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Rank: Driver's License
#1 Posted : Sunday, March 14, 2021 12:07:41 PM(UTC)
Hi All

How come that every time I start any online competition, all the players are always ahead of me and however I accelarated or driven cleanly there is no way to catch up with the group? My Internet is apr 50Mb and ping 30-40. Is it geographical location? Do you think my race ma be delayed somehow? I literally never ever was able to match with any of the competitors. Always 20s behind
Thanks for any answer given
Rank: Driver's License
 2 users liked this post.
#2 Posted : Sunday, March 14, 2021 3:42:09 PM(UTC)
Just to cover the obvious:
You did tune your car properly, right? To the maximum allowed performance rating?
Rank: Racing Permit
#3 Posted : Sunday, March 14, 2021 3:54:02 PM(UTC)
Are you refering to the starting grid?
Rank: Racing Permit
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#4 Posted : Sunday, March 14, 2021 6:41:48 PM(UTC)
My understanding is if you're racing against other online people then your start position is random and that's been my experience. If you're racing against driveatars then the harder the difficulty setting then the further back you are on the grid.

But yeah, if you start at the back of the grid and have average skills like me then you're hard pressed to get on the podium. Once reason why it's important to have a decent tune when racing online as you'll get eaten alive by people with better tunes / faster cars.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#5 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 12:49:33 AM(UTC)
There are connection problems from time to time which affect most players. If you go offline (Horizon Solo) are you able to beat the AI on unbeatable setting?

If not, it sounds like a tuning issue. Fortunately, with FH4, there are numerous people willing to help. A couple of days before a new playlist starts, videos previewing the new playlist will start to appear on YouTube from players such as waznewz, lostphoenixgaming and others. The videos will include car recommendations, tunes and tips for completing races and challenges. Sometimes the AI seem to have unreal advantages (driving with nitro), other times they are easy to beat.

Once the playlist goes live, there will be YouTube videos showing the events in more detail and on this forum and elsewhere, lots of recommendations for cars and tunes. Hope your racing experience improves.

Edited by user Monday, March 15, 2021 12:51:27 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#6 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 2:32:36 AM(UTC)
Racing online you must have a decent tuned car, no two ways about it as others have said. You will never catch anyone with a stock car or poorly tuned car. Everyone tunes cars online and they are very good tunes so to compete you need to do the same.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 5:08:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Radpol2 Go to Quoted Post
Hi All

How come that every time I start any online competition, all the players are always ahead of me and however I accelarated or driven cleanly there is no way to catch up with the group? My Internet is apr 50Mb and ping 30-40. Is it geographical location? Do you think my race ma be delayed somehow? I literally never ever was able to match with any of the competitors. Always 20s behind
Thanks for any answer given


What cars and tunes are you using, in what classes and race types. If you just turn up with something random you are probably going to get smoked.
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#8 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 7:18:42 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Radpol2 Go to Quoted Post
Hi All

How come that every time I start any online competition, all the players are always ahead of me and however I accelarated or driven cleanly there is no way to catch up with the group? My Internet is apr 50Mb and ping 30-40. Is it geographical location? Do you think my race ma be delayed somehow? I literally never ever was able to match with any of the competitors. Always 20s behind
Thanks for any answer given


What cars and tunes are you using, in what classes and race types. If you just turn up with something random you are probably going to get smoked.


Like me... when I rolled up in an '86 Escort RS against Boneshakers. Fall 2019 was magic.
Rank: Driver's License
#9 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 1:21:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HossiTheHoss Go to Quoted Post
Just to cover the obvious:
You did tune your car properly, right? To the maximum allowed performance rating?

Yes. Lets take my Lambo Centenario tuned to 9.8/10/10/10/10. My current rank is 130, so I know a bit about driving. Everytime I compete in ranked competition for s1 class I smell everyone's smoke 5 sec after kick off. Not to mention i have started from pole position once. After a while i see them all ahead of me without a slight chance to catch up. And I drove on full throtle. How annoying this is.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 2:01:36 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PandemicBow2072 Go to Quoted Post
My understanding is if you're racing against other online people then your start position is random and that's been my experience. If you're racing against driveatars then the harder the difficulty setting then the further back you are on the grid.

But yeah, if you start at the back of the grid and have average skills like me then you're hard pressed to get on the podium. Once reason why it's important to have a decent tune when racing online as you'll get eaten alive by people with better tunes / faster cars.


Well I usually start at the back, but I nearly always overtake everyone in about 15 seconds. I seem to have higher acceleration than most players.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 2:12:41 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Radpol2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HossiTheHoss Go to Quoted Post
Just to cover the obvious:
You did tune your car properly, right? To the maximum allowed performance rating?

Yes. Lets take my Lambo Centenario tuned to 9.8/10/10/10/10. My current rank is 130, so I know a bit about driving. Everytime I compete in ranked competition for s1 class I smell everyone's smoke 5 sec after kick off. Not to mention i have started from pole position once. After a while i see them all ahead of me without a slight chance to catch up. And I drove on full throtle. How annoying this is.


OK so what about difficulty settings? You need traction control off, steering aid off, and auto braking off. You can have ABS on, steering NORMAL. Automatic gears are OK. Oh and AWD is nearly always better than RWD.

And make sure you haven't messed up your controller settings.

Edited by user Monday, March 15, 2021 2:15:19 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#12 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 3:57:37 PM(UTC)
Everything set up as described. I just took part in 5 races. All lost. A800 class. Is it possible that everybody has better car than me? I bought very ggod ones on auction and tuned them . Once we start I only see smoke.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 5:39:15 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RB033 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Radpol2 Go to Quoted Post
Hi All

How come that every time I start any online competition, all the players are always ahead of me and however I accelarated or driven cleanly there is no way to catch up with the group? My Internet is apr 50Mb and ping 30-40. Is it geographical location? Do you think my race ma be delayed somehow? I literally never ever was able to match with any of the competitors. Always 20s behind
Thanks for any answer given


What cars and tunes are you using, in what classes and race types. If you just turn up with something random you are probably going to get smoked.


Like me... when I rolled up in an '86 Escort RS against Boneshakers. Fall 2019 was magic.


My initial efforts at ranked play weren't very memorable either, I didn't pay attention to the cars / tunes I needed at first. Then I figured out I needed a Bone Shaker but they were unobtainable for quite a while. Fun times... seems like a long time ago now.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Monday, March 15, 2021 5:47:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Radpol2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HossiTheHoss Go to Quoted Post
Just to cover the obvious:
You did tune your car properly, right? To the maximum allowed performance rating?

Yes. Lets take my Lambo Centenario tuned to 9.8/10/10/10/10. My current rank is 130, so I know a bit about driving. Everytime I compete in ranked competition for s1 class I smell everyone's smoke 5 sec after kick off. Not to mention i have started from pole position once. After a while i see them all ahead of me without a slight chance to catch up. And I drove on full throtle. How annoying this is.


What does rank 130 mean, you are ranked 130th in the world? Or your driver level is 130. I'm going to assume the latter. If you are getting well beaten then (with respect) you probably have a few things to learn or improve at. As for the car tuning, bear in mind that the performance numbers don't mean a whole lot in Forza in and of themselves.
Rank: Driver's License
#15 Posted : Tuesday, March 16, 2021 1:05:32 AM(UTC)
Thank you ALL for all the replies.

So let's consider this. I start race with 'the same' car as 3 other opponents. The same class , A800 for example. I bought my car on auction as A768, and added pre-defined tuning , so it got upgraded to A800. We start the race, and I see, the same car, the same car, the same overruns me right at the begginnig. So are the other cars. And even I dont do mistake and run really good, on full throttle most of the time, dont hit walls (for that particular race), I have no chances to catch up with them. I would understnad to come as 8th, 9th, even as last. But I am counted down every time and I never see the finishing line.

So my question is, shall I play with ever tuning setting, isn't pre-defined tuning not enough? Shall I change every clutch and break component and start the race again ? Or shall I check every car available in that class and manually tune it ? Maybe, but it makes not a lot sense to me. Are you saying that me, running with 130 driver level, can easily be taken over by players with rank 20, 30? In the same car ? Am I missing something here ?

Are you absolutely sure this is not Internet or geographical location issue . That maybe I am too far from UK servers and somehow I got delayed on the race ? I dont know,, maybe I am lost that beggining, because I start later. Just a conspiracy theory but I am really trying to understand the problem. If you say: "no, your game is local and your progress gets transferred in real time, work on your skills", I will accept it. But it is really difficult to uderstand what I wrote above. I am not expecting to win every race, but at least to be able to finish it. DOn't you see something is not right here ?

Cheers
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Tuesday, March 16, 2021 4:21:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Radpol2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HossiTheHoss Go to Quoted Post
Just to cover the obvious:
You did tune your car properly, right? To the maximum allowed performance rating?

Yes. Lets take my Lambo Centenario tuned to 9.8/10/10/10/10. My current rank is 130, so I know a bit about driving. Everytime I compete in ranked competition for s1 class I smell everyone's smoke 5 sec after kick off. Not to mention i have started from pole position once. After a while i see them all ahead of me without a slight chance to catch up. And I drove on full throtle. How annoying this is.

Those numbers tell you next to nothing about how good a build+tune is. The Centenario is 918 PI stock, do you mean S2 rather than S1?

I have a decent Centenario S2 tune shared if you want to try it. It's an extremely good car for S2 in wet conditions. If you search by my name, get the one called Hyperspeed Trial. If you want to drive against my ghost, go to
Rivals
Race Discipline Rivals
Road Racing
Derwent Lakeside Sprint
Rivals Challenge (first on the left, before S2)
Then press Y to change rival, I'm 156th on the leaderboard. I used my tune for that, so if you can't match my ghost, it's your driving, or the assists as mentioned above, but I would say auto gears are not okay, it's pretty essential to get used to manual gears, and manual with clutch for some cars. Some cars can do reasonably well with auto gears, but it's a bad habit to get into, you want manual gears to be so ingrained that you just do it without having to consciously think about it.

Edit: just had another go and improved to 123rd. The tune can do better than that, I was driving against my own ghost and had quite a big lead before the tricky right hander before you go uphill, I'd say I could take another 0.5 - 1.0 seconds off if I spent an hour trying. I actually used the tune called "Best Trial Car". It's long enough ago since I shared them that I can't remember what differences there are between the tunes I've shared, I remember I did reduce the oversteer a little for the Hyperspeed Trial tune, to make it a bit easier to drive for less skilled players.

Edited by user Tuesday, March 16, 2021 5:01:22 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Tuesday, March 16, 2021 5:36:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
I would say auto gears are not okay, it's pretty essential to get used to manual gears, and manual with clutch for some cars. Some cars can do reasonably well with auto gears, but it's a bad habit to get into, you want manual gears to be so ingrained that you just do it without having to consciously think about it.


I know what you're saying and you're definitely not wrong about manual being faster. However, this person's level is only 130 and they are getting left behind by everyone. Do you think that using manual might be a bit too much for them at this stage?

I don't do ranked except for the once a month requirement but I take 1st place in the Trial pretty regularly and I use auto exclusively. I also managed to stay within a few car lengths of two grandmasters during ranked last month so auto will get you pretty far.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Tuesday, March 16, 2021 5:51:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RED RIDER NL Go to Quoted Post
I know what you're saying and you're definitely not wrong about manual being faster. However, this person's level is only 130 and they are getting left behind by everyone. Do you think that using manual might be a bit too much for them at this stage?

I don't do ranked except for the once a month requirement but I take 1st place in the Trial pretty regularly and I use auto exclusively. I also managed to stay within a few car lengths of two grandmasters during ranked last month so auto will get you pretty far.

There's a difference between saying auto is okay full stop, and saying it's okay for a beginner. As I said, for some cars, auto is okay. There are also some cars where even M rather than MC will have you several seconds off the pace (e.g. EB110). As for what is too much for the OP, honestly, I couldn't say without more information. If they drive against a decent ghost with the same car and tune, they can soon see where they're losing time and what is causing it. If they use auto and are well behind before the first corner, then obviously that's a problem (I have no idea how my Centenario tune is with auto).

Personally, I would take the long term view and just use manual from the start. The longer you stick with auto, the more painful the transition will become. I had that in Rocket League where I played for some time with the default bindings before learning that basically every single top player uses non-default bindings because the default bindings limit the ability to do certain things together. So I decided to switch, and it was painful for a long time, because not only did I have to become familiar with the new bindings, I had to try to break the habits I'd formed with the default bindings. It made me worse in the short term than sticking with the default bindings, but every day I'd delayed it would just have got harder and harder to switch.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#19 Posted : Tuesday, March 16, 2021 6:10:30 AM(UTC)
I don't disagree with any of that. It just depends on what your goal is. I have fun with the game using auto and I do pretty well. I'm fine with not being a top ranked player.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#20 Posted : Tuesday, March 16, 2021 4:13:21 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Radpol2 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you ALL for all the replies.

So let's consider this. I start race with 'the same' car as 3 other opponents. The same class , A800 for example. I bought my car on auction as A768, and added pre-defined tuning , so it got upgraded to A800. We start the race, and I see, the same car, the same car, the same overruns me right at the begginnig. So are the other cars. And even I dont do mistake and run really good, on full throttle most of the time, dont hit walls (for that particular race), I have no chances to catch up with them. I would understnad to come as 8th, 9th, even as last. But I am counted down every time and I never see the finishing line.

So my question is, shall I play with ever tuning setting, isn't pre-defined tuning not enough? Shall I change every clutch and break component and start the race again ? Or shall I check every car available in that class and manually tune it ? Maybe, but it makes not a lot sense to me. Are you saying that me, running with 130 driver level, can easily be taken over by players with rank 20, 30? In the same car ? Am I missing something here ?

Are you absolutely sure this is not Internet or geographical location issue . That maybe I am too far from UK servers and somehow I got delayed on the race ? I dont know,, maybe I am lost that beggining, because I start later. Just a conspiracy theory but I am really trying to understand the problem. If you say: "no, your game is local and your progress gets transferred in real time, work on your skills", I will accept it. But it is really difficult to uderstand what I wrote above. I am not expecting to win every race, but at least to be able to finish it. DOn't you see something is not right here ?

Cheers


What does your 'level' have to do with the price of fish though? You didn't say if you're referring to driver level or rank but driver level is something that goes up the more you play, it doesn't have any correlation to skill.

Re tunes, you can have two cars the same model, both A800, one can be dramatically quicker than the other, for example because one has used up its pi 'budget' on handling parts and another on performance parts. The former car may handle great but be slow, and the latter may have challenging handling but be fast. If you are in the former type and other players are in the latter, you will not catch them on power tracks. Do you follow me? It's horses for courses in Forza. You need to pick the right car and tune - a proper tune, not one the game has automatically cobbled together. Then to be competitive you ideally need to drive with manual gears, and TCS and STM off. If you're driving auto then you are leaving a lot of performance on the table.

Yes we are absolutely sure it is not your internet or geographical issue.

Edited by user Tuesday, March 16, 2021 4:14:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Tuesday, March 16, 2021 5:02:00 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Radpol2 Go to Quoted Post
Thank you ALL for all the replies.

So let's consider this. I start race with 'the same' car as 3 other opponents. The same class , A800 for example. I bought my car on auction as A768, and added pre-defined tuning , so it got upgraded to A800. We start the race, and I see, the same car, the same car, the same overruns me right at the begginnig. So are the other cars. And even I dont do mistake and run really good, on full throttle most of the time, dont hit walls (for that particular race), I have no chances to catch up with them. I would understnad to come as 8th, 9th, even as last. But I am counted down every time and I never see the finishing line.

So my question is, shall I play with ever tuning setting, isn't pre-defined tuning not enough? Shall I change every clutch and break component and start the race again ? Or shall I check every car available in that class and manually tune it ? Maybe, but it makes not a lot sense to me. Are you saying that me, running with 130 driver level, can easily be taken over by players with rank 20, 30? In the same car ? Am I missing something here ?

Are you absolutely sure this is not Internet or geographical location issue . That maybe I am too far from UK servers and somehow I got delayed on the race ? I dont know,, maybe I am lost that beggining, because I start later. Just a conspiracy theory but I am really trying to understand the problem. If you say: "no, your game is local and your progress gets transferred in real time, work on your skills", I will accept it. But it is really difficult to uderstand what I wrote above. I am not expecting to win every race, but at least to be able to finish it. DOn't you see something is not right here ?

Cheers


Radpol2, I get the impression you are using the forza in game tuning where it automatically upgrades your car to a chosen class. If so I would recommend trying a few of the other tunes suggested. Even with the same car there are different tunes that are better for some races and weather conditions than others. I don't participate in ranked racing much but I do often catch up with the the rivals thread.


Edit: my apologies if I just repeated everyone else.

Edited by user Tuesday, March 16, 2021 5:08:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Tuesday, March 16, 2021 6:33:59 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: WhiteBurrito42 Go to Quoted Post

Radpol2, I get the impression you are using the forza in game tuning where it automatically upgrades your car to a chosen class. If so I would recommend trying a few of the other tunes suggested. Even with the same car there are different tunes that are better for some races and weather conditions than others. I don't participate in ranked racing much but I do often catch up with the the rivals thread.


Edit: my apologies if I just repeated everyone else.


No, WB, I think you hit it. When I was reading what he was saying by "pre-tuned" it sounds like either upgrading without tuning, or using the auto-upgrade thing. I don't have any experience with auto-upgrade since my first days in MS6 but I was not impressed with it.

So Radpol, one of the things you need to do is either get used to setting up your own tunes...or...go through Find Tunes and look for names of some of the people here. There are many, many tunes...and some are utter dreck. But the fine people here are often at the top of the class. Even someone like me, whereas I don't win often at the Online Adventures, but I strongly compete. And in the Trial, well, I have proven capable. Yes, auto will leave performance on the table...but it doesn't automatically mean you will get blown out all the time as you are saying. Until recently, I was 100% auto and still do fairly well.

Also, yes, check your settings/difficulty. If you have TCS or Stability Control on, switch them off. You might need to get used to it in the beginning, but 99% of the time, they only slow you down.

Also, make sure you are AWD not RWD. Really good players can do well with Rear Wheel Drive...but the rest of us plebs need the All Wheel Drive so we're not just spinning tires at the start while everyone else pulls away. Hope that helps.

Rank: Driver's License
#23 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2021 1:52:56 AM(UTC)
Yes, every post here helps . Thank you ALL once again.
Ok, I need to add-on few facts: by 'pre-tuned' I meant Find Tunes. I normally go through dozens of tunes in my class and try to find the best. But as you say, it is not enough ? I cannot do tweaks to Find Tunes. I either go with it or tune it my way. Considering there are so many options and components, are you saying I need to try them all ???
And yes, I have traction m stability and ABS on. Driving on manual all the time. I am on 99% Summer Festival List, as you see, I am that bad actually. Well, I agree some of the list items are pure luck or team efforts, not just mine.

But what I still dont understand is whatever car I always use, I am far behind. Even the 'Find Tuned' one.
So, question is: is there a one top notch car in each class with one best setting that will win every race (with decent player's skills of course).
How to tune them more if even the 'Find Tunes' are not enough ? Do I need to spend 10M IP to get proper car ... ?
Rank: Driver's Permit
#24 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:45:54 AM(UTC)
but a curiosity, at what level do you use single player drivatars? the tuning helps A LOT, but it is not essential to compete in the last places, another matter if you compete for the first places
Rank: Driver's Permit
#25 Posted : Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:47:01 AM(UTC)
but a curiosity, at what level do you use single player drivatars? the tuning helps A LOT, but it is not essential to compete in the last places, another matter if you compete for the first places
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