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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#26 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:06:30 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: grolschie Go to Quoted Post
Previously people were moaning and bleating about the Boneshaker. Is it not a threat anymore?

The Boneshaker and Track-Tor were banned from rivals and online racing.

The Atomic Punk actually seems to me like it might even be faster on tarmac than the Bone Shaker was. Certainly it has a much higher top speed, which was a huge weakness of the Bone Shaker.
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#27 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:32:53 PM(UTC)
Yes, people were moaning about the Bone Shaker. And they are about Atomic Punk now. And they would about Nova '69 if the Punk got banned. And then they would moan about Roadster after Nova would get banned. And then about TZ2. And then about Shelby. And the list goes on.

It's usually the people who think they're only losing because their opponents are in faster cars. But when they take those cars, they still lose and blame the game again. It's a pointless endless discussion.
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#28 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 6:40:56 PM(UTC)
Road racing maybe but Bubble top is stupidly strong at A class dirt racing.
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#29 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 11:40:20 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clamz0r Go to Quoted Post
Yes, people were moaning about the Bone Shaker. And they are about Atomic Punk now. And they would about Nova '69 if the Punk got banned. And then they would moan about Roadster after Nova would get banned. And then about TZ2. And then about Shelby. And the list goes on.

Yes and no. IMO Nova, TZ2 and shelby aren't broken so much as BS, TT, AT or BT.
On the other side I am using TZ2 and Nova for A-class road (for dirt I use Manta or one of the older Ford Escorts). Smells a bit like hypocrisy. I wish I could have more competetive variety.
I would like to add that it is possible that for me it may have something with immersion. Like, do you really think that BS or AP would be that good racer IRL?
That is rhetorical question. I know that it is a game, not real life. But I prefer to think about it as something closer to reality ;)

Originally Posted by: Clamz0r Go to Quoted Post
It's usually the people who think they're only losing because their opponents are in faster cars. But when they take those cars, they still lose and blame the game again. It's a pointless endless discussion.

I feel trully offended by this. My BS and TT have like 3kms on it. Roadster have more, becuase I was using it for Rivals Challange. Bubble and Atomic aren't even in my garage. And I consider myself a pretty good driver.
I know that world doesn't end on me, but your assumption is wrong.
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#30 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 12:09:39 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
Road racing maybe but Bubble top is stupidly strong at A class dirt racing.

You're absolutely correct. It's the best A class dirt racing car overall. However, there are multiple dirt adventures where cars such as Ariel Nomad, Ford Roadster, Ford Raptor '17, Shelby Daytona/Alfa Romeo TZ2 and even something like Quartz Regalia can compete really well or even have the edge when looking at the tracks playlist as a whole, especially if it's in winter too. As a matter of fact, I'll be doing another unranked to Grandmaster challenge soon and this time I will not use a single meta car, I'm confident enough that unless you go up against some of the best dirt drivers in FFA, there are several other viable car choices, just like the time when people used Atomic Punk to beat Bone Shaker while many drivers didn't even know about that car.

Originally Posted by: ziperrPL Go to Quoted Post
Yes and no. IMO Nova, TZ2 and shelby aren't broken so much as BS, TT, AT or BT.
On the other side I am using TZ2 and Nova for A-class road (for dirt I use Manta or one of the older Ford Escorts). Smells a bit like hypocrisy. I wish I could have more competetive variety.
I would like to add that it is possible that for me it may have something with immersion. Like, do you really think that BS or AP would be that good racer IRL?
That is rhetorical question. I know that it is a game, not real life. But I prefer to think about it as something closer to reality ;)

They're definitely not broken, you're right - but when you eliminate the other top car choices, people will just find another thing that will be used the most when current meta car gets banned. It's a never ending circle. Banning cars is never a good solution because people paid money for this game and they should be allowed to drive what they want. I hate meta cars as much as the next person and would love to see them gone, but that's kinda **** way to handle it. Not that I expect more from PG anyway, they always take the easy way out.

Originally Posted by: ziperrPL Go to Quoted Post
I feel trully offended by this. My BS and TT have like 3kms on it. Roadster have more, becuase I was using it for Rivals Challange. Bubble and Atomic aren't even in my garage. And I consider myself a pretty good driver.
I know that world doesn't end on me, but your assumption is wrong.

Sorry if I offended you, I didn't mean to call out anyone in particular which is why I wrote "usually". I see it over and over again both on this forum and reddit and then you run into these people in ranked and they're either driving the most random **** and wonder why they're not competitive or they go with meta and still post relatively slow lap times and complain because someone else is just better with a meta car. I'm confused why anyone would take ranked seriously if they're not bringing THE best cars. It's a bad anology but to give you an example, why aren't tennis players using $10 Walmart racket instead of their top tier gear? Because they're competing at the highest level of competition and are using the best stuff they have available. People entering ranked with with random **** like Caddy Limo and their quick 5 minute in-house tunes expecting to do good shouldn't even be taken seriously.

Edited by user Thursday, May 7, 2020 12:11:27 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#31 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:20:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ziperrPL Go to Quoted Post
They're definitely not broken, you're right - but when you eliminate the other top car choices, people will just find another thing that will be used the most when current meta car gets banned. It's a never ending circle.Banning cars is never a good solution because people paid money for this game and they should be allowed to drive what they want. I hate meta cars as much as the next person and would love to see them gone, but that's kinda **** way to handle it. Not that I expect more from PG anyway, they always take the easy way out.


I agree that banning these cars are not the right solution. I would like to propose the increment of PI for these cars. Increase the base PI of the TrackTor and Boneshaker to mid-S1. Increase the base PI of the Shelby close to upper - A class so that it won't dominate in B Rally. Increase the base PI of the Bubbletop to mid-S1. By doing so pushes these cars in a more balanced class based on their performance. However, they should be able to take advantage based on their base PI.

I tune cars for team games and the Hoonigan is really a nuisance there and I believe it dominates S2 Rally rivals. I believe the base PI should be pushed to above 950, so that other vehicles like the #2 Audi S1 Quattro will be a good viable option againsts possible S2 Subarus and Mitsubishis. Though, it makes no difference if the majority uses SUV for rally events.

Edited by user Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:22:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#32 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 4:49:45 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ziperrPL Go to Quoted Post
They're definitely not broken, you're right - but when you eliminate the other top car choices, people will just find another thing that will be used the most when current meta car gets banned. It's a never ending circle.Banning cars is never a good solution because people paid money for this game and they should be allowed to drive what they want. I hate meta cars as much as the next person and would love to see them gone, but that's kinda **** way to handle it. Not that I expect more from PG anyway, they always take the easy way out.


I agree that banning these cars are not the right solution. I would like to propose the increment of PI for these cars. Increase the base PI of the TrackTor and Boneshaker to mid-S1. Increase the base PI of the Shelby close to upper - A class so that it won't dominate in B Rally. Increase the base PI of the Bubbletop to mid-S1. By doing so pushes these cars in a more balanced class based on their performance. However, they should be able to take advantage based on their base PI.

Track tor and bone shaker are OP because how awd swap works in this game. Awd swap should increase the PI not decrease it.
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#33 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 5:47:28 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
Track tor and bone shaker are OP because how awd swap works in this game. Awd swap should increase the PI not decrease it.


I did think about this though, but decided against suggesting it as many cars, not all of them have unique PI upgrades when the drivetrains are swapped to AWD. I've funny feeling that if the entire system would need to be revamped in order to solve this issue.

I doubt anything will happen to both cars, now that the issue has been solved in their opinion. However, the base PI is individually tied to each car in most cases, and should be independent of engine swaps.

Edited by user Thursday, May 7, 2020 5:48:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#34 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:15:11 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
However, the base PI is individually tied to each car in most cases, and should be independent of engine swaps.

Do we know that cars have a base PI? It's not clear to me that it has to work like that, based on what we can observe from playing the game. The effect of any upgrade isn't fixed, it varies with what other upgrades are present. The game seems to calculate the effect on performance, for example swapping to AWD can reduce PI when a car has so much grip that the rear tyres aren't going to break traction, as the extra weight is just a disadvantage. But the exact same car, once other upgrades are added, will increase PI when swapping to AWD, because now the game knows the RWD car is limited by rear wheel grip and AWD will make it faster. So it's not at all clear to me that each car has a base PI internally, it seems more like the game does some sort of performance calculation for the whole package and that determines the PI.

You can tell from looking at some of the game's data that there are issues with consistency in some of the stats. When tuning, you can see figures for G at 60mph and 120mph. But these don't match what it shows when choosing tyres, i.e. swapping from tyre A to tyre B, the game says grip is reduced, yet when you do it, the G figures increase. I think it's entirely possible that the issues with some cars performing better at the same PI are caused by simple bugs such as that in the performance calculation, causing it to incorrectly assess the performance of e.g. unusually narrow front tyres.
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#35 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:06:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
[quote=ziperrPL;1159209] I tune cars for team games and the Hoonigan is really a nuisance there and I believe it dominates S2 Rally rivals. I believe the base PI should be pushed to above 950, so that other vehicles like the #2 Audi S1 Quattro will be a good viable option againsts possible S2 Subarus and Mitsubishis. Though, it makes no difference if the majority uses SUV for rally events.

Wrong. Hoonigan Rs200 uses a different kind of tyre then the regular rally tyres that has more grip on both asphalt and dirt. It makes sense that it domintes S2 rally because no other car has option to access that tyre. Is it OP? No because S2 rally is not a competitive class. Hoonigan Rs200 is not very strong in S2 road racing even if its winter. If you nerf it its going to be useless in S2 road racing.

Edited by user Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:08:35 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#36 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 1:23:56 PM(UTC)
OK, as it is new "in game year" and everyone is doing ranked adventure. So did I.
I was in convoy - 2 GM, 2 rank 3, 2 ppl with lower rank. Anyway decent team.
We did like 20+ team ranked adventures. Lost 3.

The task is to guess in how many advemtures more than 2 Atomic Punk was present?

PS. Not to mention that only time my points saved (people leaving in the middle of adventure) was in 2 lost races and in 2 won races. So at this moment balance is -10points. I feel robbed :(
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#37 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 3:08:35 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: grolschie Go to Quoted Post
Previously people were moaning and bleating about the Boneshaker. Is it not a threat anymore?

The Boneshaker and Track-Tor were banned from rivals and online racing.


Say what?! When was this?

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#38 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 3:18:22 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: grolschie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: grolschie Go to Quoted Post
Previously people were moaning and bleating about the Boneshaker. Is it not a threat anymore?

The Boneshaker and Track-Tor were banned from rivals and online racing.


Say what?! When was this?



Months ago. Bone Shaker is still usable in online custom races though.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#39 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 3:23:43 PM(UTC)
Give it 50 more PI, let's see if it still wins then.

Cars like these expose the game's limitations. Forza's PI system is not a "set and forget thing", it needs some manual tweak. FH4 won't get a new PI system, so manual tweak is the way to go.

If we start banning everything then let's make all online races cycled production (which would be nice, actually).

Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
[quote=ziperrPL;1159209] I tune cars for team games and the Hoonigan is really a nuisance there and I believe it dominates S2 Rally rivals. I believe the base PI should be pushed to above 950, so that other vehicles like the #2 Audi S1 Quattro will be a good viable option againsts possible S2 Subarus and Mitsubishis. Though, it makes no difference if the majority uses SUV for rally events.

Wrong. Hoonigan Rs200 uses a different kind of tyre then the regular rally tyres that has more grip on both asphalt and dirt. It makes sense that it domintes S2 rally because no other car has option to access that tyre. Is it OP? No because S2 rally is not a competitive class. Hoonigan Rs200 is not very strong in S2 road racing even if its winter. If you nerf it its going to be useless in S2 road racing.


Do you know whether the Hoonigan Cosworth uses this tire as well? I remember having a bad time with it on wet mud.

As for TG, the RS200 is good at it because, well, why wouldn't it? Great acceleration, compact, rally suspension...

Edited by user Thursday, May 7, 2020 3:26:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#40 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:07:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
However, the base PI is individually tied to each car in most cases, and should be independent of engine swaps.

Do we know that cars have a base PI? It's not clear to me that it has to work like that, based on what we can observe from playing the game. The effect of any upgrade isn't fixed, it varies with what other upgrades are present. The game seems to calculate the effect on performance, for example swapping to AWD can reduce PI when a car has so much grip that the rear tyres aren't going to break traction, as the extra weight is just a disadvantage. But the exact same car, once other upgrades are added, will increase PI when swapping to AWD, because now the game knows the RWD car is limited by rear wheel grip and AWD will make it faster. So it's not at all clear to me that each car has a base PI internally, it seems more like the game does some sort of performance calculation for the whole package and that determines the PI.

You can tell from looking at some of the game's data that there are issues with consistency in some of the stats. When tuning, you can see figures for G at 60mph and 120mph. But these don't match what it shows when choosing tyres, i.e. swapping from tyre A to tyre B, the game says grip is reduced, yet when you do it, the G figures increase. I think it's entirely possible that the issues with some cars performing better at the same PI are caused by simple bugs such as that in the performance calculation, causing it to incorrectly assess the performance of e.g. unusually narrow front tyres.


I apologise for the confusion. What I was referring to was the stock PI value - not a tuned cars. Regardless of the parts, incrementing the base PI based on stock parts by a certain value will push it closer to the upper limit of the respective class as well as limiting its upgrade options. This in return, should be less work than to rework the PI based on the car's upgrade options as well as minimise the potential (imo) of accidently boosting or reducing the overall performance of other cars with AWD swaps.

Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
[quote=ziperrPL;1159209] I tune cars for team games and the Hoonigan is really a nuisance there and I believe it dominates S2 Rally rivals. I believe the base PI should be pushed to above 950, so that other vehicles like the #2 Audi S1 Quattro will be a good viable option againsts possible S2 Subarus and Mitsubishis. Though, it makes no difference if the majority uses SUV for rally events.


Wrong. Hoonigan Rs200 uses a different kind of tyre then the regular rally tyres that has more grip on both asphalt and dirt. It makes sense that it domintes S2 rally because no other car has option to access that tyre. Is it OP? No because S2 rally is not a competitive class. Hoonigan Rs200 is not very strong in S2 road racing even if its winter. If you nerf it its going to be useless in S2 road racing.


I'm really confused as to what did I say that was incorrect. I didn't mentioned about tyres once, neither did I touch road racing. Just taking a look back at S2 Rally Rivals, there's a good healthy mix of TVRs and other vehicles besides the Hoonigan RS200. I recommended increasing the PI, not nerfing the overall package, similar to the issue with the Bubbletop. Hence, the car should be usable in races - though its quite rare to see one in one.

Going back to the topic - incrementing the base / stock PI of the Bubbletop by about 20 PI should negate its positive points on certain tracks. If this can be achieved with ease which I doubt so.
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#41 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 7:31:14 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
However, the base PI is individually tied to each car in most cases, and should be independent of engine swaps.

Do we know that cars have a base PI? It's not clear to me that it has to work like that, based on what we can observe from playing the game. The effect of any upgrade isn't fixed, it varies with what other upgrades are present. The game seems to calculate the effect on performance, for example swapping to AWD can reduce PI when a car has so much grip that the rear tyres aren't going to break traction, as the extra weight is just a disadvantage. But the exact same car, once other upgrades are added, will increase PI when swapping to AWD, because now the game knows the RWD car is limited by rear wheel grip and AWD will make it faster. So it's not at all clear to me that each car has a base PI internally, it seems more like the game does some sort of performance calculation for the whole package and that determines the PI.

You can tell from looking at some of the game's data that there are issues with consistency in some of the stats. When tuning, you can see figures for G at 60mph and 120mph. But these don't match what it shows when choosing tyres, i.e. swapping from tyre A to tyre B, the game says grip is reduced, yet when you do it, the G figures increase. I think it's entirely possible that the issues with some cars performing better at the same PI are caused by simple bugs such as that in the performance calculation, causing it to incorrectly assess the performance of e.g. unusually narrow front tyres.


I apologise for the confusion. What I was referring to was the stock PI value - not a tuned cars. Regardless of the parts, incrementing the base PI based on stock parts by a certain value will push it closer to the upper limit of the respective class as well as limiting its upgrade options. This in return, should be less work than to rework the PI based on the car's upgrade options as well as minimise the potential (imo) of accidently boosting or reducing the overall performance of other cars with AWD swaps.

Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
[quote=ziperrPL;1159209] I tune cars for team games and the Hoonigan is really a nuisance there and I believe it dominates S2 Rally rivals. I believe the base PI should be pushed to above 950, so that other vehicles like the #2 Audi S1 Quattro will be a good viable option againsts possible S2 Subarus and Mitsubishis. Though, it makes no difference if the majority uses SUV for rally events.


Wrong. Hoonigan Rs200 uses a different kind of tyre then the regular rally tyres that has more grip on both asphalt and dirt. It makes sense that it domintes S2 rally because no other car has option to access that tyre. Is it OP? No because S2 rally is not a competitive class. Hoonigan Rs200 is not very strong in S2 road racing even if its winter. If you nerf it its going to be useless in S2 road racing.


I'm really confused as to what did I say that was incorrect. I didn't mentioned about tyres once, neither did I touch road racing. Just taking a look back at S2 Rally Rivals, there's a good healthy mix of TVRs and other vehicles besides the Hoonigan RS200. I recommended increasing the PI, not nerfing the overall package, similar to the issue with the Bubbletop. Hence, the car should be usable in races - though its quite rare to see one in one.

Going back to the topic - incrementing the base / stock PI of the Bubbletop by about 20 PI should negate its positive points on certain tracks. If this can be achieved with ease which I doubt so.

Rivals is not the place for balancing the cars. Rivals is not a competitive gamemode. S2 dirt is not a competitive class. Whats next? Are we going to nerf a car just because its strong in a non-competitive gamemode and a non-competitive class? Hoonigan Rs200 is a below average car in any ranked S2 race. Nerfing it will going to make the car useless. Go and compare Hoonigan Rs200 with Ferrari 599xx e and tell me which one needs nerf.

Atomic punk over performs in A class dirt race and also very strong in A class road races. Im totally okay with nerfing it but nerfing only atomic punk wont going to fix the problem. Alfa Tz2, Daytona, Nova FE, Ford roadster also needs to tone down along with Atomic punk.
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#42 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:37:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post

Rivals is not the place for balancing the cars. Rivals is not a competitive gamemode. S2 dirt is not a competitive class. Whats next? Are we going to nerf a car just because its strong in a non-competitive gamemode and a non-competitive class? Hoonigan Rs200 is a below average car in any ranked S2 race. Nerfing it will going to make the car useless. Go and compare Hoonigan Rs200 with Ferrari 599xx e and tell me which one needs nerf.



Wat? Rivals/Time attack is the mode with the least amount of variables and thus by design the most competitive. The track, your car, you. No excuses.
If the cars should be balanced with a focus on Rivals is a completely different question. Given the current state of online racing in Horizon I would say no.

The tracks are too short for sportsmanlike overtaking crediting the start, starting position and launching speed of cars a much higher importance than in Rivals.
The short races also promote aggressive racing which is easier to counter with AWD.
The fact a lot of races are on wet conditions doesn't help FWD and RWD either.

The online racing environment taken into account FWD and RWD cars would have to outperform AWD in Rivals by miles to be equally competent in online racing.
I'm currently working on my S1 Excel list with lap times done on my own test track. Aside from some exceptions the results show that the balancing for S1 road/street racing theoretically works (can't be said about A800 or S2). It simply doesn't do so in online racing.

Edited by user Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:40:49 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#43 Posted : Friday, May 8, 2020 6:45:09 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post

Rivals is not the place for balancing the cars. Rivals is not a competitive gamemode. S2 dirt is not a competitive class. Whats next? Are we going to nerf a car just because its strong in a non-competitive gamemode and a non-competitive class? Hoonigan Rs200 is a below average car in any ranked S2 race. Nerfing it will going to make the car useless. Go and compare Hoonigan Rs200 with Ferrari 599xx e and tell me which one needs nerf.



Wat? Rivals/Time attack is the mode with the least amount of variables and thus by design the most competitive. The track, your car, you. No excuses.
If the cars should be balanced with a focus on Rivals is a completely different question. Given the current state of online racing in Horizon I would say no.

The tracks are too short for sportsmanlike overtaking crediting the start, starting position and launching speed of cars a much higher importance than in Rivals.
The short races also promote aggressive racing which is easier to counter with AWD.
The fact a lot of races are on wet conditions doesn't help FWD and RWD either.

The online racing environment taken into account FWD and RWD cars would have to outperform AWD in Rivals by miles to be equally competent in online racing.
I'm currently working on my S1 Excel list with lap times done on my own test track. Aside from some exceptions the results show that the balancing for S1 road/street racing theoretically works (can't be said about A800 or S2). It simply doesn't do so in online racing.

Nope Rivals is not competitive. If we are going to look at rivals for balancing then rwd power builds are overpowered and needs nerf. But no Rwd power builds nowhere near overpowered in reality.

Asking for Hoonigan Rs200 is nerf is just dumb when Daytona, Tz2, Roadster, Nova Fe, Atomic punk dominates ranked gamemodes.

Edited by user Friday, May 8, 2020 8:50:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#44 Posted : Sunday, May 10, 2020 4:59:48 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: grolschie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: grolschie Go to Quoted Post
Previously people were moaning and bleating about the Boneshaker. Is it not a threat anymore?

The Boneshaker and Track-Tor were banned from rivals and online racing.


Say what?! When was this?



Months ago. Bone Shaker is still usable in online custom races though.


Banning cars from online is just absolutely poor effort by the developers!!

I only realised this was a massive problem with Forza when playing FM6 online the other day and I couldn't find the car I had just tuned up. Then I googled and found a massive list of FM7 banned cars!! What the heck?! Makes me reluctant to buy FM8 if/when it comes.


Anyhoo, what other cars are banned from online in FH4?

Edited by user Sunday, May 10, 2020 5:00:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
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#45 Posted : Sunday, May 10, 2020 7:36:19 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: grolschie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: grolschie Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: grolschie Go to Quoted Post
Previously people were moaning and bleating about the Boneshaker. Is it not a threat anymore?

The Boneshaker and Track-Tor were banned from rivals and online racing.


Say what?! When was this?



Months ago. Bone Shaker is still usable in online custom races though.


Banning cars from online is just absolutely poor effort by the developers!!

I only realised this was a massive problem with Forza when playing FM6 online the other day and I couldn't find the car I had just tuned up. Then I googled and found a massive list of FM7 banned cars!! What the heck?! Makes me reluctant to buy FM8 if/when it comes.


Anyhoo, what other cars are banned from online in FH4?

Bone Shaker and Tractor only.

Imho those cars needs to be nerfed and reintroduce to the online.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#46 Posted : Sunday, May 10, 2020 9:03:09 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post

Rivals is not the place for balancing the cars. Rivals is not a competitive gamemode. S2 dirt is not a competitive class. Whats next? Are we going to nerf a car just because its strong in a non-competitive gamemode and a non-competitive class? Hoonigan Rs200 is a below average car in any ranked S2 race. Nerfing it will going to make the car useless. Go and compare Hoonigan Rs200 with Ferrari 599xx e and tell me which one needs nerf.



Wat? Rivals/Time attack is the mode with the least amount of variables and thus by design the most competitive. The track, your car, you. No excuses.
If the cars should be balanced with a focus on Rivals is a completely different question. Given the current state of online racing in Horizon I would say no.

The tracks are too short for sportsmanlike overtaking crediting the start, starting position and launching speed of cars a much higher importance than in Rivals.
The short races also promote aggressive racing which is easier to counter with AWD.
The fact a lot of races are on wet conditions doesn't help FWD and RWD either.

The online racing environment taken into account FWD and RWD cars would have to outperform AWD in Rivals by miles to be equally competent in online racing.
I'm currently working on my S1 Excel list with lap times done on my own test track. Aside from some exceptions the results show that the balancing for S1 road/street racing theoretically works (can't be said about A800 or S2). It simply doesn't do so in online racing.


Fully agree with you Rayne, I guess the disagreement comes from rivals not having ramming & blocking being solo or team based strategies ...

I just hope we will never come back to TrackTor racing which is, to me, like everyone having the mariokart rocket vehicle all the time ... no sense of having a garage then ...


I guess we will soon have another occurrence of 'there will always be a best car' argument even though it is not the issue to be solved.







Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#47 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2020 1:23:57 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
Rivals is not the place for balancing the cars. Rivals is not a competitive gamemode. S2 dirt is not a competitive class. Whats next? Are we going to nerf a car just because its strong in a non-competitive gamemode and a non-competitive class? Hoonigan Rs200 is a below average car in any ranked S2 race. Nerfing it will going to make the car useless. Go and compare Hoonigan Rs200 with Ferrari 599xx e and tell me which one needs nerf.

Atomic punk over performs in A class dirt race and also very strong in A class road races. Im totally okay with nerfing it but nerfing only atomic punk wont going to fix the problem. Alfa Tz2, Daytona, Nova FE, Ford roadster also needs to tone down along with Atomic punk.


Rivals is competitive but it's not the same meta. In Rivals an RWD car can shine, because fastest time is by flying lap, but it's very hard for that to happen in ranked, norm is AWD because it's impossible to match the grip of AWD. In Rivals what matters is fastest, not consistency, hence why RS200 is not very good racer, because it's very hard to control, but it will destroy Rivals, because all it takes is one fast lap among thousands failed ones to top the LBs. But these differences do not invalidate Rivals as a test of speed.
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#48 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2020 2:04:20 PM(UTC)
I know Horizon is much more casual than Motorsport but more options for online racing would be a very simple fix, more adventures such as

RWD/FWD
Decades
Factory Spec where everyone drives the same car.

That would let those who can't function without their precious OP AWD cars such as this (which I have happily not encountered in my 1 and only monthly adventure I do every series) stay with them and battle each other while everyone interested in variety and actual car control could leave them to it and have a much more enjoyable experience.

Though with the short length of races a Factory Spec adventure would be largely decided by how lucky you were with your starting positions, much like a lot of adventures are.

But as I always say if we started on the same spot (which I can't understand why it hasn't been implemented since everyone is ghosted at the start anyway now) that wouldn't be a problem.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#49 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2020 2:55:19 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
In Rivals an RWD car can shine, because fastest time is by flying lap


Sometimes RWD is competitive in rivals on sprint courses too. But you are right that it's no good for races as the launch and initial acceleration are very slow compared to AWD, then you have to overtake the whole pack which is all but impossible usually. (I have done it in the King Cobra in unranked which was fun but not good for general racing.)
Rank: Racing Permit
#50 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2020 3:08:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
Rivals is not the place for balancing the cars. Rivals is not a competitive gamemode. S2 dirt is not a competitive class. Whats next? Are we going to nerf a car just because its strong in a non-competitive gamemode and a non-competitive class? Hoonigan Rs200 is a below average car in any ranked S2 race. Nerfing it will going to make the car useless. Go and compare Hoonigan Rs200 with Ferrari 599xx e and tell me which one needs nerf.

Atomic punk over performs in A class dirt race and also very strong in A class road races. Im totally okay with nerfing it but nerfing only atomic punk wont going to fix the problem. Alfa Tz2, Daytona, Nova FE, Ford roadster also needs to tone down along with Atomic punk.


Rivals is competitive but it's not the same meta. In Rivals an RWD car can shine, because fastest time is by flying lap, but it's very hard for that to happen in ranked, norm is AWD because it's impossible to match the grip of AWD. In Rivals what matters is fastest, not consistency, hence why RS200 is not very good racer, because it's very hard to control, but it will destroy Rivals, because all it takes is one fast lap among thousands failed ones to top the LBs. But these differences do not invalidate Rivals as a test of speed.


Hoonigan Rs200 is not very hard to drive. In ranked meta its useless anywhere but winter. Not because its hard car to drive because its useless anywhere but dirt and snow. It has low top speed and cornering ability. Since there is no ranked dirt race in S2 that really decrease the amount of place that Hoonigan rs200 shines in ranked meta.

Asking for Hoonigan Rs200 nerf just because it does something well in rivals isnt right. Balancing should be done around ranked not rivals.

And btw Hoonigan Rs200 in S1 dirt is just average. Nerfing it will also affect how it performs there too.

Edited by user Monday, May 11, 2020 3:15:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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