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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#76 Posted : Thursday, February 11, 2021 3:34:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Carguy0073621 Go to Quoted Post
I think I’m he f5 dually introduces the possibility of a regular dually truck.


Not that I think they’ll add any other duallies into the game, as much fun as one can have with those pompous earth killing machines, it’s interesting to see this might be the first dually utilized within the game beyond going 25 mph for the Top Gear story. Wonder if there will be single or double tire marks.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#77 Posted : Thursday, February 11, 2021 3:36:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BiaxialWriter0 Go to Quoted Post
Nice looking pack. I'm glad I paid for the Ultimate Edition so I could get every car pack for free as promised, which is always nice.










Oh wait...


I was gonna say, it definitely doesn’t promise that. But then you said oh wait.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#78 Posted : Thursday, February 11, 2021 1:43:41 PM(UTC)
Existing cars, re-tuned or something is not a car pack. Enjoy the same cars all over again.
It's just filling a void and covering for the fact that they are on life support.

The only thing forza marketing teams will see from me this year is the smell of my melted credit card which i used to order a PS5.
Notify me when this game gets delisted so that i can buy( the cheap licensed to PG, only ones that they can afford) cars at it's real value, 60%-80% off.

Trust me you just need to play the game and at the end just get the car packs.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#79 Posted : Thursday, February 11, 2021 3:04:44 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: John Which Go to Quoted Post
Existing cars, re-tuned or something is not a car pack. Enjoy the same cars all over again.
It's just filling a void and covering for the fact that they are on life support.

The only thing forza marketing teams will see from me this year is the smell of my melted credit card which i used to order a PS5.
Notify me when this game gets delisted so that i can buy( the cheap licensed to PG, only ones that they can afford) cars at it's real value, 60%-80% off.

Trust me you just need to play the game and at the end just get the car packs.


What? Not only don't these cars exist in the game, but there is nothing even closely similar in the game.
Rank: X-Class Racing License
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#80 Posted : Thursday, February 11, 2021 3:27:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: John Which Go to Quoted Post
Existing cars, re-tuned or something is not a car pack. Enjoy the same cars all over again.
It's just filling a void and covering for the fact that they are on life support.

The only thing forza marketing teams will see from me this year is the smell of my melted credit card which i used to order a PS5.
Notify me when this game gets delisted so that i can buy( the cheap licensed to PG, only ones that they can afford) cars at it's real value, 60%-80% off.

Trust me you just need to play the game and at the end just get the car packs.


What? Not only don't these cars exist in the game, but there is nothing even closely similar in the game.


New user, very few posts, most of them bashing the game or PG/T10. Probably just a Sony fan and/or troll. Best to ignore them.
Rules of troubleshooting:
1) Have you tried turning it off and on again?
2) Is your Internet working?
3) https://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-live-status < Check here for service issues.
4) If all else fails open a service ticket and/or forum post.

Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#81 Posted : Thursday, February 11, 2021 8:46:28 PM(UTC)
Heh, I hated on it but my completionist obsession might end up making me purchase it.

Well, the Dually is cool at least.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#82 Posted : Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:28:25 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Stang616 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: John Which Go to Quoted Post
Existing cars, re-tuned or something is not a car pack. Enjoy the same cars all over again.
It's just filling a void and covering for the fact that they are on life support.

The only thing forza marketing teams will see from me this year is the smell of my melted credit card which i used to order a PS5.
Notify me when this game gets delisted so that i can buy( the cheap licensed to PG, only ones that they can afford) cars at it's real value, 60%-80% off.

Trust me you just need to play the game and at the end just get the car packs.


What? Not only don't these cars exist in the game, but there is nothing even closely similar in the game.


New user, very few posts, most of them bashing the game or PG/T10. Probably just a Sony fan and/or troll. Best to ignore them.


I was talking about the rehashed cars you were given till now, as part of the packs. Not via seasons.
Playing the game starting FM1, dude. And no, PS5 is my first playstation ever. GT will be may first game for PS that i will buy.
Had 360 and the original Xbox. I have a job and just a lurker here. Almost level 14 in forza rewards.

If you like it that much go buy it. It's your money(that they want given you less in return)
https://imgur.com/a/k1JaYdG

Edited by user Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:31:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#83 Posted : Saturday, February 13, 2021 12:11:12 PM(UTC)
Has anyone ever Considered the Possibility that Paying for the Hot Wheels Pack even if You are an Ultimate Edition Owner might have, Potentially, been a Mattel Decision?
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#84 Posted : Saturday, February 13, 2021 7:13:06 PM(UTC)
Would it be possible to request the base cars for these hot wheels edition cars be added as well? All but the 2 Jet Z are models of cars that are not in the game at all and would be interesting additions to the game. I like the hot wheels edition cars but I would also like to have a Nash Metropolitan to run around with the other mini cars in the game.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#85 Posted : Saturday, February 13, 2021 9:37:39 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: markvii1 Go to Quoted Post
Would it be possible to request the base cars for these hot wheels edition cars be added as well? All but the 2 Jet Z are models of cars that are not in the game at all and would be interesting additions to the game. I like the hot wheels edition cars but I would also like to have a Nash Metropolitan to run around with the other mini cars in the game.


Before I say anything else, I do think your suggestion is a good one... However having said that, the Nash for example has had its body body modified quite a bit from what 'stock' would be, and so in essence your request would require a completely new, and different in game model, all that before we even talk about a stock version of the Ford Duelly, Luv or IH truck.



Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#86 Posted : Saturday, February 13, 2021 11:25:22 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: King Cobra Mi6 Go to Quoted Post
Has anyone ever Considered the Possibility that Paying for the Hot Wheels Pack even if You are an Ultimate Edition Owner might have, Potentially, been a Mattel Decision?


No.

Why would Mattel care what you do with your money, be it spent on the Ultimate Edition, Gamespot shares, or 17 cases of the best Lebanese jallab this side of Beirut? Mattel likely got paid a long time ago for licensing; it's possible they may also get a percentage from sales of licensed DLC, but it seems more likely that PG serve their own interests first when making income-generating decisions.

And let's pretend Mattel did make or have some part in some decision; the details of some profit-sharing agreement between Mattel and PG is absolutely none of your business. Whether the content is a standalone, optional, dlc with small fee (in which scores of children will cry over, "They're forcing us to pay for this extra dlc" or whatever grievance), or if this particular set of content got wrapped into the UE (to which scores of salty and chronically dissatisfied purist adults will cry over, "They're forcing us to accept this objectionable dlc as part of the package" or whatever grievance, at least this way people have the option to take it or leave it.

Personally, I hate the way they laid out content delivery in H4. I like car packs. I like DLC. I love getting a nice, fat helping of brand new Joy every so often that I can obsess over and tune at my convenience. This slow drip-drip-drip of content exclusives at an uneven, irregular rate is the only part of timegating I have a problem with. If it's going to be game updates as a service or whatever it's called, then it needs to be a true dedicated service that is clear and reliable. Players should be able to set their watch to it. Anyway, car packs - I want them. I crave themed packs. And they don't even have to be the Sexy OP Pack Series, I would love an old Junky Jalopy or 70's Gas Guzzler pack – even a stinky Flip Flop pack featuring the Ford Pinto & Chevy Chevette would be enjoyed.

Glad to have another opportunity to get a pack again; maybe PG will put it towards adding a new coder. Or a web designer. 🙄🖥⚠
Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#87 Posted : Sunday, February 14, 2021 12:20:00 PM(UTC)
I think You have Misunderstood Me Squryl!

The Licencing Partner in Question is a Business at the End of the Day, and well, Businesses, no matter who they are, Be they EA, Mattel, whoever, these Days, do *not* Like You Spending Your Money on anything that is not Made by them or made under Licence to them, they only want You to spend Your Money on their Business, If You are Spending it on Gamespot Shares or Lebanese jallbab, You are not Spending it on their Business and its Products, and "The Suits" do Not like that Idea very Much! What was it Jim Stirling Said "They are Not Content with just some of the Money, they want All of the Money Now!" ?

You see, It is just that, if it is, Potentially, a Case of "PG First" like You Pointed Out ...why was Barret-Jackson put into the Car Pass? Why was Welcome Pack put into Car Pass (Not that I Approved of Welcome Pack as I think it is Wrong to Charge for "Tuned" Versions of Cars that are already in the Game!) why was Mitsubishi made Free for *all* Users? why is it Only the Hot Wheels Pack that has not been Included in the Car Pass?

It just makes Me Question, that's all, Especially Given that Mattel has a, Shall we Say? "Less than Stellar" Reputation... But I will also admit I do have something of an Anti-Mattel Bias at the Moment and that I am *Extremely* Angry with them over *That* Cal-Arts Deboot Abomination that they Recently Revealed... for Goodness Sakes! Just get Britt Allcroft out of Retirement, Re-Open Shepperton Studios, Set the Hornby 00 Gauge Train Set back Up, make some new Claymation Faces, bring back the Voice of Ringo Starr and get things back to how they Should be! Either way, it has still made Me, Personally, Question if the, IMO, Actually Quite Justified Eruption of Anger over the Business Model used on this Car Pack from the Community is being Aimed at the Correct Party.

True, it is Up to Playground, Turn 10, Microsoft and their Licencing Partners what Business Model they Use! We do not have a Say in the Matter, it is a Boardroom Decision, to try and Interfere with those Decisions is Entitled at best, and some much Harsher Words at Worst! However, as Paying Consumers We do have a Right to Moan like Mansell Stuck in a Jet Engine if We do Not like the Business Model that has been Settled On in the, admittedly Vain, Hope that it will not be used again in any Future Titles!

Now, On the Live Services Model the Game Has, Personally, I do *not* like Live Services, at all, and I Especially Dislike the Time Gates and the Skill Gates that are Featured in Horizon 4, I consider them Extremely Anti-Consumer and Highly Elitist, because the Skill Caps lock Less able Gamers out of quite a Fair bit of Game Content, I am Fortunate that I Can Compete at Highly Skilled (and even Expert, although competing at Expert did cause Me more than One Frustration Induced Meltdown, So I was very Glad when the Skill Gate was Lowered to Highly Skilled), although I am more Comfortable at "Average" , I have Friends who Cannot Compete up at Highly Skilled, Meaning, as I cannot get round to their Places to do the Championships for them for Obvious Reasons, they are having to get the Exclusives via the Auction House! it is *Most Unfair* in My Personal Opinion!

I also get very annoyed at how Inconsistent the Drip Feed has become, some Months its 7 Cars, sometimes 3, now down to 2! it is Getting Ridiculous! only 2 New "Playlist" Cars for an Entire Month?that, IMO, is a bit of a Bad Joke! At least Paid DLC was Consistent, 7 to 10 Cars Per Pack, 12 Packs, 6 in Car Pass, 6 On Top. You knew when You were getting Cars and how Many You could get, I have to grant You that.

It should, indeed, be Reliable! 8 to 10 Cars Per Month, Without Fail. Updated at 4:30 PM UK Time on the Tuesday in the Games Spring Season, Without Fail, any and All "Premium" DLC to be Included in the Ultimate Edition with No. Exceptions! and the "Live Services" Cars made available in a way that allows Players to Either A. Earn them for Free in Playlist, or B, Purchase them Immediately with *No* Time or Skill Gate Hoops for an In Game Credit Fee from the Autoshow!

if they have to do "Live Services" for FH5, then, IMO, it Should be like the System I outlined Above!

Yet, as much as I Dislike Live Services. I also Severely Dislike Paid DLC, as I Personally consider it to be Greedy, and thus, Also Anti-Consumer. People have already Paid for the Game, and £60-100 is a *Lot* Of Money! Especially when Someone is on Universal Credit! so Asking People to Pay again on Top, In My Personal Opinion, is just being Greedy!

In an Ideal World, Games would be Launched *Complete* like they used to be in the Days when Consoles did not have Internet on them, and even the Best Gaming PC in the World (Yer Dads!) was only Running 56K Dial Up and was not Fast Enough for DLC to be Viable! , because, back then, You actually got Your Money's Worth! You Paid Your Price, and You got a *Complete* Product in Return! No Live Services, No Paid DLC, Nothing, Maybe a *Stand Alone* Expansion Pack if You were Lucky! and I for one Want to see a Return to those Days as then Consumers would get their Money's Worth from their Games!

I do however, *Prefer* Paid DLC over Live Services, because at Least Paid DLC did *not* Lock Cars up Behind Skill Gates that Leave lesser Skilled and/or Some Disabled Gamers unable to get them unless they are lucky enough to get one from the Auction House. You Paid Your Money, You got Your Cars, It was Greedy, but it was at Least Fair.

I would Sooner have Paid DLC over Live Services with Time and Skill Gates, as Paid DLC was and is more Fair, but I would much rather have a *Complete Game at Launch* again than have Paid DLC!

I Hope that explains My Views on Live Services Vs Paid DLC. I Like Neither! and I consider them Both Symptoms of the General Malaise that has Ruined AAA Gaming!

If we had to have a Chevette, I would much rather have the Vauxhall 2300HS Version!

Yes, I do see both Arguments of it should be in the Car Pass" On One Hand and "Ugh, not *more* Toys! make something for us Grown ups for Once!" on the Other, and to be Honest, I am in Two Minds, as a Paying Consumer I am very much in the "It Should be in the Ultimate Edition" Camp, I mean, Ultimate Edition was £100! that's a Full Month of Universal Credit for Me! I really do consider it downright...for want of a Better, less Childlike, Word... "Wrong" ! to be made to Pay again on top of a Price that is, as Far as I am Personally Concerned at Least, already too High for a Game that, even after more than Two Years since Launch, has, Due to its "Live Services" Content Model, Not given Me, In My Own Personal Opinion at least, anywhere Near £100 worth of Content as I *Still* do not Yet have the *Full Game* that I Paid for and that I would have had over 12 Months Ago at this Point with, Say, Forza Horizon 2!

Yet, as someone who Does *Not* like How Childish Horizon 4 has Become and how much it has Chased the "Fortnite" Trend of Cartoonising Everything (I should have taken FH3's Hot Wheels Expansion as a Warning to Stay away...Hindsight is always 20/20 Vision..) I also consider the Hot Wheels Cars, even though they are all based on Real World Custom Cars built for the Legends Tour, to be a bit Objectional! the Game has Enough "Toy" Cars as it is IMO! I would much rather have Factory Stock Equivalents ( 1954 Nash Metropolitan, 1957 Studebaker Golden Hawk R2, 1966 International Harvester C-100, 1972 Chevrolet Light Utility Vehicle, and a 2020 Raesr Tachyon Speed instead of the 2JetZ as there is no Factory Stock Equivalent of the 2JetZ) of the Featured Vehicles as they would be more Interesting to Me as a Virtual Collector.

It is True that making this DLC Completely Separate does give Us a Choice of taking it or Leaving it. As someone who Plays Horizon to Collect *all* of the Games Vehicles, (as I Cannot Engage in the Multiplayer side of the Game as Online Multiplayer causes a *lot* Of issues with My Own Personal Variant of ASD.. (#ActuallyAutistic) collecting all the Vehicles is how I get My "Moneys Worth" from them) I will Probably end up buying the DLC just So I can get All of the Games Cars, even though I am not a Fan of the Cars in Said DLC ... but I also feel I should not *Have* to Pay for it as I already Spent £100 on the Game and £100 is a *lot* Of Money! the Pack Should be in the Car Pass IMO, to charge Again on Top, In My Personal Opinion, is just...WRONG!!


Rank: C-Class Racing License
#88 Posted : Sunday, February 14, 2021 9:35:20 PM(UTC)
this pack iz free with the ultimate edition rite yay
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#89 Posted : Sunday, February 14, 2021 9:49:41 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ritemare Go to Quoted Post
this pack iz free with the ultimate edition rite yay


As far as mentioned it’s not included.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#90 Posted : Monday, February 15, 2021 1:49:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ritemare Go to Quoted Post
this pack iz free with the ultimate edition rite yay



🤦🏻‍♂️ No, not "yay." C'mon, man; keep up.
This is made clear in the very first post in this thread as well as hashed out further in subsequent posts:



Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post

Price: $10 for all players (not included with Ultimate Edition or Car Pass)

"Once the pack is purchased, you are granted a one-time only, free addition of each car to your Forza Horizon 4 garage, with no additional in-game credit cost. Not included with the Forza Horizon4 Car Pass, Standard, Deluxe or Ultimate Editions." (Store description)
Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#91 Posted : Monday, February 15, 2021 2:37:58 AM(UTC)
And there is no date when this pack of cars will appear?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#92 Posted : Monday, February 15, 2021 2:40:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ritemare Go to Quoted Post
this pack iz free with the ultimate edition rite yay



🤦🏻‍♂️ No, not "yay." C'mon, man; keep up.
This is made clear in the very first post in this thread as well as hashed out further in subsequent posts:



Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post

Price: $10 for all players (not included with Ultimate Edition or Car Pass)

"Once the pack is purchased, you are granted a one-time only, free addition of each car to your Forza Horizon 4 garage, with no additional in-game credit cost. Not included with the Forza Horizon4 Car Pass, Standard, Deluxe or Ultimate Editions." (Store description)


god i am cheap

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#93 Posted : Monday, February 15, 2021 4:39:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: King Cobra Mi6 Go to Quoted Post
I think You have Misunderstood Me Squryl!


Respectfully, I'm not so sure. "Has anyone considered the possibility that for-profit corporations act like for-profit corporations?" may be a better way of asking the same question. So they are trying to generate some income? Okay. Players have been buying the same sort of DLC content in both franchises for years, never mind across gaming in general. Personally speaking, it was seeing all the supplemental content available that drew me in to Forza to begin with. Packs of various cars add so much more value as an add-on to a game than, say, an alternate costume or dancing emote.

As to the the other packs, I don't know why certain decisions were made. Regardless of what we think about them, the pre-tuned "collection" packs are irrelevant as they were never intended for you and me to begin with; they are intended for and targeted at brand new players. Mitsubishi, as I understand it, was to be available at launch but got held up for whatever reason. That sort of thing just happens sometimes; I'm sure you recall VW pulling out of H3 over the emissions scandal, for example. We don't know the Mitsubishi details, but perhaps that car pack's price tag of FREE was just a gesture of good will? By the same token, however, do you also believe Mitsubishi conspired to charge us all $0? Oh, what a dastardly scheme that was! They really showed us! 🙄 Maybe things have simply changed since H4's launch? Much has happened since then (covid-19, Fable, etc.), and like any business perhaps PG just made whatever decision they felt necessary? When questioning decisions made, it's good to keep in mind that we still don't know how long the continued support/life of this game will be, and that obviously they do and that undisclosed schedule may very well have a significant impact on things going forward, whatever they may be and despite whether we are aware of them or not. There is no need to conspiracy theorize everything that ever happens — I'll just leave that there at that, interpret however you like.

I've no interest in relitigating time-gating or skill-gating, nor is this even the place. Further, I don't understand, at all, what you're going on about with the 'complete' games part. First of all, leave my father out of this – and don't presume to know my age and/or me and/or anything about my father's experiences. But second and more seriously, why 'complete?' Because it just suits you? Should they also never send updates to fix bugs, patches, etc? And yes, dial-up made certain things we enjoy today unfeasible back then, so therefore we shouldn't do them? Last night, I enjoyed a little bit of Netflx after seeing a few new seasons added of shows I missed long ago, but since my father couldn't stream and binge-watch ALIAS twenty years ago, I shouldn't have watched any at all? Isn't that what your saying? Seems a very limited and narrow, never mind archaic, way to do business! "We can do a lot more of something even better today, buuuuutt we ought not to because yesterday we couldn't." Absurd!

I, too, bought the UE, but they were pretty clear as to the contents. I will note that it isn't called the Full Game Edition or Complete Everything Edition. They may still do so and I've seen other games make a final, more comprehensive closing edition when they called it quits – Witcher 3 comes to mind. But UE players got what they paid for, and not wanting others to acquire anything more than what you personally have already paid for, for whatever reason, is a little messed up! If you don't like the content, or if it's existence is offensive you, then not buying it would be my recommendation.

HW versions are not ideal to me, either; I, too, would prefer 'regular' versions and less cartooniness overall. I get you, I totally feel that. I am heartened, at least, by the fact that this group of cars is predominantly older, more classic-oriented (I'm sure there's a better term) with the potential promise of being naturally lower-classed and thus more flexible per PI and class.

Re: Chevettes - Just for nostalgia, really. My mother had a '77 Chevrolet, but that thing broke down all the time, and always during rush hours and bridge openings, so I'd be open to a Vauxhall instead. 😄



(🖥 Buys three more cases of Lebanese jallab online for an even 20 in total.)

Edited by user Monday, February 15, 2021 5:28:50 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Grammar

Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#94 Posted : Monday, February 15, 2021 4:45:40 AM(UTC)
The “Welcome Pack” clearly wasn’t targeted just at new players. I agree it was marketed as such and, initially, I suspect none of us planned to buy it. However, when upon release it became clear that it had one car that was meta for S1 cross country and dirt, one top tier wet S2 option and other cars that were far better than their non WP counterparts, a lot of the core base of players will have purchased them. That will have been entirely intentional - there’s no other reason for the WP cars to differ from their standard equivalents.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#95 Posted : Monday, February 15, 2021 5:03:11 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
The “Welcome Pack” clearly wasn’t targeted just at new players. I agree it was marketed as such and, initially, I suspect none of us planned to buy it. However, when upon release it became clear that it had one car that was meta for S1 cross country and dirt, one top tier wet S2 option and other cars that were far better than their non WP counterparts, a lot of the core base of players will have purchased them. That will have been entirely intentional - there’s no other reason for the WP cars to differ from their standard equivalents.


I know you must know I am well aware of what the WP is, but I was actually referring to the all the 'collection' packs that followed WP, and specifically omitted mentioning WP as I agree with you entirely regarding that. I did incorrectly refer to them as pre-tuned, I've no idea if they are or not, I just co-opted what he called them without thinking.
Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#96 Posted : Monday, February 15, 2021 6:19:28 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
The “Welcome Pack” clearly wasn’t targeted just at new players. I agree it was marketed as such and, initially, I suspect none of us planned to buy it. However, when upon release it became clear that it had one car that was meta for S1 cross country and dirt, one top tier wet S2 option and other cars that were far better than their non WP counterparts, a lot of the core base of players will have purchased them. That will have been entirely intentional - there’s no other reason for the WP cars to differ from their standard equivalents.

Don't most of the core base of players have Ultimate Edition anyway?

Re an earlier comment about for-profit orgs behaving like for-profit orgs, they don't always correctly analyse what will give the most profit in the long term. Gameplay time is a valuable currency in its own right. As an example, in Rocket League, you can buy a thing called Rocket Pass Premium, BUT if you play the game enough, you get back the entirety of the credits you spent on it. The company is buying gameplay time from the players, recognising that a large player base is an incredibly important element of multiplayer games. The payback for them is that multiplayer matchmaking is massively better than FH4's because the majority of players can very quickly get matched in a tight rating range during most of each day. And looking at how their Twitch channel works, it often has literally a thousand times the typical number of viewers of the Forza channel. Why? Because they have drops enabled where you get in-game items in return for your viewing time. They are buying view time. And the payback for them is people will see the high number of viewers the game has, and try it out. It's why I tried it out, before I understood why the viewing figures are as high as they are. And they do all this without any pay to win mechanics, all this extra stuff is cosmetic. These are out of the box, imaginative ways to make profit. FH4's pay to win car pack is dull and unimaginative, and I suspect not the best way to make profit in the long term. They could give it to Ultimate Edition owners for free, and they would want to play the game to try out the new cars. They would get valuable gameplay time from the players. Charging for it might cause a reduction in gameplay time from many Ultimate Edition owners if they don't want to pay for it, but also don't want to be at a competitive disadvantage. And it's pay to win mechanics in a game that doesn't appear to particularly care about providing a good competitive multiplayer experience anyway.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#97 Posted : Monday, February 15, 2021 8:35:57 AM(UTC)
Re an earlier comment before this one as I guess we're just going to talk past or around each other now - I don't disagree with much of what you decided to chime in with, though I'm not sure I see why spending an exorbinant amount of watching Twitch for drops as time payback is comparable to a game without in-game loot. It's also not clear to me where the profit part comes in and for who, however, I've no reason to not believe the poster and will take the poster at his or her word that it is good or benficial game mechanic. Poster is absolutely right about gameplay time being a commodity, and much has been said here in past threads about the time of players not being respected, not just from devs but from other players (by way of quitting team ranked and playground games, for example). Personally, I prefer to spend time playing a game I've invested in rather than watching other people play.

Calling it pay to win mechanics only works if you already have a certain necessary skill level. There's a number of highly skilled people here I admire and have enjoyed chasing after, breeminator comes to mind...and I've bought the critical add-ons, so I'm going to win now, defeat breem? Certainly not! There is a skill level divide, and that's all there is to it. Pay to win is a disingenuous term, pay to get better more accurate.

And a word (a few) on all the completely justified hand-wringing (myself included) over the anticipated op-ness of this car pack...earlier in the thread, Jezza, you said you'd be surprised if there wasn't at least one op car in the pack. I'd be surprised if that number isn't four or five. The Forzas don't do boosts/nitro/whatever its called in-game commonly seen in other racing games and nor do they offer (never offered?) cosmetic/vanity dlc's like skins (who would buy them in a game where liverys are already so integral?). There are no other 'things' in the game, just cars, and more cars is what many (most?) people want and look forward to. But I am sure I am in a small minority of players that would be happy with the Chevette-Pinto Pack I joked about earlier, because that is a pack that few would be interested in. So, desirability is necessary for a dlc pack.

But what if the entire pack was flat-out awful, every car just totally stinking and was useless for anything? Nobody would buy it, those that did would be screaming bloody hell for a refund! "We've been ripped off! "How dare they charge us for useless trash!" "The Ford Pinto doesn't even explode!", and so on. Thus, it's also necessary for a portion of the pack to have a certain degree of result-oriented value. And here we've got a little clutch of cars that are, to some degree, make believe, yes based on real world cars but with a creative license, so transformed and without a true real world counterpart to be tethered...will devs look at that as an open to additional PI 'creativity?'

But then consider H4's oft-criticized service model. For quite a stretch it was one free exclusive after another, with but a single pack post-launch. Great for us, sure, but there was nothing to generate additional sales, until there was just recently. Like that other fellow and I joked, about back in my father's time, except well, it isn't. Dial-up days are gone and brick and mortar retails days are numbered. Games (and music) were notorious for having extremely low profit margins. Chains dedicated to selling 'entertainment' (those that didn't use entertainment as loss leaders to get you in the door for what they really wanted sell you: a new washer/dryer set) would twist themselves into knots, desperate to sell you extra controllers and other accessories (high profit margin items) and presales to get you back in the door for another shot at selling you that controller again because there were no appliances to sell you. Those days of a company being able to survive on cd scratch repair kits as a last second add-on are over. Digital is now. Peripheral sources of income, like dlc in the microsoft store, are crucial and can make the difference of whether or not a certain game gets a follow-up/sequel or not. Hell, projects have been canceled for a lot less!

So, dlc must also be worth a studio's time. My fear is that when you stop and consider the lack of appropriate, traditional dlc we've seen for H4 (not counting the regurgitated stuff), the stunt they pulled with the WP, and what we did get out of the BJ pack (never mind the TT/BS issue they took so long to address at around the midway point), I fear all of that was just prologue, setting us up for the Mother of Everything OP Pack.

I'm not saying any of that is particularly ideal, or that there isn't a better way, but we're talking a 10 buck addition to something I presume people here are passionate about. A night at the cinema (back in the good ol' pre-pandemic days) would be $10 a ticket, $20 if a date, $35 if w a drink and popcorn add-ons for both...got two kids? $70-$80 for the night, for one experience. But at least this $10 will get me something I can use over and over again until the cinema opens back up to rip me off in person. People are free to turn up their nose dismissively all they like, be it at a sleazy business model or the incompetent execution or rollout of core features.

But until that something better comes along, this is what we've got right now, it is what it is. Don't like paid dlc? Fine, don't buy any then. 🤷🏻‍♂️ If that's not good enough for someone, and they're really just entirely disatisfied with everything here in general, perhaps they're better off unplugging the damn machine, putting it back in the drawer and go off to find something that generates them some joy...

#perspective

Edited by user Tuesday, February 16, 2021 9:01:56 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Grammar

Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: Driver's Permit
#98 Posted : Tuesday, February 16, 2021 12:40:46 PM(UTC)
The store page now has a release date of February 17th listed. Looks like we could be getting this pack tomorrow.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#99 Posted : Tuesday, February 16, 2021 2:36:13 PM(UTC)
Yes, I think You have Misunderstood.

Again, My Main Reason for asking that question is a Lot of Gamers are Aiming their, IMO, quite Justified Fury at this Pack not being Included in UE or Car Pass, at Playground Games, this, I feel, could Potentially be the Wrong Target, I think Mattel is possibly behind that Decision, Maybe I am Misguided in My Loyalty Here, but I cannot shake the Feeling that had it been Purely a Playground Decision, the HW Pack Probably would have been in the Car Pass, I just think Players are aiming their Anger at the Wrong Party! That is all!

Oh Believe Me, I could rant all Year about the Emotes and the Cosmetics, as I Hate them with a Passion . Cosmetics mainly because it is a Missed Opportunity, they could have gone full on TDU and given us Licenced Fashion Brands and On Map “Clothes Stores” You could Buy them From and add some Lite RPG Mechanics, so making them Unlock via wheelspins (which, IMO, are Basically just another way of Saying “Lootbox”) or Seasonal Championships and making them Stupidly Gimmicky, silly Clown Costumes and Stuff like that, Really angers Me due to the Missed Opportunity.

Emotes are just Banal and Serve very little Purpose, I have had the same Two (“Royal Wave” for Showboat and “From the Heart” for Victory) set for a good 2 Years now. They could have had Potential had they based them on the Celebration Poses of Real World Racing Drivers, Alonso’s Bull Horns, Vettel’s Sideways On Number 1, Ricciardo’s backflip off the Front of the Car, Etc, but just a Bunch of Silly Dances from a “Certain Game that is Popular with the Kids” is Just Infuriating and I would have much rather the Storage Space had gone on some Extra Cars such as a TVR 450 SEAC, Griffith 500, Chimera 5.0 or Cerbera 4.5 Red Rose (’98, I don’t like the later “Tuscan” Nose of the ’99, and Prefer the Early “Jaguar-Esque” Nose of the ‘98) or other such vehicles that do not get anywhere near enough Representation in Gaming.

I also have no Idea why Certain Packs were made.

Again, I feel Welcome Pack could have been done a lot Better, I know it was to give Brand New Players a Leg Up, but I Still Feel “Pre Tuned” Cars was the Wrong way to Go, IMO they could have Created a Pack that would give Players a Leg Up, but also appealed More to Established Gamers, by Giving Players 8 All New Cars, rather than Pre Tuned Ones. Such as Say, a Ferrari 348 Competizione instead of the F50GT, The Jeep Grand Wagoneer instead of the CJ5, the Gymkhana 3 OMSE Fiesta World Rally Cross Car instead of the Gymkhana 9 Focus RS RX, Bringing back the Ford GTX1 Roadster from FH1 instead of the Current Ford GT, bringing back the FJ40 Land Cruiser from FH3 instead of the Baja Truck, the Subaru GC8 Impreza WRX STI Type RA 275 Prodrive (1995- You know the JDM Only “Homologation” Version of the Impreza Triple 5!) Instead of the VT15R, the Porsche 718 Cayman GT4 instead of the 718 RS 60 and the Aventador SVJ instead of the Pre Tuned Original Aventador, Welcome Pack is a Missed Opportunity, as they could have gone with all new Cars that would have made the pack less Controversial , would have had more appeal to Established Users, *and* would have still given Newcomers quite the Head-Start in their Game!

I used Mitsubishi as an Example because, although I am more than aware they were Supposed to be in at Launch but got Dropped due to a last Minute Licencing Hiccup, in the Same way FH3 lost VW due to Dieselgate, I can think of at Least one Publisher who would have *Charged* for those Cars (Cough EA Cough!) , so Playground, in being Pro Consumer and letting us have those Mitsubishi’s for Free, IMO, Just Proved, at least to Me, that they are not as Greedy as Some Players have Recently been accusing them of Being!

No, Quite the Opposite, I am very Pleased with Mitsubishi for allowing Playground to let us have those Cars for Free, as again, I can think of a Few Publishers who would have Charged us for them Instead!

I am aware that the World has Gone Upside down as of late and that means that FH4 is going to have a much Longer than Normal Lifespan due to the fact FH5 has most likely been Delayed by a Couple of Years Now due to the Work on the Fable Reboot, and, indeed, the Whole World being Turned Upside down by the Lurgi! So Support for FH4 will have most likely been Extended.

In One of the Official Live-Streams, the Dev-Build of the Game showed 923 Cars as being in Horizon Promo, so I, Personally, Assume that Updates and Post Release Support will Continue until Playground has given us as Many of those 923 Cars as Licencing Allows, so, about another 2 Years Probably, it is true that Playground is going to need some More Money before then to keep up Development for Far Longer than Expected, its just, I would rather have had a “Serious” (IE like Fortune Island”) Expansion rather than a Silly Hot Wheels Pack! Or Better Still, an *Expandalone* Game like FH2’s Fast and Furious, but with the ability to Transfer FH4’s Expandalone Cars back into FH4 itself. That would, IMO, be a Better use of My Money!

Turning Everything Into a Conspiracy Theory is about the Only way I can keep Going at the Moment I am afraid, it’s the Only way I can make Sense of the Business World.

Trust Me, I can rant All Year about Time and Skill Gates and how I think there should be Legislation against them, but, indeed, this is Neither the Time nor the Place,

Again, You Misinterpreted, I know nothing about You or Your Family, the “Yer Dads” was NOT an Invocation of Your Father, it was a Tongue in Cheek Reference to the Fact that, for Many People who were Young Children in the 1990’s, and Indeed, for Todays Young Children, they Believed and Believe that their Dad had or has the Most Powerful Gaming PC In the World! It was meant as a Bit of Humour at Childlike Viewpoints, not an Invocation of Your Family nor an Insult aimed at them and I apologise for not making that Clear as I am Deeply Sorry that My Comment caused You Offense.

I have No Problem with Bug Fixes and Patches, with How Buggy Games are Now, and with so many Games launching “Broken” Patches and updates are Vital, and more so than Ever Now.

What I mean by “Complete” is, the Game Ships with Every Single Car, Race, Story, Stunt, Mode, basically, every single Piece of Content it is Ever Going to Contain, already in the Install Files. A GOOD. Not a Service. Basically the Same way Forza Motorsport One was Launched, with Every Single Car, Race, and Mode already on the Disk!

Unlike You, I do not Like DLC or Live Services, I liked buying a Game and getting the WHOLE Game! Ie Getting what I Paid For! That is why I buy a Lot of Indie Games, not only do they often have the Gameplay I Like, but they are mostly *Complete* Games, the WHOLE Game is available once the Game comes out of Early Access (which is why I wait until they are Out of Early Access) , so I get what I Paid for! A GOOD! Not a Service.

Would You Tolerate buying a Car and only getting the Monocoque and then having to wait for the Rest of the Car to be Added as a Live Services, or having to Pay, Again, multiple Times, to Buy the Parts needed to Complete the Car You Already Purchased? Well, that is what Live Services and Paid DLC basically are to Me, Buying a Car, and Only getting the Monocoque!

So Yes, You have Misinterpreted. I am not saying People Should not be able to Enjoy Watching Programmes on Netflix or whatever, and I am not saying People should not be able to Patch their Games (as, with so Many Games launching Broken right now, being able to Patch them is Vital to being able to even Enjoy them) what I am saying is, Companies should Stop Selling us just the Monocoque and then Adding the Rest of the Car Later as a Live Service, or Worse, making us Pay again On Top for the Rest of the Car, and just, You know, Sell us the WHOLE CAR right from Go!

Actually, no, they were not Clear on what is in Ultimate Edition, because they do not say *Exactly* what the Car Pass would Contain, and they do not Say *Exactly* what the Two Expansions were going to Be, (and I tell You this, had I known Expansion Two was going to be LEGO before Launch I would *Not* have Purchased the Game! ) nor did they Warn us that the Game was going to Be Live Services (again, had I known before Launch the Game was going to be Live Services I would Not. Have. Purchased. It!) so I Personally think they could have been a Lot more Clear on what was in the Ultimate Edition!

I really wish Microsoft would make “Complete Editions” for when a Game goes End of Support, as then I would be able to Wait and Pick up the Whole Game for a Reduced Price in a Sale, as then I would not be Blowing a Whole Months Universal Credit all in One Go, and I would also get what I Paid For.

Err, I am not trying to Deny Players the chance to Unlock something I have Not, Quite the Opposite in Fact, I am pushing for *Every* Gamer, Regardless of their Skill Level or what they Paid for the Game, to be allowed ALL of the Games Content, I am Pushing for a Future where ALL Games LAUNCH as the “Complete Edition” for no More than £50! In Short I am Pushing for Every Gamer, Regardless of their Skill or the Depths of their Pocket, to, in Exchange for One Transaction of £50! To be able to Get the ENTIRE GAME with all the Content On the Disk or In the Download Right from DAY ONE, with Support Limited Purely to Bug and Glitch Patches, In Short, I am advocating for FAIRER Business Practices and I Fail to see how that is Messed Up!

Again, Had I Known in Advance that FH4 was going to be Live Services and was going to have a Lego Expansion, I most Probably would not have Purchased it, and It is looking very Unlikely Indeed that I will Purchase FH5 as I do not want the Live Services Elements or the Toy Expansion it is Likely to Contain.

Again, I Probably Will Purchase Hot Wheels, as well, I want ALL of the Games Cars… its just I am going to wait until the Pack is a good 50% off in a Sale before I do!

I will admit, I do Appreciate that the Cars in the Pack are Proper Old School Custom Cars (the Nash is Pure 1950s “Gasser” ) and are all Real Cars from the Legends Tours, they are not Strictly Toys, they are more “Grounded” , I do Appreciate that. If I was making FH5, and If I Had to have Hot Wheels, then Yes, I would have those Cars, as, well, at least they are Real Cars that Later became Toys after doing well in the Legends Tour..

Its just, well, I really would like FH4 to be a Lot less Cartoony. FH2 was the best in the Franchise for Me, in that it was very much a Grown Up Car Enthusiasts Game, it just also happened to be Suitable for Kids.. I do not like this Current Direction of Making a Kids Game that is also Suitable for More Open Minded Car Enthusiast.

Personally, Unless a Car is a Pre Order, Welcome Pack or Forza Edition, I leave it Completely Bone Stock, I only change the Paint if I do not like the Stock Colour!

Yes, 1970s Chevrolets were Pretty Infamous for being Completely and Totally and Utterly Hopeless when it came to actually Working, they were America’s answer to British Leyland in that Respect. The Only Real issue the Vauxhalls had is that, like the Chevrolet's, they Rotted Like Pears! But at least they Worked Properly before they Rotted, the Engines also tended to be Bombproof, Very Powerful, Very Easy to Tune, and Easy to Remove, making them Perfect for Putting into a Kit Car! So indeed, I would prefer the Vauxhall over the Chevrolet, More Powerful, they actually Worked Properly, and, in a Game, You do not need to Worry about it literally Rusting so Fast that it Falls to Pieces on the Showroom Forecourt! Plus, My Mum had a Vauxhall when I was in Pre-School, a 1988 Astra (MKII) GT/E 16V with the Digital “Knight Rider” Dash, it was White with a Red Laser Stripe on the Side and with White Bowling Ball Alloys! Sadly, the Rear Arches Rotted out in the End and the Car had to be Scrapped, The Engine Still Survives However as My Grandad Craned it out and Sold it to a Mate who was Building a Caterham JPE Kit Car.. That Kit Car is still Running! So, I also have a Fondness for Vauxhalls from Childhood.

Edited by user Wednesday, February 17, 2021 11:20:31 AM(UTC)  | Reason: One Day I will Perfect the Art of Spelling.

Rank: Driver's License
#100 Posted : Tuesday, February 16, 2021 3:23:52 PM(UTC)
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