Rank: D-Class Racing License
#1 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:48:26 AM(UTC)
for online i see them race and or there iz no point to drift online to race a grand master if i am always 2nd but half of hiz point i could of been first and worked my way faster becuz i am first rite i get more points so they just take over the point to play it....

so i dont

if you want to keep the grandmasters online then have it where once you are a grandmaster you can only race other grandmasters online....

Edited by user Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:49:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Legend
#2 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 1:55:46 AM(UTC)
What
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#3 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 2:02:59 AM(UTC)
You are getting more points for beating players that are ranked higher than you. If you are rank 1 you will advance to grandmaster quicker when you beat them. Grandmaster is the pinnacle of online racing so it's only natural they are harder to beat.
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#4 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 2:45:16 AM(UTC)
It’s a little hard to follow but is the OP requesting that anyone who reaches GM level is banned from online racing because they are too good and are taking away his points?
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#5 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 2:55:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
It’s a little hard to follow but is the OP requesting that anyone who reaches GM level is banned from online racing because they are too good and are taking away his points?


I think he doesn't want Grandmasters in his lobby as they are stealing his ranked points and feels they should only race themselves.
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#6 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 3:02:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
You are getting more points for beating players that are ranked higher than you. If you are rank 1 you will advance to grandmaster quicker when you beat them. Grandmaster is the pinnacle of online racing so it's only natural they are harder to beat.


Also if the lobby has top players then you will still rank up even if you finish in lower positions, at least that's how it was when I did the ranked drifting. The standard was very high, I never made it higher than level 9 as I recall.
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#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 9, 2020 7:26:47 AM(UTC)
Moving the grand master to a separate area cannot be the solution.
it is just a challenge to compete against grandmasters and possibly win against them.
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#8 Posted : Wednesday, June 10, 2020 10:53:23 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
It’s a little hard to follow but is the OP requesting that anyone who reaches GM level is banned from online racing because they are too good and are taking away his points?

He does actually have a valid point if his rating is really half of someone else's in the lobby. ELO and TrueSkill don't work well when you have a large difference in rating, because they don't look at the margin of victory, just a binary win/lose. So you never want to be in the same race as someone who will beat you, because you never get any credit for being closer to them than the rating gap implies.

This is why GT Sport has scheduled races, to concentrate players into specific races, so that each "split" in a time slot has a tighter spread of ratings. It achieves this best in the FIA races rather than the daily races. Nonetheless, there was an FIA race yesterday where the last time slot wasn't very popular, causing some much lower rated drivers than usual to get into top split, and those players basically couldn't possibly achieve a good outcome from the race. They were expected to be over a second a lap slower than the top people based on the rating gap, but when the race plays out as expected, the winners are still seen as outperforming their rating, and the losers are still seen as underperforming their rating, even though they've all in fact just performed as expected. Because FH4 doesn't have scheduled races, it's much more common to have that sort of rating disparity, and the OP is correct that it makes it a bit of a waste of time for all concerned, because of the fact that the game only takes into account whether you win or lose, not how the margin compares to the rating difference.
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#9 Posted : Wednesday, June 10, 2020 3:33:01 PM(UTC)
read....
Rank: Racing Legend
#10 Posted : Wednesday, June 10, 2020 3:40:44 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ritemare Go to Quoted Post
read....


What ???

So if someone is better than you they should get banned
Is that what you mean ??

Edited by user Wednesday, June 10, 2020 8:17:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#11 Posted : Thursday, June 11, 2020 2:35:26 AM(UTC)
Bree - I’m not sure I totally follow that. I can see if you have 11 highly ranked players in a lobby and 1 low ranked player there’s little benefit for the low ranked player who, at best, will get 0 points for finishing last. However, one GM in a race isn’t going to drastically affect the rest of the players’ points. The person finishing 2nd will get very similar points to what they would have got if the GM was not in the race at all in my experience. Of course, if they happen to beat the GM, they will get big points as a result.
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#12 Posted : Thursday, June 11, 2020 3:54:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Bree - I’m not sure I totally follow that. I can see if you have 11 highly ranked players in a lobby and 1 low ranked player there’s little benefit for the low ranked player who, at best, will get 0 points for finishing last. However, one GM in a race isn’t going to drastically affect the rest of the players’ points. The person finishing 2nd will get very similar points to what they would have got if the GM was not in the race at all in my experience. Of course, if they happen to beat the GM, they will get big points as a result.

What I mean is, if you're rated at 3000, say, and your true level is 4000, then if you race against a load of people who are 2500-3500, then on average you'll win or finish high up, and gain rating. In the extreme case of racing against 11 people at 5000, as you say, they're not likely to do well. If there's just one, then I don't know the exact formula to know the effect on rating in FH4, but in GTS, you never want to lose to a higher rated player, you're always better off winning. Adding just one higher rated player who beats you in an FIA race will always cost you points, i.e. you lose more points due to coming 2nd than the higher rated player adds to the lobby points.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:20:52 AM(UTC)
When I was doing ranked drift I seem to remember gaining a lot of points even finishing like 6th or 7th, if the people ahead were a lot higher rank. I ended up at level 9-10 where my finishing positions weren't enough to gain or lose many points and I stopped playing there because it was getting pretty boring anyway.

The OP has still yet to effectively articulate what he wants exactly.

Edited by user Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:45:55 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#14 Posted : Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:50:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
What I mean is, if you're rated at 3000, say, and your true level is 4000, then if you race against a load of people who are 2500-3500, then on average you'll win or finish high up, and gain rating. In the extreme case of racing against 11 people at 5000, as you say, they're not likely to do well. If there's just one, then I don't know the exact formula to know the effect on rating in FH4, but in GTS, you never want to lose to a higher rated player, you're always better off winning. Adding just one higher rated player who beats you in an FIA race will always cost you points, i.e. you lose more points due to coming 2nd than the higher rated player adds to the lobby points.

Bree you can't compare it to GTS. Because it calculate points base on finishing position yes but more than that the opponent strength. You can finish first in all events and still get zero points if the opponents are 3-4 ranks lower than you. At the same time you get tons of points if you beat higher ranks even if you don't finish on podium. Different game, different system.

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#15 Posted : Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:10:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
The OP has still yet to effectively articulate what he wants exactly.

He's describing his perceived problem, not proposing a solution. Realistically, the only way to limit grandmasters to only playing against each other is with scheduled races, combined with some longer term incentive to take part in those races, such as a championship that the races count towards. I think we'll see more and more racing games with that sort of structure. I can't recall anyone ever regarding it as a bad thing in the games that already have it.
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#16 Posted : Thursday, June 11, 2020 9:29:39 AM(UTC)
please do not forget, this game is still a game for everyone and not for pro's only.

there is a small part with ranked races inside, but the biggest part of players are outside of this area. thats also the reason why some things arent fixed. it is more important to paint screws in the right color than fixing long term issues.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Thursday, June 11, 2020 12:00:19 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ritemare Go to Quoted Post
read....


What ???

So if someone is better than you they should get banned
Is that what you mean ??


read means i read this topics posts....

when you become grandmaster you have done your job....

if the drift race counts who iz first why then have a grandmaster if i just started....

and i am 2nd all day....

Edited by user Thursday, June 11, 2020 12:01:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: X-Class Racing License
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#18 Posted : Friday, June 12, 2020 3:43:03 AM(UTC)
So just because they are a Grandmaster they are done with ranked and should quit playing it? Paving the way for people with less skill to move up?

You won't improve if you do not race against people better than you, that's just how it works.
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#19 Posted : Sunday, June 14, 2020 4:45:33 PM(UTC)
Unfortunetaly Fh4 ranked is not populated enough to have a elo based matchmaking. Its actually quite bad a low lvl guy has to race against grandmaster. Skill levels should increase and decrease gradually as the player gets better or worse.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#20 Posted : Monday, June 15, 2020 1:08:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
The OP has still yet to effectively articulate what he wants exactly.

He's describing his perceived problem, not proposing a solution. Realistically, the only way to limit grandmasters to only playing against each other is with scheduled races, combined with some longer term incentive to take part in those races, such as a championship that the races count towards. I think we'll see more and more racing games with that sort of structure. I can't recall anyone ever regarding it as a bad thing in the games that already have it.


Unless drift is very different from the other game types, it’s a fairly odd problem.There seems to be a limit of 100 GMs at any one time and, in general, the rankings seem to have a pyramid type shape, with very few players at the top ranks and vast numbers lower down. What this means is that there’s a problem for the top guys to find proper match ups, whereas people of, say, League 10 level should be matched up mostly with players of their own level. They will only see the occasional GM when the game can’t find an appropriate game for the GM.

I agree with you that having specific times/events would be good for the top guys but I think I’d want that as an add on to the general ranked process. Where, of course, I’m sure we all agree is that there could be big improvements generally in the points and matchmaking approach in future games.

On the actual “problem”, as has been said already, even in the unlikely event that Ritrmare has a GM in every race, it’s only going to have a very minor effect on the points he’s gaining if he’s beating everyone else. He’s still gong to move up the rankings swiftly with those results.

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#21 Posted : Monday, June 15, 2020 12:23:02 PM(UTC)
It's called competition.

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