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Rank: S-Class Racing License
#76 Posted : Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:58:37 PM(UTC)
I would like to edit my character more. Face editing, and a clothes shop rather than win clothes.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#77 Posted : Thursday, September 3, 2020 1:46:13 AM(UTC)
Clean/dirty racing.

A long contact on the side should result in ghosting. Honestly it would change a lot the spirit of the game, I am fed up with those coming from the other side of the road to push you out. Level 1 to level 10, that is killing the fun.

Given we can now discuss the enforcement guidelines, It's great to have clear enforcement guidelines and support dealing with tickets but a message to players on the expected behavior would be great. At the moment, it is too easy for some to argue that it is normal way to play FH.

I just wish next episode will bring more fun in race than this one, at the moment, it's really just luck to have a good race side to side
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#78 Posted : Thursday, September 3, 2020 5:16:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Interesting debate. Personally, I think the playlist is a pretty good feature. I’d probably regard it as one of the stronger concepts introduced. It could definitely be improved but as a concept to add cars to the game and to give players an opportunity to take part in different events it seems worthwhile to me. The changes made have generally improved it - although it’s probably been dumbed down a bit too much. The trial is my favourite part of the playlist and too often now it’s similar low class cars with no worthwhile reward.

It would be interesting to see a vote on the playlist. My suspicion is that those who are constantly criticising it would probably find that they are in a minority in having such a strong dislike of it. It feels like most people are more positive or ambivalent towards it.

I do agree that there are too many “exclusive” cars now though. Personally, I’d have them moved to the Autoshow 6 months after first being released which would keep the pool of newer exclusive cars fresh.


I like the Trial. It gets me building and racing cars I wouldn't normally. I often run the Trial multiple times in different cars. It seems like a more balanced online event since people can't just race leaderboard cars. Had some fun competitive races there. The rest of the playlist is boring AF.

I also like seasons. Don't understand all the hate for winter. Build a snow car.

Miss the XP scoring system for online races that was in FH3. It promoted better driving. Miss freeroam rush that didn't count for anything. Miss clubs. Miss automatically receiving a rivals time for running a race. Miss custom championships. Hate those stupid chat phrases. Wear a mic!

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#79 Posted : Thursday, September 3, 2020 8:49:28 AM(UTC)
On the topic of seasons, locking everyone into the current season, even when playing offline was a mistake IMHO. I understand the rationale behind it (the playerbase might very well intentionally play offline to avoid the current season if they don't like it), but by the same logic, I see a lot of players playing much less or even avoiding the game entirely during seasons they don't like. Which is better, players choosing to play the game their way and having fun, or not playing because they're not able to play how they want? I do realize that we can blueprint events in any season to get around this, but that's really more of a workaround hack than a proper solution, and doesn't benefit players who might be interested in photography or just cruising.

In terms of a constructive solution, I would simply let players choose the season they want to be in, both online and offline. Online freeroam is already instanced so it seems like the tech is already there to allow players who have chosen the same season to be grouped together. There could still be a global season that hosts the playlist events and seasonal barn finds so that players need to switch to that season to be able to do them, but outside of that players should be able to easily choose their preferred season and have the game stay there (unless they choose an option to follow the global season).

On a related topic, when playing offline it would be awesome to be able to choose time of day and weather in freeroam. TDU2 had this feature nearly 10 years ago and was awesome for photo mode (something that's seen a lot of support recently with the playlist additions), and given that blueprints let this be changed dynamically it seems like all the systems are already in place and just need a UI option to enable it.
2007 Toyota Blade Master G
2007 Toyota Blade Master G

Post Checklist: Spelling/Grammar - Constructive - Respectful
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#80 Posted : Thursday, September 3, 2020 9:27:20 AM(UTC)
I believe the seasons feature was only ever made as a fancy way of dressing up their live service model.

3 out of every 4 weeks it changes nothing except aesthetics, it would be just bizarre if all the time + resources that must have gone into it had done so just for the sake of a facelift 75% of the time.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#81 Posted : Thursday, September 3, 2020 10:35:05 AM(UTC)
I think I have reverse seasonal affective disorder IRL and I just realized it must carry over to my gaming life too. I really look forward to winter rolling around.

But yeah, choice is cool.

While we're choosing things, it would be awesome if we could choose the platform we competed against like in FH3. Console gamers have a significant performance disadvantage versus PC gamers. I know that sounds like a baseless claim, but developers must have already known this or choosing your platform wouldn't have been a feature of FH3. Was also in an FH4 rivals league on this forum where PC players always had the fastest times.

Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
On the topic of seasons, locking everyone into the current season, even when playing offline was a mistake IMHO. I understand the rationale behind it (the playerbase might very well intentionally play offline to avoid the current season if they don't like it), but by the same logic, I see a lot of players playing much less or even avoiding the game entirely during seasons they don't like. Which is better, players choosing to play the game their way and having fun, or not playing because they're not able to play how they want? I do realize that we can blueprint events in any season to get around this, but that's really more of a workaround hack than a proper solution, and doesn't benefit players who might be interested in photography or just cruising.

In terms of a constructive solution, I would simply let players choose the season they want to be in, both online and offline. Online freeroam is already instanced so it seems like the tech is already there to allow players who have chosen the same season to be grouped together. There could still be a global season that hosts the playlist events and seasonal barn finds so that players need to switch to that season to be able to do them, but outside of that players should be able to easily choose their preferred season and have the game stay there (unless they choose an option to follow the global season).

On a related topic, when playing offline it would be awesome to be able to choose time of day and weather in freeroam. TDU2 had this feature nearly 10 years ago and was awesome for photo mode (something that's seen a lot of support recently with the playlist additions), and given that blueprints let this be changed dynamically it seems like all the systems are already in place and just need a UI option to enable it.


Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#82 Posted : Friday, September 4, 2020 11:20:47 AM(UTC)
I'm really not sure what it is about FH4 that is currently leaving me with the thought of "I've played this enough." It is not a bad game as such. It just is not as engrossing as earlier Horizon title.. I go way back to the introduction of FMS4, and to this day I still very much love every minute I still spend playing the original Horizon.

I have completed nearly 100% of FH4 long ago and in the past year have spent time trying to improve race times and distances in the danger zones. At this point, I really enjoy just cruising around the map, with no particular goal in mind, other than seeing the sights, both on and off the road. I am nearing the $500million mark and I think I have over 16,000 in Forzathon points. But, as I have all available cars, outfits, etc, there is little left to spend any of this on, so the rewards, as such, are not an enticement. There are about 10 -12 cars that I enjoy driving (such as Dodge Durango, Jeep Wrangler, Dodge Charger Hellcat, 2010 VW Golf R, Audi TTS, etc. the only car that I enjoy that is not a 'normal' car is the Ferarri 599 Evo).

Last week was the first time ever that I did not achieve 50% of the weekly Forzathon in FH4. Until last week, I have always done at least 80%, and more often 92-100%. This week I did do 50% to earn the car, which I will probably never use. I just don't have the desire anymore for FH4. I realized that it had become more of a 'have to play the game' for me each week rather than 'want to play the game each week.'

I think part of the problem is the whole weekly concept where events and associated awards where there is a perceived pressure to play now to earn the rare/limited stuff, as there is no guarantee of if or when it may return.

OK, you know it is bad when I am enjoying doing the Microsoft Rewards events (daily stuff on the MS website and well as the weekly Rewards events and the Game Pass achievements on the console) more than playing Horizon 4. Yep, at this point I find I am getting more enjoyment out of such tasks as earning 3 achievements in a free to me game that I have never before played. As someone who up until 40 weeks ago (I just hit my 40 week streak in MS Rewards), had rarely spent any time on any video game that was not Forza since I started in 2011.

Edited by user Friday, September 4, 2020 11:26:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#83 Posted : Friday, September 4, 2020 5:56:55 PM(UTC)
No dance party dress up nonsense. Not in spins, awards, nothing. Waste of electrons. It’s car game. I don’t want to see dancing at beginning and end of races. Load next race.

Put all the cars in show at some point.

Fix auction house. Consistent naming. I dont know years of Evos. I know Evo 6,8, etc. Year at end not random.
Can have FE for Star card or whatever. Let people buy what they want. 812, R34, Trueno, Z32, whatever.

Fix the message board. Makes MS look stupid.
Grabable tunes like FM6. Sell tunes if need be once level 8-10.
Liveries same. Not 20mm Cr plain black livery nonsense.

Ghosting at start of all online races, trial included.

As far as the hand-bag fight earlier in thread, girls, you’re BOTH pretty 🤣😎

Edited by user Friday, September 4, 2020 6:21:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#84 Posted : Saturday, September 5, 2020 9:44:56 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
On the topic of seasons, locking everyone into the current season, even when playing offline was a mistake IMHO. I understand the rationale behind it (the playerbase might very well intentionally play offline to avoid the current season if they don't like it), but by the same logic, I see a lot of players playing much less or even avoiding the game entirely during seasons they don't like. Which is better, players choosing to play the game their way and having fun, or not playing because they're not able to play how they want? I do realize that we can blueprint events in any season to get around this, but that's really more of a workaround hack than a proper solution, and doesn't benefit players who might be interested in photography or just cruising.

In terms of a constructive solution, I would simply let players choose the season they want to be in, both online and offline. Online freeroam is already instanced so it seems like the tech is already there to allow players who have chosen the same season to be grouped together. There could still be a global season that hosts the playlist events and seasonal barn finds so that players need to switch to that season to be able to do them, but outside of that players should be able to easily choose their preferred season and have the game stay there (unless they choose an option to follow the global season).

On a related topic, when playing offline it would be awesome to be able to choose time of day and weather in freeroam. TDU2 had this feature nearly 10 years ago and was awesome for photo mode (something that's seen a lot of support recently with the playlist additions), and given that blueprints let this be changed dynamically it seems like all the systems are already in place and just need a UI option to enable it.


Concerning the season, I consider the lock is quite relative, except street races, it takes about 30s to get any track to any conditions.
With the FR having an online mode, I guess the considered lowering the load time when going from offline to online ( just adding players and online drivatars without having to load a season )
Except a bit too much rain and Winter not being enough WINTER ( Blizzard mountain fan writing ) , I enjoy that system which combined with time of day is increasing the number of situations thus delaying a bit the time it becomes repetitive.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#85 Posted : Saturday, September 5, 2020 10:23:26 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Potbox Go to Quoted Post
I think I have reverse seasonal affective disorder IRL and I just realized it must carry over to my gaming life too. I really look forward to winter rolling around.

But yeah, choice is cool.

While we're choosing things, it would be awesome if we could choose the platform we competed against like in FH3. Console gamers have a significant performance disadvantage versus PC gamers. I know that sounds like a baseless claim, but developers must have already known this or choosing your platform wouldn't have been a feature of FH3. Was also in an FH4 rivals league on this forum where PC players always had the fastest times.

Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
....




I find it also unfair that the one not going for paying neither a xbox nor the online service enjoy some advantages.

I would like that we could play all together with the very same experience, the more we are, the better is the game. The issue of it is that using the same device is part of achieving a fair play game.

It may sounds "pay to win" but using XBOX should result in the best ultimate experience one can have whereas, as a matter of facts, it is currently the opposite.

I am sure there are technical solutions that can be developed to leverage the gap, Microsoft has hands on both worlds, it could be a matter of testing the performance of the device and leveraging the gap.

Until we get that, I am really not at all a fan of it, but, may be, having a XBOX tag for Xbox players would be the less worse solution. Filter on Rivals would be good too as, obviously, we are not playing the same game.

End of the day, the possible very reason why they are not moving on this subject is that it would highlight like a fireworks that anyone willing to be competitive on a Xbox game should better not buy a Xbox ...

Edited by user Saturday, September 5, 2020 10:24:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#86 Posted : Saturday, September 5, 2020 10:46:45 PM(UTC)
Keep Rivals board as is but propose a service to retrieve data so that external service like web site and player can retrieve the raw data and do their own filtering. I guess same would apply to tunes and liveries, it would make the world of Forza even bigger at reduced cost.

Exclusivity, ok but for a specific period of time, just like some games have some exclusive content for some time. New car come to playlist, 1 month later, it is available for sale.

Value DLC maps. Huge work has been done on those. Even considering offline would require to buy DLC to access races and cars, online should enjoy all the possible tracks.

Rank: Racing Permit
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#87 Posted : Sunday, September 6, 2020 3:18:22 PM(UTC)
One thing that needs to happen in future Horizon titles is more things that are able to be purchased. I have all but 5 cars in the game and community based clothing rewards.
[img=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eg2MNRyXcAEZcq0?format=jpg&name=large]Unused points & currency[/img]

I would like the more clothing options, more patterns, more colors. I would like to be able to customize the homes/garages similar to GTA Online. Offer community created items for your avatar and home.. Offer white wall and redline (hot wheels) tires. Offer different exhaust sounds similar to how horns are offered. While I'm not a fan of LED glow under cars, at least offer it.

Now for the unpopular opinion change/request for Motorsport titles...

Much respect to the community of painters. I greatly appreciate your work and all of the time and effort put into your creations... but it is time Forza learns something from Gran Turismo...

Allow vector art uploads!

Forza Motorsport is a racing game/simulation, not a painting simulation. If I want to recreate a real world paint scheme, I should not be forced to recreate everything in the limiting in-game paint booth.
If you want more racers involved in racing (like GT has), this small change will help (some).
Allow customizable Racing Suits and Helmets as well (like GT). Racing in a clown suit is great for playing around, but there are times when I want my in-game avatar to look the part.
Fix Drivitar Liveries
I use to think plain cars racing around was fine (Drive Club), but I have grown to prefer driving against cars that look like they belong on a race track (not in a street race). During the Campaign, Drivatars either adorn popular liveries or ones my friends may have created, but custom races seem to ignore the "Show Drivatar Liveries".
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#88 Posted : Thursday, September 10, 2020 10:35:15 AM(UTC)
Also put the name of the car under the name of the vinyl. I cannot tell what a car is just by looking at a vinyl most of the time.
Rank: Driver's License
#89 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2020 12:20:43 AM(UTC)
My original intent was to exclusively play FH4 solo. I tried some online play in FH3 and was not impressed for many of the reasons that have been stated elsewhere on the issues around online play.
So I was not happy to learn that getting to 80% on the seasonal playlist required online play (but at least I didn't have to bother with getting ranked and get pushed into playing competitively).
I understand that there are other ways to get the 'exclusive' cars. Perhaps there is a central list on what cars are one time exclusive prizes and if not, maybe this is something that should be created and featured prominently. Maybe some tweaks to the auto show and auction house could help those of us who came to the game later and missed out on some of the exclusives.

A nice new feature would be rentals usable in free roam and maybe for a limited number of races so players can try an exclusive to see if they would like to try and bid on the car, especially for those that go for 6 and 7 digit figures.

I'd like a way to have 'open source' tunes that players can collaborate on. Something would need to be done about player rewards for the tunes, maybe players opt-in and can't profit from any tunes while opted in. When they opt out, there is a set period of time before they can earn from their shared tunes again.

More car sorting options like sort by power train (make it easier to find EVs and hybrids to experiment with).

Multiple favorites categories. I know I complained about online play but I have to admit that I've had some fun with Forzathon Live events. Car swapping is an important strategy for these, especially if there is a low turnout for the event.

While I'm on the Forzathon Live subject, maybe consider scaling scores based on the number of participants. Drift zones in particular seem to be a source of trouble. I'm not sure if its players don't know about disabling TCS, that these are players new to drifting, that drifting is just difficult, or a combination of all of these. While I think failure should always be an option, I'd at least like it to not be a foregone conclusion.

Which takes me to my next suggestion, make it easier to turn TCS on and off. Perhaps there is an easy way on the PC already, but not on the Xbox. I know the controller is pretty overloaded now. Maybe a limited button chord system could help (pressing multiple buttons simultaneously acts as a distinct command), maybe leverage keyboard support on the console, maybe have a way to use a second controller for the extra features. I do understand that with the current difficulty and credit reward system, the button would have to be locked out in a race. But maybe there is an opportunity to change that system as well (though I don't have anything in mind).

Allow for some level of TCS tuning.

Allow for adjusting turbo boost pressure.

Improve the AWD tuning beyond the static front/rear power split and LSD lock up values.

Decouple tires from downloaded tunes, or at least allow snow tires to be used without having to remove a locked tune.

Quck tire changes so we don't have to go through the entering the house cut scene then navigating the menus just so we can put snow tires on a car.

Vehicle test facility to help with tuning. I'm not very consistent driver which makes it hard to objectively tell if a tune is helping. The simulation stats are not a great way to try to dial in suspension geometry, damper balance, or sway bar settings. And that's just for tuning pavement. Trying to understand how to tune for gravel, mud, sand, grass, and snow are all different challenges.

Make Horizon feel like a music festival. I've found the FH4 soundtrack to be particularly lackluster. I understand there are licensing constraints. Perhaps now that Groove Music is dead, PG can do something with popular streaming services and maybe even allow for players to act as DJs in some way (even if it is just via playlists). Skill songs will need to be adapted somehow though.

While I understand that DLC will never reach 100% of the player base, I wish it didn't feel so 'unloved' by the seasonal championships. It seems you have to be in the DLC when the season goes live for the championship races to update, and once a championship has taken place on a race, its done forever. The former issue may be a bug that needs to be fixed. For the latter, maybe wipe the slate clean after a certain number of seasons. Players can already farm wheelspins via FP so I don't understand locking things out for DLC championships. If it's a matter of generating the races, it seems like something that could be automated (and maybe the hilarity of the RNG putting together something like a hypercar cross country event would be worth it).

Can we get the characters out of the uncanny valley? Also more appearance customization? I'd take that over emotes.

And an oddly specific request would be allowing a turbo to be added to the 4 rotor racing engine (see Rob Dahm's videos for data and sounds).

Edited by user Monday, September 14, 2020 9:40:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: A few more additions

Rank: Racing Permit
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#90 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2020 6:34:52 AM(UTC)
Three rounds instead of five in Seasonal Playground games
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#91 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2020 9:21:29 PM(UTC)
gamer1000k has already mentioned the problems with exclusive cars and playlists, and I agree with him 100%.
I have nothing more to say on this issue.
One thing I would strongly add is that the current system is not at all friendly to new players.
I bought UE and have all exclusive vehicles as I have been playing for a long time.
However, many of my friends are players who recently purchased FH4 and they lament the fact that most of the cars they want are locked.

"If you wait, you'll have the opportunity to get those cars again. Just wait."

In the past, I would have told them so. But there are already too many exclusives cars, and since the COVID-19 pandemic they are no longer systematically re-releasing exclusives cars.
It's no longer unusual for a car that was just re-released a few weeks ago to be re-released immediately.
I don't know if this is due to the result of telecommuting due to COVID-19, but objectively, I don't see any planning in PG's exclusive cars re-release in recent months.

As gamer1000k has also stated, unless there is a radical reform of the system, such as adding exclusive cars to the auto show months after release, or PG properly plans to re-release exclusive cars, the game will become less and less friendly to new players.
This is not only painful for its newbie players, but also unfortunate for PG and MS in that they are failing to nurture future fans.


Now, let's talk about the Livery Editor.
I've been familiar with this system since FM1. As such, I would like to see the current system maintained.
Of course, that's not the only reason.

There are only a limited number of software programs that can create SVG, and two of the most popular are Adobe Illustrator, which is paid but expensive, and Inkscape, which is free but has less functionality.
And this is exactly why I want to maintain the current system.

I have used both software programs and there is a distinct difference in performance between Illustrator and Inkscape.
If I were to compare it to Forza, it would be as if I were comparing an X-class Ferrari 599 XX Evo to a B-class Subaru WRX.

In other words, if you're trying to make something good in svg-style paint that you're comfortable with, you'll inevitably run into the question of whether you can continue to pay for Adobe's expensive subscription.
(Of course, it's possible to make great work in Inkscape if you're skilled with the software and work hard enough. But the effort, time, and comfort level of working with it will be very different)

Because of this problem, I believe the current system should be maintained.

However, it is also true that the current system has some improvements to make.

First, we should increase the number of manufacturer decal types and allow you to select a single color decal. This is already in place in other games, such as NFS.
Of course, there may be all sorts of problems before this can be implemented due to licensing issues. But this should be a big help to many players.

Next, let's separate the manufacturer decals into labels.
Like "Tires," "Oil," and "Coilovers".
This will help players who are not familiar with aftermarket brands to make good livery.
Unfortunately, it's not uncommon in Forza (and other games) to put duplicate aftermarket decals on the same car.
However, these simple tweaks will greatly reduce the chances of unfamiliar players making mistakes and help them make a good livery.

And allow creators to optionally set whether or not they can reuse vinyl groups.
For example, if we use a vinyl group that is not allowed to be reused, we won't be able to share that livery, but if we use a vinyl group that is allowed to be reused, we will be able to share it just like a regular livery.

Of course, this is a system that relies on the good will of the original creators.
So there should be an incentive to ensure that the name of the vinyl group's creators are also listed, or that they are paid a reward as well.

And, of course, since we're implementing these systems, we also need to take measures to prevent glitches that allow us to unlock livery and vinyl groups, as well as stronger encryption of these data.
As mentioned above, if a system is going to rely on the good will of its creators, the developers must also have measures in place to protect them from fraud.


That's all I have to say at this point.

There are many different opinions, and sometimes conflicting ones, but probably all players posting in this thread feel the same way about their love for Forza.
It is my strong hope that those feelings will be rewarded and that FH4 and future titles will be Forza that will make more players smile.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#92 Posted : Sunday, September 13, 2020 11:36:40 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post

I notice you haven't answered the question, why is that?

I find it hilarious that you and the rest of the serial whingers can complain as much as you want, but if someone dares challenge you they are attacked.

I don't think you know what whingeing is. State your grievance, then move on. Any more is "whingeing"


I find this rather amusing. Pot, meet kettle. Complains about "whingers" not letting an issue die, yet continually "whinges" about "whingers".

That second paragraph just makes me laugh, especially coming from the one forum user who spends the vast majority of their time on these forums attacking other users. You're either the biggest troll going, or just absolutely delusional. Please never change, I doubt anyone really takes you too seriously anymore.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#93 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2020 2:08:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NitroDva7800 Go to Quoted Post
Hello all: I'm a 78 year old woman and I love playing Forza Horizon 4 so far. It distracts an old bugger like me from having sad thoughts.
Don't get what the fuss is all about. I personally enjoy doing the tasks every thursday and collecting all the new cars that are being introduced to the game. It's always something to look forward to every week, isn't it? And I really don't mind how the car rewards are being handled right now.
Maybe the young folks should hitch up their knickers and start looking for thair desired cars instead of complaining about the system.
Some people just remind me of my grandson, who always likes to carp at everything instead of getting a job and making his life better.
Oops sorry I'm gettign carried away with my thoughts again.

Cheers, your beloved NitroDva7800!


With all due respect to yourself, I take it at your age you'll be retired now? Therefore giving you a lot more free time to play the game? It might be all well and good for you to be able to do that, but I certainly don't want to be spending my limited gaming time each week doing my "chorzeathon" tasks. At the minute I'm not working due to a few personal issues, but when I am in work I 6 days a week, and would rather spend my time enjoying a game than doing virtual chores.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#94 Posted : Monday, September 14, 2020 3:55:48 AM(UTC)
Dude, it's someone's alt acct

Back when the playlist had its late launch, I was quite unhappy with it and let everyone know it. While I wasn't exactly "thrilled" about what is essentially just a workflow disguised as a great new feature, what I was really upset about was that right from the beginning the majority of rewards were old hat, re-gifts...stuff I already had, and was very unmotivating for me. Now I just see it for what it is, it's literally just a tool, organizing what was already being offered to us. Remember what it was like BEFORE the playlist? Trying to maneuver around that ridiculously crowded map of ill-placed and over-sized event icons to find whatever one wanted out of the seasonal offerings was a tedious nightmare. The playlist (largely) just took that seasonal content and organized it in an attractive, easy-to-use format. And just as before, everyone remained free to take it or leave it. Despite the incessant whining surrounding the playlist, it's actually one of the better "improvements" made to the game.

And this argument against it for the sake of everyone's precious time is the most fake-butt false argument I've ever heard. Completing a short 3-event series of races, each race taking approximately two minutes each shouldn't take an averagey-average player more than 8 minutes. Said player should easily get to 50% playlist completion in 20-25 minutes. You probably took a dump sometime this week that took longer to pass than it takes completing 50% of most playlists. If someone is really that busy where they can't find 20-25 minutes to secure another underwhelming exclusive, honestly, they probably have no business fooling around on an Xbox 🤷🏻‍♂️. And by the same token, when there's an exclusive available that really turns one on, yeah...a gamer/car nut will find the time, be it at the crack of dawn before your shift, putting off those dishes for another half hour, or whatever. If you want it, you'll find the time. If you can't, well, then that particular digital download among the hundreds and hundreds of available cars must not be that important. And that's okay.

The chores vs playing the game thing is just as weak, as knocking out a few pithy and unfortunately usually unimaginative chore events is literally playing the game. I'm not a Raaz, nor a WittyJoey, nor a GreetedDust. I'll never have a [1%] or whatever trendy elite suffix attached to my gamer tag, and I can knock out an that entire, miserable playlist with my eyes closed. This requires minimal effort and only modest skill. With such little effort/skill/will needed, all this never ending playlist bemoaning really just reeks of entitlement.

Either play the game or don't. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited by user Monday, September 14, 2020 5:43:00 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: Driver's License
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#95 Posted : Tuesday, September 15, 2020 9:10:51 AM(UTC)
I'm going to add one more thing.
Full telemetry available via something like data out.
Right now, the data out feature is focused on providing data for motion simulators and external dash boards. A side effect is that it can function as a basic telemetry recording interface so a tuner does not need to struggle with trying to drive and watch the telemetry pages on screen at the same time. A key thing that is missing is a way to get live tire camber angles. Just getting the data from the "heat" page could be enough to get started with, but getting the actual camber angles from the "tires, misc" page would be great.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#96 Posted : Wednesday, September 16, 2020 1:38:23 AM(UTC)
From what I read, the XsX update will be
Native 4K 60 FPS
Quick Game Resume and Faster Load Times
Higher Visual Fidelity at Longer Distances

which is, to me, just FH enjoying more power ... I don't see some big work there.

Very sadly, I am under the impression we are discussing of what would the cars should look like when humanity will be on Mars ...

It would be good PG gives us a little tiny hope some plan are there for a FH5 ...

Edited by user Wednesday, September 16, 2020 1:41:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#97 Posted : Wednesday, September 16, 2020 7:12:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Dude, it's someone's alt acct

Back when the playlist had its late launch, I was quite unhappy with it and let everyone know it. While I wasn't exactly "thrilled" about what is essentially just a workflow disguised as a great new feature, what I was really upset about was that right from the beginning the majority of rewards were old hat, re-gifts...stuff I already had, and was very unmotivating for me. Now I just see it for what it is, it's literally just a tool, organizing what was already being offered to us. Remember what it was like BEFORE the playlist? Trying to maneuver around that ridiculously crowded map of ill-placed and over-sized event icons to find whatever one wanted out of the seasonal offerings was a tedious nightmare. The playlist (largely) just took that seasonal content and organized it in an attractive, easy-to-use format. And just as before, everyone remained free to take it or leave it. Despite the incessant whining surrounding the playlist, it's actually one of the better "improvements" made to the game.

And this argument against it for the sake of everyone's precious time is the most fake-butt false argument I've ever heard. Completing a short 3-event series of races, each race taking approximately two minutes each shouldn't take an averagey-average player more than 8 minutes. Said player should easily get to 50% playlist completion in 20-25 minutes. You probably took a dump sometime this week that took longer to pass than it takes completing 50% of most playlists. If someone is really that busy where they can't find 20-25 minutes to secure another underwhelming exclusive, honestly, they probably have no business fooling around on an Xbox 🤷🏻‍♂️. And by the same token, when there's an exclusive available that really turns one on, yeah...a gamer/car nut will find the time, be it at the crack of dawn before your shift, putting off those dishes for another half hour, or whatever. If you want it, you'll find the time. If you can't, well, then that particular digital download among the hundreds and hundreds of available cars must not be that important. And that's okay.

The chores vs playing the game thing is just as weak, as knocking out a few pithy and unfortunately usually unimaginative chore events is literally playing the game. I'm not a Raaz, nor a WittyJoey, nor a GreetedDust. I'll never have a [1%] or whatever trendy elite suffix attached to my gamer tag, and I can knock out an that entire, miserable playlist with my eyes closed. This requires minimal effort and only modest skill. With such little effort/skill/will needed, all this never ending playlist bemoaning really just reeks of entitlement.

Either play the game or don't. 🤷🏻‍♂️


I respectfully disagree with many of your points here.

For me at least, the introduction of the exclusive cars system in FH3 marked a fundamental shift in what Forza was about. Earlier games were much more focused on enjoying and experiencing cars and being fun to play games, but by making them exclusive, a lot of players are denied access to the vehicles, which goes contrary to this idea. I do realize that earlier Forzas didn't have new free content added on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean it has to be made exclusive. I personally feel that if it was handled the same way FM7's spotlight cars were after the exclusivity was removed it would generate just as much, if not more weekly interest since players would still be excited to try out the new content without the negative pressure to play that the current system generates.

In terms of it not taking long to "earn", that's true, but do you really want a game dictating your RL schedule? To me, that's just backwards and silly. Sure, I can make the time just about every week without issue, but by requiring me to do that the game has crossed a line from pure entertainment to something starting to resemble a job. This has other ramifications in my enjoyment of the game, since now I often feel like I'm playing because I "have" to or I'll miss out on the content, which makes it even easier to skip a week if there's nothing of interest. Sure, there are plenty of cars in the game and I don't need more cars in-game, but it still just doesn't feel good when I'm playing to have this system looming over the game.

Lastly, lets discuss the "take it or leave it" mentality that you mentioned, and a lot of other players bring up when rebutting criticism against exclusivity and the playlist. By this logic, we should never, ever criticize anything. If you don't like it, move on. There are times where this is appropriate (like for a game that is long past EOL and will never receive updates so its just wasted energy bringing up issues that will definitely never be fixed), but IMHO is actually quite toxic for an actively developed game like FH4.

If you look back at the top of the OP, you'll see I referenced Mike Brown's statement in the most recent Forza Monthly where he actively asked for feedback and criticism to make the game better. To move on and leave the game if you don't like something isn't helpful to them. They'll be losing players without knowing why or how to make the game better.
2007 Toyota Blade Master G
2007 Toyota Blade Master G

Post Checklist: Spelling/Grammar - Constructive - Respectful
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#98 Posted : Wednesday, September 16, 2020 12:24:46 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Dude, it's someone's alt acct

Back when the playlist had its late launch, I was quite unhappy with it and let everyone know it. While I wasn't exactly "thrilled" about what is essentially just a workflow disguised as a great new feature, what I was really upset about was that right from the beginning the majority of rewards were old hat, re-gifts...stuff I already had, and was very unmotivating for me. Now I just see it for what it is, it's literally just a tool, organizing what was already being offered to us. Remember what it was like BEFORE the playlist? Trying to maneuver around that ridiculously crowded map of ill-placed and over-sized event icons to find whatever one wanted out of the seasonal offerings was a tedious nightmare. The playlist (largely) just took that seasonal content and organized it in an attractive, easy-to-use format. And just as before, everyone remained free to take it or leave it. Despite the incessant whining surrounding the playlist, it's actually one of the better "improvements" made to the game.

And this argument against it for the sake of everyone's precious time is the most fake-butt false argument I've ever heard. Completing a short 3-event series of races, each race taking approximately two minutes each shouldn't take an averagey-average player more than 8 minutes. Said player should easily get to 50% playlist completion in 20-25 minutes. You probably took a dump sometime this week that took longer to pass than it takes completing 50% of most playlists. If someone is really that busy where they can't find 20-25 minutes to secure another underwhelming exclusive, honestly, they probably have no business fooling around on an Xbox 🤷🏻‍♂️. And by the same token, when there's an exclusive available that really turns one on, yeah...a gamer/car nut will find the time, be it at the crack of dawn before your shift, putting off those dishes for another half hour, or whatever. If you want it, you'll find the time. If you can't, well, then that particular digital download among the hundreds and hundreds of available cars must not be that important. And that's okay.

The chores vs playing the game thing is just as weak, as knocking out a few pithy and unfortunately usually unimaginative chore events is literally playing the game. I'm not a Raaz, nor a WittyJoey, nor a GreetedDust. I'll never have a [1%] or whatever trendy elite suffix attached to my gamer tag, and I can knock out an that entire, miserable playlist with my eyes closed. This requires minimal effort and only modest skill. With such little effort/skill/will needed, all this never ending playlist bemoaning really just reeks of entitlement.

Either play the game or don't. 🤷🏻‍♂️


I respectfully disagree with many of your points here.

For me at least, the introduction of the exclusive cars system in FH3 marked a fundamental shift in what Forza was about. Earlier games were much more focused on enjoying and experiencing cars and being fun to play games, but by making them exclusive, a lot of players are denied access to the vehicles, which goes contrary to this idea. I do realize that earlier Forzas didn't have new free content added on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean it has to be made exclusive. I personally feel that if it was handled the same way FM7's spotlight cars were after the exclusivity was removed it would generate just as much, if not more weekly interest since players would still be excited to try out the new content without the negative pressure to play that the current system generates.

In terms of it not taking long to "earn", that's true, but do you really want a game dictating your RL schedule? To me, that's just backwards and silly. Sure, I can make the time just about every week without issue, but by requiring me to do that the game has crossed a line from pure entertainment to something starting to resemble a job. This has other ramifications in my enjoyment of the game, since now I often feel like I'm playing because I "have" to or I'll miss out on the content, which makes it even easier to skip a week if there's nothing of interest. Sure, there are plenty of cars in the game and I don't need more cars in-game, but it still just doesn't feel good when I'm playing to have this system looming over the game.

Lastly, lets discuss the "take it or leave it" mentality that you mentioned, and a lot of other players bring up when rebutting criticism against exclusivity and the playlist. By this logic, we should never, ever criticize anything. If you don't like it, move on. There are times where this is appropriate (like for a game that is long past EOL and will never receive updates so its just wasted energy bringing up issues that will definitely never be fixed), but IMHO is actually quite toxic for an actively developed game like FH4.

If you look back at the top of the OP, you'll see I referenced Mike Brown's statement in the most recent Forza Monthly where he actively asked for feedback and criticism to make the game better. To move on and leave the game if you don't like something isn't helpful to them. They'll be losing players without knowing why or how to make the game better.


I appreciate the time you took to type all that out, but I have to run so I'll (try) keep it short -

While I don't have a problem with it here or in gaming generally, I wasn't really speaking to the time gating of rewards/exclusives aspect of the playlist. Rather, I was trying to address the tool's purpose and functionality (primarily) in response to the post immediately prior.

Regarding the 'game schedule dictating RL' part, I understand what you're getting at and that would be fine if we were talking about some complex, time consuming project...but we're not, and that's the point. Yes, gone are the days of #Forzathons-past where all you had to do was honk twice during the weekend to unlock the featured prize. Today, if the desirable reward for the week sits at 50% playlist completion, we're talking about a handful of activities for 20-30 minutes at any time during a 10,000-minute window. If the desirable reward sits behind a single championship event, well, thats just 7 or 8 minutes out of a 10,000-minute window. So, respectfully, to say that begins to have any resemblance to a "job" is total ca-ca. I don't know how anyone can even say that with a straight face.

As far as the 'take it or leave it' part (your characterization, not mine), what I said was "either play the game or don't," with emphasis and encouragement on 'play.' For better or worse, this is the game and it is what it is. Play it, just play it. I mean, not to pick at you personally, but the time you spend each week typing out how you're against the playlist and the time gating of rewards in every post you make, and at such length (I'm not knocking length, I enjoy and appreciate well put together and thoughtful reads), that time alone would more than cover 100% completion. That's the gist of what I was getting at; just play the game! Orrrr, don't. Go drifting or do some rivals, and pick up that exclusive later at auction. Some can be won via wheelspin. That's the gist of the 'or don't' part. In no way did I mean you should stop playing nor was there any insinuation that you should never, ever criticize anything – I've no idea what you're going on about with that part.

This last part is a bit of a segue, mostly related but speaking to 'a bigger picture,' if you will. I also am writing this as respectfully as one can convey. I know the language and attitude of my posts are often coarse and abrasive, so I want you to understand none of this coming at you personally. Now, I've no problem with criticism of this game; I'm critical of it all the time. But there's a difference between being critical of a broken product and just being dissatisfied with it because it's not exactly how you'd like it to be. As you're probably aware, there are several current threads with ongoing discussions of players complaining about the ranked scoring and how it's just plain broken. They bought a product, aspects and features contained within don't work correctly; they have every right to feel aggrieved. Now, again, not trying to single you out personally, but, speaking of feelings, I couldn't help but notice you used the word "feel" three times in your post above. You "feel" like this, and you "feel" like that... over the delivery of free content within the game – not from outside the game, like a game pack requiring monetary purchase (something else I've no problem with, btw), but new, additional content inside a product made available to you for free. All this "feeling" that you – and many others – do surrounding the delivery of supplemental content facilitated by a process that functions correctly and as designed and the vilifications thereof... from a game of entertainment is really quite remarkable. It's really a bit over the top.

I think we all can agree there's a lot of things here that don't work and no doubt everyone has a laundrey list of things they just don't like, but those are different things. And repeating personal preferences unreasonably characterizing something as negative for consumers and/or broken when actually functioning as it should ad nauseam is a great way to not get a desired result. I can see that you care about the game, so surely you can speak to other things, address other topics, no? Where's all that cross country shade you used to throw around? How about addressing that? (of course I jest, playful tone there). But seriously, what about all those thoughts on race route design? Even though we've disagreed a bit on that in the past, design of race routes (and map) would be an extremely refreshing debate to have (or at least read about).

Okay, I am rambling now with my own ridiculously long, New Testament-length post I just criticized someone else for doing, so I will stop; so much for being breif, right? I hope all this finds you well.

Edited by user Thursday, September 17, 2020 1:56:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling, correction.

Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#99 Posted : Wednesday, September 16, 2020 1:11:29 PM(UTC)
Can you please give me a HOLDEN EFFIGY as a REWARD in any Season that is supported to go with my Series X?
This is NOT a car request per se but a dream!

Edited by user Wednesday, September 16, 2020 1:13:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#100 Posted : Wednesday, September 16, 2020 11:27:22 PM(UTC)
Imagine Playground games wants me to race in a racing game to win a car, but inestead I'd just like to fly a kite or watch some paint dry.
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