Rank: Racing Permit
#1 Posted : Tuesday, February 16, 2021 6:28:36 AM(UTC)
So I thought I'd post this for anyone who may be interested - perhaps to inspire someone else's Forza adventure (or perhaps to provide something to read as you kill some time on the bus, train or loo). It may also show that Eliminator, Ranked Online and Super 7 aren't the only ways to enjoy the game.

I've previously undertaken a few of these challenges now - as a keen car enthusiast Forza serves as my virtual automotive escape. I've completed a few spreadsheets in the past recording vehicle performance against PI rating. (Flaws with the in-game PI system have been well-documented both here and elsewhere but it was interesting to see first-hand just how accurate or inaccurate the ranking system was). Given that I enjoy a bit of Doug DeMuro, I've also completed my very own Doug Score sheet.

As for this challenge, I've often mused about what I'd have in my perfect 5-car garage. After much speculation, I thought I'd put those musings to the test (in-game at least). As with the in-game PI system, I'm interested to see how accurate (or inaccurate) my own predictions turn out to be.

Now the categories for my perfect 5-car garage are as follows:

1. Daily Driver- there's no hard rules here (e.g. 4 seats or more) but it does need to be useable.
2. Roadtrip Car- for something like a Top Gear style driving adventure.
3. Date Night - a nice combination of elegance, beauty, comfort and luxury.
4. Weekend Fun - separate to the road trip car, something for weekend drives on favourite bits of road.
5. Track Toy - pretty self explanatory.
6. Garage Dream - something a bit special.

Now I have indeed listed one too many categories for a 5-car garage. The reason being that I previously combined the Weekend and Track vehicles under one heading, assuming that one vehicle would serve both purposes. I've temporarily opened it up into two separate categories to see whether this is actually the case. It may be that I end up with the same vehicle in both categories (in which case the problem resolves itself) or it may be that I need to rethink my dream garage layout.

So here's my predictions:

1. Volkswagen Golf R
2. Lamborghini Huracan Performante
3. Bentley Continental GT
4. Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0
5. MINI R56 GP (aka GP2)
6. Bugatti Chiron

(Yes, I'm aware that the above list consists almost exclusively of VAG products - I didn't intend for this to be the case.)

I've compiled a list which includes (nearly) every in-game car. There's also a few duplicates which I'm using to represent model variants not currently included in Forza Horizon 4. Examples of such inclusions would be models such as the M2 Competition, the Mugen DC5 Integra Type R, the Nissan R34 GT-R Z-Tune and the BMW E36 M3 Lightweight, amongst others. With each of these vehicles I've striven to create the most faithful and accurate in-game representation, according to the information I can find online. There are, also, some in-game cars that I've excluded. This includes the Hot Wheels vehicles, LEGO vehicles, Hoonigan and Formula Drift vehicles (and some other race-specific vehicles). So in total my car list sits at just under 700 cars.

It goes without saying that Forza is a game, so I can't judge the cars beyond a certain level. That having been said, I do think the game gives a great feel when it comes to individual cars, so I'm basing my test on how much I enjoy driving each vehicle within the scope of each category. I'll also mention that my predictions are based on available vehicles in the game. My real-world dream garage would be along similar lines but slightly different.

So... that's really it. Once I've narrowed down my car list I'll return to update things with my final contenders for each space in the dream garage before I determine the outright winner in each respect.

As I've said, I've posted this just in case it's of interest to anyone. Feel free to comment below with your own thoughts or suggestions, or with your own dream garage arrangement.
(Or, if you simply feel I'm a complete basket-case then feel free to post that as well - at least my wife will then know that other people share her opinion of me ha ha!)

Edited by user Wednesday, February 17, 2021 5:54:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Amendment to predictions.

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#2 Posted : Tuesday, February 16, 2021 3:11:19 PM(UTC)
Tell your wife, I feel like she is correct.

You need a hobby. Damn man, find something to do with your time.

That being said, I will be working on my own 5/6-car garage now, since I have no wife to think poorly of me. I have an ex for that. lol.
Rank: Racing Permit
#3 Posted : Wednesday, February 17, 2021 6:20:53 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IngoingCake8592 Go to Quoted Post
Tell your wife, I feel like she is correct.

You need a hobby. Damn man, find something to do with your time.

That being said, I will be working on my own 5/6-car garage now, since I have no wife to think poorly of me. I have an ex for that. lol.


Ha ha. The one defence I have is that Forza is cheaper than thrashing actual cars round actual tracks (which is my other hobby).

Let me know what you end up with in your own dream garage - always interested to hear other folks thoughts.
(I should say of course, don't feel confined to my categories. We've all got different dreams which is what makes the automotive community so exciting.)

On a separate note, here's a few garage statistics:

  • There are currently 667 vehicles on my list.
  • The current in-game garage value of these vehicles is 397,899,350 CR, however
  • The calculated value of these vehicles (according to my spreadsheet) is 567,602,000 CR.
    (I believe the in-game garage value calculation ignores duplicate vehicles, which might explain the disparity.)
  • The cost of upgrades incurred in recreating certain model variants is an additional 2,008,350 CR
  • Additional Auction House (AH) expenses are estimated at a further 350,000,000 CR.

Where possible, vehicles were purchased brand new from the Autoshow. Any vehicles not available via the Autoshow were either purchased in the AH or won through meeting specific requirements. AH expenses are estimated as I didn't record the specific purchase price of each AH vehicle. On the whole I tried to avoid cheaper AH listings and instead went for listings that more accurately represented the current market value of each vehicle. (It goes without saying that you could get almost every vehicle, including Autoshow vehicles, for considerably less than what I paid however I was interested to see how much it would cost to purchase every vehicle at full retail value.)

So in total this challenge has set me back around 820,000,000 credits.

Interestingly:

  • The average vehicle value (going by my spreadsheet calculation) is 850,977 CR, whereas
  • The average cost of acquisition was around 1,255,539 CR.
  • The most valuable car (according to the in-game stats) is the Ferrari 250 GTO, whereas
  • The most expensive car to acquire was the Ferrari 812 Superfast.
    (There's a few cars with 20m buyout prices but some of these cars can fluctuate. The 812 is consistently listed at maximum buyout price.)
  • The least valuable car on my list is a little harder to calculate. There's more than a few cars with an in-game value of 20,000 CR so I had a look at the AH to see which of them had the lowest possible Buyout Price. Unfortunately, there's still a few of them competing for bottom place with a lowest Buyout price of 13,000 CR. I may wait and see which of them sells for the least amount.

Now the difference between the average vehicle value and the average cost of acquisition is a little skewed given that I bought every available Autoshow car at the full Autoshow price. The inflated AH price of exclusive vehicles would likely have been offset by the reduced AH price of Autoshow vehicles.

Edited by user Thursday, February 18, 2021 12:38:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Added some more statistics.

Rank: Racing Permit
#4 Posted : Wednesday, February 17, 2021 12:53:10 PM(UTC)
So I've now surpassed my second milestone for the challenge (the first milestone being the acquisition of every vehicle for the test).

The second milestone was to test-drive each vehicle and identify it's potential place(s) in my dream garage.
(I should mention that this little project was well underway by the time I posted about it - I haven't rattled through 667 cars in 24 hours!)

The results are as follows:

  • Daily Driver - 127 vehicles.
  • Roadtrip - 98 vehicles.
  • Date night - 42 vehicles.
  • Weekend Fun - 277 vehicles.
  • Track Toy - 218 vehicles.
  • Garage Dream - 60 vehicles.


This means that 229 vehicles have been removed from consideration with 438 vehicles still in the running.
The next stage is to whittle down these results until I'm left with my top five for each category.

I'm not overly surprised at the number of results for the Weekend Fun and Track Toy categories. As far as Weekend Fun is concerned, I've tried to be open-minded about whether that fun will take place on tarmac or on a good dirt trail, and about whether I'll be driving something modern or something more classic. It also goes without saying that each category considers vehicles which offer automotive enjoyment within a game also centred around automotive enjoyment.

As it is there's a few more statistics which I'm interested in calculating. I'll include them in my next update.

Edited by user Friday, February 19, 2021 4:44:55 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Amendment to vehicle numbers.

Rank: Racing Permit
#5 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2021 4:26:55 AM(UTC)
So I calculated a few more statistics:

  • The average model year across all 667 vehicles is 1993.
  • The average model year of the the 229 eliminated vehicles is 1979, therefore
  • the average model year of the 438 vehicles still being tested is 2001.

The oldest model year still being considered is the 1955 Porsche 550A. This vehicle is currently being considered for the Garage Dream space.
The newest model year to be eliminated is the 2019 Rimac Concept 2. This vehicle didn't quite make it onto the Garage Dream shortlist.

In terms of garage value, here's the impact:

  • The combined value of the eliminated vehicles is 421,794,000 CR, with
  • the average value being 1,841,895 CR.

  • The combined value of vehicles still in the running is 145,808,000 CR, with
  • the average value being 332,894 CR.

Put another way, the average value of a vehicle which I'm no longer considering is almost six times that of one which still holds significant appeal. Typically, I would attribute such an outcome to be the result of personal preference however I then noticed the average model years of both groups of vehicles. Interestingly, the average model year for vehicles of interest (to me) is 2001. This ties in with the growing real-world popularity of vehicles from the late-90's and early-2000's. As a result, I'm now questioning whether we might see a re-balance of vehicle values in future Forza games going as automotive trends continue?

Edited by user Thursday, February 18, 2021 4:30:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Fixed a typo.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2021 4:30:08 AM(UTC)
What criteria are you testing against Alasdair? It is a “feel” test when driving them or something more scientific?
Rank: Racing Permit
#7 Posted : Thursday, February 18, 2021 4:33:44 AM(UTC)
For the purposes of my dream garage it's entirely subjective.

I have taken objective measurements though for other projects across a wide-range of metrics.
Rank: Racing Permit
#8 Posted : Tuesday, February 23, 2021 4:51:38 AM(UTC)
Ok, it's time for the next update.

I decided to start the 'whittling-down' process with the Date Night category - partly because it was the smallest group of cars and partly because it's the group least likely to influence, or be influenced by, my choices in other categories.

For the purposes of this test, I created a blueprint route from Ambleside Village up to Fairlawn Manor (share code 236 472 050, entitled "Dinner at Fairlawn Manor") to replicate a gentle, evening drive.

So, here are my top 5 vehicles along with a few statistics of interest:

  • Aston Martin DB11
  • Audi R8 Coupe (1st Generation)
  • Bentley Continental GT
  • Ferrari F12 Berlinetta
  • Mercedes Benz SLS AMG


Of the 42-vehicles being considered:

  • 20 had 8-cylinder engines,
  • 14 had 12-cylinder engines,
  • 5 had 6-cylinder engines,
  • 1 vehicle had a 10-cylinder engine,
  • 1 vehicle had a 4-cylinder engine, and
  • 1 vehicle was electric.


  • The average in-game value of my top five vehicles is 282,400 CR, with
  • The highest value vehicle being the Ferrari F12 Berlinetta (380,000 CR), and
  • The lowest value vehicle being the Mercedes SLS AMG (200,000 CR)

I'll be interested to see how these numbers compare against the other categories.

Testing the cars led also to a few interesting discoveries (about what I like and don't like).

Given the "date night" role of the vehicle, I found myself turning down the more performance-oriented variants of certain vehicles. Four of the vehicles in my top-five (namely the Aston Martin DB11, the Audi R8, the Bentley Continental and the Ferrari F12) have newer and higher performance versions available in-game. One aspect that put me off these higher-performance versions was the detrimental impact on the vehicle's beauty - you do start to lose some of the elegant design when you throw on canards, spoilers, additional vents and chin-splitters.

So that leaves me with my first top-five of the project.

I think I'll now focus on the Roadtrip category.

Edited by user Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:01:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Added Blueprint details.

Rank: Racing Permit
#9 Posted : Saturday, February 27, 2021 3:18:02 PM(UTC)
So the Roadtrip category has now been whittled down.

I'll begin by saying that this category proved to be surprisingly difficult - there were some real fire-crackers in the group and it was rather challenging deciding between which ones to keep and which ones to leave behind. Again, I created a blueprint for the purposes of testing (share code 884 873 848, entitled "Summer Roadtrip to Astmoor Inn"). The route combines some of my favourite roads on the mainland with a perfect summer's day.

As it is, here are my top 5 vehicles:

  • Audi R8 V10+
  • Ferrari 488 Pista
  • Lamborghini Aventador SV
  • Mercedes AMG GT-R
  • Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 (997)

Along with this top-five comes the first real upset of my challenge in that my predicted winner (the Lamborghini Huracan Performance) didn't make it to one of the top five slots. (Truth be told it didn't even make it into the top ten.) The blame for this lies in equal measure, I suppose, with both the Lamborghini Aventador SV and the Audi R8 V10+. The Audi felt more composed and settled whilst still offering the same V10 experience whereas the Aventador just felt... more Lambo. Some might suggest that being able to straddle both experiences should render the Huracan the default winner but the real freedom of this category is the option to really pursue that sense of focused perfection in whichever direction one might choose. Unfortunately, that means that the Huracan loses out to each car, albeit for it totally different reasons.

I'd also like to give a few honourable mentions to the Noble M600, the Alpine A110 and the Alfa Romeo 4C. The Alpine and the Alfa both punched well above their weight in terms of supercar enjoyment. For cars with less than 1800cc engines, the driving thrill they offer is remarkable. As for the Noble? Well it was really the dark horse of the group and very narrowly missed out on making it into the top five. It's only real shortcomings were a dated interior and a relative lack of "badge allure". Some might question whether "badge allure" is a worthwhile consideration but, in my opinion, it's somewhat unavoidable. Names like Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche will inevitably generate more excitement and so the allure of driving a car from one of these marques on a dream road trip is something that must be considered. When you combine this appeal with the individual merits of the vehicles listed above, the case becomes rather compelling and, unfortunately, the Noble just lost out.

Now for some statistics:

  • The average in-game value of my top five vehicles is 293,400 CR, with
  • the most expensive being the Lamborghini Aventador SV (480,000 CR), and
  • the least expensive being the Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 (200,000 CR).

  • The average horsepower of the top five vehicles is 626 hp, with
  • the most powerful being the Lamborghini Aventador SV (740 hp), and
  • the least powerful being the Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 (493 hp).

A V8 was, by far, the most common engine layout in the group, with almost equal numbers of vehicles with 12 and 6 cylinders thereafter. Amongst the group were 8 vehicles with V10 engines, 3 vehicles with 4-cylinder engines, and 2 vehicles with 3-cylinder engines (although technically the BMW i8 and i8 Roadster are variants of the same vehicle).

Next on the list is the Track category.

Edited by user Saturday, February 27, 2021 11:23:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Included Blueprint event.

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Sunday, February 28, 2021 1:03:00 AM(UTC)
So I started going through my own and noticed we may have different definitions for the categories. No matter, it's all highly personal anyway.

I am doing hugely subjective sweeps in narrowing down my selection, since hey, it's not just about the drive anyway. I'm also basing these off of stock performance which knocks a lot of amazing cars out of the running. To make up for that, I might offer some as modded alternatives.

So for Daily Driver, I imagine this as my everyday car, suitable for if I only had one car, and fitting to my current lifestyle (kids...lol) So fun, but high in utility, might even end up as an SUV.
Road trip car to me is like a vacation. So it needs to be able to hold a little luggage and be comfortable to drive for long periods. So as awesome as Lambos are, I think I would lose feeling in my legs if I had to pull 6 hours in one.
Date Night also related to me being older. As sweet as it would be to pull up in a Ferrari Pista...if she can't get in the damn thing, and I'm struggling to get out of it...kinda kills the mood for the date.
Weekend Fun is where the real road burner is. No need for utility. Find back roads, switchbacks, hill climbs, etc. Return to the real world after.
Track Toys kinda stuck me a little. They are dedicated machines. But are they mind-numbingly fast near-race cars...or happy track burners like the KTM...or any of the fine off-road selections. Still not sure.
Garage Dream - still would want to drive it...but by no means flog it. This one is to be babied, pampered, shown off, and looked at more than used.

So my first guesses are as follows:

1. Daily Driver- 2011 Audi RS3 Switchback
2. Road Trip Car- 2018 Dodge Challenger Demon
3. Date Night - 2013 Bentley Continental GT Speed (can't deny the sheer class of a Bentley)
4. Weekend Fun - 2019 McLaren 720S Spider (topless, baby)
5. Track Toy - 2014 Porsche 918 Spyder
6. Garage Dream - 1956 Jaguar D-Type (this might not even make it to a driving test...it has been a fav of mine for a lifetime.)
Rank: Racing Permit
#11 Posted : Sunday, February 28, 2021 10:45:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IngoingCake8592 Go to Quoted Post

So for Daily Driver, I imagine this as my everyday car, suitable for if I only had one car, and fitting to my current lifestyle (kids...lol) So fun, but high in utility, might even end up as an SUV.
Road trip car to me is like a vacation. So it needs to be able to hold a little luggage and be comfortable to drive for long periods. So as awesome as Lambos are, I think I would lose feeling in my legs if I had to pull 6 hours in one.
Date Night also related to me being older. As sweet as it would be to pull up in a Ferrari Pista...if she can't get in the damn thing, and I'm struggling to get out of it...kinda kills the mood for the date.
Weekend Fun is where the real road burner is. No need for utility. Find back roads, switchbacks, hill climbs, etc. Return to the real world after.
Track Toys kinda stuck me a little. They are dedicated machines. But are they mind-numbingly fast near-race cars...or happy track burners like the KTM...or any of the fine off-road selections. Still not sure.
Garage Dream - still would want to drive it...but by no means flog it. This one is to be babied, pampered, shown off, and looked at more than used.

So my first guesses are as follows:

1. Daily Driver- 2011 Audi RS3 Switchback
2. Road Trip Car- 2018 Dodge Challenger Demon
3. Date Night - 2013 Bentley Continental GT Speed (can't deny the sheer class of a Bentley)
4. Weekend Fun - 2019 McLaren 720S Spider (topless, baby)
5. Track Toy - 2014 Porsche 918 Spyder
6. Garage Dream - 1956 Jaguar D-Type (this might not even make it to a driving test...it has been a fav of mine for a lifetime.)


I'd say your definitions are spot on and very close to my own thinking. Loved this bit in particular:

Originally Posted by: IngoingCake8592 Go to Quoted Post
Weekend Fun is where the real road burner is. No need for utility. Find back roads, switchbacks, hill climbs, etc. Return to the real world after.


As for your selections - some great cars there!
Rank: Racing Permit
#12 Posted : Tuesday, March 2, 2021 1:25:56 AM(UTC)
So I've decided to amend my top five for the Roadtrip category - I keep coming back and questioning my decision to exclude the Noble. The Mercedes AMG GT-R is now out and the Noble M600 is in.

Here's my amended top five along with the amended statistics:

  • Audi R8 V10+
  • Ferrari 488 Pista
  • Lamborghini Aventador SV
  • Noble M600
  • Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 (997)

    That brings:

  • the average in-game value up to 324,400 CR, with
  • the most expensive still being the Lamborghini Aventador SV (480,000 CR), and
  • the least expensive still being the Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 (200,000 CR).

  • The average horsepower of the top five vehicles is now 640 hp, with
  • the most powerful still being the Lamborghini Aventador SV (740 hp), and
  • the least powerful still being the Porsche 911 GT3 RS 4.0 (493 hp).


Aside from that I'm still working on my Track category.

Notification

Icon
Error