2 Pages12Next
Rank: Racing Permit
 4 users liked this post.
#1 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 11:07:42 AM(UTC)
I've noticed there's been a few posts asking about gear tuning (both in here and on FM5) that rarely get answered. It seems most people opt for the sports transmission then just adjust final drive but I prefer to take full control and install the race transmission especially when the PI cost is low (seems to differ a lot in different cases depending on what car and what engine upgrades are installed as to the cost in PI).

Since I had to write something up explaining how I tune gears for a friend I though I may aswell write up a post and share it with everyone else aswell.

Ive tried to write this so that ANYONE can follow along and understand, so sorry for the over-detailed explanations.

I'm interested to know what people think about it, if any of the pro's disagree with my method or if anyone can give any merit to the science behind it, but so far it's worked pretty well for me.

I used to use the Forza Calculator to get my gears and noticed that it takes on board the drive tire size and the displacement, Im not sure how this affects the gearing, whether it affects the individual gears or if this information is more used towards the final drive, if anyone has any information on that then that'd be awesome.


Let get to it...

First off, BEFORE I adjust any individual gears I usually set my final drive so that the last gear reaches the end of the graph, this gives me nice wide ratio gears to begin with, im not too exact here as I will come back and change this later. You can also use the 0-100 and top speed indicators if you prefer but as I said, this is just a starting point and will get an idea of how the car will drive. Head to the highway and take her for a spin and pay attention to the sound of the car when shifting, you'll find some shifts just sound like they drop in RPM too much and some will shift too high in to the next gear, others will just sound perfect. Think about when youve watched races on TV and the sound of smooth gear progression you hear there.

First Gear.
I find this the hardest to get right especially with very powerful RWD cars. I try to lengthen this gear to the point that I dont get too much engine revving when accelerating from a stand still (not revving first). This usually sits between the 2nd and 3rd vertical line in the graph. If I get a lot of revving then I will lengthen it further, if I get none then I will see how it goes shorter. You'll get used to what works as you go along a few times but in general, using the graph as a guide and setting it between that 2nd and 3rd line will work well enough most of the time.

Second Gear
the most important one I find as it makes setting the rest much easier.
First, I find out my Peak Torque RPM to use as a guide as to where to set it. If you already know how to find your PEAK TORQUE RPM then skip ahead to the next highlighed section...

To find this, make sure you are in manual and head to the highway (or runway works well too). From a standstill or rolling, bring up your telemetry (hold down on the DPAD) and switch to your final gear. Begin accelerating and keep an eye on the TORQUE, it will rise up until a certain point then begin to drop again. This number varies a lot depending on your cars setup. Example, it will rise to say 397 then beging to decrease again. Now, you need to redo this and this time you want to KEEP NOTE OF WHAT THE RPM IS WHEN THE TORQUE REACHES IT HIGHEST POINT.

Eg: The Torque reaches 397 then begins to decrease again, Whatever the RPM is at the time the TORQUE reaches that 397 (its peak), that is the peak torque RPM, this is the number you want.

This can be difficult to see as some cars will climb faster others will do so slowly or will stay at the max torque for longer. Do this a few times over (you dont need to come to a complete stop each time just ease the brakes or release throttle until your RPM is lower and begin acccelerating again). If your having trouble you can say XBOX record that and watch the replay (I believe it has slowmo?), In any case, round this to the nearest 100, and if your stuck between 2 figures Ill generally round up. What this has done is given you a starting RPM for your second gear, use the graph and set your second gear so that the bottom of the line rests at the RPM figure you just got. What this means is that when you shift from first to second, providing you shift just at the redline, the RPM at second gear will begin at that number. If it set too long the car will bog down and youll be able to hear it struggling to climb the gear. If you set it too short the car will rush through the gears too quick and you will lose a lot of top end speed, also in lower gears you may still be spinning the tires in 2nd and even 3rd gear if its set too short.

SETTING YOUR SECOND GEAR
Anyway, now you have a starting point for your second gear. If you tend to short shift then however much RPM you short shift by, ADD that from the peak torque RPM when setting your second gear, if you shift a little later then SUBTRACT that amount. If you drive Auto then keep in mind that it will always short shift by a few hundred RPM so this will needed to be ADDED from your PEAK TORQUE RPM. Confused? Ill try explain this better.

If your redline begins at 7000RPM and you shift from 1st to 2nd just as your RPM hits 7000, then the RPM of your 2nd gear will begin exactly where the bottom of the line in the graph is set. If you shift gears a little earlier, say at 6800 RPM, then the RPM when hitting 2nd gear will be lower by the same amount, in this case by 200RPM. When driving an AUTO, the gearbox will always short shift, usually by a couple of hundred RPM, so when setting your second gear you will need to make sure that you factor that in, this can be done easily by driving in a straight line and taking note of your RPM when your car shifts gears (either in telemetry or by looking at the needle in your tacho). However much the difference is (say 300 RPM) is how much you will want to ADD to the PEAK TORQUE RPM that you want to set your second gear to, otherwise when you shift into second you will be UNDER the ideal RPM and your car will bog down. Obviously if you tend to shift later (after redline) then you will want to SUBTRACT the amount you overshift by when setting second your gear.

Right, hope that all made sense.

Third gear and beyond.
Now that thats all done the rest is fairly simple. The following gears should never drop below that RPM figure that you set your second gear, in fact no gears should ever start at less RPM than the gear before it. If second gear is set to begin at 4500RPM then 3rd gear should begin at something higher.
What you want to achieve here is a nice gradual curve in your gears starting points (the bottoms of the lines in the graph), this curve should be steep to begin with and then begin to level out in later gears. I will usually just do this by eye from looking at the graph to get a startig point, remembering that each gear should start at a higher RPM each time, as you get further into gears (say 5th and 6th) the starting RPM will start to level out.
Im not sure how else to explain this so I've drawn up a really dodgy picture to help, it may also help clarify anything in the previous paragraph.


post a picture

So in this graph you have the RPM on the left, the black lines represent gears, the bottom of these lines indicate what the starting RPM is for that gear and the top of these lines indicated the redline RPM, along the bottom you will have the speed, basically how fast you will be travelling at each stage of the gear progression.
The RED line that I added would have been the MAX TORQUE RPM, you can see how the second gear was set to be right at that line.
The BLUE line shows the curve that your aiming for with the remaining gears, you can see how it straightens out as the gears progress.

OK, hopefully that made a but more sense, now comes the testing.

Take your car out to the highway or the airfield and take it for a spin. What you want to do here is listen out for that shift between 1st to 2nd, It shouldnt bog down too much but it shouldnt start too high, if youve done everything correctly and shifted at the correct time then this should be fine as it is, if not feel free to make some adjustments, I will typically favour a shorter gear in 2nd and place it 100-200RPM above the peak torque RPM). Now you want to move to your 3rd gear, listen out and try to get a similar sound or feel to it, it wont necessarily be the same pitch but you will be able to tell if its starting in too low an RPM as it will literally sound like the car loses power. The same goes for if its set too high, you will hear it start much higher than the previous gear, Your aiming for a nice smooth transition both in sound and in feel. Always worrk on one gear at a time and work your way UP, if you work backwards and make any changes to a lower gear it will change the way the remaining gears shift aswell so work your way UP. Once you have 3rd gear sounding smooth you can move on to 4th gear, and so on and so forth. The final gear (as in LAST GEAR, not to be confused with the FINAL DRIVE) can be a bit tricky, it kind of depends on your car but if you have a car that is reaching its top speed quite quickly then you may want to have a slightly longer final gear so that it doesnt top out too soon and bounce on the limiter, this will give you a slightly higher top speed but it will take longer to reach it. Other cars will almost never have enough room to reach its top end so you may opt to have a shorter final gear that will climb quicker but reach its top speed earlier, the same can be said for 5th gear in many cases. This pretty much comes down to preference, I will usually just lenghten my last gear so that it reaches its maximum without bouncing (as in revving at its limit).
It will take some practice to work out the sounds of the engine and what sounds right and what doesnt, and despite this being a rather long-winded tutorial of sorts, its actually a pretty quick process (I'll have a reasonably good tune within 5-10 minutes and another 5 minutes of really fine tuning from there).

And thats it, hopefully you've now got a car that's purring like an angry kitten on crystal meth and that stays reasonably well within its powerband.

From here you can make final changes to the FINAL DRIVE gear, This will allow you to SHORTEN or LENGTHEN your gears, depending on if you want more top speed or acceleration but will maintain the ratios of all the individual gears that youve just spent all that time getting right. You can use the 0-100 and top speed indicators to try get the most out of this but i personally think those indicators are broken, Im not sure if they consider wheelspin or what parameters are involved with it but they work ok as a guide.

Anyway, I hope this has helped explain a few things to people and hopefully it helps you get a bit more performance out of your vehicles.

I will say that I appologise greatly if any of this info is counter productive or just wrong, Im only sharing what Ive found to work for me and wanted to share my methods with everyone else, Im not a mechanic or tuner in real life or anything so theres no guarantee that any of this is accurate but... well... its a game, try it, play around with it, and if it doesnt work, try a different method.

Last note, when t comes to sepcific tunes for specific tracks and purpose, you can use the speed notations on the graph to see what speeds you will be doing at different gears, this can be handy for drifters aswell to try and keep a certain averaged speed within the middle of a specific gear.

Hope you enjoyed it, now go get racing!

--Ruddy88
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 4:25:43 PM(UTC)
You did a great job explaining yourself Ruddy.
Awesome post.

Let me add a bunch of gobbily stuff that I learned while researching the gearing aspect of cars.

Bunch of math:

Wheel stuff (Important):
Tire Diameter = Rim Diameter + ( ( Section Width * ( Aspect Ratio * 2 ) ) / 25.4 )
Width in inches = Section Width / 25.4
Section Height in inches = Width in inches * Aspect Ratio (%)

Motion:
1 Miles / Hour / Sec. into Feet / Sec. / Sec. = 1.466666667
Gravity (G)= 32.174
AccelerationGs = ( ( 60 * 1.466666667) / "Forza 0-60 s" ) / 32.174

Gear Stuff:
Final Drive (differential) = ( RedlineRPM * Tire Diameter ) / ( "Forza Top Speed" * 336 )
First GEAR = ( ("AccelerationGs" * Car_Weight ) * ( ( DriveTireDiameter * 0.5 ) * 12 ) ) / ( "Forza Torque" * FinalDrive )
NEW GEAR = Desired After Shift RPM * Old Gear / Shift RPM
Keep doing this to get the next gear.

Optional. ( best mathmatical drive given Final Drive formula )
LAST GEAR = ( ( ( ( ( 120 * PI() * ( DriveTireDiameter * 0.5 ) * Redline ) / "Forza Top Speed" ) / FinalDrive ) / 12 ) / 5280 ) )



Also a search for "drive train" on google or wikipedia is good. Or YouTube: "Guns Cars and Digits" he has a good video on gears in forza.
I spent weeks reading and learning.
Your post is very good.

Edited by user Wednesday, November 19, 2014 8:31:09 AM(UTC)  | Reason: fixes

My completely open source tunes for: Forza Motorsport 5 & Forza Horizon 2.
Rank: Racing Legend
#3 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:00:33 PM(UTC)
Ruddy how often do you get to max out your 6th gear on the track?

I suspect it is usually too long.
I blame the ants.
Rank: Racing Permit
#4 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 6:52:43 PM(UTC)
SpotTheKitty, cheers for that I'll look in to it a bit more when im home, love me some maths.

SatNiteEduardo, In a race? not very often unless they hit the highways, but when im just in freeroam hammering down the open road I hit it all the time, or near enough, that is to say if the car tops out at 173 I may reach 170 and itll be struggling to get those last few miles. I do tend to set them a bit long but still within an achievable range. I HATE when my car tops out and you hear the engine revving, dont know why but it just infuriates me.
Why'd you ask anyhow? something in my post obviously but just wondering what.
Rank: Racing Legend
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 18, 2014 9:56:50 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ruddy88 Go to Quoted Post
SpotTheKitty, cheers for that I'll look in to it a bit more when im home, love me some maths.

SatNiteEduardo, In a race? not very often unless they hit the highways, but when im just in freeroam hammering down the open road I hit it all the time, or near enough, that is to say if the car tops out at 173 I may reach 170 and itll be struggling to get those last few miles. I do tend to set them a bit long but still within an achievable range. I HATE when my car tops out and you hear the engine revving, dont know why but it just infuriates me.
Why'd you ask anyhow? something in my post obviously but just wondering what.


A few things.

Early in your post you mention that you adjust it so final drive hits the end of the graph. I know you say you come back later but your method later really does not change it much.

In short you are really tuning your gears for the open road, for free roam, for the end of the Mulsanne straight. That is fine as long as those are the activities you are tuning for.

But for races and hotlapping you rarely will get much use from your 6th gear. That may not be a problem, however you have spent a fair bit of PI to get that 6th gear - I would want it to improve my times if I have spent PI on it. Because of that I actually very rarely get the race transmission, but if I do I don't waste any gears.

I blame the ants.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 4:42:55 AM(UTC)
Thanks Ruddy for taking my post as added info and not a discredit to your hard work of a post.
I was hoping to just add some supplemental material. :)

Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post

A few things.

Early in your post you mention that you adjust it so final drive hits the end of the graph. I know you say you come back later but your method later really does not change it much.

In short you are really tuning your gears for the open road, for free roam, for the end of the Mulsanne straight. That is fine as long as those are the activities you are tuning for.

But for races and hotlapping you rarely will get much use from your 6th gear. That may not be a problem, however you have spent a fair bit of PI to get that 6th gear - I would want it to improve my times if I have spent PI on it. Because of that I actually very rarely get the race transmission, but if I do I don't waste any gears.



SatNiteEduardo:
Don't forget the weight reduction that comes with transmission upgrade.
On a 2010 Abarath 500 Esseesse that is 3 lbs from sport to race. (-3 lbs = +1 HP) at the expense of 2 PI.
Also faster shift time.

Edited by user Wednesday, November 19, 2014 4:44:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

My completely open source tunes for: Forza Motorsport 5 & Forza Horizon 2.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 7/5/2042 11:21:58 AM(UTC)
#7 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:10:49 AM(UTC)
Race transmission is a complete waste of PI in 90% of cars. The same can be said for most drivetrain swaps given that they come equipped with a 6 speed. Stock or street transmission + more power is the way to go. In certain cases like some older muscle cars a sport transmission can be beneficial to adjust the final drive and prevent the car from rev banging.

Originally Posted by: Spot The Kitty Go to Quoted Post
Don't forget the weight reduction that comes with transmission upgrade.
On a 2010 Abarath 500 Esseesse that is 3 lbs from sport to race. (-3 lbs = +1 HP) at the expense of 2 PI.
Also faster shift time.


Yes, in rare instances the PI cost of a race transmission is negligible. For most cars it eats up 5, 10, sometimes 15 PI. Also lol @ 3 lbs weight reduction.

And all that math nonsense is a bit overkill considering this is Horizon 2 and not Assetto Corsa.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:20:23 AM(UTC)
To elaborate on what satnighteduardo is saying:

First the car should be driven without the race gearbox to figure out if the gearbox is even required. You will get more use out of the pi if u add power/grip rather than a race gear box just to have gear adjustability when more often then not it is not needed.

Now my second issue with your method is u are buying a race gearbox just to build a general set of gearing... If you are going to tune each individual gear you should tune it towards a track/ layout specifically to make the pi and tuning worth the effort.

Another issue here is you are talking about max torque being the be all end all in shifting, however you are forgetting about something completely, the hp curve. Your torque curve may match up very poorly with your power curve which would require u to do some funny things. You need to pay attention to where u are acheiving max hp also.

Another thing I do which is done in the driving and not in the tuning is i shift to stay within this range and let the track dictate my shifting apposed to tuning a base and then being pretty much stuck with it.

The one pro to your tuning method is that you may get a pretty good lobby gearing, can work for most tracks but great at no tracks.

More food for thought. If you are using all of the cars capable speed yet rarely in a race reach that speed and are wasting gear you are actually losing a substantial amount of torque/acceleration that could be picked up by once again tuning to where you are trying to use it.

Another thing you may not be thinking about, you are setting ur car up to run a 6 gear setup, there are many many tracks in fm5 where the car can be tuned to use 2-3 gears total for the entire track after the initial takeoff. For instance was racing alps in c class last night, the car i was using was setup to use 2 gears for the whole track once you were up to speed.

PTG Home

Race Team
Tester
Tuner
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:50:18 AM(UTC)
Good points. ( and yes lol at my weight reduction, :) Some like to race others like to math.)
What Ruddy has done here has written something that a brand new tuner can wrap their head around and it might help them on to more advanced tuning techniques down the road.
My hat is off to Ruddy for that. I wish I had his write-up when I started.

Also,
Default gears for 6 speed is always if you don't of can't change them:
2.89
1.99
1.49
1.16
0.94
0.78

Default for 8 speed:
4.70
3.13
2.10
1.67
1.28
1.00
0.84
0.67

If you like those, super!

Edited by user Wednesday, November 19, 2014 7:01:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

My completely open source tunes for: Forza Motorsport 5 & Forza Horizon 2.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 7:36:41 AM(UTC)
its not that people like the default gears, its that the race transmission is not required most of the time, so what the race gearbox is doesnt matter. A cars stock 4,5, or 6 speed is often well enough, equip it to sport so the final drive can be adjusted and boom none of the gear tuning even mattered, just adjust it so u are getting near end of final gear on longest straight, adjust a little if needed so you are not shifting a few hundred feet before ur breaking points on a corner. boom done.

PTG Home

Race Team
Tester
Tuner
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 7:55:58 AM(UTC)
I think that Ruddy knows that other upgrades may be more beneficial than the race transmission, but that wasn't really the point of the thread. His point is a little beyond that; he is saying, "O.K. you've added a race transmission. Now what? What do you do if you don't like the gearing the way it is?"

As SatNiteEduardo mentioned way up there somewhere about 6th gear - on a couple cars in FH2 where for whatever reason I have gone to add the race transmission and not been in S2 or X class, I have actually found myself almost tuning 6th gear out and making it, in essence, a 5 speed (5th and 6th gear are both there but identical).

I do admit I'm not the best and most knowledgeable when it comes to tuning the gears and I am still attempting to learn. From that regard, I appreciate this thread as it has given some insight and ideas I can look at and take from. Thank you.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 4:27:49 PM(UTC)
This thread is a great read. Thanks all.

This is going to be one of my reference threads as there are some great ideas and philosophies in here.
Click to watch Sim and Realword Driving Videos

PC & XB1
Next Level Racing GT Ultimate v2
Fanatec Clubsport: Wheelbase v2.5 | Inverted Pedals v3 | SQ Shifter v1.5 | Universal Hub for XB1
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 7:08:55 PM(UTC)
Great read OP. Too much science for me though, and I think it's easy to overthink these things. On the rare occasions I have to tune a race box I just look to keep the acceleration as seamless and consistent as possible, and the car tractable and circuit friendly. If it's not still pulling at the end of the longest straight, if your gears are overspaced (lazy getting back into the peak power band) or underspaced (you're having to shift too often), if you are having to use too high or too low gears for some corners, if your exit gear shifts are occurring too soon after apexing, or worse, while you are stil mid-corner, you need to make an adjustment or compromise somewhere. Other than that, if the build and engine are adequate, you probably aren't going to find much time through tuning gears. Better to tip the PI into the engine bay or tyres.

Edited by user Wednesday, November 19, 2014 7:09:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Legend
#14 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 7:26:32 PM(UTC)
There was a thread I think on the FM5 forums but I can't remember how long ago that discussed ideal shifting points.

One theory (or is it fact?) put forward was that you need to maximise the average hp across the used rev range.

This occurs when changing up when the hp before and after the gear change are the same.

If I was to tune a race gearbox to help with this I believe the blue line on the graph in the OP should be flat between 2nd and 6th gear and each gear would be parallel lines.

On the odd occasion when I use race gearboxes that is how I tune them.

I blame the ants.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:03:26 PM(UTC)
Isn't there an app that does all the maths for you?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:34:46 PM(UTC)
I use the race transmission to make up for my full aero.
Let me example:

No Tuning, Stock transmission, Aero Front 75; Rear: 135
Acceleration
0 - 60 MPH:   3.414 S
0 - 100 MPH: 6.156 S
Top Speed:    219.6 MPH (212.6 MPH if 100/200 Aero)
Lateral G's
60 MPH:   1.10 G
120 MPH: 1.27 G

Race Transmission, Kitty Tuned, Aero Front: 100; Rear: 200
Acceleration
0 - 60 MPH:    3.351 S
0 - 100 MPH:  6.057 S
Top Speed:     216.8 MPH
Lateral G's
60 MPH:      1.11 G
120 MPH:    1.31 G
216.8 MPH: 1.71 G

So that is another good reason to go with a race transmission. But that is just me :)

Edited by user Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:39:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

My completely open source tunes for: Forza Motorsport 5 & Forza Horizon 2.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 11/28/2042 2:06:57 PM(UTC)
#17 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:09:37 PM(UTC)
Forza 5

1st gear- set to minimize wheelspin at launch.

3rd gear- keep it wider than 2nd and 4th spaced out a bit more than those two. Most cornering is done in third helps keep you from shifting up then down for a corner.

6th gear set so that it is just about at redline at the end of the tracks longest straight.

97 Civic in C class around Rd. Atl club will run very tightly spaced gearing with a final drive set to the left or for speed.

Lotus and the like usually set the final drive to accel all the way right then run the gears wide to make use of the torque.

Speed tunes usually set final drive towards speed and wider gearing to help control wheelspin.

787b is tuned to run a 4 speed.


Just stop. Just sayin.
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:17:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
There was a thread I think on the FM5 forums but I can't remember how long ago that discussed ideal shifting points.

One theory (or is it fact?) put forward was that you need to maximise the average hp across the used rev range.

This occurs when changing up when the hp before and after the gear change are the same.

If I was to tune a race gearbox to help with this I believe the blue line on the graph in the OP should be flat between 2nd and 6th gear and each gear would be parallel lines.

On the odd occasion when I use race gearboxes that is how I tune them.



I get the part about the gears being parallel lines to each other, but I'm not sure what yo mean about the blue line in the OP being flat. Do you mean straight but still with an increasing slope or do you really mean flat as in no slope, horizontal?
Rank: Racing Legend
#19 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:47:41 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PPiDrive Go to Quoted Post

I get the part about the gears being parallel lines to each other, but I'm not sure what yo mean about the blue line in the OP being flat. Do you mean straight but still with an increasing slope or do you really mean flat as in no slope, horizontal?


Horizontal.

The ideal shift point is the ideal shift point for all gears. If that happens to be shift at 6,000rpm and catch at 4,500rpm then that is the ideal shift point for every gear change.
I blame the ants.
Rank: Racing Legend
#20 Posted : Wednesday, November 19, 2014 10:54:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Spot The Kitty Go to Quoted Post
I use the race transmission to make up for my full aero.
Let me example:

No Tuning, Stock transmission, Aero Front 75; Rear: 135
Acceleration
0 - 60 MPH:   3.414 S
0 - 100 MPH: 6.156 S
Top Speed:    219.6 MPH (212.6 MPH if 100/200 Aero)
Lateral G's
60 MPH:   1.10 G
120 MPH: 1.27 G

Race Transmission, Kitty Tuned, Aero Front: 100; Rear: 200
Acceleration
0 - 60 MPH:    3.351 S
0 - 100 MPH:  6.057 S
Top Speed:     216.8 MPH
Lateral G's
60 MPH:      1.11 G
120 MPH:    1.31 G
216.8 MPH: 1.71 G

So that is another good reason to go with a race transmission. But that is just me :)


My approach to your conundrum would be use street transmission and add more horses. With the higher hp you get you should get a higher top speed and probably both in the stat screen and on track.

Adjustable gears can only go so far if you don't have enough horses.

There is only one correct science to tuning in my opinion and that science is the science of lap times.

Lap times seem better with street tranmission + engine upgrades (in most cases) compared to race transmission. As always test various options but people have already done a lot of the testing for you and they are setting quick times.
I blame the ants.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Thursday, November 20, 2014 4:38:49 AM(UTC)
This is a very valuable thread and is written very well. This part of tuning is very tricky and very hard to get people to explain. However this is probably the best thread on this subject.

AKA: SP01LED JAM1E.
Twitter = @PTG_Jamie
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:17:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Spot The Kitty Go to Quoted Post
I use the race transmission to make up for my full aero.
Let me example:

No Tuning, Stock transmission, Aero Front 75; Rear: 135
Acceleration
0 - 60 MPH:   3.414 S
0 - 100 MPH: 6.156 S
Top Speed:    219.6 MPH (212.6 MPH if 100/200 Aero)
Lateral G's
60 MPH:   1.10 G
120 MPH: 1.27 G

Race Transmission, Kitty Tuned, Aero Front: 100; Rear: 200
Acceleration
0 - 60 MPH:    3.351 S
0 - 100 MPH:  6.057 S
Top Speed:     216.8 MPH
Lateral G's
60 MPH:      1.11 G
120 MPH:    1.31 G
216.8 MPH: 1.71 G

So that is another good reason to go with a race transmission. But that is just me :)


Kitty you are actually arguing the point me and satnight are making. all you are getting out of the tune is 4.2 miles per hour in your top speed ranking by adding a race transmission. You 0-60 and 0-100 times arent much different. You also have to remember to throw those numbers out the window because they are basically useless. If the game doesnt shift at the optimal shift point then you are losing a lot from the race gear box that can be picked up by a person, and the game DOES NOT choose optimal shift points. However, how much pi was used to go from the stock transmission on this car to the race transmission? I can almost guarantee without putting in the race trans and without tuning gearing you could put some other power component on, reach the same top speed or higher and have never adjusted anything. You are comparing apples to oranges... Because you are now comparing cars with different pi's. Yes you are comparing the same car, but u are comparing with modded vs stock.



PTG Home

Race Team
Tester
Tuner
Rank: On the Podium
 1 user liked this post.
#23 Posted : Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:26:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Spot The Kitty Go to Quoted Post
I use the race transmission to make up for my full aero.
Let me example:

No Tuning, Stock transmission, Aero Front 75; Rear: 135
Acceleration
0 - 60 MPH:   3.414 S
0 - 100 MPH: 6.156 S
Top Speed:    219.6 MPH (212.6 MPH if 100/200 Aero)
Lateral G's
60 MPH:   1.10 G
120 MPH: 1.27 G

Race Transmission, Kitty Tuned, Aero Front: 100; Rear: 200
Acceleration
0 - 60 MPH:    3.351 S
0 - 100 MPH:  6.057 S
Top Speed:     216.8 MPH
Lateral G's
60 MPH:      1.11 G
120 MPH:    1.31 G
216.8 MPH: 1.71 G

So that is another good reason to go with a race transmission. But that is just me :)


1. You are never going to hit 219 MPH.....pointless
2. The benchmarks aren't worth a flip and are wrong.

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Thursday, November 20, 2014 6:49:27 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post

Because you are now comparing cars with different pi's. Yes you are comparing the same car, but u are comparing with modded vs stock.


Actually I had Stock and Race as a choices, because of a drive train swap.
The difference between Stock and Race was 1 PI.
Those numbers came from untuned Race transmission and tuned Race transmission. An untuned Race transmission and the Stock transmission both have 6 gears and we all know the default values for those gear ratios. So I was trying to compare Apples to Apples as best I could. Yes, it is anal, yes it is time consuming, yes the numbers mean nothing until you race. But, I like the maths, I like the numbers, I the immersion of being able to fine tune the car or at least fake myself out, so I feel like I'm out there part of a race team.

Also I'm brain damaged if you haven't surmised by now. I don't mind, I don't bring it up for sympathy, I will never drive as well as 99.9% of you. I can not remember a full track no matter how many times I races it. So, I take on the role of the grease kitty, and it is fun. I try to tune cars that I can drive. If I can drive it, I know that 90% ( the casual players ) can drive it. It is a game after all. We all have fun in different ways. I'm grateful I've been able to learn something I've never known before and experience as best I could without actually doing it for real. It is pretty cool.

Plus you all are really awesome nice people and I feel part of a community. I think it has been a good discussion, and sometimes someone needs to play devils advocate to see things from all angles. Thanks for taking me on and helping me in the past. I look forward to more discussions and also smashing into your drivatars :)

Edited by user Thursday, November 20, 2014 7:08:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

My completely open source tunes for: Forza Motorsport 5 & Forza Horizon 2.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#25 Posted : Thursday, November 20, 2014 8:13:54 AM(UTC)
Makes a bit more sense. This is one of the instances it may be worth it to add a race box, as all you are doing is adding tunability and removing a small amount of weight for 1 pi. Most instances it cost much more than that. This is not typical and more often then not the cost of the race gearbox is much more expensive than that in pi cost. You found the anomaly not the norm.

However, as worm was saying, those statistics on the left should be ignored. I use none of that or the telemetry to tune and have turned out top 20 or better tunes only by feel.

PTG Home

Race Team
Tester
Tuner
2 Pages12Next

Notification

Icon
Error