Rank: Driver's Permit
#1 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 7:20:55 AM(UTC)
I will make this short. This is the worst racing game on the market. The whole game cheats from the AI to the prizes give out. The Ai have unlimited speed and grip in any kind of weather. The prizes like clothes are useless and some of the cars you get are useless, The customizations and livery are in the stone age. The people that bought this game to get into sim racing are in for a nasty surprise, The developers of this game are idiots.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#2 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 2:51:01 PM(UTC)
Why would you play a game you hate this much for 105 days though?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#3 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 2:55:29 PM(UTC)
Wow, Horizon 4 is among best racing games ever and in many aspects the best. You must played something else I guess.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#4 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 3:01:18 PM(UTC)
Also why would you buy FH4 if you wanted a sim racing game?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#5 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 3:13:03 PM(UTC)
Ok, I'm convinced. We're all in for a nasty surprise. Especially those of you who have been playing for years. Just wait til you find out how bad this game is. (???)

Can someone please let AquaPainter know that the livery system just doesn't work. And those PTG guys too.

I'm going to be busy tonight tuning up an Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale because I'm done stomping the unbeatable AI with my GT40.

Thank you
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#6 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 4:18:37 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Xunseensnipes Go to Quoted Post
I will make this short. This is the worst racing game on the market. The whole game cheats from the AI to the prizes give out. The Ai have unlimited speed and grip in any kind of weather. The prizes like clothes are useless and some of the cars you get are useless, The customizations and livery are in the stone age. The people that bought this game to get into sim racing are in for a nasty surprise, The developers of this game are idiots.


If you cannot win against the AI then i suggest you turn down the difficulty level to "New Racer" instead of "Pro".

If you still cannot win against the AI at "New Racer" then i suggest you don't try and play racing games.

As for cars, they are what you make them. If you run them stock and expect to beat others who have brought tuned cars along, then your in for a flogging to say the least.

A person who plays sim racing should have absolutely no problems playing this game.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#7 Posted : Monday, November 16, 2020 7:09:35 PM(UTC)
Worst on the market, huh?

Playground Games is literally laughing all the way to the bank.

Fascinating to see so many people who clearly hate this game, detest the developers, and hating on it all ad nauseum for not being some other specific game continue to spend an ungodly amount of time playing the hell out of it.
Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#8 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:08:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IngoingCake8592 Go to Quoted Post
Ok, I'm convinced. We're all in for a nasty surprise. Especially those of you who have been playing for years. Just wait til you find out how bad this game is. (???)

Can someone please let AquaPainter know that the livery system just doesn't work. And those PTG guys too.

I'm going to be busy tonight tuning up an Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale because I'm done stomping the unbeatable AI with my GT40.

Thank you


How did my name get into this thread?... because I like the livery editor?

I like the livery editor!
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:31:39 AM(UTC)
Imagine buying Horizon titles for sim racing. Bro you stoned?
Rank: Series Champion
#10 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:27:57 AM(UTC)
Imagine buying any game expecting it to be tailored to your exact needs!

This game has it flaws, i've discussed them with developers at playground. Especially regarding accessibility and guess what, soon after an accessibility option appeared in the main menu. Thing is if you're gonna throw wild claims like "worst game ever" you better A: have something to back it up, and B: expect a response on the games official forums that's not gonna be to your liking!

Edited by user Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:30:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:55:18 AM(UTC)
"New Racer" is sometimes harder than "Expert". Think some Player set to "New Driver" and drive like pros then this feeds the Drivatars. Dont use the most powerful Car, Disable Rewind, Learn to Drive, Keep Cool and most important use your Brakes, wasnt able to beat the AI at beginning. But they make Mistakes or slowdown so wait for it sometimes they brake 100m before finish. Set to harder and do it again, play Online vs PPL this tells you how easy the AI is. Look what Cars they use. Play "Rivals" look how other PPL drive. Then u can beat the AI on "Unbeatable" too. There is some learning curve...
So many Players better but AI is no Problem anymore. The worst part for me is now PPl's Messages "Bla you are Cheating" when u beat them

The Clothes are fillers for the WheelSpins at start when u have everything u get Money/Cars only

I've played >500Hours >72Hours online and there is always something to learn... Tell me some other RacingGame with this amount of Cars wich lets u create own Tracks and so on, its one of the buggiest Games but not the worst
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 5:14:56 AM(UTC)
Easy AI could be hard when you don't react to increase difficulty message. And 1/3 of the race AI is very fast, second 1/3 they are normal and last 1/3 they are slower. It's very unintuitive and not much fun if you don't know it. And there is a catchup too. It could be fun but from sim racing perspective it's very bad because your opponents are able to do WR lap times. It doesn't make any sense for normal racing.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 7:53:49 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post


How did my name get into this thread?... because I like the livery editor?

I like the livery editor!


Sorry AquaPainter, lol. No disrespect intended at all. OP stated the livery creator was in "the stone age" which implied was substandard or otherwise unworkable. I was calling you out in particular because you do amazing work with a "stone age" livery editor. Could have also used Midnyte and others, but well, you literally have "Painter" in your name, so I felt you were a better example. lol
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#14 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 7:54:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PinkiePie4997 Go to Quoted Post
"New Racer" is sometimes harder than "Expert". Think some Player set to "New Driver" and drive like pros then this feeds the Drivatars.

Urban myth. The drivatars don't use real data any more, they're entirely artificial. They are horrible to drive against and are basically like mobile roadblocks or griefers, they are quite possibly the one thing that actually is the worst in the genre. But really, playing against AI in a game like this is not the best way to play it - so it isn't something that matters much to me.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 7:59:28 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IngoingCake8592 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post


How did my name get into this thread?... because I like the livery editor?

I like the livery editor!


Sorry AquaPainter, lol. No disrespect intended at all. OP stated the livery creator was in "the stone age" which implied was substandard or otherwise unworkable. I was calling you out in particular because you do amazing work with a "stone age" livery editor. Could have also used Midnyte and others, but well, you literally have "Painter" in your name, so I felt you were a better example. lol


Lol, no problem. The livery editor is hard to use, but that makes it better.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#16 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:11:01 AM(UTC)
I'm with you there, FN.

My last couple runs in the Trial, I feel like the AI needed a blood-alcohol test afterward. It was insane. Crashing sideways, shooting across the roadway. It settled down after the first two turns I imagine. Was past them by then, but yeah, whatever program/algorithm they use had something screwy going. It is typically a little "what the?" but this was the worst I had seen.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 9:34:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Urban myth. The drivatars don't use real data any more, they're entirely artificial.


Not sure about this. It shows some behavior seen in onlineplaying on straight line they ram u or they dont move at start. Makes no real sense to develop something like this so pretty sure its somehow trained. Its easier to build some AI wich drives the Idealline without the stupid/useless behaviors. But who cares online is more fun
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 9:39:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PinkiePie4997 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Urban myth. The drivatars don't use real data any more, they're entirely artificial.


Not sure about this. It shows some behavior seen in onlineplaying on straight line they ram u or they dont move at start. Makes no real sense to develop something like this so pretty sure its somehow trained. Its easier to build some AI wich drives the Idealline without the stupid/useless behaviors. But who cares online is more fun

Hard to say. I don't see any correlation but T10 are still saying it's trained on data from Xboxes. It's possible to train it but still you can't use it fully so maybe they train but result is very generic. I can't really see any human part in AI. In Motorsport they just ignore you even they have one eye. I don't know, New racer is my usual difficulty because I don't care about AI in Forzas :D

And Horizon has somehow better AI.

Edited by user Tuesday, November 17, 2020 9:40:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#19 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:02:56 AM(UTC)
People will believe what they want to believe, at the end of the day, like with lots of things in life.

Some of them are slow at the start to block you so their 'mates' can get a head start - they even do this in non-team events. Braking when you get behind them to slow you down, because they have no care about winning, only about getting in your way. All the AI does this. Most real players do not.

My belief is that many if not all the people involved with this game are programmers first and gamers / racers second, if at all. The person / people who designed the AI don't know anything about how real world people race or drive.

Another thing that proves the AI is not based on real data: they all know when you are aiming for them - they have a sixth sense. Or more accurately, the game tells them what you, the player, are doing, ie. it works out that at your current speed and trajectory you are going to ram them, so they magically brake *just* in time to avoid you etc. Happens again and again. It's fake and feels fake.

I'll call it now, Motorsport 8 will be no better, it will be a mediocre game with a slightly fresh layer of gloss again. I hope I'm wrong but I won't be.

Edited by user Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:07:24 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#20 Posted : Tuesday, November 17, 2020 8:59:30 PM(UTC)
I have long contended that the ability of the drivatars is not based on the real world driver as stated, but rather the ability of each drivatar is predetermined and then the name of your friends are randomly applied to each of them. This is based on careful study of races (especially the longer ones) in Horizon 3 and Horizon 4. Here are 2 specific cases:

1. You have entered a 3 race championship and have finished at least 1 of the races . Take notes as to the overall places and point totals for eachg driver at the end of the race. NOW, for the next race I change my car to a car with a different PI. Before starting the 2nd race, check the championship standings. Presto: the overall series points remain the same BUT the names are shuffled and some of your friends may have dropped out, with others now joining the championship, BUT, the friends that remain from the 1st race are now in a different place than they were at the end of the 1st race before you changed cars. Go ahead and do the 2nd race and take note of the series standings at the end of the race. Advance to the 3rd race and again change cars. Again, check the series standings (names and points for each place) before starting the 3rd race. Same thing…. The series point totals for places 1- 12 will remain the same but again, the names will be shuffled and as before. Some of your friends may have dropped out and replaced, but the ones that remain will be in a different place, with different points. I have even seen players return from the 1st race that did not compete in the second race, with an impossible point total (given that they did not do the 2nd race) hmmmm

2. Do the same long race repeatedly, back to back. Note which of your friends is outstanding and very nearly beats you (often coming from way behind) and also notice which of your friends is the bumbling inept driver that can't stay on the road, causes lots of collisions and finishes last. NOW, run that race again. hmmm... often times the friend that couldn't find his way around the track and finished last in the previous race is now the guy giving you the best competition. Quite often, the outstanding friend from the first race becomes the bumbling inept driver in the 2nd race. This is especially obvious in that race in Horizon 3 that takes you on a complete circuit around Australia. Again I maintain that the abilities of the drivatars is predetermined (a couple of good ones, several mediocre drivers, and a couple of inept drivers, and the names of your friends are just randomly assigned. hmmmm.

Again, I have noticed this time and time again.

Edited by user Tuesday, November 17, 2020 9:53:29 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#21 Posted : Saturday, January 23, 2021 7:30:20 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
People will believe what they want to believe, at the end of the day, like with lots of things in life.

Point, match, and game: FN 🏆

At one time perhaps they tried to model AI behavior after their respected player counterparts (it IS a good idea and all) but that ship sailed long ago. Too many times I've had a GreetedDust8, Jezza, or other comparable player's drivatar appear in my championship and race slower than molasses, finishing dead last or in some cases not at all/DNF. Clearly not a reflection of anything close to reality.

I also have an alt (named after my dog) that I raced in Horizon 3 just a single time for 65 minutes; Lucy's drivatar later appeared in a championship and I can't recall for certain but I think I lost one of the races to her. Not too bad for "dog" with only an hours-worth of gameplay under her belt! (I know I took screenshots, they're around here somewhere...)
Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#22 Posted : Saturday, January 23, 2021 7:44:41 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
I also have an alt (named after my dog) that I raced in Horizon 3 just a single time for 65 minutes; Lucy's drivatar later appeared in a championship and I can't recall for certain but I think I lost one of the races to her. Not too bad for "dog" with only an hours-worth of gameplay under her belt! (I know I took screenshots, they're around here somewhere...)


:D :D :D :D :D :D! Made my day.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#23 Posted : Sunday, January 24, 2021 12:24:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PinkiePie4997 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Urban myth. The drivatars don't use real data any more, they're entirely artificial.


Not sure about this. It shows some behavior seen in onlineplaying on straight line they ram u or they dont move at start. Makes no real sense to develop something like this so pretty sure its somehow trained. Its easier to build some AI wich drives the Idealline without the stupid/useless behaviors. But who cares online is more fun



Makes no sense, that is for shure. When out in free roam, every move the AI-cars does is meant to block you. I`ve even been rammed by meeting cars that crossed the road to sabotage me. Lately I`ve allso seen parked cars that suddenly rocket-starts to hit me.

This game is so full of unneccesary evil & cheats that I kind of agree with OP. Why can`t they (playground) just focus on clean pure good racing?

Gt: fairlane305
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Sunday, January 24, 2021 3:33:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: luckeydoug1 Go to Quoted Post
I have long contended that the ability of the drivatars is not based on the real world driver as stated, but rather the ability of each drivatar is predetermined and then the name of your friends are randomly applied to each of them. This is based on careful study of races (especially the longer ones) in Horizon 3 and Horizon 4. Here are 2 specific cases:

1. You have entered a 3 race championship and have finished at least 1 of the races . Take notes as to the overall places and point totals for eachg driver at the end of the race. NOW, for the next race I change my car to a car with a different PI. Before starting the 2nd race, check the championship standings. Presto: the overall series points remain the same BUT the names are shuffled and some of your friends may have dropped out, with others now joining the championship, BUT, the friends that remain from the 1st race are now in a different place than they were at the end of the 1st race before you changed cars....
Again, I have noticed this time and time again.


I had to chop the quote down.

I had a race this season that was even stranger than that. I came 2nd in the first race so I took note of who won so that I could overtake them (call them Bulldog). I won the 2nd race which put our points equal. So me and Bulldog are on equal points. In the last race I came 2nd again, but Bulldog didn't win so I should still win on points... but I didn't. Somehow someone scored more points than me, and Bulldog... impossible! But then it gets even stranger...

I started the 3rd race again, and this time I came 4th!!! Bulldog came 3rd!!! Yet the points had me first over the 3 races???

That's the strangest result I have ever seen!

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