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Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#51 Posted : Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:33:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CriminalM1ndz Go to Quoted Post
imagine writing a novel yet its all about cars in a garage not the gameplay....... no mention of rammers in ranked lobbies, no mention on bans for using a imagine the devs have in-game... all I see is i couldn't get this car "crying like a child"


You're free to add constructively to this discussion and provide constructive criticism on those gameplay issues that are important to you. I'm not sure where you got the impression that there's any whining and complaining going on, those of us who don't like the exclusive car system have clearly stated why we see it as an issue (and at least in my case, I do have all the cars). No need to put down others because we have different opinions about the game than you.


You can try to dress it up any way you want, it's just another thread for you to whinge about exclusive cars.
Give it a rest, the horse is dead.


You can try to dress it up any way you want, yours is just another post for you to whinge about people who criticize things about the game.
Give it a rest, just accept there's people who don't think this game is God's gift to mankind.


Is that the best you can come up with?
Tell me what has been changed due to your constant whingeing?

Still better than your whinging about our whinging.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#52 Posted : Sunday, August 30, 2020 4:07:11 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CriminalM1ndz Go to Quoted Post
imagine writing a novel yet its all about cars in a garage not the gameplay....... no mention of rammers in ranked lobbies, no mention on bans for using a imagine the devs have in-game... all I see is i couldn't get this car "crying like a child"


You're free to add constructively to this discussion and provide constructive criticism on those gameplay issues that are important to you. I'm not sure where you got the impression that there's any whining and complaining going on, those of us who don't like the exclusive car system have clearly stated why we see it as an issue (and at least in my case, I do have all the cars). No need to put down others because we have different opinions about the game than you.


You can try to dress it up any way you want, it's just another thread for you to whinge about exclusive cars.
Give it a rest, the horse is dead.


You can try to dress it up any way you want, yours is just another post for you to whinge about people who criticize things about the game.
Give it a rest, just accept there's people who don't think this game is God's gift to mankind.


Is that the best you can come up with?
Tell me what has been changed due to your constant whingeing?

Still better than your whinging about our whinging.


I notice you haven't answered the question, why is that?

I find it hilarious that you and the rest of the serial whingers can complain as much as you want, but if someone dares challenge you they are attacked.

I don't think you know what whingeing is. State your grievance, then move on. Any more is "whingeing"
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#53 Posted : Sunday, August 30, 2020 4:57:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Tell me what has been changed due to your constant whingeing?

In response to feedback from players we've had, for example:
- FFA ranked adventure added
- Rivals mode extended to cover every class for every track
- Bone Shaker and Track Tor banned from online play
- Two increases in garage space
- A drastic reduction in the time taken to obtain new cars compared to when the playlist was first introduced
- Anti-wallriding mechanics introduced in ranked adventure
- Ghosting for the first part of the race introduced in ranked adventure

There's no doubt that feedback from players does have some effect.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#54 Posted : Sunday, August 30, 2020 5:08:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Tell me what has been changed due to your constant whingeing?

In response to feedback from players we've had, for example:
- FFA ranked adventure added
- Rivals mode extended to cover every class for every track
- Bone Shaker and Track Tor banned from online play
- Two increases in garage space
- A drastic reduction in the time taken to obtain new cars compared to when the playlist was first introduced
- Anti-wallriding mechanics introduced in ranked adventure
- Ghosting for the first part of the race introduced in ranked adventure

There's no doubt that feedback from players does have some effect.


Besides which FH5 need to take some of these things into account...

...and the car reset time was fixed.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#55 Posted : Sunday, August 30, 2020 5:32:50 AM(UTC)
I'll write this message in the hopes that Playground Games actually does read it.

The first thing I want to say is DO NOT TRUST THE DATA ALONE! Data collection is an important resource in today's video game marketing world, but you see so many devs fall into the pit hole of data and end up digging their own graves thanks to an over-reliance on data. I know Forza Horizon 4 was the most popular horizon. I know that it's the Horizon that I've played the most. That DOES NOT mean FH4 was a step in the right direction.

I play FH4 the most because the improvements to the physics, car list, and performance are enough to catapult it over 3. It's also the game that my friends have, so there is that aspect as well. However there were a lot of decisions made about this game that were massive steps in the wrong direction, and need to be killed as ideas as opposed to "improved upon" for the next title.

Always Online

What a colossal waste of resources this is. Forcing online for everyone brought very little value to the game, while at the same time it grabbed server resources away from those of us who were actually trying to race or freeroam online. The consequences of this decision can be felt every time one tries to form a convoy or run a race with friends. For a game putting online front and center, the online experience is terrible, and it's hard not to suspect that the fact people just trying to play single player are taking up resources is a part of the problem.

Seasons

Cool idea, really, and it's not all bad. Seasons help with the ebb and flow of one of 4's best additions (the playlist), and I applaud the effort. It was worth a try. However in the end seasons ended up being more or less a wasted effort. Having the same map for all for seasons just doesn't add enough differentiation, and the biomes of FH3 ended up having way more feeling of variety then the seasons of 4. And forcing seasons on people, even if it's single player? That is game design at its worst.

Removal of Custom Championships

Just why? Were you worried it might compete with the playlist for attention? Because it wouldn't have. But removing custom championships ruins the single player endgame (which was practically endless in FH3). I have zero motivation to create custom car restrictions because it's a lot of effort for a one and done affair. Even custom tracks (another good addition) feel like a wasted effort most of the time. I'd be far more interested in creating custom tracks if I could weave them into custom championships as opposed to them once again one and done affairs. I've been banging the drum on this one since day 1 of FH4's release, only to get ignored or marginalized. Custom Championships add so much to the endgame, they need to come back ASAP.

PI Balance

There are several issues with PI balance. The most notable one is between AWD and RWD. AWD doesn't cost enough PI (especially for how little the conversion weighs), and RWD just can't compete, especially since there is nothing but standing starts in the game. There need to be more restrictions at the higher teirs as well. 850, 925, 950, and 975 need to be added on top of the current restrictions. The S2 category especially. There are cars that start in S2 but cannot make it to the top, or can only do so with an AWD conversion and the ugly, only 1 option Forza wing. This is a major problem when I can't really use one of my dream cars for anything other than single player, which itself has been ruined by the aforementioned lack of custom championships.

Freeroam Rush... just get rid of it for everything, please. You have the Eliminator now for those people. Not that I'm condoning the Eliminator, but I don't mind co-existing with it. I'll just never play it.

Let's talk about some of the positive now:

The Playlist

What a great idea. I not only love the feature, but I also love how you've made it less restrictive over time. FH has always been about doing what you want, when you want, so making the playlist a lighter touch is a really smart decision. However, I do still like that there is a playlist to follow (if I choose) and maybe pull me a bit out of my comfort zone every week. I also approve of putting new cars behind the playlist. I know some people don't, but oh how quickly people forget that new cars used to be behind paywalls. I'm not naive. I know that adding new cars to the game costs money, and there has to be some form of profit to justify the investment. Putting them behind the playlist to keep players active and involved is way more consumer friendly and interesting than adding paywalls to the game.

It's not "all killer no filler", but like I said, I like that it tries to pull me out of my comfort zone a little, and making it more open and a lighter touch were massive improvements to an already good idea. If any feature from FH4 deserves to be expanded and improved upon, this is it. The best way to do this would be to update the expansion playlists as well.

Track Design

While the map itself is a little dull compared to previous Horizon's, the tracks in 4 are really good. Fortune Island especially is a tour-de-force of excellent track design, and the addition of a race track in the Lego expansion was fantastic. I love having the option for both open world racing and track racing in the same game. Love all the stunt playgrounds too. Good job.

PC optimization

You guys went from a terrible PC optimization in FH3 to one of the best ports I've ever seen. That kind of turn around is beyond impressive. Good job, I know it couldn't have been easy.

Stuff that was a Wash

Forzation Live

Was fun the first few times but got really boring really quickly. You could remove it tomorrow and I'd probably consider it an improvement just so I don't have those constant, obnoxious alerts every hour. I'd probably like it better if it were moved onto the playlist and was matchmade at will as opposed to blared at me, but only at certain times.

Stories

Cool idea, but I never really got behind it.

Car Cosmetics

I'm willing to give you guys a freer pass on car cosmetics than most. Unlike Need for Speed, you guys actually consider how changing cosmetics actually effects performance. Doing that, on this large of a car list, it's no easy task. Still, we need more than 1 generic Forza wing in the game.


Whew, that's everything I can think of... for now.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#56 Posted : Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:10:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
So much of the game baffles the mind in the departures from what worked in the past. Clubs meaning something was great. Why no club points? That kept people playing as well. At this point the only reason I would buy H5 is to keep up with the Forza tier points. That isn't a very good reason. I would like the reason to be nice clean racing. Good racing should make you want to come back. That is all you need to keep people interested.


I probably miss clubs the most. FH2 completely changed the way I did gaming and the social element kept me playing. You had to wear a microphone online for trash talking and contrition. People who showed up in lobbies without a mic were immediately suspected of having ill intent. FH2 was really great fun and Horizon's peak IMO. FH4 is the most antisocial Forza game I could possibly imagine.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#57 Posted : Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:11:28 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CriminalM1ndz Go to Quoted Post
imagine writing a novel yet its all about cars in a garage not the gameplay....... no mention of rammers in ranked lobbies, no mention on bans for using a imagine the devs have in-game... all I see is i couldn't get this car "crying like a child"


You're free to add constructively to this discussion and provide constructive criticism on those gameplay issues that are important to you. I'm not sure where you got the impression that there's any whining and complaining going on, those of us who don't like the exclusive car system have clearly stated why we see it as an issue (and at least in my case, I do have all the cars). No need to put down others because we have different opinions about the game than you.


You can try to dress it up any way you want, it's just another thread for you to whinge about exclusive cars.
Give it a rest, the horse is dead.


If the devs were to make a statement to the effect of "we've heard your concerns regarding exclusive cars, and while we understand your position, we're not going to be making any changes" then continuing to bring this issue up would be a waste of time and could be considered "whinging".

However, the devs have made no such statement, and the big car unlocking update to FM7 in response to feedback regarding exclusivity and the recent Forza Monthly discussion on bans and leaderboard cheating (another issue that players have "whinged" about since day 1 as well) that's FINALLY being addressed goes to show that there is a chance this feedback will be heard. In fact, in the recent Forza Monthly Mike Brown (creative director of Playground Games, i.e. one of the lead developers) SPECIFICALLY ASKED for players to provide constructive criticism on the forums and in discord, saying it was much more valuable to him than players who continually praise the game without providing any real substantive feedback. That's the purpose of this thread, to collect this constructive feedback and criticism for the devs, something they SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR.

People putting others down and dismissing everything they have to say as "complaining/crying/tantrums/whinging" because they don't agree with what is being said adds nothing constructive to the discussion, and makes for a hostile forum environment where people are discouraged from voicing things about the game they may not like. It's against the spirit of constructive critical discussion and feedback and really is inappropriate in any context.

Edited by user Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:15:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

2007 Toyota Blade Master G
2007 Toyota Blade Master G

Post Checklist: Spelling/Grammar - Constructive - Respectful
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#58 Posted : Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:35:31 AM(UTC)
if there is one thing that needs improvement then it's the net code.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#59 Posted : Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:46:36 AM(UTC)
Nothing would have happened without players on official forum to raise those.

Developed 3 times the very exact same "car reset" to obtain something that, I guess, we will have to cope with.

It would be good and cost effective to go to players before implementing.

The users may not always have the truth BUT, if it's a big "don't do that", you'd better have a second thought about it.

Sorry gamer1000k, day 4 and no single sign of any member of team appreciating you did create that thread. In fact I am afraid that they consider only the number of pages related to topics dealing with one specific subject. like you I miss an acknowledgment of hearing/reading, it would be kind of game changer on the forum.

Edited by user Sunday, August 30, 2020 7:51:36 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#60 Posted : Monday, August 31, 2020 7:32:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Tell me what has been changed due to your constant whingeing?

In response to feedback from players we've had, for example:
- FFA ranked adventure added
- Rivals mode extended to cover every class for every track
- Bone Shaker and Track Tor banned from online play
- Two increases in garage space
- A drastic reduction in the time taken to obtain new cars compared to when the playlist was first introduced
- Anti-wallriding mechanics introduced in ranked adventure
- Ghosting for the first part of the race introduced in ranked adventure

There's no doubt that feedback from players does have some effect.


And more recently, winning is no longer required in the playlist’s playground games for the prize.

Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#61 Posted : Monday, August 31, 2020 8:35:41 AM(UTC)
I've got a couple more points of constructive criticism I would like to add:

I'm not big on multiplayer for many reasons (chiefly the fact that it's really inconvenient and tedious to play with all the forced waits in menus and connection/lag issues, the loss of offline QoL features like the ability to pause and rewind without losing time, and I don't enjoy most MP interactions), but there were a few times I enjoyed it in FH3 in spite of these issues that FH4 has changed to make them no longer enjoyable.

The biggest culprit is the loss of ghost racing and the lack of FFA PGG events. Additionally, the most fun I've had online in Forza has been playing with friends, but the interface and mechanics for getting me and my friends all together in the same online freeroam session is just bad and we spend more time trying to get it to work than actually playing half the time. This part of the game needs a lot of TLC as this is supposed to be one of its strengths, yet its also one of the most frustrating parts of the game to get to work properly. I want to have an in-game menu that shows which of my Xbox friends are currently playing FH4, with a simple button to invite that puts both players into the same online freeroam instance when the invite is accepted. I do not like messing around with the external Xbox app on PC which doesn't do this properly half the time.

Ghost racing completely solves the issue of ramming and other toxic driving behaviors. Players can still show off their cars and their skills, but they can't grief each other. I know it's more of a shared time trial than true racing without the ability to block passing and such, but honestly I much prefer these types of events.

Going to team based only in PGG was not a great idea since there's such a disparity of player skills, and makes winning/losing much more dependent on matchmaking luck than anything else (and then there's all the extra wasted time of doing many of the events twice). The FFA PGG modes lent themselves well to silly MP fun in FH3, and I would like to see those brought back to FH4.
2007 Toyota Blade Master G
2007 Toyota Blade Master G

Post Checklist: Spelling/Grammar - Constructive - Respectful
Rank: Driver's Permit
#62 Posted : Monday, August 31, 2020 9:05:19 AM(UTC)
is there anybody realized that EXTREME Shadows is NOT actually extreme..in cockpit view shadows have got too much aliasing..it is like 2048x2048 map resolution.. is this a bug ?
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#63 Posted : Monday, August 31, 2020 9:28:42 AM(UTC)
It you go to custom there is ghost racing in H4. They added this a long ways back. You can find A, S1 and S2 collisions off road racing with free roam rush off. A can be hard to find but there is usually S1 and S2. I have not been successful finding much else. Nobody as far as I can tell does any cross county, dirt or street racing ghost.

Edited by user Monday, August 31, 2020 9:29:57 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#64 Posted : Tuesday, September 1, 2020 2:19:38 PM(UTC)
Everything OP had to say is Very valid criticism of this game and anyone dismissing at as 'whining' and, or 'complaining' shouldn't even be in this thread, reading these posts, never mind responding to them.

I aired a countless amount of times, about how much I dislike the Playlist, so I won't reiterate months of mediocre frustration I have had with it. All I will say is; I'll play the game, how, and when I want to. Not how, and when You want me to, Playground. The whole 'car exclusivity' thing is beyond a joke now, with a considerable amount of vehicles in this game being straight-up unobtainable at any given time.

Another big problem I have with Horizon 4, though, is the whole season thing... Yeah, it was cool for the first in-game year, but Boy, it gets old quick. And this boils down into the second thing about this game I strongly dislike...

Forza Horizon (to me) was always an escape from motorsport, an annual holiday in the sunshine, and just chilling out with your friends, beautiful scenery and good music. Horizon 4 nearly kills all of those things for me. The seasons and the whole 'Horizon Life' just doesn't work for me at all. I don't want to live at Horizon, and don't want a job there, I want to visit, compete, have a brilliant time, then leave. Horizon 1 to 3 have delivered on that experience for me, thinking back to them, it feels like memory of a holiday (a summer festival). But Horizon 4 just feels like an endless job (which the playlist has not helped with, At All). Just like a real holiday, yes, it's brilliant for a week or two (or three!) but I wouldn't want to be stuck there... forever.

Music this in Horizon 4 was also a major letdown for me, not as many radio stations, and some god-awful botched censoring after they decided to make it 3+. Seriously, for a game based around a music festival, that decision is just so counter-intuitive it really makes me wonder if the festival wasn't even a main priority in the development of Horizon 4.

Also, always online needs to go back where it came from. This adds nothing to the solo experience apart from the obnoxious chat spam.

I have many other problems with this game, such as absolutely ridiculous censorship of the community. But I'm keeping this short, because most of them have already been pointed out. Plus I wanted to air my feelings about the core game.

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#65 Posted : Tuesday, September 1, 2020 2:20:42 PM(UTC)
Outstanding forum issues, too!

Edited by user Tuesday, September 1, 2020 2:22:56 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Double post lol.

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#66 Posted : Tuesday, September 1, 2020 10:40:08 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Tell me what has been changed due to your constant whingeing?

In response to feedback from players we've had, for example:
- FFA ranked adventure added
- Rivals mode extended to cover every class for every track
- Bone Shaker and Track Tor banned from online play
- Two increases in garage space
- A drastic reduction in the time taken to obtain new cars compared to when the playlist was first introduced
- Anti-wallriding mechanics introduced in ranked adventure
- Ghosting for the first part of the race introduced in ranked adventure

There's no doubt that feedback from players does have some effect.


Is that it?
So the changes you mentioned came solely from comments on this forum? Correct?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#67 Posted : Tuesday, September 1, 2020 10:55:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CriminalM1ndz Go to Quoted Post
imagine writing a novel yet its all about cars in a garage not the gameplay....... no mention of rammers in ranked lobbies, no mention on bans for using a imagine the devs have in-game... all I see is i couldn't get this car "crying like a child"


You're free to add constructively to this discussion and provide constructive criticism on those gameplay issues that are important to you. I'm not sure where you got the impression that there's any whining and complaining going on, those of us who don't like the exclusive car system have clearly stated why we see it as an issue (and at least in my case, I do have all the cars). No need to put down others because we have different opinions about the game than you.


You can try to dress it up any way you want, it's just another thread for you to whinge about exclusive cars.
Give it a rest, the horse is dead.


If the devs were to make a statement to the effect of "we've heard your concerns regarding exclusive cars, and while we understand your position, we're not going to be making any changes" then continuing to bring this issue up would be a waste of time and could be considered "whinging".

However, the devs have made no such statement, and the big car unlocking update to FM7 in response to feedback regarding exclusivity and the recent Forza Monthly discussion on bans and leaderboard cheating (another issue that players have "whinged" about since day 1 as well) that's FINALLY being addressed goes to show that there is a chance this feedback will be heard. In fact, in the recent Forza Monthly Mike Brown (creative director of Playground Games, i.e. one of the lead developers) SPECIFICALLY ASKED for players to provide constructive criticism on the forums and in discord, saying it was much more valuable to him than players who continually praise the game without providing any real substantive feedback. That's the purpose of this thread, to collect this constructive feedback and criticism for the devs, something they SPECIFICALLY ASKED FOR.

People putting others down and dismissing everything they have to say as "complaining/crying/tantrums/whinging" because they don't agree with what is being said adds nothing constructive to the discussion, and makes for a hostile forum environment where people are discouraged from voicing things about the game they may not like. It's against the spirit of constructive critical discussion and feedback and really is inappropriate in any context.


You can't even stop doing what you despise. At least if you said you weren't taking part in these events you'd have some credibilty, but you don't.

You line up like a trained seal to jump through whatever hoops they tell you to.
You don't want to do anything that will inconvenience you in the slightest, so you take the easy route, whingeing.

This is now nothing more than a wishlist, and therefore should be locked.

Also, I don't need some mini mod telling me what I can or can't say on a public forum. If I've broken the rules I'm sure a real mod will let me know.



Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#68 Posted : Tuesday, September 1, 2020 11:42:19 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Tell me what has been changed due to your constant whingeing?

In response to feedback from players we've had, for example:
- FFA ranked adventure added
- Rivals mode extended to cover every class for every track
- Bone Shaker and Track Tor banned from online play
- Two increases in garage space
- A drastic reduction in the time taken to obtain new cars compared to when the playlist was first introduced
- Anti-wallriding mechanics introduced in ranked adventure
- Ghosting for the first part of the race introduced in ranked adventure

There's no doubt that feedback from players does have some effect.


Is that it?
So the changes you mentioned came solely from comments on this forum? Correct?


Comments which, judging by the changes done to the game, and contrary to what guys like you would say, actually reflect the opinions of a much larger demographic, otherwise the changes would never have been done in the first place.

It's too easy for us. It's not even a fight:

Player meltdown after 100% requirement (including GTPlanet's article) >>> PG reduces that to 80% two weeks after introduction

Complaint after complaint that new cars are being introduced in online events >>> No new car introduced via Trial/PGG since December 2019

Eliminator touted as this huge thing in December 2019 stream >>> Dead and forgotten by the team itself in 3 months, Mégane R.26 in Forzathon Shop

Seasonal PGG absolutely hated despite restarts inflating its numbers >>> Win requirement removed

Ranked qualification too steep for new players >>> PG removes the requirement, which has direct impact on Playlist (50% much easier to get now, especially in Winter)

The Playlist at this point is a walking corpse and only exists because of this game's seasonal structure. It has been diluted to the bare minimum. The fact it's pathetically easy right now does not prove your point, it strengthens ours.

Besides, the game is old, hasn't had anything truly new in a while, and you're telling players they need to do 50% in Winter to get a middling SUV like the V6 Range Rover Velar? Good luck keeping interest high with that.

If anything, I'm really happy to see mine and gamer1000k's feelings about the game are shared by many more people in and outside this forum, which made PG improve the game and had the sweet bonus of making your fanboying ilk fall flat on your faces.

And that's not to mention the many, many other issues with the game, which we have gone through in this thread and which you ignored in an attempt to paint us as the "evil haters who want everything easy".
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#69 Posted : Wednesday, September 2, 2020 12:45:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Tell me what has been changed due to your constant whingeing?

In response to feedback from players we've had, for example:
- FFA ranked adventure added
- Rivals mode extended to cover every class for every track
- Bone Shaker and Track Tor banned from online play
- Two increases in garage space
- A drastic reduction in the time taken to obtain new cars compared to when the playlist was first introduced
- Anti-wallriding mechanics introduced in ranked adventure
- Ghosting for the first part of the race introduced in ranked adventure

There's no doubt that feedback from players does have some effect.


Besides which FH5 need to take some of these things into account...

...and the car reset time was fixed.


fh

fm8 iz fm

mmmm
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#70 Posted : Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:16:07 AM(UTC)
Interesting debate. Personally, I think the playlist is a pretty good feature. I’d probably regard it as one of the stronger concepts introduced. It could definitely be improved but as a concept to add cars to the game and to give players an opportunity to take part in different events it seems worthwhile to me. The changes made have generally improved it - although it’s probably been dumbed down a bit too much. The trial is my favourite part of the playlist and too often now it’s similar low class cars with no worthwhile reward.

It would be interesting to see a vote on the playlist. My suspicion is that those who are constantly criticising it would probably find that they are in a minority in having such a strong dislike of it. It feels like most people are more positive or ambivalent towards it.

I do agree that there are too many “exclusive” cars now though. Personally, I’d have them moved to the Autoshow 6 months after first being released which would keep the pool of newer exclusive cars fresh.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#71 Posted : Wednesday, September 2, 2020 3:36:21 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post
Tell me what has been changed due to your constant whingeing?

In response to feedback from players we've had, for example:
- FFA ranked adventure added
- Rivals mode extended to cover every class for every track
- Bone Shaker and Track Tor banned from online play
- Two increases in garage space
- A drastic reduction in the time taken to obtain new cars compared to when the playlist was first introduced
- Anti-wallriding mechanics introduced in ranked adventure
- Ghosting for the first part of the race introduced in ranked adventure

There's no doubt that feedback from players does have some effect.


Is that it?
So the changes you mentioned came solely from comments on this forum? Correct?


Comments which, judging by the changes done to the game, and contrary to what guys like you would say, actually reflect the opinions of a much larger demographic, otherwise the changes would never have been done in the first place.

It's too easy for us. It's not even a fight:

Player meltdown after 100% requirement (including GTPlanet's article) >>> PG reduces that to 80% two weeks after introduction

Complaint after complaint that new cars are being introduced in online events >>> No new car introduced via Trial/PGG since December 2019

Eliminator touted as this huge thing in December 2019 stream >>> Dead and forgotten by the team itself in 3 months, Mégane R.26 in Forzathon Shop

Seasonal PGG absolutely hated despite restarts inflating its numbers >>> Win requirement removed

Ranked qualification too steep for new players >>> PG removes the requirement, which has direct impact on Playlist (50% much easier to get now, especially in Winter)

The Playlist at this point is a walking corpse and only exists because of this game's seasonal structure. It has been diluted to the bare minimum. The fact it's pathetically easy right now does not prove your point, it strengthens ours.

Besides, the game is old, hasn't had anything truly new in a while, and you're telling players they need to do 50% in Winter to get a middling SUV like the V6 Range Rover Velar? Good luck keeping interest high with that.

If anything, I'm really happy to see mine and gamer1000k's feelings about the game are shared by many more people in and outside this forum, which made PG improve the game and had the sweet bonus of making your fanboying ilk fall flat on your faces.

And that's not to mention the many, many other issues with the game, which we have gone through in this thread and which you ignored in an attempt to paint us as the "evil haters who want everything easy".


You're delusional.
Classic case of the vocal minority.
You're the fanboy that's played 68 days.
At least you admitted you're a whinger.
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#72 Posted : Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:46:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kranktus Go to Quoted Post


You can't even stop doing what you despise. At least if you said you weren't taking part in these events you'd have some credibilty, but you don't.

You line up like a trained seal to jump through whatever hoops they tell you to.
You don't want to do anything that will inconvenience you in the slightest, so you take the easy route, whingeing.

This is now nothing more than a wishlist, and therefore should be locked.

Also, I don't need some mini mod telling me what I can or can't say on a public forum. If I've broken the rules I'm sure a real mod will let me know.





Now you're putting words in my mouth.

I don't despise playing the game or doing events to get the new cars, I despise the way the cars are time locked.

It's not about inconvenience or wanting everything for free, I have no problem with games that lock content behind challenges, so long as I'm free to take on the challenge at my own time. This is a game, not a job.

Just because you don't think any of this feedback will be taken seriously or implemented doesn't automatically make this a wishlist thread that needs to be locked. As was originally stated, this is a thread to collect feedback. I'm sorry if much of the feedback that has been collected doesn't match what you would like to see.

Putting people down and dismissing what they say because you don't agree with it might not be against the forum rules, but that doesn't make a useful thing to do in a constructive debate, which is what I was hoping to have here.

Speaking of which, I haven't seen any feedback from you on how the game could be improved and would be interested in your take since you have a difference perspective than I do.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 2, 2020 11:29:58 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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2007 Toyota Blade Master G

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#73 Posted : Wednesday, September 2, 2020 10:53:03 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Interesting debate. Personally, I think the playlist is a pretty good feature. I’d probably regard it as one of the stronger concepts introduced. It could definitely be improved but as a concept to add cars to the game and to give players an opportunity to take part in different events it seems worthwhile to me. The changes made have generally improved it - although it’s probably been dumbed down a bit too much. The trial is my favourite part of the playlist and too often now it’s similar low class cars with no worthwhile reward.

It would be interesting to see a vote on the playlist. My suspicion is that those who are constantly criticising it would probably find that they are in a minority in having such a strong dislike of it. It feels like most people are more positive or ambivalent towards it.

I do agree that there are too many “exclusive” cars now though. Personally, I’d have them moved to the Autoshow 6 months after first being released which would keep the pool of newer exclusive cars fresh.


The idea of the playlist itself is actually pretty good if you take the exclusive vehicles out of the equation. It's great having new events each week to try out, especially if it's vehicle and track/discipline combinations I wouldn't have thought to put together. So I would say I'm positive towards the playlist itself if we're just talking about having a collection of challenges each week with a reward for doing them (although like you said, often the events are repetitive and uninspired unfortunately). Also, what happened to the community route championships? Not all the tracks were great, but with a bit more curation that could be an awesome way to showcase some of the best community routes.

If I could make a couple changes to the playlist though, I would allow previous weeks to be replayed and rewards earned if they haven't been obtained already (would also solve the exclusive vehicle issue) and change around the events so that the new vehicle of the week is highlighted by the events in that playlist (maybe have it be rewarded by the showcase that week and be eligible for the majority of the other events) instead of being the final reward after you've already completed everything with nowhere to use it.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 2, 2020 11:45:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#74 Posted : Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:36:15 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post


The idea of the playlist itself is actually pretty good if you take the exclusive vehicles out of the equation. It's great having new events each week to try out, especially if it's vehicle and track/discipline combinations I wouldn't have thought to put together. So I would say I'm positive towards the playlist itself if we're just talking about having a collection of challenges each week with a reward for doing them (although like you said, often the events are repetitive and uninspired unfortunately). Also, what happened to the community route championships? Not all the tracks were great, but with a bit more curation that could be an awesome way to showcase some of the best community routes.

If I could make a couple changes to the playlist though, I would allow previous weeks to be replayed and rewards earned if they haven't been obtained already (would also solve the exclusive vehicle issue) and change around the events so that the new vehicle of the week is highlighted by the events in that playlist (maybe have it be rewarded by the showcase that week and be eligible for the majority of the other events) instead of being the final reward after you've already completed everything with nowhere to use it.

And I am on the opposite side. For me Playlist without new exclusive content (cars only, not new clothes or dance) to win is useless - e.g. like when there was backup season loaded in season 23? with no new cars it felt so empty for me.
Also I personally preferred Playlist with new cars hidden behind Trial and PGG. But yeah, I might be biased -> 1. I am on PC, 2. I have much free time + only 2-3 games that I play, 3. I am faster, than slower ;)
I like very much Trials, even the worst ones I did multiple times - sometimes for fun, sometimes to help others get rewards. PGG not so much (especially Bamburgh beach), sometimes had to re-run it couple of times, but I still prefer it as non-participation only. Since the change there is even more (no suprise) untuned cars and unfortunately I can see more people who are there only for "playlist percentage".

As for time-gated cars: It is not great for customer, but great for creators. It is one of ways to extend life of game. Is it good way to do it? Depends on the perspective. Should new cars be added to autoshow after some time? Yes.
For me new cars should be hidden behind Trial and after 2 weeks added to autoshow. I know that still excludes people who can't or don't like playing online, but well, you can't pleasure everyone. IMO trial -> 2 weeks autochow would be most fair.

Other thing that for me autoshow is stupid, Ok, stupid is wrong word. blablablabla...here I starts in my head a essay about obtaining cars in dealerships/used cars dealers/auction, about different economy, about wheelspins and cars/money thrown at you. In short words - IMO it is to easy to get high-end cars/money. Would prefer to have it more GranTurismo4 style.
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#75 Posted : Wednesday, September 2, 2020 2:59:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ziperrPL Go to Quoted Post

And I am on the opposite side. For me Playlist without new exclusive content (cars only, not new clothes or dance) to win is useless - e.g. like when there was backup season loaded in season 23? with no new cars it felt so empty for me.
Also I personally preferred Playlist with new cars hidden behind Trial and PGG. But yeah, I might be biased -> 1. I am on PC, 2. I have much free time + only 2-3 games that I play, 3. I am faster, than slower ;)
I like very much Trials, even the worst ones I did multiple times - sometimes for fun, sometimes to help others get rewards. PGG not so much (especially Bamburgh beach), sometimes had to re-run it couple of times, but I still prefer it as non-participation only. Since the change there is even more (no suprise) untuned cars and unfortunately I can see more people who are there only for "playlist percentage".

As for time-gated cars: It is not great for customer, but great for creators. It is one of ways to extend life of game. Is it good way to do it? Depends on the perspective. Should new cars be added to autoshow after some time? Yes.
For me new cars should be hidden behind Trial and after 2 weeks added to autoshow. I know that still excludes people who can't or don't like playing online, but well, you can't pleasure everyone. IMO trial -> 2 weeks autochow would be most fair.

Other thing that for me autoshow is stupid, Ok, stupid is wrong word. blablablabla...here I starts in my head a essay about obtaining cars in dealerships/used cars dealers/auction, about different economy, about wheelspins and cars/money thrown at you. In short words - IMO it is to easy to get high-end cars/money. Would prefer to have it more GranTurismo4 style.


Thanks for the constructive response. I can see some value in having cars be temporary exclusives to keep players interested as long as they're made widely available later and not left as exclusives forever (like what happened in FH3). That still rewards players who participated right away without being overly to punishing players who missed the event.

No arguments from me regarding the broken game progression and how the game throws a bunch of stuff at the player up front (and then dries up and turns into a grind to get the 10 mil cars). Personally, I think there should be both a meaningful progression to obtain cars, and also a way for all players to utilize a new car immediately for multiplayer to make for a healthy competitive scene (as Breeminator has discussed). Maybe the car rental system could be expanded so that you can use tunes on rented cars, just not liveries, but need to buy the car to be able to tune it yourself.

Improving game progression is probably beyond the scope of this thread and getting into wishlist territory, but if the devs were ever to overhaul the progression in FH4 without drastically changing the game I would extend the seasonal progression to be about the length of FH3 and slowing down the initial reward rate to be a flatter curve with not so much up front but more later. Additionally, I would also drastically reduce wheelspin frequency to be closer to how it is post-tutorial, and level the wheelspin rewards so higher level players get larger rewards to help them get the more expensive cars.
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Post Checklist: Spelling/Grammar - Constructive - Respectful
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