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Rank: B-Class Racing License
#76 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2020 6:24:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RED RIDER NL Go to Quoted Post
First off, I'm not one of the people who complained about having to win PGG. I don't like the mode but I've always been able to get through it. As for the change, I don't think it's a coincidence that this week I had the absolute worst team I've had since the game launched. I believe they were actively trying to lose to get it over with. If you think I'm exaggerating, I was the only one to score during the flag portion. Two or three of them didn't even pick up a flag. By pandering to the complainers they've actually made it more frustrating which I would've thought was impossible.

Maybe it's a me problem but I can't comprehend playing a game and not trying to win.


Your last statement there hints at the root of the problem IMHO. Personally, from my own experience and what I've seen on the forum, not many people actually enjoy PGG (and by extension the trial and ranked online adventure).

To try to boost player count, the devs put them in the playlist with rewards to try to entice players into those modes. They succeeded in getting more players to try them for the reward at the expense of many of them resenting every minute they had to participate on online to get the cars and playlist percentage, and doing the minimum amount necessary to get the reward. I'm in this camp, and there's many months where I would just do donuts on the starting line in ranked adventure. PGG was onerous enough compared to the other online modes that many players (myself included) simply didn't bother at all.

Now that it's participation only a lot more players will be willing to suffer through PGG for the reward, but I can see how that will also bring in a lot of unskilled and uninterested players the same way it does for the other online modes.

IMHO the only real solution is to remove all MP/online exclusive rewards and events from the playlist and stop pushing players into MP who really don't want to be there.

Edited by user Monday, July 6, 2020 6:51:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#77 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2020 6:38:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
IMHO the only real solution is to stop pushing players into MP who really don't want to be there.


They effectively did that by dropping the reward percentages from 100% to 80%. You don't have to do pgg to get the season rewards. I suffer through because I feel like I "should" get the 100% every time but it isn't necessary.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#78 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2020 7:16:30 AM(UTC)
Yes and no, there's still past exclusives frequently offered behind PGG that encourages a lot of players to try it anyways if they missed the exclusives the last time around (another big game design problem that I've discussed elsewhere and don't need to bring up here again).

But I do agree that PGG is largely optional now, which is why I haven't touched it in a very long time.

At least now with the participation only requirement I only need to suffer through 1 game of PGG if I do happen to want the reward instead of an indeterminate number of games until I get matched up against a team that quits after losing the first game.

Edited by user Monday, July 6, 2020 7:26:01 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#79 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2020 7:28:25 AM(UTC)
Those matches where the other team quits after the 1st round were an absolute joy for someone who is just doing it for the playlist. I'll miss it.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#80 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2020 11:02:18 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RED RIDER NL Go to Quoted Post
First off, I'm not one of the people who complained about having to win PGG. I don't like the mode but I've always been able to get through it. As for the change, I don't think it's a coincidence that this week I had the absolute worst team I've had since the game launched. I believe they were actively trying to lose to get it over with. If you think I'm exaggerating, I was the only one to score during the flag portion. Two or three of them didn't even pick up a flag. By pandering to the complainers they've actually made it more frustrating which I would've thought was impossible.

Maybe it's a me problem but I can't comprehend playing a game and not trying to win.


My experience was somewhat different. I ended up on the blue team, and started short handed. We lost the first round, where we actually did manage to score 3 points (I scored one of those myself).

By the end of the second event we were down to 3, while the other team still had at least 5. And in the 3rd event, there were only 2 of us at the end. The 3rd event was Survival, and we were both tagged quite quickly, being outnumbered 2-1.

It's not just the frustration of it, though. When you're down 2 events and outnumbered 2-1, and the game still expects you to play the offensive mode of Survivor, despite the fact that there is no way 2 players will ever be able to tag an entire team of 5 in less than 30 seconds, even if they drove right into us and let us tag them... It would be patronizing if you didn't know it was just a computer mechanically queuing up the next sequence. But, at least we got through it quickly.

I don't think my remaining teammate was just sticking around to get it over with, but I honestly couldn't blame them if they were. I at least kept trying, even though we had no chance.

We were shut out 3 - 0. But we finished. And it's over. There's nothing stopping us from having another go if we want to, and there's always Online Adventure. But it's over, and I'm happy.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#81 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2020 4:28:54 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RED RIDER NL Go to Quoted Post
First off, I'm not one of the people who complained about having to win PGG. I don't like the mode but I've always been able to get through it. As for the change, I don't think it's a coincidence that this week I had the absolute worst team I've had since the game launched. I believe they were actively trying to lose to get it over with. If you think I'm exaggerating, I was the only one to score during the flag portion. Two or three of them didn't even pick up a flag. By pandering to the complainers they've actually made it more frustrating which I would've thought was impossible.

Maybe it's a me problem but I can't comprehend playing a game and not trying to win.


Your last statement there hints at the root of the problem IMHO. Personally, from my own experience and what I've seen on the forum, not many people actually enjoy PGG (and by extension the trial and ranked online adventure).

To try to boost player count, the devs put them in the playlist with rewards to try to entice players into those modes. They succeeded in getting more players to try them for the reward at the expense of many of them resenting every minute they had to participate on online to get the cars and playlist percentage, and doing the minimum amount necessary to get the reward. I'm in this camp, and there's many months where I would just do donuts on the starting line in ranked adventure. PGG was onerous enough compared to the other online modes that many players (myself included) simply didn't bother at all.

Now that it's participation only a lot more players will be willing to suffer through PGG for the reward, but I can see how that will also bring in a lot of unskilled and uninterested players the same way it does for the other online modes.

IMHO the only real solution is to remove all MP/online exclusive rewards and events from the playlist and stop pushing players into MP who really don't want to be there.


The day I lost faith on Playground was the day I saw them live on stream saying Seasonal PGG was "popular" and that "lots of people play it". They were living in La La Land, riding the fame from the highscore reviews, and were completely disconnected from the community.

Soon afterwards we got Eliminator, cementing my opinion...
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#82 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2020 11:23:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Peregrine57 Go to Quoted Post

My experience was somewhat different. I ended up on the blue team, and started short handed. We lost the first round, where we actually did manage to score 3 points (I scored one of those myself).

By the end of the second event we were down to 3, while the other team still had at least 5. And in the 3rd event, there were only 2 of us at the end. The 3rd event was Survival, and we were both tagged quite quickly, being outnumbered 2-1.

It's not just the frustration of it, though. When you're down 2 events and outnumbered 2-1, and the game still expects you to play the offensive mode of Survivor, despite the fact that there is no way 2 players will ever be able to tag an entire team of 5 in less than 30 seconds, even if they drove right into us and let us tag them... It would be patronizing if you didn't know it was just a computer mechanically queuing up the next sequence. But, at least we got through it quickly.

I don't think my remaining teammate was just sticking around to get it over with, but I honestly couldn't blame them if they were. I at least kept trying, even though we had no chance.

We were shut out 3 - 0. But we finished. And it's over. There's nothing stopping us from having another go if we want to, and there's always Online Adventure. But it's over, and I'm happy.

RED RIDER is not talking about "being outnumbered, so we can't win", but about teammates not doing anything from the beginning, even if the teams are equal in number of people.



Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#83 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2020 11:42:06 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RED RIDER NL Go to Quoted Post
First off, I'm not one of the people who complained about having to win PGG. I don't like the mode but I've always been able to get through it. As for the change, I don't think it's a coincidence that this week I had the absolute worst team I've had since the game launched. I believe they were actively trying to lose to get it over with. If you think I'm exaggerating, I was the only one to score during the flag portion. Two or three of them didn't even pick up a flag. By pandering to the complainers they've actually made it more frustrating which I would've thought was impossible.

Maybe it's a me problem but I can't comprehend playing a game and not trying to win.


So it's exactly as anyone who gave it a moment's thought could have predicted... they should revert this change, or remove it from the playlist altogether as it's now a farce.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#84 Posted : Monday, July 6, 2020 11:43:41 PM(UTC)
I only play PGG because I like to achieve 100% - but its always the very last activity per week because I know I'll be very frustrated by the time I complete - same issues as described above on people leaving early (even when we are winning) and people not really trying.

If we are to continue with this we need some development e.g. if the Blue team is reduced in numbers the RED team is also reduced.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#85 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 12:22:08 AM(UTC)
FN - It is to early to tell if people will be like that. I did like 8 or 9 PGG to see if this will be a thing. Half of it ended earlier because everyone on other team quit. In one game we ended up fighting for 3 rounds, no one left. Funny thing was that there was only me and one other guy in B700 cars, rest was in untuned cars. Other games ended with 1-2 people left on other team.
So at this point it is too early to judge. But definitely we need some in game pop up message (this message should pop up when you are starting seasonal PGG) to inform everyone that they don't need to win. If I wouldn't be on this forum, I would probably do PGG until victory.

RR1742 - I was always doing PGG as one of first things. My thinking was that it would easier to find decent team sooner than later.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#86 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 12:48:32 AM(UTC)
Just had a really fun time sliding the Opel Kadett around the tracks in the Trial.

Not only did i win with a comfortable margin on all 3 races, the pickup on it is as sweet as pie.

I just go bananas when i can come up to a corner, throw it sideways and not lose any real speed and coast on through.......

Was doing it with the '68 Mustang for awhile but now i'm going to fine tune the Kadett and run it a few more times.

Oh the joy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Happy times racing for me tonight. :)

Edit: For those who want to have as much fun as i am sliding and winning, the sharecode for tune is 124 562 793

Edited by user Tuesday, July 7, 2020 2:54:25 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#87 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 5:04:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ziperrPL Go to Quoted Post
RED RIDER is not talking about "being outnumbered, so we can't win", but about teammates not doing anything from the beginning, even if the teams are equal in number of people.


Exactly.

This was either 5 people who were completely new to the game, highly unlikely, or 5 people who were content to drive around and wait for the game to be over to collect the prize. In a move that could have been malicious or incompetence, one of them boxed me in during survival when I was the only one uninfected and I quickly got taken out.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#88 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 5:11:27 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RED RIDER NL Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ziperrPL Go to Quoted Post
RED RIDER is not talking about "being outnumbered, so we can't win", but about teammates not doing anything from the beginning, even if the teams are equal in number of people.


Exactly.

This was either 5 people who were completely new to the game, highly unlikely, or 5 people who were content to drive around and wait for the game to be over to collect the prize. In a move that could have been malicious or incompetence, one of them boxed me in during survival when I was the only one uninfected and I quickly got taken out.


That sounds deliberate but who knows.

This new system would be like if you went to your employment and had work you needed your colleagues to help you complete, and instead they just sat around playing with their phones and looking at the clock because they were still getting paid just for being there, and just wanted to go home as quickly as possible. Great.

(Any suggestion that the Playground Games developers do this at work is purely coincidental, although it might explain quite a lot.)

Edited by user Tuesday, July 7, 2020 5:11:59 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#89 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 5:13:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
The day I lost faith on Playground was the day I saw them live on stream saying Seasonal PGG was "popular" and that "lots of people play it". They were living in La La Land, riding the fame from the highscore reviews, and were completely disconnected from the community.

Soon afterwards we got Eliminator, cementing my opinion...


If I remember correctly, the guy who said that recently became the creative lead or something similar. Someone needs to explain the difference between participation for completion and enjoyment.

I hope the new Test Drive game is good. I'm exaggerating a little of course. I love the overall game but some of their decisions elicit a big oof from me.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#90 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 7:45:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RED RIDER NL Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ziperrPL Go to Quoted Post
RED RIDER is not talking about "being outnumbered, so we can't win", but about teammates not doing anything from the beginning, even if the teams are equal in number of people.


Exactly.

This was either 5 people who were completely new to the game, highly unlikely, or 5 people who were content to drive around and wait for the game to be over to collect the prize. In a move that could have been malicious or incompetence, one of them boxed me in during survival when I was the only one uninfected and I quickly got taken out.


Ok, fair enough. I likely glossed over that. I'm aware I have a habit of doing that on occasion.

On the rare occasion I've been on roughly evenly matched teams, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference. Either I'm paying attention to my own efforts, and not watching teammates that closely, or I've messed up despite my own efforts in a way that to the casual observer could be misconstrued as not contributing. Camping the goal in Flag rush, and misjudging the opponent's approach path is largely indistinguishable from sitting there doing nothing, and making a half-hearted effort to intercept.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#91 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 8:15:33 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Peregrine57 Go to Quoted Post
Camping the goal in Flag rush, and misjudging the opponent's approach path is largely indistinguishable from sitting there doing nothing, and making a half-hearted effort to intercept.


I preordered so I've been playing the game since before it launched. Like everyone, I've had absolutely terrible teams. I've been terrible. I can tell the difference.

With all of my teammates hanging around the opponents goal (where they started) I blocked 3 from scoring in a 10 second span while 3 others came from the other side and scored completely unopposed.

Not sure if you're just playing devil's advocate or what but the change has soured me even more on a mode that I didn't like to begin with.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#92 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 11:54:21 AM(UTC)
All I was saying was I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference. Maybe you could, or others could given more experience with the mode. Or if somebody is immobile enough to be blatantly obvious.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#93 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 12:07:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Peregrine57 Go to Quoted Post
All I was saying was I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference. Maybe you could, or others could given more experience with the mode. Or if somebody is immobile enough to be blatantly obvious.


I think I can tell pretty well, as someone who's played quite a lot of this mode. But it's moot now that winning doesn't matter. Previously, it would be useful to figure out if your team wasn't up to winning, so you could quit and matchmake again.

Unless you absolutely want to 100% a season, there is no point in playing PGG in the playlist any more is there? If you want to play PGG and have a good game then it makes sense to play a regular unranked adventure. (Not ranked because it was ruined due to people exploiting the ranking system.)
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#94 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 12:20:09 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post


Unless you absolutely want to 100% a season, there is no point in playing PGG in the playlist any more is there? If you want to play PGG and have a good game then it makes sense to play a regular unranked adventure. (Not ranked because it was ruined due to people exploiting the ranking system.)


The only reason before was if you absolutely wanted to 100% the playlist. As someone up-thread mentioned, they haven't put any new exclusives behind it for months now. At least now you can polish it off quickly.

I only played ranked games to get the star card. Haven't touched it since.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#95 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 1:53:53 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Peregrine57 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post


Unless you absolutely want to 100% a season, there is no point in playing PGG in the playlist any more is there? If you want to play PGG and have a good game then it makes sense to play a regular unranked adventure. (Not ranked because it was ruined due to people exploiting the ranking system.)


The only reason before was if you absolutely wanted to 100% the playlist. As someone up-thread mentioned, they haven't put any new exclusives behind it for months now. At least now you can polish it off quickly.

I only played ranked games to get the star card. Haven't touched it since.


The other reason to play it before was for the fun of playing. (The main reason we all play video games?) It would have an extra competitive edge as there was something more riding on the match than ONLY playing for fun, there was a reward of some kind, whether it be a car, or playlist percentage points. So people tried hard to win. This meant it was worth playing. Now that's been taken away. I'm not going to lose sleep over it, there are plenty of other things to get more disappointed about in this game for sure.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 7, 2020 1:55:04 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#96 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2020 11:03:47 PM(UTC)
Peregrine57 - You have been on the forum long enough to know why there is no exclusives behind online events anymore.

FN - So lets pretend that this change is "lesser evil" and hope that people will play PGG normal :)
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#97 Posted : Wednesday, July 8, 2020 3:46:14 AM(UTC)
I realize I'm partly to blame for why this discussion is still going, despite many of us either not caring, or being largely in agreement, and only disagreeing over details. I felt compelled to reply to something when I'd already voiced my opinion on the matter, and now here we are. I happen to prefer it this way, but I recognize why others might not. I have nothing further to add.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#98 Posted : Wednesday, July 8, 2020 4:54:19 AM(UTC)
After previously using the Lancia Fulvia for the Trial, I decided to give the 68 Mustang a shot. It was excellent. Unfortunately, I was up against a higher level driver (not always an indicator of ability) in an Abarth whose tactics were frustrating but effective. Basically he never made a single corner but also never wasted time braking... We were miles ahead of the rest but I could only manage two 2nd places and a 1st in the final. It's too bad that ramming and crashing into walls doesn't seem to have a negative impact but I take solace in never being more than a car length behind at the finish.
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