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Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#26 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2020 2:32:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RED RIDER NL Go to Quoted Post
Tilo38 I strongly disagree that it prevents many(x3) occurrences. That aside, given what you've seen in the game so far, do you honestly believe a system like has been suggested could be implemented effectively? Rollover reset should be much simpler and that hasn't been fixed to anyone's satisfaction so expecting this to work out is naive at best.


Well, I was there when there was nothing ( looks like god speaking ... lol ) , only team game with no ghosting, no collision management, no wall riding management and it was just not playable. Nevertheless, we can agree to disagree :)

Implemented, nothing is going to change on the game, it's finished, over. All that could come is from Eliminator like I guess the modification that was done on car position reset.

Anything we discuss here is just between us, like people discussing from what the government should do/should have done. No one from PG/T10 is listening and game is far too old. Even next episode might already be cooked.

I like to think me and others contributed to getting back FFA & Rivals, adding ghosting and wall riding penalty but the list of things we wanted is huge and uncovered, even some day 1 bug like Winter tyres are still not fixed or even stated as being a bug.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 14, 2020 2:34:44 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#27 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2020 3:36:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Novaly6933 Go to Quoted Post
Penalties could be introduced into the game and would affect credit income. The worse the penalties, the fewer credits you earn for that race. This would also encourage those engine-swapping rainbow livery loving toddlers to not treat this game like Burnout's Road Rage gamemode.

Penalties could be:

-driver contact (bumping and ramming, less physical contact the better)
-property destruction (destroying breakable objects, idk how this would apply with destruction skills)
-dirty driving (lots of wall contact, touching checkpoint markers)

For Street races, no penalties apply other than driver contact.

I know this doesn't sound very friendly to new players, but maybe this could be implemented on higher difficulties, or at least, the first few campaign races penalties aren't applied.


I have 600M and pretty much all the cars in game. I dont know how this going to penalize me when I drive dirty.

Touching checkpoint markers and property destruction is not counts as a dirty driving or bad sportsmanship. Think checkpoints as curbs and for destroying objects on the world you already slow down when you hit them.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 14, 2020 3:38:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#28 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2020 3:49:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
I dont know how this going to penalize me when I drive dirty.


You don't say? 🙄


But he's right; players well into the game wouldn't feel the pinch, thus no behavioral modification...perhaps if it scaled up w prestige/difficulty somehow. And what if the player had zero credits? No debit, no penalty?

Edited by user Tuesday, July 14, 2020 4:10:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#29 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2020 4:53:34 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
I dont know how this going to penalize me when I drive dirty.


You don't say? 🙄


But he's right; players well into the game wouldn't feel the pinch, thus no behavioral modification...perhaps if it scaled up w prestige/difficulty somehow. And what if the player had zero credits? No debit, no penalty?


Penalties for bad sportsmanship should be done while in race with force slowdown like it currently is. I dont think any penalty to the money will going to stop this. I mean I have truck load of money and I dont even know where to spend it. Players like me can easily dumb his/her money.

I believe 2 things needs to be penalized while racing;
Wallriding.
Intentional ramming.

We currently have a great penalty system that discourages wallriding. However we dont have a penalty for ramming. We do have a anti dive bomb system that automticaly ghosts players when they were about hit someone with excessive speed but if you do it correctly you can ram someone to gain advantage. The problem with the ramming penalty is its extremely hard to identify for game to which one is the rammer and which one is victim under some circumstances. A correct ramming penalty is way harder to implement then wallriding penalty.

Point is money penalty wont going to affect players with lots of money while a correct ramming penalty is hard job to implement, I doubt PG will ever bother to do it.
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#30 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2020 5:11:03 PM(UTC)
Well, seeing as I (and others) have largely already made these points, I am forced to agree.

It seems like 9 out of every 10 blueprints are for credit farming purposes, which alone probably totally negates this idea altogether anyway.

Resurrecting the H3 XP Championship would solve 85-90% of this problem, imho.
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#31 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2020 5:30:46 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Resurrecting the H3 XP Championship would solve 85-90% of this problem, imho.


For those of us not in the know (um, me! lol) what was the XP Championship? And more importantly, what about it would address this?

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#32 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2020 9:51:51 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IngoingCake8592 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Resurrecting the H3 XP Championship would solve 85-90% of this problem, imho.


For those of us not in the know (um, me! lol) what was the XP Championship? And more importantly, what about it would address this?



In FH3, winning CP is not based on being first but on having the most XP points which comes with being the cleanest possible, anytime you hit something your skill chain reset and you have to start again taking corners clean, passing clean etc to gain points again. Great idea except maintaining the 'chain' active comes with drifting + drifting giving points which led to some drifting in the back of the race and winning CP without having raced any moment.

Because it was not perfect, some players complained and instead of improving it like dropping the points on drifting, new team just decided to remove it with the consequences we all face.

I'm convinced removing 90% of ramming is possible without killing the fun of the game. Detecting collision, since the pushed car moves is easy, detecting slowdown of car is obviously easy, therefore applying same slowdown to the car(s) having pushed in the previous 2s is also simple. I've no doubt there will be corner cases like the player went collision within the 2s but not linked to the guy having pushed BUT the balance is super positive.

Added to that, some bonus for clean driving with a display at the finish board like 1 star for no wall collision, 1 star for no car collision on the front of the car, and bonus for clean overtake, yes, that would have been promoting clean racing.

imho, not promoting clean racing made FH4 the least fun FH ever.

It takes to find someone not willing to use ramming and same level as you to have a good tight race. Anyone who already had such race knows how much it is intense and fun even if you loose it.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 14, 2020 9:59:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#33 Posted : Saturday, July 18, 2020 5:52:01 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: luckeydoug1 Go to Quoted Post
Nope. Save the penalties for FMS.

Couldn't agree more!

To all those that think FH4 should be more like FMS, with all it's seriousness, go and play FMS.

FH4 is fantasy, with no realism at all other than the designs of the cars and that's what so good about it.

Where else can you bounce over the countryside @ 200mph in a 1977 Ford Escort?

I don't like rammers any more than the next guy and for that I chose not to play game modes such as ranked wherever possible or against anyone online at all.

Except, that is "The Eliminator", which although not a fan of BR games as a rule, I've grown to like that mode a lot.

It's not without it's annoyances, but you have to adapt to survive and it does encourage a bit of Krav Maga style driving, but tha's half the fun.

It's all just just fantasy driving at the end of the day and not to be taken seriously.

....and I'm not ashammed to admit that I will definitely employ wall riding to beat the AI in The Trial any other event where it's still possible any day of the week.

If you want realism and seriousness, FMS!

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#34 Posted : Saturday, July 18, 2020 1:01:24 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ripperoo UK Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: luckeydoug1 Go to Quoted Post
Nope. Save the penalties for FMS.

Couldn't agree more!

To all those that think FH4 should be more like FMS, with all it's seriousness, go and play FMS.

FH4 is fantasy, with no realism at all other than the designs of the cars and that's what so good about it.

Where else can you bounce over the countryside @ 200mph in a 1977 Ford Escort?

I don't like rammers any more than the next guy and for that I chose not to play game modes such as ranked wherever possible or against anyone online at all.

Except, that is "The Eliminator", which although not a fan of BR games as a rule, I've grown to like that mode a lot.

It's not without it's annoyances, but you have to adapt to survive and it does encourage a bit of Krav Maga style driving, but tha's half the fun.

It's all just just fantasy driving at the end of the day and not to be taken seriously.

....and I'm not ashammed to admit that I will definitely employ wall riding to beat the AI in The Trial any other event where it's still possible any day of the week.

If you want realism and seriousness, FMS!



if you want mariokart, go mariokart ..

I am quite sure you feel like we do when we read go to FMS. it's not because it is fantasy that it should not come with some fair play, no link there. That said, our opposite positions do demonstrate that there are 2 expectations that are incompatible, wrecking place possibly adding nitro, guns, etc , and the other about racing with some cars in open world.

When game was released, we were many to expect Ranked to be that split. I did qualify expecting that. As a matter of facts, going up in ranked requires to be expert about ramming ... I would say that it is the ultimate fail on FH4 and upcoming FH(s) will suffer the consequences of having trained during 2 years players to be expert at ramming.

In the end, if Fh team had done the job properly, this thread would certainly not exist.

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#35 Posted : Saturday, July 18, 2020 8:22:41 PM(UTC)
Take an arcade approach to simulation damage. Impact damage with the front of the vehicle lowers engine performance by X% for X amount of time. (For instance hit a vehicle with front of your vehicle (traffic or other player) with an impact force between .5G to 1G and you lose 25% power for 5 seconds. Hit harder than that and it’s 60% loss for 10 seconds. You still have enough power to keep moving forward but not enough to continue to grief the player you hit, and will drop back in the grid accordingly.

This system does not need to imply fault, as long as it is figured upon crashes involving the front of a vehicle. I’m ok with an accidental crash causing a loss of power because people will actively avoid contact to limit how often if happens.
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#36 Posted : Saturday, July 18, 2020 10:47:58 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Novaly6933 Go to Quoted Post
Penalties could be introduced into the game and would affect credit income


Who cares about credit income when racing online?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#37 Posted : Saturday, July 18, 2020 11:40:46 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RBXGT2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Novaly6933 Go to Quoted Post
Penalties could be introduced into the game and would affect credit income


Who cares about credit income when racing online?


Newer players, cash-strapped players, anyone saving up for a $20 gigmillion aution house bid?
Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#38 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2020 12:38:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: markvii1 Go to Quoted Post
Take an arcade approach to simulation damage. Impact damage with the front of the vehicle lowers engine performance by X% for X amount of time. (For instance hit a vehicle with front of your vehicle (traffic or other player) with an impact force between .5G to 1G and you lose 25% power for 5 seconds. Hit harder than that and it’s 60% loss for 10 seconds. You still have enough power to keep moving forward but not enough to continue to grief the player you hit, and will drop back in the grid accordingly.

This system does not need to imply fault, as long as it is figured upon crashes involving the front of a vehicle. I’m ok with an accidental crash causing a loss of power because people will actively avoid contact to limit how often if happens.


Things like this aren't as easy to program as you may think. Clever players may learn to game the system and provoke a collision such as by braking unexpectedly to get rammed by an opponent who then gets penalised, while the other player cruises to victory. A bit like the crash for cash insurance scams carried out by, uh, people from certain parts of the UK.
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#39 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2020 12:39:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RBXGT2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Novaly6933 Go to Quoted Post
Penalties could be introduced into the game and would affect credit income


Who cares about credit income when racing online?


Newer players, cash-strapped players, anyone saving up for a $20 gigmillion aution house bid?


It's true though, I doubt it would make much difference, and none at all at competitive levels.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#40 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2020 1:22:14 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RBXGT2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Novaly6933 Go to Quoted Post
Penalties could be introduced into the game and would affect credit income


Who cares about credit income when racing online?


Newer players, cash-strapped players, anyone saving up for a $20 gigmillion aution house bid?


It's true though, I doubt it would make much difference, and none at all at competitive levels.


Oh, agreed.
Every train needs a caboose, right?
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#41 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2020 4:10:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Newer players, cash-strapped players, anyone saving up for a $20 gigmillion aution house bid?


Game showers you with money and cars that are worth millions. Nobody goes into online racing thinking "i will get some money now".

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#42 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2020 4:45:18 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RBXGT2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Newer players, cash-strapped players, anyone saving up for a $20 gigmillion aution house bid?


Game showers you with money and cars that are worth millions. Nobody goes into online racing thinking "i will get some money now".



I don't disagree with any of that, however, whether people think they 'will get some money now' or not is irrelevant. Topic is about them potentially losing credits, not gaining them. But as FN and others (including myself) have already pointed out, this isn't likely to influence players well into the game that are already sitting on a mountain of credits/wheelspins, etc.
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#43 Posted : Sunday, July 19, 2020 4:55:42 AM(UTC)
The only way to really hurt cheats is through deductions to their ranking points and/or through suspensions/bans. Take away 1,000 points from someone who is clearly ramming to gain an advantage and they will stop doing it. Credit deductions mean nothing. The problem is that I’d have thought this requires reactive moderation based on complaints. If there was an easy way to flag bad driving and, say, 10 reports in a week of disruptive driving about the same driver was enough to trigger some form of active moderation then that, to me, would be enough to weed out the consistent offenders. Sadly, I don’t see this happening - at the moment, I think any report of bad driving probably just goes into a black hole never to be seen again. They can’t even properly deal with speed cheats.

The one thing that gives me hope, and where I disagree with Tilo, is that to get near the top at FFA, being a constant rammer isn’t enough. You can pretty much guarantee that anyone in Leagues 1-4 is clean (some more aggressive than others but not active rammers). The time and effort required to get good enough just doesn’t seem to be consistent with being prepared to cheat to win, plus I suspect any rammer who does get high enough to be noticed probably finds it very difficult against pre-warned lobbies who are well aware of their antics.
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#44 Posted : Wednesday, July 22, 2020 8:14:02 AM(UTC)
I feel like all penalties should be added at the end of the race, including checkpoint misses.
It could be easily achieved with having cars ghosted for all car 2 car contact with a penalty time counter while two ghost boxes are overlapping.
Wall riding could also incur a time penalty for each contact.
Missing a checkpoint, time penalty instead of a 20 second reset.

Add up all of the penalties at the end of the race and add them to the final time.

Suddenly your 1300hp Porsche 959 on stock brakes, shocks and tyres doesn't seem like a wise choice for that S1 race.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#45 Posted : Thursday, July 23, 2020 12:10:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
The only way to really hurt cheats is through deductions to their ranking points and/or through suspensions/bans. Take away 1,000 points from someone who is clearly ramming to gain an advantage and they will stop doing it. Credit deductions mean nothing. The problem is that I’d have thought this requires reactive moderation based on complaints. If there was an easy way to flag bad driving and, say, 10 reports in a week of disruptive driving about the same driver was enough to trigger some form of active moderation then that, to me, would be enough to weed out the consistent offenders. Sadly, I don’t see this happening - at the moment, I think any report of bad driving probably just goes into a black hole never to be seen again. They can’t even properly deal with speed cheats.

The one thing that gives me hope, and where I disagree with Tilo, is that to get near the top at FFA, being a constant rammer isn’t enough. You can pretty much guarantee that anyone in Leagues 1-4 is clean (some more aggressive than others but not active rammers). The time and effort required to get good enough just doesn’t seem to be consistent with being prepared to cheat to win, plus I suspect any rammer who does get high enough to be noticed probably finds it very difficult against pre-warned lobbies who are well aware of their antics.


In fact, I am same page with the "isn't enough", it is not only that but it's part of, and it should not. I believe that top ranked tend to be clean with other top ranked which is hardly the case when it comes to low ranked. Anyway ramming should negatively impact progression from level 20 to 1 ...
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#46 Posted : Thursday, July 23, 2020 2:59:16 AM(UTC)
This is an interesting thought experiment but we have to be realistic here. This game is coming towards the end of it's run and FH5 is probably so far along it's development cycle that it's too late to incorporate any major changes in that so whatever good ideas we may come up with are not going to be implemented in FH4.
I'd like to see team mate ghosting being permanently on but that's not going to happen either.
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#47 Posted : Thursday, July 23, 2020 5:55:53 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jerakeen2826 Go to Quoted Post
This is an interesting thought experiment but we have to be realistic here. This game is coming towards the end of it's run and FH5 is probably so far along it's development cycle that it's too late to incorporate any major changes in that so whatever good ideas we may come up with are not going to be implemented in FH4.
I'd like to see team mate ghosting being permanently on but that's not going to happen either.


No one is suggesting implementation here and now; it's a discussion/exchange of ideas on improving upon the hot, miserable mess of online adventures. Everyone around here knows 'they' aren't listening, but that doesn't mean we can't/shouldn't think for ourselves.
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#48 Posted : Thursday, July 23, 2020 6:03:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RBXGT2 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Newer players, cash-strapped players, anyone saving up for a $20 gigmillion aution house bid?


Game showers you with money and cars that are worth millions. Nobody goes into online racing thinking "i will get some money now".



I don't disagree with any of that, however, whether people think they 'will get some money now' or not is irrelevant. Topic is about them potentially losing credits, not gaining them. But as FN and others (including myself) have already pointed out, this isn't likely to influence players well into the game that are already sitting on a mountain of credits/wheelspins, etc.


50 million and i'm there :)

Not one cheat or glitched advantage either.

Very happy :)

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#49 Posted : Tuesday, September 8, 2020 7:51:32 AM(UTC)
Hi, one question - You all have ideas about penalties and ramming, yes they spoil the game for me too. But why nobody thinks of this solution - racing in ghost mode ale the race? There could be two types of games - one with ghosting, one without. What would we lose and why nobody wants to implement that??
Rank: Driver's Permit
#50 Posted : Tuesday, September 8, 2020 7:52:48 AM(UTC)
Hi, one question - You all have ideas about penalties and ramming, yes they spoil the game for me too. But why nobody thinks of this solution - racing in ghost mode ale the race? There could be two types of games - one with ghosting, one without. What would we lose and why nobody wants to implement that??
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