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#1 Posted : Saturday, January 18, 2014 8:38:45 AM(UTC)
If you have anything to add to it let me know and I'll be glad to do so.

Thanks



First Rule: Fix the end of the car that has the problem. If it's the rear sliding around don't go adjusting the front. Start with adjusting the back end to stabilize it first. You can then go up or down in unison to stiffen or soften the car.



Tires and Temperature

Getting the correct temperature/pressure combination is like fitting together a big puzzle. Stiffer spring = more temperature and stiffer roll bars = higher temperature and on and on. It all fits together and the tires are the only thing we have direct control of. It's often the most overlooked part of tuning yet it is the most important.

I'll use the recommendations that I have gathered from Pirelli for temperature as some manufacturers differ +/- 10° F. The optimal grip for a tire will differ by what compound you put onto the vehicle. The softer the tire the lower the temperature needed for optimal grip.

PSI needs to be 32-35 degrees when hot. I generally settle with 33.

Temperature range can be from 180° to 210° F. A softer tire will lose grip more rapidly once it gets past 210° than a harder compound.

How does tire temperature relate to pressures?

Higher pressure = Lower temperature
Lower pressure = Higher temperature


This works in small amounts. On FWD cars in the game you can have a really high PSI in the rear and it will slide all over the place.

Adjustments Decrease Understeer Decrease Oversteer
Front Tire Pressure Higher Lower
Rear Tire Pressure Lower Higher


Some of the below quotes do not apply to FM5 with the high camber ratings.

Quote:
Uniform rules no matter what

Give the tires 3 laps to warm up before looking at telemetry.

You should never have more than 20° between the inner portion of the tire and the outer with the inside always being hotter.

You should never have more than 25° between the front and rear of the car

Alignment:

Quote:
Keep in mind you want no more than 20° difference between the inside and outside of the tire with the inner 1/3 always being hotter (10°-15° are good numbers). Make sure you look when actual load is on the tires going through a corner and the tires have had proper time to heat up (3 laps minimum). Sometimes on a track with turns mainly loading one side of the car the tires will heat up uneven. This is normal.


Camber
You always want negative camber

Negative = More inside
Positive = More outside

There is a sweet spot in this setting that usually doesn't change unless you move the Caster around too much once everything is set. You also always want more camber in the front than the rear. Rear camber isn't as necessary as those tires don't turn and I want them with a touch of negative camber when throttle is applied on exit.

Toe
Front toe favors a positive number (more responsive and better turn in) between .1° and .5°. Anything above .3° will cause excessive drag in the straights and gets really bad above 160mph.
Rear toe favors a negative number and becomes more responsive through turns at 1°. However anything over 2° and the back end loses a lot of stability in acceleration and braking. On bumpy tracks any amount of rear toe will cause the car to lose stability and you will have to make corrections even in a straight line costing you time.

EDIT: To clarify you shouldn't use more than .3 degrees in either direction unless the circumstance is extreme.

Caster
Allows the tires to roll with the chassis giving a larger contact patch through a turn. It also helps to balance the temperature of the tires on tracks with predominant left/right turns.

A larger number here will also help absorb bumps on the track while decreasing stability as too much caster causes the tires to wander a bit.

I personally like a really high Caster (5.5-7.0) in the lower classes but on tracks with longer sweeping turns less caster is better.. Most cars aren't sensitive to caster changes.

Adjustments Decrease Understeer Decrease Oversteer
Front Wheel Camber More Negative More Positive
Rear Wheel Camber More Positive More Negative
Front Wheel Caster More Positive More Negative

Anti Roll Bars

Anti roll bars control how much side to side roll a car has. In theory you would want to minimize body roll as much as possible. This is especially true in the higher classes but on occasion in FM3 some body roll helped things. I guess we will see in FM4. The end of this one is long winded but helps to understand it all.

Rear ARB soften = decrease oversteer or increase understeer
Rear ARB stiffen = decrease understeer or increase oversteer


Understanding what the ARB's do

"Limiting the lean of the body is good because it means that when you take a quick set into a turn, that the body isn't still moving sideways after the tires are at their limits. Otherwise you turn in quickly, the tires grip, then the body finally finishes leaning, when it stops, the tires lose grip."

"It limits camber changes. The camber directly impacts the angle at which the tire cross section meets the road and thus controls lateral grip. As the suspension compresses the camber angle generally changes relative to the chassis. With a normal McPherson strut that hasn't been lowered, the camber goes from positive to more negative as the lower A arm swings out straight, and then back to positive as it swings up. That swing up into positive camber is BAD. At that point the chassis is already leaned over so the tire may be starting to roll onto its sidewall. Changing the camber even more positive is just nasty. A big sway bar will prevent the body roll in the first place, and prevent the suspension compression on the outside which causes the positive camber change relative to the chassis."

"Here's where it gets really tricky: If decreasing the size of the rear bar doesn't help enough, the next thing you do is increase the size of the front bar. When the outside front compresses in a corner, it causes the inside front to compress and may actually lift that tire completely off the ground. The car is now sitting on 3 tires and guess where the weight that was on the inside front goes? Outside front? Some of it. The rest goes to the inside rear where we need more grip. The total weight of the car hasn't changed. It's just been redistributed, and a sway bar at one end, actually transferred weight to the other end of the car. Increasing the front bar then translates into more motive grip at the rear, and thus more acceleration"

Springs & Ride Height

From speaking with Dan the spring tuning and adjustments have changed drastically from FM3 to FM4. Every car is now different based upon what it is in reality as opposed to just one generic suspension being stuck under every vehicle like Forza titles in the past. (his direct words were not all suspensions are the same and the same springs weights don't do the same thing on every single car)

Any change in the spring rate will change the ride height due to the rate of spring deflection. They also change the compression(bump) and deflection(rebound) ratings of the shocks.

I like using my springs to control the suspension travel and balance the weight of the vehicle. Aero also affects the weight on the car and needs to be figured in. Some tracks require a softer spring while others require stiffer. I have went away from using the below formula but will leave it here as a baseline since some like it. I just reduce the stock spring setting by about a 1/4 on front and rear for my base tune.



Ride Height
Keep this as low as possible without the car bottoming out



Damping (shocks)

The extension when the tire is unloaded (force back out) = REBOUND
The compression of a shock (making it smaller) = BUMP

Braking
Under braking the front axle will compress while the rear will rebound. As the weight shifts the front axle will have a higher velocity than the rear which is good because the front should settle before the rear. If the front does settle too quickly the tires in the front will lock a little premature and the same for the rear. Brake bias only masks the problem and moves it to a different portion of the track.

Acceleration
Under acceleration the rear axle will compress while the front will rebound (think of a see-saw). On a RWD for example if the rear squats before the torque reaches peak it reduces the time the driver has to feather the throttle as the tires begin to break loose. Try to balance the compression against the required grip of the torque. FRONT REBOUND SHOULD BE FASTER THAN REAR COMPRESSION.

FWD is different in a sense. For acceleration increasing the front rebound will give more grip initially while increasing rear rebound increases a sustained level of grip.





Downforce and Braking

Downforce
More at rear = more understeer and a stable back end
More at front = more oversteer and increased turn in.

More downforce = less speed in straights, more speed through cornering.

Don't forget that any downforce adjustment = a spring adjustment to compensate for the added weight. Especially at higher speeds.

Braking

Braking pressure is a preference of the driver in my experience.
Your brake bias controls understeer and oversteer while braking.

More front bias = more understeer and can bind the front tires up to where you can't trail brake if you prefer to.
More rear bias = more oversteer and can cause the rear tires to lock up faster than the front which is really bad. Will cause the car to spin. This can also be a preference as some like to go early in fast out and some find it easier to brake later and trail brake through the corner. Those two can create a full scale argument.

Easier explanation on braking can be found HERE courtesy of go awayOTw. Have a look. http://forums.forzamotorsport.n...PLAINED.aspx#post_126446



Differential Settings

Differential settings increase the amount of lock your inside wheel has while turning. At 100% both the tires turn at the same speed which on a rear differential creates oversteer (on FWD it eliminates torque steer). A higher differential will allow you to use the throttle to help turn around a corner but can cause mid-exit oversteer.

On deceleration when you lift off of the throttle one tire locks faster than the other. This can cause the back end to want to kick out over the locked tire in extreme settings (under 15%). A lower setting does help things and the further apart the accel and decel are on the same differential the more unstable the car seems to get in my experience.

There isn't a ton I can find on differential settings so sorry for being so brief here and it is pretty simple. A higher number creates oversteer and a lower number prevents it.

Edited by user Wednesday, June 11, 2014 3:59:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: additions

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#2 Posted : Saturday, January 18, 2014 8:39:19 AM(UTC)
Cause and effect from ECT Loco UBOG

EFFECT ON

VEHICLE – POSSIBLE CAUSES

Straight Line Instability

* Too much rear wheel toe-out.
* Not enough rear downforce.
* Too much front downforce.
* Not enough rear toe-in (under hard acceleration) –presumably for RWD.
* Too much front toe (either in or out) – car darts over bumps.
* Front ARB is way too stiff – car darts over bumps.


Instability Under Brakes

* Front end darts or wanders – too much front brake bias.
* Car wants to spin – too much rear brake bias.


Response

* Car feels heavy and unresponsive.
o Too much downforce.
* Car feels sloppy and is slow to take a set in corners.
o Too little shock.
o Too much body roll (not enough spring and/or ARB).
* Car responds too quickly, is twitchy, and slides easily.
o Too little downforce.
o Too much shock, too much spring, and/or too much ARB.
o Too much tire pressure.


Understeer

* Corner entry understeer – car won’t turn in at all.
o Front
tires not wide enough.
o Too much front roll stiffness – ARBs and/or springs.
o Not enough front bump – shocks.
o Not enough front downforce.
o Too much dynamic camber on front wheels (not enough static negative camber).
* Corner entry understeer – car turns in initially then starts to push.
o Too much front toe-in.
o Rebound too stiff – shocks (not enough droop travel).
o Not enough front downforce.
o Bump not stiff enough – shocks.
* Corner entry understeer – car turns in and then darts.
o Insufficient front suspension travel in either or both directions – shocks.


Oversteer

* Corner exit oversteer – gets progressively worse from the time throttle is applied.
o Too much rear roll stiffness.
o Too much rear camber.
o Too little rear downforce.
o Too little rear toe-in.
o Not enough rear spring, shock, or ARB – allows car to roll over on outside rear wheel.
* Corner exit oversteer (sudden) - car takes its set then breaks loose.
o Not enough rear suspension travel (too much shock in either bump, rebound, or both).


CAUSES – EFFECT ON VEHICLE

Springs

* Too much spring – overall
o Harsh and choppy ride, lack of tire compliance.
o Can’t put power down on corner exit - excessive wheelspin.
o Car slides too much.
* Too much spring – front
o Initial understeer.
o Front end breaks loose in corners.
o Front end breaks loose over bumps.
* Too much spring – rear
o Oversteer when power is applied on corner exit.
o Excessive wheelspin.
* Too little spring – overall
o Car bottoms out.
o Car feels like it’s floating.
o Sloppy response.
o Car is slow to take its set.
* Too little spring – front
o Front end hits ground under brakes.
o Too much body roll on corner entry.
o Initial understeer – car won’t point in.
* Too little spring – rear
o Too much squat under acceleration, and the resultant increase in negative camber.
o Car falls over on outside rear wheel causing power-on oversteer.


Anti-Roll Bars

* Too much ARB – overall
o Very sudden turning response and little feel.
o Car slides or skates instead of taking its set.
o May dart over one wheel bumps or diagonal bumps.
* Too much ARB – front
o Corner entry understeer that gets progressively worse.
o Steady state understeer in the middle of sweeping turns.
* Too much ARB – rear
o Corner exit oversteer when throttle is applied.
o Excessive sliding coming out of corners.
* Too little ARB – overall
o Car is sloppy and lacks response.
o Car is slow to transition, especially in chicanes and esses.
o Car rolls too much resulting in too much dynamic, positive camber and the resultant loss of cornering power due to decrease in tire traction.
* Too little ARB – front
o Car rolls over onto outside tire on corner entry then ‘washes out’ (understeers).
o Car lacks steering response and is slow to change direction.
* Too little ARB – rear
o Back end doesn’t want to rotate on corner exit under power (difficult to throttle steer).


Shock Absorbers

* Too much shock – overall
o Very sudden car with harsh ride, sliding, and wheel patter.
o Car crashes over road surface irregularities.
* Too much rebound adjustment
o Wheels do not return to road surface quickly after displacement.
o Inside wheel pulls off the road surface in a corner.
o Lack of tire compliance over bumps and surface undulations.
o Car may be jacked down in long corners.
* Too much bump adjustment
o Initial reaction to bumps and curbs is harsh.
o Initial chassis roll slow to develop.
o Car slides rather than sticks.
o Driven wheels hop when the power is put down.
* Too little shock – overall
o Car floats a lot in ride and oscillates after bumps (underdamped).
o Slow and sloppy response.
o Chassis rolls too quickly.
* Too little rebound adjustment
o Oscillates after bumps.
o Doesn’t put the power down well.
* Too little bump adjustment
o Initial bump reaction soft.
o Car dives and squats a lot under brakes and under power.
o Car rolls quickly and falls over outside tires – front tire on corner entry and rear tire on exit.


Wheel Alignment

* Front toe-in – too much
o Car darts over bumps, under the brakes, and during corner entry.
o Car won’t point into corners.
* Front toe-out – too much
o Car wanders under the brakes.
o Straight line instability especially over one wheel and diagonal bumps.
o Car may point into corners then refuse to take a set
o Understeer as a result of tire scrub in long corners.
* Rear toe-in – too much
o Rear feels light and unstable on corner entry.
o Car slides a bit in corners rather than rolling freely.
* Rear toe-in – too little
o Power on oversteer during corner exit.
* Rear toe-out – any
o Power oversteer during corner exit.
o Straight line instability.
* Front wheel caster – too much
o Excessive physical steering effort (probably non-applicable with the XBOX controller)
* Front wheel caster – too little
o Too little steering feel and feedback (also probably non-applicable with the XBOX controller)
* Camber – too much negative
o Inside of tire will be hotter than the rest and wear faster.
o Front tires – reduced braking capacity (dive)
o Rear tires – reduced acceleration capacity (squat)
* Camber – too much positive
o Outside of tire will be hotter than the rest and wear faster.
o Rear tires – corner exit oversteer and reduced tire traction.
o Rear tires - If extreme may cause corner entrance instability.
o Front tires – too much body roll and understeer after car turns in.


Tires

* Too much tire pressure
o Harsh ride.
o Excessive wheel patter, sliding and wheelspin.
o High temperature at center of tire.
* Too little tire pressure
o Soft and mushy response.
o High tire temperatures at inner and outer edges.
o Reduced contact patch

Edited by user Saturday, January 18, 2014 8:44:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#3 Posted : Saturday, January 18, 2014 8:39:28 AM(UTC)
..
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#4 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2014 10:58:50 AM(UTC)
Nice worm that's a great read!
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#5 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2014 11:58:58 AM(UTC)
Wow mate. That is dense, worth a read though especially coming from the best. Thank you for the guide!

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#6 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2014 12:17:23 PM(UTC)
Considering that one of my recent tunes did not do so well in one of the comps. I will be reading this document over carefully to try and apply some feedback on that tune to this information to see what can be done.

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#7 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2014 12:24:45 PM(UTC)
Thanks for re-posting this Worm. Always a great read while working on the old racing tunes. It is also the go to thread when discussing tuning with new racers.

Cheers, and thanks again. :D
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#8 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2014 1:48:43 PM(UTC)
Is this guide for forza 5 in specific terms or is this just the same reprinted general guide line for supposed forza physics? Thank you.
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#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:48:01 PM(UTC)
Thanks Worm for an incredible very indepth explanation of the tuning process. You will make a tuner out of me yet.
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#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2014 8:24:03 PM(UTC)
Good guide but the Catheram is very hard to tune in A class any tips to start ?
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#11 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2014 7:31:04 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: phoxxy10 Go to Quoted Post
Is this guide for forza 5 in specific terms or is this just the same reprinted general guide line for supposed forza physics? Thank you.


In my experience this is a great starting point for getting a tune started.

In addition, the "effect on" section is great for diagnosing handling issues.

These principles have been working in FM5. Remember this is a guide, it is not going to make you an epic tuner with your first car. But overtime it will help you improve.
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#12 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2014 2:28:34 PM(UTC)
Awesome sauce! Thanks a bunch. :-)
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#13 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2014 2:51:42 PM(UTC)
So far on FM5 the only setting I've found really usefull to stop a car loosing cornering grip is lowering the ARB's with stock settings on everything else.

That dreadful merc amg c63? No problem now with arb's lowered to 13.00 odd
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#14 Posted : Thursday, January 23, 2014 12:09:19 PM(UTC)
Thanks for the post.
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#15 Posted : Thursday, January 23, 2014 2:26:08 PM(UTC)
My soft tires are always 230 degrees and can't figure out how to get it down to 180-210.... you sure those numbers are right?
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#16 Posted : Thursday, January 23, 2014 3:06:03 PM(UTC)
this was very helpful. keep up the awesome work
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#17 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 8:24:23 AM(UTC)
I'm completlely new to forza 5 and having a hard time understanding tuning and I have found this very helpful, thank you =) I'm just wondering what is the best order in which to do all this? Should we start with tires and go in order of this guide? Should we start with springs?
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#18 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 9:17:23 AM(UTC)
Aim for 220-230 in this game on tire temp. Will amend the guide, thanks for pointing it out. I believe pressure is more important. Generally want 33 when hot.
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#19 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 11:32:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TG Wormburner Go to Quoted Post
Aim for 220-230 in this game on tire temp. Will amend the guide, thanks for pointing it out. I believe pressure is more important. Generally want 33 when hot.


I was trying everything last night and honestly its extremely difficult to get your tires not to be 230. In every case after a few laps they would always end up that temp, even on extreme tunes like jelly cars etc...

I have spent a long time tuning in Forza 5 and wanted to throw in my feedback in what I have learned. I am confident I can produce a good car, not the best. But solid enough to get the most out of the car. I only tune A class cars and enjoy trying to get older cars to compete against Ferraris. I have been told that unlike previous Forza games the stock car does matter. The F50 is simply a faster car than a Lotus Elan, no matter how good you are at tuning some cars simply can not score fastest times. I enjoy taking underdog cars to achieving the highest results possible.

If your interested in checking out some of my tunes I have a popular Lotus Elan AWD and a nice Nissan Fairlady Z RWD. I try and keep my older tunes up to date with new things that I learn as I get better.

To help others here is how I go about tuning.

EDIT: THIS POST HAS BEEN EDITED BASED ON FEEDBACK TO AVOID CONFUSION!

UPGRADING

  • CAR - Find the car you want to tune, the only prerequisite is that it must be lower than S701, buy it and make sure your in it.

  • ENGINE - Convert to RWD (AWD tuning can be slightly different and to avoid confusion this tutorial is for RWD). Look for an engine that will allow you to achieve A700, if its an older car often your stock engine won't allow you to reach A700. In terms of aspiration I typically use Turbo's for high speed builds, I avoid others as I haven't experimented with them yet. Another note is when choosing an engine I look for one that achieve a 50/50 weight ratio. Just to help balance the car out a little more. This can sometimes impact my engine decision. Remember the engines often have different gear ratios, if your using a custom Gear Box this won't be an issue. When choosing an engine for a RWD car I often look for low torque and high RPM, I personally find to much torque will simply spin up your rear tires more easily. Its not the end of the world, but sometimes lower torque and higher RPM can help with smoother acceleration. I recommend experimenting yourself.

  • TIRES - You want the softest circuit racing tire, make sure not to accidentally get drag tires. You want to widen the tires as much as you need, its best to get the highest and only work backwards if you really feel like you want to drop grip and get extra horse power. I don't know much about the effects of Rim Size, but I believe Forza 5 has tire roll. With this in mind I simply aim for a sidewall that looks about the right size based on what you would expect in racing series. Its difficult to judge, but I believe a lower pressure high side wall tire will roll more. The same goes for a thin side wall wide tire which won't roll at all. As a note, older smaller cars can often have thin limits on tire width. In some cases these cars perform better as AWD. If you haven't got the tire width to properly put the power down your in a losing battle from the start. Remember your build an A class car, there are limitations to older or none racing built cars. I recommend trying it and see, if it doesn't work switch to AWD.

  • PLATFORM - You want to upgrade all your springs, roll bars, clutch (if you use automatic) etc... The only two to be cautious of are Gear Box and Weight Reduction. If your car already has a high Lateral G you can get away without losing to much weight. If your car already has a good gearbox you can save a few points by getting the second best without changing ratios. I personally avoid changing gear ratios if they are not causing me problems. I only reduce the weight in a car if it feels heavy or has bad handling. Often a car that's to light and has to much power can be difficult to accelerate. You then need to compensate with down force. This adds to your cars points when it could be spent on more power.

  • AERO - If your using an old car I can almost guarantee your going to need a rear spoiler and most likely a front splitter also. Older cars can be difficult to achieve high laternal G and in some cases limitations shoe horn cars into more focused top speed builds. Remember not to fall into the trap of adding AERO to modern super cars. In some cases they really don't need it for A class. Your modern Ferrari, Zonda, Lambo etc... really don't need a front splitter and often not even a rear spoiler. Remember this very much depends on the track. Aero does help with braking and acceleration grip, but your car can very easily feel to heavy and sluggish when you simply might not need it with better mechanical grip setup. Good examples of not needing Aero are the Ford GT and F50.

  • ENGINE UPGRADES - This is pretty simple, always get Camshaft to increase RPM. I have been told not to do this but I personally have always found it to be a massive benefit for the cost, The next is Exhaust and Air Filter in that priority order. If you have Turbo's and want a high speed build that should be high on your list also. I recommend asking for more opinions from this point onwards. But it isn't the end of the world if its not 100% optimal.

  • EXTRAS - Everything else is gravy, this is typically more engine upgrades, more aero, less weight etc.... Remember, don't expect this to be your final setup. Its simply a first pass, in some cases you might have not put AERO on to see how far you can get with mechanical grip. Based on the track you might swiftly realise you need it. Its all about balancing what you hope to achieve from the car and your personal tastes of cornering and high speed. Remember when upgrading your vehicle keep an eye on that weight % as it tells you front to rear balance. Make sure you influence your choices to try and achieve a 50/50 result, but only if possible. This is influenced by engine choice and weight reduction.

    TUNING

  • TRACK - I tune all my cars on Indianapolis Full, the reason for this is the majority of the track is flat which helps set up tire cambers at low speed, but it also has a sweeping highly cambered corner at the end to test high speed cornering. I find the straight to be average, so if your looking for a car setup you can use in lobby without switching builds aim to top end on the straight. The track is also pretty quick to get around which gives you a better indication of if you have made improvements.

  • BASE WORK - Set tyre pressures to 28, drop your car height as low as it can go. Then drive around for three laps with your debug window displaying camber and temperatures. You need to pay attention at this point and keep your eye on your outside front and rear tires when cornering, make a mental note of there peak positive or negative camber as you will be changing this shortly.

    Once your tires are warm check your tire pressures and make the adjustment you need to hit 33 PSI. Your pressures will not change instantly, so after your adjustment give it half a lap to see the effects of your change. This is a good base to start working. I recommend continuing through your tuning until you feel you can't get any better. Then adjust your tire pressure to see the influence. Based on that make a choice of what pressure you want. Some people prefer 32 others prefer 35.

    Continue to drive around, when on the flat areas of the track look at your rear outside wheel camber when cornering, then compensate. You should be looking to peak at 0.0 degrees camber when accelerating out of corners. This can be tricky to get right as the numbers bounce around a lot. The information tells you that the contact patch of your tire is firmly planted to the ground. This helps massively with rear wheel traction when accelerating out of corners. Do the same for your front wheels then expect to add 0.5+ degrees extra, the best corner to test front wheel camber is the last corner of Indianapolis as that's where your camber is most effective. Remember this is personal choice, get your car to a solid place and go back to this value and experiment. Find out what works for the car and track.

  • MISC - At this point your car should feel much better than it did to begin with and this alone can make a car a few seconds a lap faster. At this point you could be experiencing two common issues. When going around the final corner your car is bottoming out, refer to Worms recommendations to make sure this doesn't happen. Also be careful you don't have a higher front over rear. I don't think I have ever seen a race car like this so probably a good recommendation. Most cars will have higher rear to front. The other problem is your differential. Its very rare to find a car that doesn't have RWD traction issues because of the default 75% differential (once its upgraded). This is almost guaranteed to happen in older cars. If I'm driving an older car or none super car I normally anticipate this issue and drop it down to 27%. I only increase it if I'm not having traction issues. This is extremely important as often people confuse differential issues with spring and damper settings.

  • SPRINGS, ROLLBARS, AERO, DAMPERS - I recommend referring to Worm's tutorial for this as its a great break down, a lot of the choices you make will be personal. I like cars with a little bit of overstreer to help with cornering.

Edited by user Saturday, January 25, 2014 2:35:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#20 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 2:02:51 PM(UTC)
I don't really ever upgrade or tune in that manner. I know you took a lot of time to do it but it's just not right in a lot of cases. I do appreciate the effort and I'm sure a lot of others do as well.

  • You need to use cams last
  • Superchargers are generally superior
  • Most of the engine swaps are good
  • Larger front tires in a RWD car will NEVER make you understeer. You will always get more turn in and rotation.
  • Upgrading rim size is beneficial in quite a few cars
  • You need aero in most cases
  • Never use a clutch
  • Never use a flywheel
  • Never use a flywheel
  • Never use a flywheel
  • Never use a flywheel
  • YOUR TUNES SHOULD BE TRACK SPECIFIC
  • A low ride height isn't always best, some require even ride height, some max, some max front/min rear
  • 32 PSI is the minimum. Should be 33-35 IMO
  • Camber should be high.......REAAAAALLY HIGH. Above 2.0, sometimes double that.

Edited by user Friday, January 24, 2014 2:06:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#21 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 2:50:55 PM(UTC)
Thanks for the feedback Worm. I'm still learning each day, I will try the stuff you mentioned and see if it helps. Also did you recommend not upgrading clutch because you use manual?

In reference to the engine if you look at the mapping without a fully custom gearbox it helps give you an idea why I said some are for drag, circuit etc...

As for the understeer from front tires, I'm not sure where I picked that up. I thought it was a tooltip but after looking its not there. Was that ever an issue in Forza 3 or 4? Anyway, good to know my builds can benefit from wider tires.

Edited by user Friday, January 24, 2014 3:01:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#22 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 4:20:47 PM(UTC)
Has anyone done a beginner guide to tuning? This guide has blown my fragile little mind haha. I'm sure it makes more sense to those with a bit of tuning experience but for me just trying to figure out a starting point for tuning my first car I'm just totally confused. IchII3D your tips seemed good even though some mistakes. I might start out with some of your recommendations for tuning. I've put off trying to tune a car cause its all just a bit overwhelming.
Rank: Driver's License
#23 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 4:48:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BEACHEDAS25 Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone done a beginner guide to tuning? This guide has blown my fragile little mind haha. I'm sure it makes more sense to those with a bit of tuning experience but for me just trying to figure out a starting point for tuning my first car I'm just totally confused. IchII3D your tips seemed good even though some mistakes. I might start out with some of your recommendations for tuning. I've put off trying to tune a car cause its all just a bit overwhelming.


It could help you get started but Worm had a lot of good points about potential issues. His break down of over and understeer is very useful. It will take you a while to get used to knowing what to look for. Personally I race and tune using the cockpit view as it gives you a much better feel of what the car is actually doing.

Rank: On the Podium
 7 users liked this post.
#24 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 6:00:04 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BEACHEDAS25 Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone done a beginner guide to tuning? This guide has blown my fragile little mind haha. I'm sure it makes more sense to those with a bit of tuning experience but for me just trying to figure out a starting point for tuning my first car I'm just totally confused. IchII3D your tips seemed good even though some mistakes. I might start out with some of your recommendations for tuning. I've put off trying to tune a car cause its all just a bit overwhelming.


Set everything to even. Roll bars front and back even, springs the same, etc

If it understeers the front is too stiff
If it oversteers the back is too stiff
If it skids and slides it is too stiff overall
If it feels like a boat your rebound is too low


Take that, play, play, and play some more. Learn one area of the car at a time when you are playing. When you have a grasp of roll bars move to springs and learn it. Just keep playing with stuff.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#25 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2014 7:58:28 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TG Wormburner Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BEACHEDAS25 Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone done a beginner guide to tuning? This guide has blown my fragile little mind haha. I'm sure it makes more sense to those with a bit of tuning experience but for me just trying to figure out a starting point for tuning my first car I'm just totally confused. IchII3D your tips seemed good even though some mistakes. I might start out with some of your recommendations for tuning. I've put off trying to tune a car cause its all just a bit overwhelming.


Set everything to even. Roll bars front and back even, springs the same, etc

If it understeers the front is too stiff
If it oversteers the back is too stiff
If it skids and slides it is too stiff overall
If it feels like a boat your rebound is too low


Take that, play, play, and play some more. Learn one area of the car at a time when you are playing. When you have a grasp of roll bars move to springs and learn it. Just keep playing with stuff.



Prepare yourself for a 2 hour test drive lol
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