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Rank: Driver's License
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#1 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2021 4:24:00 AM(UTC)
Current anti-ramming system got rid of divebombers and wallriders, which is great and was the biggest issue of the game, but straight lines are still one big pushover game, here's my idea for fixing it

Create "Flat out zones" and make a system judging whether a player has a reason to touch another player or not

Flat out zones: basically any straight/slightly curved road that doesn't require you to brake

In those zones an algorithm would be activated that detects contact and checks whether there is a reason for contact or not, if there is no apparent reason (like racers going head-to-head and one of them suddenly ramming another) give penalty to the rammer

Reasons for contact:
- Detecting wheelspin
- Detecting loss of grip
- A traffic car is in front of the player making contact
- Contact force didn't exceed it's threshold (like with current ghost, where you can rub against your opponents without ghosting out)

What do you think about it? Do you think it could make Horizon racing better?

Edited by user Tuesday, May 4, 2021 4:41:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Grammar

Rank: Racing Permit
#2 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2021 7:08:33 AM(UTC)
A complete waste of time, and its not needed.

If you are telling me that you cant maintain your car on the road because someone is trying to pass you and there is no space and he is gently ramming you to be able to pass you, then you just need more driving skills. Plain and simple. Ramming is something usual in ANY racing game, or in most of them, to an extend. If you cant live with that.. find another game.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#3 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2021 7:34:02 AM(UTC)
It would help if you supplied your example code.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2021 8:19:19 AM(UTC)
It's easier to have "Damage: On" in race
look at other games ur not able to win with a damaged car
so u have to think twice before hitting someone

+ 24h autoban if someone is constantly crashing his car

Edited by user Tuesday, May 4, 2021 8:25:55 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#5 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2021 8:48:26 AM(UTC)
The problem is everyone knows they can wreck and smash all they want without ever having to worry about getting a ban.
The fact it is near impossible to report rammers in the game only encourages ramming, and then you have to report them to Microsoft and not PGG. I could literally report at least one player in every single race I enter, but of course, I would have to record every single race I enter to have proof of it. The entire system is designed to encourage ramming. I tested the system myself, got the video, reported it to Microsoft and the answer I got was report it to PGG. And of course, PGG made it clear in their tos that it should be reported to Microsoft.
This late in the game, I no longer care, I'm out to gain influence alone, I can do that from last place and let the children wreck and smash each other to their hearts content. I only have two main goals left in the game, get to max level legitimately without running 50 lap races and collecting new cars.
Currently, Prestige level is 10, level 2,402 with 40,100 races. And that's getting harder because the game itself robs you of influence points, numerous times the influence bar stops just short of the next level and after the next adventure, it is magically set back to the beginning. My guess is, they really want players to just quit completely.
Rank: Driver's License
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#6 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2021 11:56:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: George RGJ Go to Quoted Post
If you are telling me that you cant maintain your car on the road because someone is trying to pass you and there is no space and he is gently ramming you to be able to pass you, then you just need more driving skills.

You completely missed my point, I can manage my car on straights, I respect that I get passed because my opponent has a faster car, but some people don't and they'll ram you off if you're about to pass them, they should be penalized for intentional ramming

Rubbing is a completely different thing and you can't avoid it, I'm fine with that, what annoys me is people who just won't let you pass on straights if you have a faster car

Originally Posted by: George RGJ Go to Quoted Post
Ramming is something usual in ANY racing game, or in most of them, to an extend. If you cant live with that.. find another game.

But I don't want another game, I want to play Horizon because of it's variety, ramming is not okay, rubbing and bumping is unavoidable, you can't control your car to that extent, and even if, it's still not as influential, but ramming is just being a douche, because "F*ck you, I have fun when ramming others". If I wanted to play a game like this I'd play Wreckfest not Forza

Edited by user Tuesday, May 4, 2021 12:15:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#7 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2021 12:01:57 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PurpleAlien420 Go to Quoted Post
The problem is everyone knows they can wreck and smash all they want without ever having to worry about getting a ban.


Yes but an improvement to the automatic system could be a good thing if we talked about it loud enough, if we didn't moan about rammers ruining every single race we would never get current ghosting system, so if we started complaining again it could work. If it was harder to ram people, most rammers would just give up

Edited by user Tuesday, May 4, 2021 12:14:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
 1 user liked this post.
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#8 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2021 12:21:14 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
It would help if you supplied your example code.

I'm not a programmer

Just make a simple check

I don't know

if car = contact and location = in flat out zone
check variables:
wheelspin = yes/no
traction loss = yes/no
traffic car ahead = yes/no
if any variable = yes
give no penalty
else
check contact time
if contact time > specified threshold
give penalty to the ramming car

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2021 3:01:47 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
It would help if you supplied your example code.

I'm not a programmer

Just make a simple check

I don't know

if car = contact and location = in flat out zone
check variables:
wheelspin = yes/no
traction loss = yes/no
traffic car ahead = yes/no
if any variable = yes
give no penalty
else
check contact time
if contact time > specified threshold
give penalty to the ramming car



I am a programmer, and it's hard to test for intent, although the rammer will usually be the car behind.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 4, 2021 3:02:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#10 Posted : Tuesday, May 4, 2021 8:34:23 PM(UTC)
Honestly I don't understand why cars don't just ghost on contact by now. Sure it's great to play with friends and have a little rubbing, etc, but randoms online? You give them any opportunity and they will find every little way to be unsportsmanlike. Just don't give them the chance, ever.

Side note: Can we then remove the self ghost effect? I play first person with as little UI as possible, and it's really annoying to get ghosted because the idiot behind me tried to ram me , and now I can't see my tach.
Rank: Racing Permit
#11 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 12:10:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post


Rubbing is a completely different thing and you can't avoid it, I'm fine with that, what annoys me is people who just won't let you pass on straights if you have a faster car


So, basically the same i do when playing against the AI...

If you are talking about the trial and team races, yes, some people dont really want to win but to bother other players, but honestly i dont find many of those. I usually find gentle people who will even push the brakes if they are going to hit someone else. I do it myself....

If you have driving skills there are many ways to get out of those situations. Or you can just fight for your space. You have the faster car, you have more probabilities of win the fight.
Or drive a heavier car.
Rank: Driver's License
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#12 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:13:42 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
It would help if you supplied your example code.

I'm not a programmer

Just make a simple check

I don't know

if car = contact and location = in flat out zone
check variables:
wheelspin = yes/no
traction loss = yes/no
traffic car ahead = yes/no
if any variable = yes
give no penalty
else
check contact time
if contact time > specified threshold
give penalty to the ramming car



I am a programmer, and it's hard to test for intent, although the rammer will usually be the car behind.


Rammer is usually the car ahead not behind, I often find myself in a situation where I'm about to pass someone and he rams me off

And the intent could be easy to check, detection zone would be on a relatively straight road, here you can check both cars turning angles, if one is unnecessary high it indicates the intent of ramming

Rank: Driver's License
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#13 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:21:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TheWarmWind76 Go to Quoted Post
Honestly I don't understand why cars don't just ghost on contact by now. Sure it's great to play with friends and have a little rubbing, etc, but randoms online? You give them any opportunity and they will find every little way to be unsportsmanlike. Just don't give them the chance, ever.


I love racing randoms that are actually good, giving them space and seeing them do the same feels respectful and very rewarding, for me at least, but I noticed that many people are like that

But every now and then there's that one d*ckhead that's just gonna play like a stupid kid, there should be no place for behaviour like this
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:25:40 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post


Rammer is usually the car ahead not behind, I often find myself in a situation where I'm about to pass someone and he rams me off

And the intent could be easy to check, detection zone would be on a relatively straight road, here you can check both cars turning angles, if one is unnecessary high it indicates the intent of ramming



The car in front ramming you off probably thinks that you are an Ai car trying to overtake. I have done that myself. So intent from the front car is even harder to figure out. You don't have mirrors in the Car Chase views. You have look behind, but that's hard to do.

Edited by user Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:28:30 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#15 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:33:33 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: George RGJ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post


Rubbing is a completely different thing and you can't avoid it, I'm fine with that, what annoys me is people who just won't let you pass on straights if you have a faster car


So, basically the same i do when playing against the AI...

If you are talking about the trial and team races, yes, some people dont really want to win but to bother other players, but honestly i dont find many of those. I usually find gentle people who will even push the brakes if they are going to hit someone else. I do it myself....


I do too, I make mistakes from time to time, but I find myself pretty consistent at keeping space between me and my opponents, I consider myself a pretty clean racer

Originally Posted by: George RGJ Go to Quoted Post
If you have driving skills there are many ways to get out of those situations. Or you can just fight for your space. You have the faster car, you have more probabilities of win the fight.
Or drive a heavier car.


Really depends on the situation, there are times when you haven't seen that player ram anyone off, so you think you can just pass him, and then he unexpectedly swipes across the road, you could counter that if your reflexes are good enough, but still, you lost focus on the next turn and there might not be enough time to adjust for it, the "faster car" varies too, I can easily deal with rammers in a grip build, just catch the inside line and slip by them, but when I want to play around with power builds my main way of overtaking is waiting for straights and sending it, this is where it's the easiest to be rammed

And I don't wanna switch to heavier car because some idiot decided to ruin everyone's fun, I wanna race cars I like, this is what I love Horizon for, it's variety
Rank: Driver's License
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#16 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:38:01 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post

The car in front ramming you off probably thinks that you are an Ai car trying to overtake.


What about all multiplayer races huh? Because that's where this happens the most to me

Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
You don't have mirrors in the Car Chase views. You have look behind, but that's hard to do.


It takes a split second to just poke your right stick between shifts and look whether the car behind is in the red team or the blue team, you can also look at the scoreboard and look which colour is behind you, it takes literally a split of a second
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:51:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post


It takes a split second to just poke your right stick between shifts and look whether the car behind is in the red team or the blue team, you can also look at the scoreboard and look which colour is behind you, it takes literally a split of a second


I don't use rear look, and the scoreboard is never accurate, and really I just remember that I overtook a red car, if a blue car follows me through I will turn towards them when they overtake me. Also not many people do overtake me anyway, I usually get past the red cars... what's the point of overtaking the leading blue cars?... unless they are going so slow that you think they will hold you up too much.

Anyway the point is that intent is hard to program.

Edited by user Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:57:31 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#18 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:57:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post


It takes a split second to just poke your right stick between shifts and look whether the car behind is in the red team or the blue team, you can also look at the scoreboard and look which colour is behind you, it takes literally a split of a second


I don't use rear look, and the scoreboard is never accurate, and really I just remember that I overtook a red car, if a blue car follows me through I will turn towards them when they overtake me. Also not many people do overtake me anyway.


That's kind of a being an as*hole you know? Think about it from the other guy's perspective, you're faster than your teammate, you're about to pass him, he's gonna be chill since you're on the same team and you're co-operating to win the Trial but blam!, he pushes you off....
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#19 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 1:59:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post


That's kind of a being an as*hole you know? Think about it from the other guy's perspective, you're faster than your teammate, you're about to pass him, he's gonna be chill since you're on the same team and you're co-operating to win the Trial but blam!, he pushes you off....


So your own mind is even struggling to understand intent, and you expect someone to program it better than you can understand it. I also need to add that I don't push them off once I see the blue team badge, I have only knocked them a bit by then.

Edited by user Wednesday, May 5, 2021 2:04:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#20 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 2:04:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post


That's kind of a being an as*hole you know? Think about it from the other guy's perspective, you're faster than your teammate, you're about to pass him, he's gonna be chill since you're on the same team and you're co-operating to win the Trial but blam!, he pushes you off....


So your own mind is even struggling to understand intent, and you expect someone to program it better than you can understand it?



No, you don't understand that ramming off other players is being a d*ck, ramming someone off because you thought it was a bot is not a good intent, it's being lazy and not cautious about what's happening around you
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 2:05:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post


That's kind of a being an as*hole you know? Think about it from the other guy's perspective, you're faster than your teammate, you're about to pass him, he's gonna be chill since you're on the same team and you're co-operating to win the Trial but blam!, he pushes you off....


So your own mind is even struggling to understand intent, and you expect someone to program it better than you can understand it?



No, you don't understand that ramming off other players is being a d*ck, ramming someone off because you thought it was a bot is not a good intent, it's being lazy and not cautious about what's happening around you


You can't punish players for a mistake is the point.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#22 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 2:07:25 AM(UTC)
Some of the comments on here emphasise the problem with ramming. Ramming of any sort is not acceptable in FH4 multiplayer racing. If that’s how you overtake or prevent others overtaking you, then you need to improve your driving skills or find another game, not the other way around. The only reason you are able to get away with it currently is because of poor moderation.

Ideally, there would be active moderation of this issue However, if that’s not possible, then improving the automated system is a good plan. I can’t see it happening in FH4 but some system that stops the type of sideswipe ramming the OP describes would be fantastic. I’m not sure how easy it would be to implement though.
Rank: Driver's License
User is suspended until 5/12/2021 7:24:12 AM(UTC)
#23 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 2:09:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: KarczekZWieprza Go to Quoted Post


That's kind of a being an as*hole you know? Think about it from the other guy's perspective, you're faster than your teammate, you're about to pass him, he's gonna be chill since you're on the same team and you're co-operating to win the Trial but blam!, he pushes you off....


So your own mind is even struggling to understand intent, and you expect someone to program it better than you can understand it?



No, you don't understand that ramming off other players is being a d*ck, ramming someone off because you thought it was a bot is not a good intent, it's being lazy and not cautious about what's happening around you


You can't punish players for a mistake is the point.


Then learn not to make this mistake, is it that hard?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#24 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 2:12:20 AM(UTC)
Also, “I ram people off at the trial because I’m not sure whether they are AI or not”, has to be one of the worst excuses I’ve ever seen. Just don’t ram anyone if you aren’t sure if they are human or AI. It’s really quite simple to be part of the solution, rather than the problem.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#25 Posted : Wednesday, May 5, 2021 2:28:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Also, “I ram people off at the trial because I’m not sure whether they are AI or not”, has to be one of the worst excuses I’ve ever seen. Just don’t ram anyone if you aren’t sure if they are human or AI. It’s really quite simple to be part of the solution, rather than the problem.


It's not a solution, because the best winning tactic is to ram the Ai off the road... my team has only ever lost once in 2 years, and it's a team event. It's not just me I see the cars ahead of me holding the red cars up too.

Edited by user Wednesday, May 5, 2021 2:33:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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