Gear: day and rain;
Watkins Glen Day;
Yas Marina: day and night!

I think the variations are very poor. There was a big hype with weather and night but it looks a little bit half ready.
Rank: Series Champion
#855 Posted : Sunday, August 23, 2015 11:23:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Garmac0r Go to Quoted Post
Alpes: daily;
Bathurst sunset;
Brands Hatch: day and rain;
Catalunya: daily;
Hello all. Here is the combination of new effects on tracks from a gamescom article.

Circuit of the Americas: daily;
Daytona: day and night;
Hockenheim: daily;
Indianapolis: daily;
Laguna: daily;
Le Mans: day, night, rain;
Lime Rock: daily;
Long beach: daily;
Monza: daily;
Nurburgring: day, night, rain;
Prague: daily;
Road America: sunset;
Road Atlanta: daily;
Rio: daily;
Sebring: day, night, rain;
Silverstone day and rain;
Sonoma Sunset;
Spa: day, night, rain;
Track Test: day;
Top Gear: day and rain;
Watkins Glen Day;
Yas Marina: day and night!

I think the variations are very poor. There was a big hype with weather and night but it looks a little bit half ready.

What's the difference between day and daily?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#856 Posted : Sunday, August 23, 2015 1:50:22 PM(UTC)
Jfiler,
I think it means it is Mandatory for you to race these tracks daily...........alright I am a smart donkey.
Rank: Series Champion
#857 Posted : Sunday, August 23, 2015 7:58:35 PM(UTC)
I asked Dan G and day and daily are the one in the same
Rank: Driver's License
#858 Posted : Sunday, August 23, 2015 9:35:10 PM(UTC)
It's pretty disappointing if there's no rain on Bathurst,, there's no real reason for them to have not done it if their thinking behind choosing the conditions was as they say, e.g rain on tracks that have rain racing and night on tracks that have night racing, Considering there's rain at most Bathurst 1000 races and the fact that rain racing is ingrained in the folklore of Bathurst with some of the tracks most memorable moments coming from wet weather racing it would have been a great addition to the motorsport memories career mode so it's a disappointing oversight, either they didn't do research on the conditions or they just decided is was too much work, what ever it is it's sad they haven't treated it with the same respect as the other tracks.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#859 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 9:08:09 AM(UTC)
Is that a confirmed list or just coming from that development chart that`s been floating around last week?

Well, if it is the final list it is disappointing indeed, even for someone who doesn`t really care about night and rain racing.
I had hoped they would offer two versions for each track, if night or rain was no option then use day/sunset variations.

It`s strange Turn10 don`t do that, once you have the track ready changing the skydome, rendering new lightmaps and probably do some adjustments shouldn`t be such a huge task.
Seems like a relatively easy way to add variety.
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#860 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 10:10:24 AM(UTC)
If this is true, then we only got 7 (seven!) tracks where rain can happen. Out of 26.

They said, they'd only offer rain on tracks where it's a realistic option. But leaving out a big number of potentioal rain-tracks (like Hockenheim, Road Atlanta etc,) seems a little weird.

The night races are even less. I count six tracks, there. That sure is a let down.

"If we do night and rain racing in Forza, we'll do it right". (sic) Greenawalt.

Well. Big words, but not much to see, so far. But yeah, hopefully that list is bogus.

Edited by user Monday, August 24, 2015 10:12:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#861 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 10:57:08 AM(UTC)
Hello guys

Yesterday i saw this list on design and trend/tech internet page then today there are more articles with leaked info on the variations. I think all the same wich is very disappointing. I think its a half ready game and they try to hide the fact with great speech. Maybe T10 need one more year to development but Microsoft push hard.

I have seen thie at EA with some games but it was not a good end. The big publishers should grant a little more time for development (for example 3 years for Forza) but they need money now so the developers are in bad situation.

I understand T10, they have to hide the truth with some hype, i dont blame them.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#862 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 11:19:36 AM(UTC)
The rain/night combinations are pretty disappointing and there's really no excuse for that. This is a very important feature that the community have been asking for a long time, and now they implement it in such a disappointing way. This is a half solution at best. Dynamic day/night cycles and weather would have been the right way. On every track. This static solution is just not good. Who would've thought that after Horizon 2 they still manage to skip this feature?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#863 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 12:13:22 PM(UTC)
I'm fine with the amount of night & rain tracks, just enough to keep the game interesting without getting annoying.

Hopefully every career race on the rain or night tracks isn't in the rain or at night too.

That info is from this screenshot right?

https://db.tt/NrKJFNexf

Edited by user Monday, August 24, 2015 12:15:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Mash Tuned since 2005 | Youtube | Mixer

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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#864 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 12:23:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: dreampage Go to Quoted Post
The rain/night combinations are pretty disappointing and there's really no excuse for that. ...
Dynamic day/night cycles and weather would have been the right way. ...


Disappointed as I am about that list, I disagree. It`s still about keeping smooth 60fps up and having everything work properly, which personally I value much higher than dynamic time/weather.
Just feels lazy to me not to support more variations per track.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#865 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 12:48:51 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ma5hEd Go to Quoted Post
I'm fine with the amount of night & rain tracks, just enough to keep the game interesting without getting annoying.

Hopefully every career race on the rain or night tracks isn't in the rain or at night too.



Agree 100%. I am not at all surprised about this, as the same thing happened when GT went to rain/night.

And somebody here called out DG for not making good on the "we want to do night racing and weather right" statement. I disagree with that disagreement, because my take on it means that "we may not have wet weather everywhere, but where we do have it, it's done to the nines." That is fine by me.

EDIT: Outlier's post below mine hits the nail on the head, and says what I was trying to say better than the way I put it.

Edited by user Monday, August 24, 2015 1:28:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#866 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 1:01:11 PM(UTC)
I was disappointed when details of FM5 were released that there was no dynamic weather and day/night transitions. I was really upset when I saw the small track list. But after a few DLC track releases I bought my xbox one and FM5 and LOVED it!

When Project Cars was finally released I thought "goodbye Forza... You should have implemented these great features but you are too late." But I ate my words. I actually love Project Cars, but my entire race league bailed because we were not able to run a single trouble free race. I haven't gone past one career series due to frame rate issues and other bugs.

...This is when I concluded that "doing it right" does not mean dynamic weather and night/ day transitions. Nor does it mean static night and static rain on every track. Doing it right means producing a game that provides fun, consistent, and bug free racing! The Forza titles have always provided some fun, consistent, and bug free racing so I expect the same for 6. The development priority from here seems to be focused on getting the car list and track list up. I think that is a good call.

On a side note - everything the Turn 10 team says in public is carefully thought out marketing. The statements indicating they'd "only offer rain on tracks where it's a realistic option", and "if we do night and rain racing in Forza, we'll do it right" are marketing spin meaning, "we are only able to provide rain and night on select tracks". They have a deadline for when the game needs to launch and they carefully manage their development to add as many new features as possible without jeopardizing the launch date.
Rank: Driver's License
#867 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 1:04:13 PM(UTC)
Will there be a vidoc about night like the rain vidoc that was released during gamescom?
Rank: Racing Permit
#868 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 3:18:19 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Outlier Go to Quoted Post

On a side note - everything the Turn 10 team says in public is carefully thought out marketing. The statements indicating they'd "only offer rain on tracks where it's a realistic option", and "if we do night and rain racing in Forza, we'll do it right" are marketing spin meaning, "we are only able to provide rain and night on select tracks". They have a deadline for when the game needs to launch and they carefully manage their development to add as many new features as possible without jeopardizing the launch date.


Sure it's marketing and sure it's well thought out and sure, they have their deadlines, just like everyone else. That's exactly what some people don't like about it. T10 have never held back as far as marketing goes, big numbers, nice, catchy phrases like the aforementioned. Usually, all this was justified and backed up by what the games offered. Since FM5 the development obviously eats more time / manpower / money / whatever, which is understandable, as games tend to get more complex with each year and we have a new console generation that offers and at the same time demands more. Better models, better textures, better everything. That this means more work overall is obvious and probably the reason why FM5 felt like a lot of work and a great accomplishment for T10, while the rest of the world thought "where's the rest of the game?".

Still, using the same bold marketing phrases and bragging about weather and night racing in the way they did seems a little misleading. If they feel that six out of 26 tracks offering night racing is "the Forza way of doing things" (or however that phrase goes), than I gotta say, that's probably not what a lot of people expect when they hear this statement. Compared with what other games offer, this feels a little behind.

I can understand they take their pick of tracks that night / rain will be offered on. I actually like the idea of not all tracks offering these conditions, since some just don't allow night races, or some places like Yas Marina just don't really see much rain. But they left out a whole lot of possible and in my opinion very interesting night / rain track combinations.

Sure, they might always come in form of a patch later on (hopefully), but after hyping up everybody about this the way they did, it sure feels somewhere between "a little" and "quite disappointing".

I, for one, believe they should have either eased back on the bragging or got some more rain and night in there.

Forza Horizon offered dynamic weather / daytime cycle in an open world environment. Sure, we got 30 more fps to be calculated here, but still. Shouldn't it be possible to offer some different day times, at least? I can't believe it would be _that_ time consuming. But it would change a whole lot in terms of atmosphere and thus replayability.

Edited by user Monday, August 24, 2015 3:21:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#869 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 7:21:53 PM(UTC)
Am I disappointed that all tracks don't have night and rain sure. Am I disappointed that I am not a a millionaire and retired so I can play Forza all day long, sure. But I don't always get what I wish for. My glass is half full not half empty! I am glad I have some tracks to play on that have rain and some that have night rather than none. Having a smooth running game that looks wonderful and sounds great is more important to me. Project cars had dynamic weather and night but look at all the problems they had and how many cars? About 30 or so? Forza gives us 450+ and the game runs smooth as glass. Hor do you think project cars would have been with 450 + cars? My guess is a lot worse than it already was. Be happy we get to race in the different environments or don't buy the game and play project cars.

Edited by user Monday, August 24, 2015 7:22:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#870 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 9:39:31 PM(UTC)
I wonder when they will start talking about in any vague detail the stories of Motorsport or anything online besides "we have leagues" Tracks, cars, mods are nice but they really need to start touching on races and things to do.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#871 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 9:55:22 PM(UTC)
Forza Motorsport has always been high quality and even quality for every piece of content. There have never been "standard" cars and "premium" cars, the quality was always high everywhere in the game. This tradition has been broken now by treating the tracks differently. Turn 10 is proud of night racing and rain, and they can be, but there are only 4 tracks out of the 26 that actually support all circumstances. This is uneven quality. Modeling rain in such a way was a bad decision. We can all understand why: no one has the time to go to every track and wait for rainy weather so they can go out and scan it. This is the result. If this is "the Forza way" then it is the bad way. That's why every other developer has been using dynamic circumstances. The puddles may not be at the correct positions (but that's not may be even true, because if you truly laser scan a track, you'll have data on where water can fill up in case of rain), but the environments will be alive. Time of day and weather could be dynamic on every environment. It would probably even take less time and work to do it, especially after Horizon 2 had this technology. I expected Turn 10 to break the rule of not being able to achieve 1080p/60 fps with dynamic weather, because if someone could have done it on Xbox One it was them. Instead, two thirds of the game just simply remained Forza 5. And I don't even start how the Forza 5 tracks remained exactly the same, so long time FM5 players will meet a lot of old content here.

I'm sure Forza 6 will be a very good game, but this is a big letdown. Treating content differently is not the "Forza way". The Forza way has always been about doing things that others can't. Now it seems others do things that Forza can't.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#872 Posted : Monday, August 24, 2015 10:28:12 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
Having a smooth running game that looks wonderful and sounds great is more important to me. Project cars had dynamic weather and night but look at all the problems they had and how many cars? About 30 or so? Forza gives us 450+ and the game runs smooth as glass. Hor do you think project cars would have been with 450 + cars? My guess is a lot worse than it already was. Be happy we get to race in the different environments or don't buy the game and play project cars.


Well said, exactly my thoughts!
I've bought P.CARS on release day, and man, what a disappointment it was! Until the first patch came the cars were undriveable with the controller. Players had to wait about two weeks for an acceptable controller fix. The game had a patch or two since then but it's still in a state what I call early beta state at best! The whole experience is ruined by many bugs, random crashes, design faults. You can't play it for an hour without experiencing some bug-related thing. P.CARS still feels a half-baked, low quality product. I'm not a multiplayer guy and I've lost my patience when I couldn't exit from TimeTrial without crashing the game repeatedly about 5 times. In this case - of course - the system doesn't save your best laptime. Can you imagine similar in a Forza game???

No, there is no simulator on XboxOne with dynamic weather. P.CARS has dynamic weather but it's not a sim - it's an unfinished product with a plethora of annoying bugs, a failed attempt. It can be amazing when it works but most of the times it doesn't work as it supposed to.

I've put Forza5 onto the shelf when I've bought P.CARS, I've just recently returned to play it again. And it was amazing to play with such a quality game again! No bugs, no slow-downs, no ugly and badly designed menus.

I'm sure that F6 will be also top-quality. I understand the deceison of the developers that not every circuit will have rain/night. Because the lights and the track surface is not dynamic in Forza making a new version of a track is not a half an hour job. New light set-up, re-texturing, setting up surface parameters - must be quite time-consuming if done by Forza quality standards. I think Forza6 will be the first real Forza on XboxOne: F5 will be remembered as Forza 6: Prologue.

Edited by user Monday, August 24, 2015 10:29:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#873 Posted : Tuesday, August 25, 2015 3:09:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
Having a smooth running game that looks wonderful and sounds great is more important to me. Project cars had dynamic weather and night but look at all the problems they had and how many cars? About 30 or so? Forza gives us 450+ and the game runs smooth as glass. Hor do you think project cars would have been with 450 + cars? My guess is a lot worse than it already was. Be happy we get to race in the different environments or don't buy the game and play project cars.


I also liked FM5 much more than PCars, but honestly, taking PCars as an 'example' why FM6 only has so few night / rain tracks is a bit weird. PCars is developed from the ground up, FM has had multiple instances now and FM6 is basically a blown up FM5 with more tracks, cars and the occasional night & rain track. I'm totally looking forward to it, but as far as I see it, the hype has been bigger than the actual product seems to deliver. Gran Turismo did Night & Rain, too, and they had more content in that regard. I don't think there's only the PCars or FM6 outcome. PCars was the buggiest racing game I've played. Don't think this is what usually happens when you use dynamic weather and day / night. Look at Forza Horizon 2. It could have been done.

And I am happy that we can race in different environments, I already preordered the Ultimate Edition. But you do understand that if they felt so confident about their six night tracks and seven rain tracks they could have told this right from the start when they announced these conditions? It just feels a little strange, holding the actual numbers back while boasting about the others. We found out accidently.
Rank: On the Podium
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#874 Posted : Tuesday, August 25, 2015 3:37:02 AM(UTC)
Quote:
Gran Turismo did Night & Rain, too, and they had more content in that regard.


Gran Turismo 6 did have dynamic time and weather, and although the game can run at 60FPS it's not locked to that. When racing online for example the rate would drop to 30 or even lower depending on the car/track/time/weather combination (Bathurst was particularly demanding). It was also not running at 1080p, but something lower.

Since Forza Motorsport 6 is targeting 1080p and a locked 60FPS, that poses a significant challenge, even for the current generation of consoles. It'll easily manage it during the day, but night and rain would pose significant challenges if set to dynamic, as it would need to render and update lighting/shadow in real time.

Forza Horizon 2 ran at 30FPS and has a more forgiving handling model, which explains why it could get away with dynamic effects.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#875 Posted : Tuesday, August 25, 2015 4:01:26 AM(UTC)
That doesn't explain the relatively small amount of night / rain tracks.
I guess they just didn't have the time to laser scan more tracks in wet condition. If that's the case, than maybe we'll get some night / rain DLC tracks later on.
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