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Rank: Driver's Permit
#26 Posted : Wednesday, July 30, 2014 5:18:27 PM(UTC)
The idea of playing a game, in a way it wasn't intended to- particularly to p*ss someone else off- has been around forever. I'd argue it's human nature. The only issue I see here is Forza's inability to step up and combat the griefers. GTAV uses "dunce" lobbies for example, forcing online griefers to play in a separate lobby with each other. Forza should first distribute warnings for aggressive driving, and then temporarily exile those players to "idiot" lobbies if they persist.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 30, 2014 7:31:03 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Legend
#27 Posted : Wednesday, July 30, 2014 5:37:47 PM(UTC)
To put those offenders in a similar group -

Those you spot glitching or wrecking people and ruining normal game play, should be REPORTED by going into VIEW GAMER CARD, then Report or block, followed by Report, then select Unsporting behavior. There is then a box to fill in "CRASHER" - disruptive in races, causes wrecks, etc. Followed by Report to Xbox.

If you have the accurate gamertag, in the Xbox One Dashboard, go to Friends, in the left column use either "Recent Players" or "Find someone" and put the tag in there. The same reporting system as above is in effect, and you can file the report there.

This sends a report directly to the Xbox LIVE Policy Enforcement Team which will investigate, maybe even visit and observe the offender during gaming sessions, and then ban that person from not just a single game but Xbox LIVE itself.
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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#28 Posted : Wednesday, July 30, 2014 5:49:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CloudTheProphet Go to Quoted Post
The thing that I believe contributes to most peoples play style online is that most American players only exposure to real racing is Nascar. A lot of people don't even realize that most of the behavior that goes on in MP races would result in penalties in Grand Prix, Indy, or sports car racing. This is not the only contributer to the problem but this explains the rubbing is racing mentally of a lot of people.

guess what while I don't have Forza 5, but in Forza 4 and Forza 3 I have been wrecked by just as any people from around the world as people in the USA
not only that but as a American I enjoy all sorts of racing not just NASCAR
so sorry its not just an American rubbing is racing thing
I 'm not fast
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#29 Posted : Wednesday, July 30, 2014 7:51:24 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CPU M Rossi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CloudTheProphet Go to Quoted Post
The thing that I believe contributes to most peoples play style online is that most American players only exposure to real racing is Nascar. A lot of people don't even realize that most of the behavior that goes on in MP races would result in penalties in Grand Prix, Indy, or sports car racing. This is not the only contributer to the problem but this explains the rubbing is racing mentally of a lot of people.

guess what while I don't have Forza 5, but in Forza 4 and Forza 3 I have been wrecked by just as any people from around the world as people in the USA
not only that but as a American I enjoy all sorts of racing not just NASCAR
so sorry its not just an American rubbing is racing thing


Indeed. Ever seen Euro Touring Car or Aussie V8? They drive like their opponent's car owes them money.

"Precision, finesse, and handling will ALWAYS be defeated by shouting, smoking, and POWER."

-Jeremy Clarkson, explaining how an AMG Merc beat a Maserati on TG track.

I ONLY TUNE GUITARS
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#30 Posted : Wednesday, July 30, 2014 9:56:29 PM(UTC)



...It's true though - many gamers have little to no exposure to authentic real-world international motorsport, and to them, every "racing game" is just another Mario Kart with different graphics & physics.


_

Edited by user Wednesday, July 30, 2014 10:02:38 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#31 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:21:01 AM(UTC)
We all get into wrecks when I do I let the person recover and get their place back. But one time I did have to laugh when another player tried to ram my car off the road by hitting his rear quarter off my front quarter then screamed blue murder at me when he went flying off the track.
Rank: Racing Permit
#32 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:52:39 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Snowowl Go to Quoted Post
To put those offenders in a similar group -

Those you spot glitching or wrecking people and ruining normal game play, should be REPORTED by going into VIEW GAMER CARD, then Report or block, followed by Report, then select Unsporting behavior. There is then a box to fill in "CRASHER" - disruptive in races, causes wrecks, etc. Followed by Report to Xbox.

If you have the accurate gamertag, in the Xbox One Dashboard, go to Friends, in the left column use either "Recent Players" or "Find someone" and put the tag in there. The same reporting system as above is in effect, and you can file the report there.

This sends a report directly to the Xbox LIVE Policy Enforcement Team which will investigate, maybe even visit and observe the offender during gaming sessions, and then ban that person from not just a single game but Xbox LIVE itself.

Hi Snowowl,
Being honest I don't think anything can be done to seriously tackle this issue. Its not just Forza, its every racer under the sun.
Not defending anyone who deliberately goes out to ruin other peoples experience, but sometimes internet lag can cause issues within a game.
The report system can be an issue within itself.
What happens Snowowl if I get all my friends to report your gamertag, even though you're trying to race as perfectly as possible?
If Microsoft started banning everyone who is ramming in car racing games then all I can say is that these rammers must be employees of Sony and Nintendo.

Developers have tried everything to tackle the issue hence the inclusion of 'collisions off' but the golden rule is .....play with your friends.
Everyone in this thread is complaining about the unclean racers. There is 15 or 16 of us here in this thread. Lets all befriend each other and have good clean races.
Strange, I posted that exact same comment in this thread 24 hours ago but I have not received any friend requests from any of you, which makes me wonder..... do people want to find clean racers or do they just like complaining for the sake of complaining ha ha :)

Love them or hate them, the rammers are here to stay. The only way to beat them is by befriending clean racers and leaving the rammers on their own to fight it out.
As I said in my previous post, some people find the 'clean racing' no fun, they like to bash and crash, that is as much fun to them as the clean racing is to us.
From what I've seen and witnessed over the years it seems the ramming and bashing is in the majority and clean racers are in the minority. Maybe its us clean racers who have it wrong lol :)
Maybe its us who don't know how to play the game.

My gamertag: TigerFury777
Please feel free to add me :)


July 29th 2014 - International Tiger Day
Tigerday.org/
Rank: R-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 11/28/2042 2:06:57 PM(UTC)
#33 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 9:52:30 AM(UTC)
To say that those who opposed the no collision lobbies were wrong is a fallacy, and quite arrogant. While people enjoy it and rightfully so, it still hasn't solved the issues of wreckers. I'm pretty sure most can tell when someone is new and finding there way, as opposed to a "idiot" "troll" "griefer" etc. I do not agree nor will I ever that those who cause the problem shall go unpunished. I pay for the xbox live service. I also paid for a console and a copy of the game. I paid for the right to enjoy my experience online and concede there will be negative moments. But to obstruct and change the rules to accommodate those whom can't respect or behave accordingly in a lobby is absurd. This is the same poor logic used when deciding to remove gifting paints, vinyls, and tunes. As well as removing other features that were exploited by the minority.

This a slippery slope and a line needs to be drawn quickly. One that states that the few who can't behave and show general respect to other paying customers will be dealt with swiftly and harshly. Whether it be a fine or a lengthy ban.

Edited by user Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:06:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified



Just stop. Just sayin.
Rank: On the Podium
#34 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:12:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ECT Loco UBoG Go to Quoted Post
This a slippery slope and a line needs to be drawn quickly. One that states that the few who can't behave and show general respect to other paying customers will be dealt with swiftly and harshly. Whether it be a fine or a lengthy ban.


Sounds like an attempt at arranging conformity to me.

I say, if you can't figure out how to find likeminded individuals in the virtual world to race in your private gaming Eutopia, you might as well keep out of public lobbies. The day videogame developers and console big wigs start banning or attempt to fine people who, dare I say, find a different pleasure in gaming than you or just aren't skilled enough to meet your expectations is the day the industry goes down ... quickly.

I appreciate a clean lobby as much as the next racer, but to expect over 2 million Forza gamers to play by a particular unwritten standard is foolish and borderline narcissistic. Videogames, folks. Videogames.

Edited by user Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:13:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#35 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:58:02 AM(UTC)
No it is the idiots fault.They come on with every intention of causing as much grief as possible and the more it gets to people the more they get out of it.

The others who are there to race fairly just have to ignore or can always quit and join a new lobby………..


But the biggest problem is how much it takes to boot them out.Take too many votes to see them gone.Best way to deal with them is to mess with them.Try keeping in their car so they ghost and can t wreck others in the game.Soon becomes boring.Also if you know they are being silly then I find I can avoid them most of the time.


Now rubbing is racing.Love taps.All part of the game.We all brake a bit later than maybe we should or earlier than expected at times or take a strange line through a corner and get hit but so long as not deliberate then ok.
Rank: On the Podium
#36 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 11:14:04 AM(UTC)
Thread cleaned.
Rank: Racing Permit
#37 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 11:22:50 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: The Shadow Edge Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ECT Loco UBoG Go to Quoted Post
This a slippery slope and a line needs to be drawn quickly. One that states that the few who can't behave and show general respect to other paying customers will be dealt with swiftly and harshly. Whether it be a fine or a lengthy ban.


Sounds like an attempt at arranging conformity to me.

I say, if you can't figure out how to find likeminded individuals in the virtual world to race in your private gaming Eutopia, you might as well keep out of public lobbies. The day videogame developers and console big wigs start banning or attempt to fine people who, dare I say, find a different pleasure in gaming than you or just aren't skilled enough to meet your expectations is the day the industry goes down ... quickly.

I appreciate a clean lobby as much as the next racer, but to expect over 2 million Forza gamers to play by a particular unwritten standard is foolish and borderline narcissistic. Videogames, folks. Videogames.


There is truth in your post. Everyone here on the forum claims to be a clean racer, it can't be that hard to find like minded racers.
What is it they say....."Everyone is a clean racer until the last corner on the last lap, whoops soory didn't mean to shunt ya there, I outbraked myself. :)

Edited by user Friday, August 1, 2014 7:41:30 AM(UTC)  | Reason: grammar

July 29th 2014 - International Tiger Day
Tigerday.org/
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#38 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:19:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TigerFury777 Go to Quoted Post

What happens Snowowl if I get all my friends to report your gamertag, even though you're trying to race as perfectly as possible?
If Microsoft started banning everyone who is ramming in car racing games then all I can say is that these rammers must be employees of Sony and Nintendo.


If that happened, then his (or her, but pretty sure SnowOwl is a he) rep might go down a little (depending on how many friends you have) and it would likely trigger a review of his activities by the policy enforcement team. When they found he was NOT behaving as reported they would either:

a) move along.
b) investigate the reporters, realize they all knew each other (all were 'friends' on XBL), and review the Xbox communications. If they found proof that you were colluding to smear SnowOwl, they would likely hand out short bans to you and your friends for abusing the system and harassing SnowOwl.

Bottom line is MS doesn't just ban people because x number of people report them. They investigate and then take the appropriate actions based on that investigation.

Edited by user Thursday, July 31, 2014 1:20:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#39 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 2:29:59 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Sorry Prolacticus but do you really think that those players using other cars as brakes are doing it because they don't know how to play the game?


Some of them? Yes.

When it happens to me, I message the person. Most of the time they apologize, and some of them do a decent job of hanging back and trying to drive more carefully. Obviously the success rates vary, but it takes the seige-mentality down a notch. The races improve. That's what we want, right?

If, after messaging, the person continues doing it, then, yeah, it's probably intentional. I save a lot of replays to try to understand. I'll watch these replays from the perspective of each player. It's astonishing how many "good" players do bad things (wall-riding, for example) while "bad" drivers turn out to be their own worst enemies (if you don't know to brake, you will hit the wall, and you will lose).

I'm not just coming out of nowhere with these ideas and suggestions. I learned in life that, when you want to change something, you do your part to help, and I don't think many people here would like things to get worse rather than better.

There's a lot that can be done to make F5 online better that doesn't involve having to go to private parties, points systems, etc. Yes, *all* of those things can help, and that's the point. If it's a possible, perfectly reasonable and doable goal, then *why not try*?

So, yeah. I think that some players using other players as brakes are doing it because they don't know any better, and I think educating them could help improve the situation.

Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
There is a difference between locking up the brakes, missing a brake point and deliberate crashing.


Explain that to the brand new player who doesn't understand the importance of braking - who doesn't understand what it means for brakes to lock - who doesn't understand what a brake point is.

If you talk to beginners in the lobby to try and help them get their assists sorted out, it's odd how many turn off the racing and braking lines (they don't understand the purpose - or "My friend told me to do it"). With so little experience, and without the help of the braking line (it provides some sense of depth perspective), they're always going to brake late, and if they're going full throttle, and if they're used to arcade racers... then another car probably looks like a perfectly reasonable way to slow oneself down.

Until you talk to these people, attributing intententions isn't reasonable. I'll be the first to say anecdotal evidence is weak, but it's better than nothing.

Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
If you really think the first two are the main explanations then maybe the manual needs to have a section on how to recognise trolls.


I don't know where you got the idea that I think "the first two are the main explanations," but I do think it might be helpful to add a section to a FAQ or tutorial on recognizing trolls and what to do. How much better would lobbies be if players knew how to kick? When I suggest we kick someone, the most common response, even from players in the hundreds, is: "Uh... how do you do that?"

Anyway, ask these troublemakers why they're doing it. I'm not talking about the obvious trolls who're out there with their color-coordinated vehicles of destruction, but the guy in the regular car who's slamming into people. I've heard "Because they did it to me" as a reason plenty of times. Recently, a nice guy I met a couple weeks ago showed up in a lobby and announced his intent to wreck everybody because *he'd* been getting wrecked all day. Anger begets anger, frustration builds, and the frustrated look for an outlet.

What if you could improve the situation? I'm not talking about fixing it. I'm talking about improving it. A little less anger, a little less frustration, and maybe the cycle of wrecking-because-I-was-wrecked won't be so common.

I put the effort in to try and find out *why* some racers do what they do. This thread is largely (at least I meant it to be) about the misattribution of malicious intent to bad racers.

I'm not saying trolls don't exist.

What I do see here is a lot of laziness and entitlement. People want what *they* want, they don't want to do the work, they criticize possible solutions, and go right back to complaining.

If I didn't know better, I'd think a lot of posters around here didn't actually want the game to get better.
Rank: Racing Permit
#40 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 2:49:39 PM(UTC)
Their reporting system isn't perfect I will admit. I once got banned for 3 days because of using inappropriate language through chat. Problem was that entire weekend I played CoD4 with my mic unplugged.....

That being said though these crashers need to be punished. Have to trust what is put in place by Xbox.
Rank: Racing Legend
#41 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 2:50:37 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TigerFury777 Go to Quoted Post

What happens Snowowl if I get all my friends to report your gamertag, even though you're trying to race as perfectly as possible?
If Microsoft started banning everyone who is ramming in car racing games then all I can say is that these rammers must be employees of Sony and Nintendo.


What happens? Probably nothing to me, and those filing false reports would be banned for falsifying the complaints. I haven't had the time in a couple months to race, and have not online preferring to race with friends, so they would have a difficult time proving I was a bad guy. Maybe a bad driver because I cannot properly use a controller and really need a wheel, thanks to breaking my left wrist twice years ago, and a botched surgery that didn't regain proper flexibility in my left thumb.

However, TigerFury777, you can check your PM's here, if you would.
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Rank: Racing Permit
#42 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 2:59:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ECT Loco UBoG Go to Quoted Post
To say that those who opposed the no collision lobbies were wrong is a fallacy, and quite arrogant.


Tell that to the people enjoying the no-collisions lobbies.

Opposing their creation because "*I* don't want them" or "*I* would never use them" or "*I* don't think it's racing" is arrogant, and that accounts for, albeit in a highly summarized fashion, many of the arguments.

Originally Posted by: ECT Loco UBoG Go to Quoted Post
While people enjoy it and rightfully so, it still hasn't solved the issues of wreckers.


Tell that to the people enjoying the no-collisions lobbies.

Those lobbies haven't solved the issue of wreckers elsewhere in the game, but they were never meant to. They were meant to give people a place to go where they could play the game together without having to worry about being launched three-hundred feet in the air by an SUV.

If I recall correctly, nobody claimed it was a solution to wreckers.

This falls under the all-or-nothing line of thinking that impedes progress. If you're looking for a magic pill that's going to rid us of wreckers, then you'll never be satisfied. Nothing's that simple. The best we can hope for is making incremental changes that improve the game bit by bit.

Improving the game is better than doing nothing, but trying to find a magic solution is *worse* than doing nothing. It's energy wasted that could be spent on realistic ways of reducing the problem.

Originally Posted by: ECT Loco UBoG Go to Quoted Post
I pay for the xbox live service. I also paid for a console and a copy of the game. I paid for the right to enjoy my experience online and concede there will be negative moments.


How far has that sense of entitlement gotten you?

Don't get me wrong. I agree. I paid, too, but setting realistic expectations and working cooperatively toward a solution is the only way to find any degree of success.

Originally Posted by: ECT Loco UBoG Go to Quoted Post
But to obstruct and change the rules to accommodate those whom can't respect or behave accordingly in a lobby is absurd.


Don't play in the no-collisions lobbies if you don't like that approach to helping to improve the online experience. I don't see, though, how it "accommodate[s] those whom can't respect or behave accordingly in a lobby..." If anything, it's accommodating the players who wanted safe lobbies to race in. Wreckers certainly aren't benefitting from it.

Originally Posted by: ECT Loco UBoG Go to Quoted Post
This is the same poor logic used when deciding to remove gifting paints, vinyls, and tunes. As well as removing other features that were exploited by the minority.


Isn't it the minority causing the problems? Maybe I'm just a walking four-leaf-clover, but I end up in lots of great lobbies. When there are wreckers, it's rare that there are more than one or two (three if it's a team).

Out of sixteen potential players, it would seem the minority is very much the problem. It isn't the number of people who are causing the problems; it's the extent of the damage one or two people can do.

If only there were a nice built-in tutorial, or truly helpful help that taught people how to vote to kick.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#43 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:01:06 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: The Shadow Edge Go to Quoted Post

I appreciate a clean lobby as much as the next racer, but to expect over 2 million Forza gamers to play by a particular unwritten standard is foolish and borderline narcissistic. Videogames, folks. Videogames.


This ^^^

Rank: Driver's Permit
#44 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:07:54 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: B Wald Big Mek Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CPU M Rossi Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CloudTheProphet Go to Quoted Post
The thing that I believe contributes to most peoples play style online is that most American players only exposure to real racing is Nascar. A lot of people don't even realize that most of the behavior that goes on in MP races would result in penalties in Grand Prix, Indy, or sports car racing. This is not the only contributer to the problem but this explains the rubbing is racing mentally of a lot of people.

guess what while I don't have Forza 5, but in Forza 4 and Forza 3 I have been wrecked by just as any people from around the world as people in the USA
not only that but as a American I enjoy all sorts of racing not just NASCAR
so sorry its not just an American rubbing is racing thing


Indeed. Ever seen Euro Touring Car or Aussie V8? They drive like their opponent's car owes them money.



I didn't mean to offend anyone. I assume that everyone here races clean. I wouldn't say I'm perfect, I make mistakes, Everyone does. I do try to to race clean as I'm sure just about everyone on this board does.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#45 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:52:19 PM(UTC)
Normally I'd disagree, because I like to imagine other people are smart enough to figure these things out on their own, like I did, because I don't expect anyone to be dumber than me. But I remember playing a GT game when I was younger and it had a drivers licence thing, if I remember right you had to unlock certain races by getting your licence, or completing a certain amount of races towards getting a full licence. That was a great system, and I feel like adding a test, or tutorial similar to it before you can access online Circuit racing would be a step in the right direction. The test would involve clean passes, racing lines, braking zones, etc, etc.
Wornburner says NO.
Rank: Racing Legend
#46 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:06:22 PM(UTC)
@Prolacticus - I agree that the developers need to do more to tackle this. Can they come up with a perfect solution? No. Should we expect everyone to play the game our way? No. I agree with Shadow up to a point but I do think clean racing should be something the developers work harder to enable. No Collision lobbies is a bandaid.

So with the manual idea - for it to have a significant impact the manual would need to say what the crashers need to hear. Taking Shadow's point how far should the manual go?

Let's assume it says everything which it would not. The crashers need to be manual readers and willing to learn.

No one here can know how big an impact it would have but my gut feel is there are not enough people in the crasher group that would improve because of this.
I blame the ants.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#47 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:52:20 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TG Wormburner Go to Quoted Post
Thread cleaned.


At the rate of which these bans are getting handed out there'll soon be no one left on these forums to actually post...

Bigtime Muscle Member | Now on One!
Rank: On the Podium
#48 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 7:58:43 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Yakov Alfa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TG Wormburner Go to Quoted Post
Thread cleaned.


At the rate of which these bans are getting handed out there'll soon be no one left on these forums to actually post...


If people learned to control themselves when posting and weren't baiting or trolling left and right here it wouldn't be a problem. I'm tired of coming on and having to do all the paperwork and write ups for all of them.

They'll be back, hopefully with a better understanding of the forum rules.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#49 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:46:06 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
No Collision lobbies is a bandaid.



I 100% totally and completely disagree with you. No collision lobbies was the only reason I even remotely bothered returning to multiplayer. I thoroughly enjoy them (despite the people that still corner cut to win or try to win, which I report as much as possible).

These lobbies are a good solution for peace-of-mind online racing. Some people do say that "it isn't real racing". That's fine but then again is this really "real racing" or is it just a game that's meant to be enjoyed by anyone and everyone involved? Adding this option has made Forza 5 ten times more fun for me online. As you said, is there a prefect solution? No but no-collisions lobbies is certainly a positive step in the right direction, as far as I'm concerned.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just wanted to say that the OP is one of the best and most thought out posts I've seen on the forums for quite some time. Kudos to you! I agree with most of what you're saying however....there's no cure for the sinful nature of people. Will a manual or in-game guide or license test, etc. help that much? Only testing these things over time will tell. Perhaps post some of your ideas in the "features wishlist thread"? You never know. Someone might notice.

As you say, there is temptation to "fight back" and crash the crasher. To me, I have two current options:

1. Use the block and report features provided, which is all that is provided currently.

2. Do the selfish, immature thing by "crashing" back because I'm getting frustrated.

We all have personal choices to make with our online behaviour, whether we have guides/instructions/manuals or not. The latter resulting in potential similar punishment to the "crashers"/"trolls".
I buy, upgrade and tune cars to the max. That's what I live for in Forza. I'm always in the need for more cars. Check out my custom routes in Horizon 4! https://forums.forzamoto...routes.aspx#post_1133141
Rank: Racing Legend
 1 user liked this post.
#50 Posted : Thursday, July 31, 2014 11:04:35 PM(UTC)
I am enjoying the no collision lobbies. Don't get me wrong.

But they are a bandaid in that there is no fighting for position. More should be done to enable clean racing where contact is possible. In a no collision lobby you just need to be able to lap fast. There is no "video game race craft" involved.

I dont mean no collision lobbies are bad or should be removed. I have suggested we should have more of them here and in fh2. But that is just because they seem willing to put these out where a better solution is better dealing with the deliberate crashing so drafting and racing in traffic can be done with reduced risk of trolls ruining it.

Edit: example from a recent collision lobby race. Last lap at Longbeach. I was in 2nd on final lap. I had to try an out braking move at end of back straight. I actually got it wrong and took out the 1st place car so pulled over to give them their spot back. In ano collision lobby there is no offensive / defensive driving needed, just stay on the line and hope your best laps are quick enough.

Edited by user Thursday, July 31, 2014 11:09:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I blame the ants.
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