Rank: Driver's Permit
 3 users liked this post.
#1 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 2:55:07 AM(UTC)
I've been playing FH4 15 months, had maxed out my credits and have replaced most of the cars that I bought in the auctions with ones I've earnt. I hadn't used my Xbox Series S for about ten days, in the mean time there had been the Hoonigan RS200 and Ferrari 599xx Evo on the Forza shop and I'd bought both whilst playing on my Xbox One X. I had three of the Hoonigans with different setups, I'd replaced two of the three with ones I'd earnt and replaced the third with one from the Forza shop and sold the auction one at minimum start price - my credits were maxed out so don't care about earning more.

I started the Xbox Series S and quick resume kicked in, loading from where I last used the device ten days previously. The sold Hoonigan was back, the replacement gone, the second Ferrari which I'd setup in white with winter tyres was gone and my progress was pushed back ten days. I shut down the system, restarted, removed the quick resume and restarted the game. It said there was a sync issue between a local save game for today and one for yesterday from the cloud storage, I chose the latter but still the progress was gone.

I contacted support and poilitely request they fix my progress, remove the cars that I had auctioned off as they shouldn't be there and return the missing Forza purchases. I also offerered they deduct 100mil credits for their trouble. Their response - 20 year ban for cheating!

Watch out!

I'm also seriously consider requesting a refund for my pre-purchase of FH5.

I'm 50 years old, been in IT support and software testing for 30 years. This is a fault with the systems which instead of looking into I've been called a cheat and locked out.

Not happy :(
Rank: Racing Permit
#2 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 3:05:13 AM(UTC)
That's bad! Did they explain the reason?

I can't see you did anything wrong. I've had sync issues when using Xbox Cloud on FH4 and that made me nervous.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#3 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 3:31:00 AM(UTC)
So despite support knowing that they have banned innocent people erroneously before, because they have (on rare occasions) fessed up and reversed the decision, they are STILL shooting first and asking questions later. I'm not surprised. We all have this sword of Damocles hanging over us from a badly designed system and badly trained support staff.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#4 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 3:31:39 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BruskLawyer6315 Go to Quoted Post
That's bad! Did they explain the reason?

I can't see you did anything wrong. I've had sync issues when using Xbox Cloud on FH4 and that made me nervous.


In short - no.

--

Battleman (Forza Support)

Jul 19, 2021, 1:04 PM PDT
Hello,

This account and its associated Windows PC were both issued permanent suspensions for the use of unauthorized modification, purchasing a modded account, or save swapping to obtain unaccounted for credits, experience, cars not available, cars prior to their release date and/or wheelspins.

Should any account attempt to access this game via the banned device, it will become locked from all online player content.

While we appreciate your passion regarding this enforcement, we can assure you that this suspension was not issued lightly. Suspensions are only issued following a rigorous investigation of the account’s activity and conduct confirming that a Code of Conduct violation occurred. Additionally, we thoroughly reviewed the circumstances behind the enforcement and again confirmed that the violation occurred, and that enforcement action was warranted. As a result, we cannot adjust or remove the suspension.

Cheating disrupts the gaming experience for other players and diminishes their hard work and dedication. Developers work extremely hard to publish quality Turn 10 Studios’ and Playground Games titles, and players play hard to enjoy them. To ensure that players continue to have a positive experience, we cannot allow cheating in any form. Due to the severity of the violation, we can no longer trust the account or its associated PCs.

Furthermore, upon account creation, the Microsoft Code of Conduct is read and accepted, thus ensuring us that our players are aware of the potential repercussions for breaking the rules set in place by said document.

Please note that further behavior of this type will result in more stringent enforcement action, up to and including further permanent suspension of accounts and/or associated PCs and consoles.

For more information on what is, and is not acceptable, as well as what can result in enforcement action, please give the following short pages a read:

Microsoft's Code of Conduct Explained for Xbox Live Customers
Forza Enforcement Guidelines

Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#5 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 3:47:28 AM(UTC)
I do not know if this advice is appropriate, but we all faced the problem of data synchronization when we were offered a choice: saving earlier from the console or saving later from the cloud. Therefore, always choose to save from the console, this will help you avoid a lot of troubles associated with cloud synchronization and even a ban. ALWAYS CHOOSE TO SAVE FROM THE CONSOLE!
I do not know English very well, so I apologize in advance for any errors
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 4:17:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VampTigger Go to Quoted Post
I'm also seriously consider requesting a refund for my pre-purchase of FH5.


You should be able to just cancel the pre-order as, far as I can tell, no money is taken until launch day....I checked my credit card after pre-ordering and nothing was showing up
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#7 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 4:58:08 AM(UTC)
Quote:
Suspensions are only issued following a rigorous investigation of the account’s activity and conduct confirming that a Code of Conduct violation occurred.

We know for a fact this is not true. They ought to stop saying it.


Originally Posted by: Nursemorph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VampTigger Go to Quoted Post
I'm also seriously consider requesting a refund for my pre-purchase of FH5.


You should be able to just cancel the pre-order as, far as I can tell, no money is taken until launch day....I checked my credit card after pre-ordering and nothing was showing up

Am I right in thinking his entire Xbox account is now banned from playing any Forza title online, past or future? FH5 will be all but useless to him in that case, so a refund now is very advisable.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 20, 2021 5:00:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 5:14:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Am I right in thinking his entire Xbox account is now banned from playing any Forza title online, past or future? FH5 will be all but useless to him in that case, so a refund now is very advisable.


Not sure on that one....I know it has been asked on here before but no clue what the answer is. The penalty for the offense listed is "a permanent suspension of both the account and device"..however, below that it states: "In addition, some violations can result in a console ban. Should any account attempt to access any Forza titles via the banned device, it will become locked from all online content."

On that basis, it would depend which ban it is...far as I can tell, only the console ban would lock you out of FH5. Could be wrong though
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#9 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 5:15:53 AM(UTC)
That sort of error suggests that you changed the date on your Series S, or XBox One X.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 20, 2021 5:19:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#10 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 6:34:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
That sort of error suggests that you changed the date on your Series S, or XBox One X.


Not deliberately. Xbox Series S and X have quick resume which works similar to the resume of your laptop. You close the lid, it dumps the current memory to a file and then when restarted reloads that content and your machine is where you left it.

The quick resume rolled me back to where it was the last time I'd used it. It didn't check if I'd used the game on another Xbox. When restated with quick resume off, it asked if I wanted to use the save on the console or the one from the previous day from the cloud. I selected the cloud version hoping to get my progress back but it still didn't give me the last week back. When I reported the fault to support and asked for help they banned me instead.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 20, 2021 6:49:58 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 7:25:29 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VampTigger Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
That sort of error suggests that you changed the date on your Series S, or XBox One X.


Not deliberately. Xbox Series S and X have quick resume which works similar to the resume of your laptop. You close the lid, it dumps the current memory to a file and then when restarted reloads that content and your machine is where you left it.

The quick resume rolled me back to where it was the last time I'd used it. It didn't check if I'd used the game on another Xbox. When restated with quick resume off, it asked if I wanted to use the save on the console or the one from the previous day from the cloud. I selected the cloud version hoping to get my progress back but it still didn't give me the last week back. When I reported the fault to support and asked for help they banned me instead.


The team can easily replicate that, you should get everything back.

Rank: R-Class Racing License
 4 users liked this post.
#12 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 7:44:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Nursemorph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Am I right in thinking his entire Xbox account is now banned from playing any Forza title online, past or future? FH5 will be all but useless to him in that case, so a refund now is very advisable.


Not sure on that one....I know it has been asked on here before but no clue what the answer is. The penalty for the offense listed is "a permanent suspension of both the account and device"..however, below that it states: "In addition, some violations can result in a console ban. Should any account attempt to access any Forza titles via the banned device, it will become locked from all online content."

On that basis, it would depend which ban it is...far as I can tell, only the console ban would lock you out of FH5. Could be wrong though


It wouldn't hurt them to use plain English from time to time, rather than vague and cryptic statements which you can read several times and still not know the answer to a simple question.

OP should try and appeal and if that fails, maybe get some publicity on reddit which might shame them into action as bad PR seems to be the only way to get them to behave decently sometimes.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#13 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 8:06:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
Suspensions are only issued following a rigorous investigation of the account’s activity and conduct confirming that a Code of Conduct violation occurred.

We know for a fact this is not true. They ought to stop saying it.


Originally Posted by: Nursemorph Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VampTigger Go to Quoted Post
I'm also seriously consider requesting a refund for my pre-purchase of FH5.


You should be able to just cancel the pre-order as, far as I can tell, no money is taken until launch day....I checked my credit card after pre-ordering and nothing was showing up

Am I right in thinking his entire Xbox account is now banned from playing any Forza title online, past or future? FH5 will be all but useless to him in that case, so a refund now is very advisable.


I have FH1 - 4 plus Motorsport 7. I can try Forza Motorsport 7 and see what happens.

Rank: Driver's Permit
#14 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 8:08:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VampTigger Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
That sort of error suggests that you changed the date on your Series S, or XBox One X.


Not deliberately. Xbox Series S and X have quick resume which works similar to the resume of your laptop. You close the lid, it dumps the current memory to a file and then when restarted reloads that content and your machine is where you left it.

The quick resume rolled me back to where it was the last time I'd used it. It didn't check if I'd used the game on another Xbox. When restated with quick resume off, it asked if I wanted to use the save on the console or the one from the previous day from the cloud. I selected the cloud version hoping to get my progress back but it still didn't give me the last week back. When I reported the fault to support and asked for help they banned me instead.


The team can easily replicate that, you should get everything back.



I've been in software testing in the past, I agree with you that it should be easy to replicated but instead they just banned a formerly happy customer without bothering to try and replicate the issue.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#15 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 8:11:32 AM(UTC)
Quick Resume is frequently glitchy. A friend with FM7 on a Series S had the game locked up and each time it was restarted quick resume restored it to the same locked up state. That's how come I knew how to remove a quick resume from the Series S to fix that problem for them, unfortunately it did not fix mine.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#16 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 8:15:15 AM(UTC)
Battleman (Forza Support)

Jul 20, 2021, 9:01 AM PDT
Hello,

While we appreciate your passion regarding this enforcement, we can assure you that this suspension was not issued lightly. Suspensions are only issued following a rigorous investigation of the account’s activity and conduct confirming that a Code of Conduct violation occurred. Additionally, after receiving an inquiry we thoroughly reviewed the circumstances behind the enforcement and again confirmed that the violation occurred, and that enforcement action was warranted. As a result, we cannot adjust or remove the suspension.

--

Vampire Tigger
Tue 20/07/2021 17:13
Please escalate this to your superiors.

Thank-you.

Adrian

Sent from Adrian's iPhone

Rank: R-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#17 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2021 9:04:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VampTigger Go to Quoted Post
Battleman (Forza Support)

Jul 20, 2021, 9:01 AM PDT
Hello,

While we appreciate your passion regarding this enforcement, we can assure you that this suspension was not issued lightly. Suspensions are only issued following a rigorous investigation of the account’s activity and conduct confirming that a Code of Conduct violation occurred. Additionally, after receiving an inquiry we thoroughly reviewed the circumstances behind the enforcement and again confirmed that the violation occurred, and that enforcement action was warranted. As a result, we cannot adjust or remove the suspension.

--

Vampire Tigger
Tue 20/07/2021 17:13
Please escalate this to your superiors.

Thank-you.

Adrian

Sent from Adrian's iPhone




That is the same copy and paste message they send to everyone, FYI.

https://forums.forzamoto...r-I-saw-this-letter.aspx
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#18 Posted : Wednesday, July 21, 2021 1:50:59 PM(UTC)
You worked in software testing for 30 years? If that's true, I must ask why not just close the game completely every time you log off? This quick resume deal is a superfluous feature and already present on XBO (per one active game, unlike XSX/S). Even with that feature on XB1 I've always closed out everything when I shut down the system. I've had not a single sync issue resulting in progress loss or a ban.

If your ban really was for (allegedly) using quick resume as some progress/sync exploit (intentional or not), now you know to close it out when you get done. Quick resume isn't some flawless, magic feature that some people make it out to be. I've never trusted it enough to use it, especially with the data syncing forced down my throat on Xbox systems. Not to mention I've always been used to closing out everything when I log off to begin with.

Live and learn, and let this be a lesson to others who will end up in the exact same or a closely similar situation like I've seen time and time again on anything that uses cloud sync, especially gaming consoles. Close out your games and apps when you're done. XB1X and XSX/S don't have long startup times running any games from my experience, so you're trading those mere 15-20 seconds for a great deal of reassurance that nothing like this will happen. :)
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#19 Posted : Wednesday, July 21, 2021 2:22:36 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BomberVette Go to Quoted Post
You worked in software testing for 30 years? If that's true, I must ask why not just close the game completely every time you log off? This quick resume deal is a superfluous feature and already present on XBO (per one active game, unlike XSX/S). Even with that feature on XB1 I've always closed out everything when I shut down the system. I've had not a single sync issue resulting in progress loss or a ban.

If your ban really was for (allegedly) using quick resume as some progress/sync exploit (intentional or not), now you know to close it out when you get done. Quick resume isn't some flawless, magic feature that some people make it out to be. I've never trusted it enough to use it, especially with the data syncing forced down my throat on Xbox systems. Not to mention I've always been used to closing out everything when I log off to begin with.

Live and learn, and let this be a lesson to others who will end up in the exact same or a closely similar situation like I've seen time and time again on anything that uses cloud sync, especially gaming consoles. Close out your games and apps when you're done. XB1X and XSX/S don't have long startup times running any games from my experience, so you're trading those mere 15-20 seconds for a great deal of reassurance that nothing like this will happen. :)


The idea of fixing bugs is so that people can use computers how they are supposed to be used, and not have the user make changes to their behaviour to solve a problem. Even back in 1980 there were rules for programmers "I didn't expect them to press that button!".. there were examples in magazines like that.

Edited by user Wednesday, July 21, 2021 2:24:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#20 Posted : Wednesday, July 21, 2021 2:31:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
The idea of fixing bugs is so that people can use computers how they are supposed to be used, and not have the user make changes to their behaviour to solve a problem.


The idea of adding some feature like quick resume shouldn't affect the end user in some major, negative way simply for using it. Do you understand where I'm coming from on this? If the guy really did not do anything nefarious, he literally got permabanned for using a feature of the console. Bugs will show up, yes. But, again given nothing against agreements was done, this guy getting permabanned isn't just some ordinary bug. It's a direct effect of this fantastic, magical feature of quick resume. I'll say it once again, you're spending 20 second, if even that, to start up a game nowadays. Are those 20 or less seconds of your life are so precious that they can't be spent waiting for a game to boot up?
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Wednesday, July 21, 2021 11:34:51 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BomberVette Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
The idea of fixing bugs is so that people can use computers how they are supposed to be used, and not have the user make changes to their behaviour to solve a problem.


The idea of adding some feature like quick resume shouldn't affect the end user in some major, negative way simply for using it. Do you understand where I'm coming from on this? If the guy really did not do anything nefarious, he literally got permabanned for using a feature of the console. Bugs will show up, yes. But, again given nothing against agreements was done, this guy getting permabanned isn't just some ordinary bug. It's a direct effect of this fantastic, magical feature of quick resume. I'll say it once again, you're spending 20 second, if even that, to start up a game nowadays. Are those 20 or less seconds of your life are so precious that they can't be spent waiting for a game to boot up?


No I don't... same argument, you are asking people to change their behaviour to fix problems with programming.

Notification

Icon
Error