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Rank: Racing Permit
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#51 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2020 10:11:32 PM(UTC)
This is quite the take.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#52 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2020 10:35:19 PM(UTC)
To be fair, the General Lee has been (imo unfairly) targeted long before Forza Horizon 4 even came out. In 2015, the show was pulled from TV Land. Then Warner Brothers stopped licensing the production of toy General Lees. Next, CBS pulled the show from their lineup. Now Amazon is considering pulling the show from its library. And of course, we have Forza coming after all in-game General Lees. Yes, I said all. If you think a General Lee based car is safe if it doesn't have the flag, think again.

Even the actors themselves, Ben Jones and John Schneider, agree with the stance most people in this thread are holding. The flag is not the focal point of the car. The show does not promote racism and segregation. Schneider describes the show pulling and General Lee targeting as throwing the "baby out with the bathwater".

Nonetheless, Turn 10 making an exception seems unlikely, and many permissible paints are now in violation of the rules. The best they can do is to gave a grace period for all the paints to be removed without any penalty and to give ample warning in-game. As someone pointed out, the game should point out which paint(s) are offensive so that players can get that much needed heads up to protect their account.

Sadly, the General Lee has yee'd its last haw, and has become an unfortunate victim of woke and cancel culture.

Edited by user Saturday, June 27, 2020 10:38:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#53 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2020 10:51:59 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TransAmConnor Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch63 Go to Quoted Post
You’re mixing country flags with the flag of a failed secession from the United States. Country flags are symbolic of the country itself, learning and growing despite past mistakes. The confederate flag is a flag used by racist to show that they supported the movement of the south during civil war(which was fought because of slavery). Yeah, the general lee uses it, who cares? The show itself may not be racist, that’s not the topic, the flag however is a symbol of racism and suppression.

Why support racist losers? The flag itself is still being used by completely far right racist groups such as the modern KKK and the Proud Boys.


I don't know about America, but I've certainly seen the UK flag being flown at numerous Anti-BLM marches and protests in this country. It's also often touted during actions standing against immigration. Does that mean it's now a racially insensitive flag? I'll be honest, I don't see the difference from where I'm standing.


LOL, if only Theresa May knew what she was getting into with the Brexit...

(yes, you're seeing these flags in anti-BLM protests because of Brexit, only plausible reason for it)
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#54 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:08:00 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xxEmilyxx9170 Go to Quoted Post
Christ it's embarrassing I even have to explain this.

The flag traditionally considered the Confederate flag was ONLY used by the Confederacy in their drive to keep slavery legal and to push their ideals of white supremacy. That's what the civil war was about. The South was feeling threatened by the non-redneck states trying to abolish slavery, and started a war over it.

The Union Jack has been symbolic of the UK for many years. It doesnt stand for one ideology, it stands for the country itself. Waving a country flag at a rally doesnt immediately make that flag representative of whatever ideology is waving it. Otherwise, the US flag has been flown at plenty of white supremacist rallies. By your logic, that makes the US flag a white supremacist flag because some cousin marrying people with 3 teeth decided to take it to their idiotic rally.

The only time the Confederate flag was been used widespread was to represent an army fighting for white supremacy. The fact you somehow dont see the difference is seriously embarrassing, and I'm not even American and I know this.


Abolition of slavery, whether in America or any other country with African slavery bar Haiti, was not really about giving black people freedom, it was because slavery was expensive to capitalist entrepeneurs and black people who earned wages could buy and own products, advancing the market and profits.

It was significant that the capitalist side won, which made matters easier, but the fight for equal civil rights is a fight the black person has had to fight for themself, mostly. The North won, but was also segregated.

Edited by user Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:08:53 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#55 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:08:35 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xxEmilyxx9170 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: WangKeRui Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: The Last Flight Go to Quoted Post
People won't call u racist for driving a Beetle aund ...


Oh yes they will on occasion (well not racist, t it is in the word associated with said meaning), often yes as a joke, but still will be said towards people who drive/own old Volkswagens and/or are fans of them



I can 100% guarantee this has never happened and you're making rubbish up to try and 'win' an argument.


Quoting actual experience, yet you need not believe me, doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Not trying to win anything, don't even see how it is this.

Rank: Racing Permit
 5 users liked this post.
#56 Posted : Saturday, June 27, 2020 11:37:44 PM(UTC)
The issue with the Bentley was if you reduced its weight too much, it no longer qualified as a Heavy Hitter.

That got me in the beginning as well because I was excited to run it. But then experimenting, I found the balance point of what kept it a Heavy Hitter. Forget what it is now, but I ran it a number of times. Have a good tune for it and it ran the event very well.

But back to the Charger issue. I agree with you regarding the symbolism of the car. The car, just like any number of movie and television cars, is its own appeal. It sidesteps the arenas that may surround it. The game also has an entire section of James Bond cars and yet is anyone questioning the views and treatment of women in those movies? So are we glorifying that? No, we just like the cars.
Rank: Racing Permit
#57 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:28:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Konata Inoue Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dR3K0b Go to Quoted Post
If you're going to ban this flag, get rid of the '69 charger as well


And that is where I stopped reading.


Ditto, not sure how that relation was drawned

Edited by user Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:51:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
 1 user liked this post.
#58 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 3:09:16 AM(UTC)
How about you just ban everyone for having a white car?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 7 users liked this post.
#59 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:04:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxEmilyxx9170 Go to Quoted Post
Christ it's embarrassing I even have to explain this.

The flag traditionally considered the Confederate flag was ONLY used by the Confederacy in their drive to keep slavery legal and to push their ideals of white supremacy. That's what the civil war was about. The South was feeling threatened by the non-redneck states trying to abolish slavery, and started a war over it.

The Union Jack has been symbolic of the UK for many years. It doesnt stand for one ideology, it stands for the country itself. Waving a country flag at a rally doesnt immediately make that flag representative of whatever ideology is waving it. Otherwise, the US flag has been flown at plenty of white supremacist rallies. By your logic, that makes the US flag a white supremacist flag because some cousin marrying people with 3 teeth decided to take it to their idiotic rally.

The only time the Confederate flag was been used widespread was to represent an army fighting for white supremacy. The fact you somehow dont see the difference is seriously embarrassing, and I'm not even American and I know this.


Abolition of slavery, whether in America or any other country with African slavery bar Haiti, was not really about giving black people freedom, it was because slavery was expensive to capitalist entrepeneurs and black people who earned wages could buy and own products, advancing the market and profits.

It was significant that the capitalist side won, which made matters easier, but the fight for equal civil rights is a fight the black person has had to fight for themself, mostly. The North won, but was also segregated.


Slavery was never really abolished, just renamed and repackaged. People still do the same work the slaves did, but now it's called a 'job' instead. The capitalists figured out that workers who think they're free are less likely to cause trouble and are more productive. But it's all semantics. Unless you can choose to get up in the morning each day and do whatever you want, rather than going to work for a master, you aren't really any freer than a literal slave, you're just working for a different boss / the bank / your landlord or whomever.

Working conditions very akin to literal slavery exist in various developing countries right now today. The people who build our electronic gadgets or make our clothes for example. In the UK we have multi-millionaire footballers virtue signalling for BLM while they will soon be happy to go and play in the World Cup in football stadiums built by virtual slave labourers from poor third world countries, many of whom died during the construction. There is a lot of double standards and hypocrisy in this world. It is time to live in the present and stop demonising our ancestors.

Edited by user Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:14:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#60 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:14:05 AM(UTC)
I am finding it amusing that one of the daily forzathon quests is 3 air skills and is called "The General".
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#61 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:17:15 AM(UTC)
How about banning ALL POLICE car designs, this is how all this started.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#62 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:25:51 AM(UTC)
Just wondering when anyone will acknowledge the fact that slaves were actually held by Africans before the Europeans took interest.

There seems to be some amnesia by quite a few people in regards to the fact that African American descendants were actually sold by their own countrymen into slavery.

Personally i wish they all (both black and white) accept that the past is gone (you can't change it no matter how much you censorship things) and move on as it seems to me both parties were wrong in one being the seller and the other the buyer.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#63 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 6:46:10 AM(UTC)
Generally, this feels to me like a move that’s designed to be seen to be dong something, rather than something that is actually necessary.

A sensible approach might have been to recognise that there are many Dukes of Hazzard liveries out there which are clearly not racist and ban the flag, except when clearly used in that context. They could even have said that, from the next Forza, use in that context would also be banned.

As it is, I just hope common sense is used. Self-evidently, there’s a fairly strong chance that a lot of people won’t realise that they are breaking rules. Immediate bans would be utterly stupid - warnings to remove are the only appropriate way forwards here.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#64 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:56:15 AM(UTC)
What a stupid thing to do. Only thing its doing is limiting creativity. Same with the swastika, someone would like to do a customized version of Hitler's personal beetle, but OH NO CAN'T HAVE THAT BECAUSE SWASTIKA BAD.
I guess you should also ban Israeli flag since they have been known as slave owners too. Or how about signs of communism and everything related to Stalin who btw were a bigger evil than Hitler.
These attempts at political correctness are always made in such weird fashion that it just makes it obvious that it's only about pretending to care about something or very obvious pushing of their own ideology.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 5 users liked this post.
#65 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:57:04 AM(UTC)
This whole situation reminds me of the South Park episode (Fa La La Your La) when many things were censored from the Christmas play in order to make everyone happy, which in the end, made no one happy.

Edited by user Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:58:27 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#66 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:21:29 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Konata Inoue Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: dR3K0b Go to Quoted Post
If you're going to ban this flag, get rid of the '69 charger as well


And that is where I stopped reading.


Ditto, not sure how that relation was drawned


Cause the flag is mostly known on the general lee. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out..
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Rank: Driver's Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#67 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:50:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: wwwREXwww Go to Quoted Post
Just wondering when anyone will acknowledge the fact that slaves were actually held by Africans before the Europeans took interest.

There seems to be some amnesia by quite a few people in regards to the fact that African American descendants were actually sold by their own countrymen into slavery.

Personally i wish they all (both black and white) accept that the past is gone (you can't change it no matter how much you censorship things) and move on as it seems to me both parties were wrong in one being the seller and the other the buyer.


You know your history. Congrats.

I really recommend people those discovery channel old documentaries about WW2 where the powers that be at that time were burning and destroying the symbols that they thought as evil. Books , paintings, newspapers, flags . After that , i think we all knows how those countries end up. One was communist the other **** .

Hell is paved with good intentions, remember that.

I wish Microsft would talk about Games, but lately it's only about politcs. :(
Rank: Driver's Permit
#68 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:53:09 AM(UTC)
please delete

Edited by user Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:56:06 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#69 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:53:31 AM(UTC)
please delete

Edited by user Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:56:19 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#70 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:11:54 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xxEmilyxx9170 Go to Quoted Post
Christ it's embarrassing I even have to explain this.

The flag traditionally considered the Confederate flag was ONLY used by the Confederacy in their drive to keep slavery legal and to push their ideals of white supremacy. That's what the civil war was about. The South was feeling threatened by the non-redneck states trying to abolish slavery, and started a war over it.

The Union Jack has been symbolic of the UK for many years. It doesnt stand for one ideology, it stands for the country itself. Waving a country flag at a rally doesnt immediately make that flag representative of whatever ideology is waving it. Otherwise, the US flag has been flown at plenty of white supremacist rallies. By your logic, that makes the US flag a white supremacist flag because some cousin marrying people with 3 teeth decided to take it to their idiotic rally.

The only time the Confederate flag was been used widespread was to represent an army fighting for white supremacy. The fact you somehow dont see the difference is seriously embarrassing, and I'm not even American and I know this.


Abolition of slavery, whether in America or any other country with African slavery bar Haiti, was not really about giving black people freedom, it was because slavery was expensive to capitalist entrepeneurs and black people who earned wages could buy and own products, advancing the market and profits.

It was significant that the capitalist side won, which made matters easier, but the fight for equal civil rights is a fight the black person has had to fight for themself, mostly. The North won, but was also segregated.


Slavery was never really abolished, just renamed and repackaged. People still do the same work the slaves did, but now it's called a 'job' instead. The capitalists figured out that workers who think they're free are less likely to cause trouble and are more productive. But it's all semantics. Unless you can choose to get up in the morning each day and do whatever you want, rather than going to work for a master, you aren't really any freer than a literal slave, you're just working for a different boss / the bank / your landlord or whomever.

Working conditions very akin to literal slavery exist in various developing countries right now today. The people who build our electronic gadgets or make our clothes for example. In the UK we have multi-millionaire footballers virtue signalling for BLM while they will soon be happy to go and play in the World Cup in football stadiums built by virtual slave labourers from poor third world countries, many of whom died during the construction. There is a lot of double standards and hypocrisy in this world. It is time to live in the present and stop demonising our ancestors.


"Enslave a man's body, and his mind shall revolt; enslave a man's mind, and his body shall naturally follow." (Laureano de Torres y Ayala, Grandmaster Templar of the Spanish West Indies, Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag)
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#71 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:19:55 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: John Which Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: wwwREXwww Go to Quoted Post
Just wondering when anyone will acknowledge the fact that slaves were actually held by Africans before the Europeans took interest.

There seems to be some amnesia by quite a few people in regards to the fact that African American descendants were actually sold by their own countrymen into slavery.

Personally i wish they all (both black and white) accept that the past is gone (you can't change it no matter how much you censorship things) and move on as it seems to me both parties were wrong in one being the seller and the other the buyer.


You know your history. Congrats.

I really recommend people those discovery channel old documentaries about WW2 where the powers that be at that time were burning and destroying the symbols that they thought as evil. Books , paintings, newspapers, flags . After that , i think we all knows how those countries end up. One was communist the other **** .

Hell is paved with good intentions, remember that.

I wish Microsft would talk about Games, but lately it's only about politcs. :(


The same was done in America, you just don't remember, because McCarthy made sure to eradicate his opposition.
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: Moderator
#72 Posted : Sunday, June 28, 2020 1:11:29 PM(UTC)
As stated in Forza Support's tweet, the purpose of banning notorious iconography is to create a safe, secure, inclusive, and enjoyable experience for all players. If you see something in the game that runs counter to that statement, or have feedback regarding enforcement policies, your best course of action is to submit a ticket at Forza Support. Since this thread has gone off-topic from FH4 features and policy, I'm locking it.
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