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Rank: S-Class Racing License
#26 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 4:04:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: WangKeRui Go to Quoted Post
I really don't know what was going on with my system when testing, for a long time I got no where in finding something to use, no matter the choice/tune/speed/acceleration the lead A.I. would fly off into the distance. When testing once I caught the leads, they would boost off into the distance as if 'fast-forwarded', just like scenes from the "Fast and Furious" films - it really did seem to be some type of boost and not a driving skill issue, as I could catch them, only to have them zoom off Eventually I just decided to enter the trail and see how I would go, only to discover there really was something odd going on with my A.I. (from my POV, could be everyone else too), in the trial this issue never occurred, I even saw the A.I. cars having loss of grip issues.

For some reason, unbeatable in the Trial seems to be much easier than unbeatable in single player. I think it might have been C class Ambleside Scramble that I tried in single player after reading a post about it, and you have to be doing times that would be competitive on the rivals leaderboard to match the AI, whereas in the Trial they're nowhere near that standard.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#27 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 5:21:01 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
For some reason, unbeatable in the Trial seems to be much easier than unbeatable in single player. I think it might have been C class Ambleside Scramble that I tried in single player after reading a post about it, and you have to be doing times that would be competitive on the rivals leaderboard to match the AI, whereas in the Trial they're nowhere near that standard.

Just tried it, they are insanely fast on Ambleside, but was able to came in first with Impreza on stock tires, doing second or so slower laps then being on rally tires where I could only manage 4th.
AI works in mysterious ways and as you already said, trial was totally different. I was almost lapping them there.
Alfa Romeo - made in Italy, perfected in my garage
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#28 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 7:23:06 AM(UTC)
Very fun trial this season.
10 trials done, 30 win with my Audi Quattro
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#29 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 10:42:29 AM(UTC)
Trial result by points

TheGillesMuller - 1950
Team total over the 3 races - 1950

4 other people turned up in stock Delta S4's and 22B Impreza's, 3 quit 1st race and were so far behind I would have lapped them and the other one stayed and thus leeched a 205 FE.

I'm sorry but if someone is as bad as the 4 I just played with they shouldn't be playing the trial, they're either going to endlessly drag teams down and consequently waste several other people's time, never get the car because they quit so why bother? Or leech the car doing absolutely nothing, the guy who stayed could have not moved an inch in all 3 races and still contributed the same amount.

You should be refused the prize if you score 0 in all 3 races and at the opposite end receive it if you score 1950 in a losing team like I thought I was going to end up doing for a few moments just now.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#30 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 2:37:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: El Barto inc Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
For some reason, unbeatable in the Trial seems to be much easier than unbeatable in single player. I think it might have been C class Ambleside Scramble that I tried in single player after reading a post about it, and you have to be doing times that would be competitive on the rivals leaderboard to match the AI, whereas in the Trial they're nowhere near that standard.

Just tried it, they are insanely fast on Ambleside, but was able to came in first with Impreza on stock tires, doing second or so slower laps then being on rally tires where I could only manage 4th.
AI works in mysterious ways and as you already said, trial was totally different. I was almost lapping them there.


Only thing I can say about C-class Ambleside Ascent is that it was one of the few races I couldn't win with stock Mercedes in some playlist champ months ago.

In general, AI in single player is very adaptive beyond player car PI. I just did some tests runs on single player routes for current Trial with different setups.

Unbeateble, Single car: Renault, always the same PI (B 700), different tunes resulting lap time differences sometimes in 3 seconds, that's huge!

Result: AI adapted to every setup and I won every race I entered, good tune, average tune, bad tune, didn't matter.


What comes to Drivatar AI in Trials, some have suggested that it's more like Pro difficulty than Unbeatable but perhaps it's something between. It might be some sort of average of player team car selection weighted by PI and whatever other performance estimation is used in single player.


EDIT: WangKeRui's tune for Renault is very good. Not exactly what drive, but very good for those who look something a bit different that is also safe and competitive.

Edited by user Saturday, April 18, 2020 2:42:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#31 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 2:39:45 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Salfox69 Go to Quoted Post
Very fun trial this season.
10 trials done, 30 win with my Audi Quattro


That's impressive ratio. Made many team mates happy I suppose. :-)

Edited by user Saturday, April 18, 2020 2:42:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#32 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 3:45:41 PM(UTC)
Having said I wouldn’t run the trial any further, I got tempted back by the number of different tunes being mentioned. I’ve now used the following for the trial and would recommend all of them:

Lancia 037 - Breeminator
Subaru 22B - El Barto inc
Renault 5 - WangKeRui
Audi Quattro - RayneSE
Subaru Legacy - TDU1PlatinumMod

The only race I lost with any of them was the first one in the 22B (sorry El B) - as his own review says it has a slightly sluggish start and I couldn’t catch the lead human who had a more powerful car on the long straight. However, the 22B is beautiful to drive on the all dirt tracks in races 2 and 3.

I’d say they all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Bree’s 037 is probably the most balanced. The Quattro and Legacy both need Manual Clutch to work well and are the hardest to drive generally. All definitely worth a go depending on car preference.

For anyone who has Lego, and fancies trying out their favourite Retro Rally car on other courses, have a go at the Oasis Pass and/or Countryside Trail rivals events and post any times in the Rivals Challenge thread. Be interesting to see which Retro Rally car proves best!
Rank: Driver's License
#33 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 8:36:27 PM(UTC)
It's rare for me to have everything ready in one go, but after a few hiccups that prevented me from posting the Trial, PGG and Weekly challenge back on Friday, I'm ready to show you what I've done.

Weekly Challenge:
  • Own and drive any Modern Rally Car
  • Reach a top speed of 185 mph in your Modern Rally Car
  • Earn a total of 15 stars from Danger Signs with your Modern Rally Car

Car used: '04 Subaru Impreza WRX STi
Tune: Imprezzive - 167 832 522
[Bonus!] Paint/Decals: Imprezzive Graph - 116 536 473
An Impreza with a graph paint job.
(I got bored with the paint editor one day)

I was intending to make a build to get the Hilltop Vista Danger Sign weekly goal (not quite there) and The Grange Speed Trap (not enough run-up). Granted, trying to get the speed trap also set me up for the windmill Danger Sign. After trying those two signs, I tried Ambleside Edge Danger Sign (just a bit NE of Hilltop Vista), and was crushing 3 star jumps there.

  • Achieve a podium finish in a Dirt Racing Series event at The Gauntlet in your Modern Rally Car

Sure, you could actually run the Gauntlet (which this car can do quite well, by the way). But what if you want to get this done fast? Try Light House Rush (399 333 705) instead. Simple point-to-point race. You can follow the AI around, or just stick to the main road where most of the checkpoints are. It ends with a leap beside the light house. And there's your weekly challenge sorted.

  • The Trial Co-Op Championship: "Silicon Rally" | Dirt Racing | (B700) Retro Rally

Car Used: Subaru Legacy RS
Tune: Midpack - 113 250 494

This was a kind of fun Trial, but I can barely recommend my own tune here. I almost gave up on it after the first race on Broadway because it didn't have the acceleration for the long straight. I finished 6th, which thankfully was a sweep of the Drivatars. Did much better on the other two tracks with more turns and less straights. Got a 4th on both of them, with the last 4th being the 1st human after the 3 Drivatars who started off by going ham.

  • Seasonal Playground Games | Slate Quarry | (B700) Retro Saloons

Car Used: Rover SD1
Tune: PGG Fun - 164 087 152

Decided to build up a dirt Rover on a lark, and it handled like a dream. One sure-fire sign for me that I've built a good PGG car is if I'm able to grab the flag in the quarry, jump off the cliff, and stick the landing. Thing is nimble and has a bit of nip in its engine.

  • PR Stunt: Hilltop Vista Danger Sign | 623.4 feet

Car Used: Jeep Trailcat
Tune: Flatout - 130 018 811 (an S2 Tune)

Figured I'd start sharing my Stunt tunes, as well. This Trailcat is my go-to for off-road jumps like this. Has enough torque to accelerate uphill on the grass and still lightweight enough to sail less like a brick and more like a foam block.

  • PR Stunt: The Grange Speed Trap | 200.0 mph

  • PR Stunt: The Bridge House Speed Zone | 108.0 mph

Car Used: Koenigsegg CCGT
Tune: Zoner - 160 891 674 (an X Tune)

My CCGT what I use for most of my tarmac Speed Zones and Traps. Fast and nimble, this is the car that holds most of my records. If a dirt Speed Zone or Trap pops up, I'll share my Shelby Monaco KC build...


  • Championship: "German Engineering" | Road Racing | (S1 900) Country: Germany

Car Used: '02 BMW M3-GTR
Tune: Freitag - 114 927 802

After trying a 959 (which is, ironically the car I tend to panic-select if I'm doing ranked FFA and S1 pops up) I went for the M3. It suffered the same issues my Legacy tune did: corners like a dream, but can't get to the top end fast enough. I still won all three races handily, but I had second place nipping at my rear at every finish.


  • Championship: "Overnight Parts" | Street Scene | (A800) Country: Japan

Car Used: '03 Nissan Fairlady Z
Tune: Datsun GT - 273 115 088

This is the point where my tuning luck was turning around. This one has the acceleration, has the top end, and corners insanely. Perfect example, the chicane before going up the slipway on the third race. You can go through the right-hander of the chicane without lifting and slow down for the turn back left. I was able to get first back there after messing my line up elsewhere.


  • Championship: "Priceless Porsches" | Road Racing | (S2 998) High Rollers

Car Used: Bugatti Chiron
Tune: La Rascasse - 696 374 989
[Bonus!] Tongue-in-cheek Color: Tabac (gold on black chrome) - 363 293 508

Unless you're really messing around with the gearbox blindly, it's hard to mess up a Chiron build. This thing was a dream to drive. Accelerates quick, has a high top end, and is planted firm in regards to turning. I need to go back and check, but I bought a second one of these, tuned and painted it, and put it up for auction before I posted this. It just might still be there.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#34 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 8:40:42 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Salfox69 Go to Quoted Post
Very fun trial this season.
10 trials done, 30 win with my Audi Quattro


That's impressive ratio. Made many team mates happy I suppose. :-)


Yes, if someone needs help, let me know, I'm available
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#35 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 9:40:53 PM(UTC)
anyone else have last trail race drop to sub 20fps?? it was tearing so bad
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#36 Posted : Saturday, April 18, 2020 10:16:03 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
For some reason, unbeatable in the Trial seems to be much easier than unbeatable in single player. I think it might have been C class Ambleside Scramble that I tried in single player after reading a post about it, and you have to be doing times that would be competitive on the rivals leaderboard to match the AI, whereas in the Trial they're nowhere near that standard.


It's a short track so not many opportunities to catch up to them.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#37 Posted : Sunday, April 19, 2020 12:17:39 AM(UTC)
So I got more accomplished sooner than I would have thought this week. Firstly, because I did not need to do The Trial 30 times, so that helped. I have everything but the PR Stunt Speed Zone done (just can't get enough grip), so now I have time to go back and play...develop a few tunes, etc.

The Trial - I misread that the Trial was for retro rally...so I had tuned up the wrong car. I ended up running a stock Subaru 22B. I had two competent drivers at the head of the pack while I held fifth solidly until the last or second-to-last turn of two races. I got bulldozed out and passed by three Drivatars each time which of course made the difference. So my apologies to the two drivers who were clearly pulling the team. Popped over to Gables, fiddled an '83 Quattro and went back to the event. Held my own in the first race, took 2nd and 3rd (or 3rd and 2nd) in the next two and there ya go. It was great only having to do the Trial twice...lol. Kinda sluggish, but consistent...will definitely put a little more time in to it to see what I can squeak out of it.

Playground Games - Did this one in an '88 BMW M5. Seemed light, responsive, and even though it did not have a ton of grip, it handled well enough.

German Engineering - Did up a 2015 Porsche Cayman GTS. Great off the line, not fully there at the top end but with tweaking could do it. Was not solid on the back end at all, but with a little anticipation, could handle the corners just fine. Placed 2nd in all three races.

Overnight Parts - Already had set up an A800 GT-R V-Spec. Very smooth and stable. Got off the line well enough and was just nicely responsive. 1st, 1st, 2nd.

Priceless Porsches - This one frightened me. I could not do last week's S2 challenge at all. Had a Koenigsegg and could not get control of it at all. Did this week's in a stock Rimac. Still had massive grip issues, but the acceleration is so incredibly stupid on this, it doesn't even matter. Took all three handily.

Weekly Challenge I just did this with the Impreza you get at the beginning of the game, the intro car. I did have to adjust the final gear ratio to get it up to 185 but that was it. Handled the Gauntlet just fine as well.

PR Stunt Danger Sign - Ah, I love danger signs. Brought out the '73 Gremlin. Nailed it on the first try with an off-route run up. I don't follow the gravel road at all, I just line up straight to the ramp and let the suspension do all the work in keeping it straight. S2 938 AMC Gremlin Tune: 903 936 311 Could use a little more refinement sure, but man, it's just good fun.

PR Stunt Speed Trap - Did this one by accident just running flat out in the Rimac. That thing is stupid quick.

Can't quite get the Speed Zone challenge. I'll play around with a few different cars but right now just having an issue staying stuck to the road. Need 8 more mph yet.

Edited by user Sunday, April 19, 2020 8:54:34 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#38 Posted : Sunday, April 19, 2020 10:48:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IngoingCake8592 Go to Quoted Post


Can't quite get the Speed Zone challenge. I'll play around with a few different cars but right now just having an issue staying stuck to the road. Need 8 more mph yet.


I used a stock CCGT and was able to get it, but it took a few attempts. It was definitely a tough one.

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#39 Posted : Sunday, April 19, 2020 12:20:38 PM(UTC)
As I already said, I used S2 Lego Senna tuned by DJS and it was easy.
There should be more or less the same tune for normal Senna from DJS. Senna is very grippy and fast enough.
Supervan 3 should also do well, maybe some AM Vulcan version, just pick a grippy S2 tune and speed zone should be done in a jiffy. :)
Alfa Romeo - made in Italy, perfected in my garage
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#40 Posted : Sunday, April 19, 2020 4:41:43 PM(UTC)
Hi,

Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
This is important. Could you screencap and post finishing times from races that appear to be glitched? Difficulty doesn't matter.

This has been discussed elsewhere and what I tested, I couldn't replicate it, neither with stock or tuned car but that's just me. If there's an issue, it should be identified and fixed ASAP.


Ran the tracks again yesterday, system is no longer doing the behavior of the other day, at least on that start up of Forza 4. I am sure I am not suddenly just driving much better, so is certainly that the issue has vanished for the moment.

Ran all three tracks, same car, same tune, same game settings. Tracks are tracks I blueprinted with the trail track conditions, so same time of day, same weather, same vehicle choice.
As mention elsewhere by others, my view is also that unbeatable in the trial is different to unbeatable solo (whether playing in Horizon live or Horizon solo).

I actually don't know how to go about doing a screenshot or how I would upload it from Xbox, the only thing I use Xbox for is Forza Horizon - but this is an issue for another day if it happens again.

Did record the A.I. times for the Ambleside Scramble, as this is the track where the A.I. seem to perform the best - I did it on Expert, Pro and Unbeatable, there seems to be quite a jump from the times in Pro vs Unbeatable. I won all races on expert and pro, came in second against unbeatable (that one short uphill sharp corner to the left does me in two times out of three).

N.B. lap times on expert and unbeatable are not those of the actually leading A.I. car.

Expert:
0.48.792 / 2.31.595
Pro:
0.47.157 / 2.27.624
Unbeatable:
0.45.456 / 2.20.843

Some things of note, on both Expert and Pro you can see the A.I. lose traction and slide in corners, on unbeatable this behavior disappears (based on what I saw, it may happen and I missed it), the A.I. is much more aggressive on unbeatable, by this I don't mean they ram you, but they will push into you if you are on their line to the point of pushing you out of the way (may as well push against a brick wall for all it is worth to try to push them back and keep your line) so they can keep on their line.

Helpful? Hopefully.

Edited by user Sunday, April 19, 2020 5:34:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#41 Posted : Sunday, April 19, 2020 5:32:23 PM(UTC)
Hi all,

Cars/tunes/suggestions for this weeks seasonal events plus PR stunts for those that find such useful. All tunes are my own, unless otherwise noted, all shared by myself (or others). ~ tune name / share code. If you use anything offered here, and you like it/it was useful to you, please don't forget to leave a like.

Originally Posted by: WangKeRui Go to Quoted Post
**Trial: "Silicon Rally" | Dirt Racing | (B700) Retro Rally
**Car used: 1980 Renault 5 Turbo (Autoshow 120,000 Cr)
**Tune: B700 Rally Trial / 933 218 659

... my choice for the trial is the Renault 5, which can take both tire upgrades along with power upgrades. ... Tune is AWD, with Forza rear air (some help, plus P.I. cheat), with rally tires.

**Seasonal Playground Games | Slate Quarry | (B700) Retro Saloons
**Car used: 1995 Audi RS 2 Avant (Autoshow 50,000 Cr)
**Tune: B700 Games / 162 583 958

... the tune, very much stock as limited P.I., it has rally tires, and rear Forza air (P.I. cheat), and is AWD as standard. If you want to make the car look like a rear 'grocery getter' try this livery: 'Woody' (100 336 957) by Thee Mad Hatter, it works really well with the rim choice (rims where also about P.I. cheating).

PR Stunts:
-The Bridge House Speed Zone, 2018 McLaren Senna - 'So Much Grip' (921 240 335) by Don Joewon Song,
-The Grange Speed Trap, 2019 Rimac Concept Two, with the tune 'PR Stunt Rally' (120 633 544), but no tune is needed - any car that can meet the speed needed will do it,
-Hilltop Vista Danger Sign, 1993 Toyota #1 T100 Baja Truck - 'Dont Fall Off' (424 583 676) by Don Joewon Song.



Solo championships - Raced against Expert, Steering: Simulation, ABS: on, Traction/Stability; Off, Gearbox: Auto.

**Championship: "German Engineering" | Road Racing | (S1 900) Country: Germany
**Car used: 1967 Mercedes Benz 280 SL (Current Season Forzathon store - 600FP)
**Tune: S900 Road SC / 149 134 017

Lets start with this is not the best choice of car for this championship (if you have just started out playing Forza Horizon you may want to skip this one, I feel it maybe hard to drive beginners.), but i have been wanting to use this car in something ever since I got it (had it since the season whenever it was weekly completion prize). The car/tune is perhaps pushing the limits of the cars frame game physics, however is a fun drive once you know the limits, and it will win these events. Interesting strange game quirk #whoknows -this tune has what should be very good lateral G numbers, yet its performance is that of a car with lower lateral G grip. Yes, I know these numbers are known to be, lets just say less than reliable, yet it is all you have to go by when first upgrading, so it would be very helpful if they did reflect actual performance Forza 5.
Tune is engine swapped for 6.2L V8, supercharged, AWD, with Forza air.

**Championship: "Priceless Porsches" | Road Racing | (S2 998) High Rollers
**Car used: 1964 Ford GT40 Mk 1 (Barnfind)
**Tune: S950 Road / 514 103 777

If you look it up online, you will find 'high rollers' is 1 million credits plus, this is what all the ones I can find say, yet a 1.5 million credit car can not enter this event, the lowest value is 2 million, did it get changed?
I used the barnfind GT40, which should help anyone starting out that does not have 2 million plus cars yet, although you will need to have found the barnfind! Car preforms well, especially in the Horizon Circuit track, which I at first felt would be a problematic, difficult track at lower classes let alone S2. While you can fit this car higher than the P.I. 950 I have done, it does not seem it car reach P.I. 998 with the engine I used (wanted to stay as a V8 to remain little true to form for the car), I made it 950 just to not have a random number. This car tune will/can win this championship with the following things to note ~ As far as A.I. choices go, the system will match to the P.I., unless it chooses the Rimac.. the Rimac starting untuned P.I. is 998 - in this case you will get a field of P.I. 940~950 and one (I only ever got one) 998! Rimac is only a problem on the "Elmsdon on sea sprint", if it gets in the lead you will not easily, if at all, catch it - either go with placing second (hopefully!) in this event, or try quitting out till it is in a lower grid starting position - note if you ran the other races in the championship the line up of cars will not change, only grid position can change. Tune is engine swapped for 5.2L V8, supercharged, AWD with Forza air.

**Championship: "Overnight Parts" | Street Scene | (A800) Country: Japan
**Car used: 2013 Subaru BRZ (Autoshow 32,000 Cr)
**Tune: A800 Road / 146 727 678

Not a fan of street scene, the traffic cars always appear right in the place I want to be, while the A.I. preempt where they will be and moved to avoid them before they can even see them (you can use this to help yourself too, just depends if you can make the move quickly enough)! Using a previous championship tune here, good choice if you want something competitive and challenging - top end is on the low end. Tune is RWD, has the Rocket Bunny wide-body kit.

Cheers.

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#42 Posted : Sunday, April 19, 2020 9:58:14 PM(UTC)
Thank you, El Barto.

You had mentioned the Vulcan and I remember actually winning one in a spin ...as opposed to emotes, hats, and other assorted apparel. I was running a few other circuits and taking care of some open races before I got back to that side of the map. Clicked open my car selection, forgot who made it but knew it was green, found it and selected it. Ran it a few times and could get so close...at one point only 1 mph off. So frustrating. So I thought I'd upgrade the tires for a little extra traction. No good, they are already race tires...wait, these are not the specs I was.., I'm running the wrong car!! I had a Mercedes-AMG GT-R. Switched over to the Vulcan, ran it twice...first time hit the wall and still almost made speed. Second time beat it by 15 mph. So now I am using it to sneak out those pesky third stars on speed zones I haven't aced yet.

Edited by user Monday, April 20, 2020 1:38:00 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#43 Posted : Sunday, April 19, 2020 9:59:55 PM(UTC)
Guys, a little side note.

Some youtuber mentioned that all cars released so far in the playlists have been mentioned in the leaked list for upcoming cars from last November.

So that means, the 6x6 Hennessey/Ford Velociraptor is probably coming and I can't wait for it.

Hope it's true though...

Edited by user Sunday, April 19, 2020 10:02:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#44 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2020 9:54:01 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: The Last Flight Go to Quoted Post
Much easier week this time.

For Playground Games, the 1991 BMW M3 worked for me. Small size and turns on a dime. Was able to utilize its nimble handling to intercept flag carriers on defense and evade zone guarders on offense. Other team quit after the first round. Initially went with the Audi RS2 but found it had too much acceleration and not enough handling. It felt like a hard-to-turn straight line missile whose movements could be read like a book.


Blame the quarry's surface changes and the fact that none of the eligible cars comes with a stock tire that is able to cope. Thus, every car handles like a school bus at high speed out there. However, the RS2 is one of the few that has enough PI margin to address that with rally tires. You'll need the rear race wing or the full roll cage for PI ballast as the they put the car a couple of points over eligibility, but either choice only further enhances a car that is already a quick, stable PG platform right out of the box. In tandem with acclimation, to the stage, I've been key to holding opposing teams to 4 or less points while scoring 2 or more when mine goes on offense in Flag Rush. What's more, I generally have my way against opponents in Survival and King because I actually have grip to turn and/or stop.

Edited by user Monday, April 20, 2020 9:54:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#45 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2020 10:07:49 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: mhp86 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: The Last Flight Go to Quoted Post
Much easier week this time.

For Playground Games, the 1991 BMW M3 worked for me. Small size and turns on a dime. Was able to utilize its nimble handling to intercept flag carriers on defense and evade zone guarders on offense. Other team quit after the first round. Initially went with the Audi RS2 but found it had too much acceleration and not enough handling. It felt like a hard-to-turn straight line missile whose movements could be read like a book.


Blame the quarry's surface changes and the fact that none of the eligible cars comes with a stock tire that is able to cope. Thus, every car handles like a school bus at high speed out there. However, the RS2 is one of the few that has enough PI margin to address that with rally tires. You'll need the rear race wing or the full roll cage for PI ballast as the they put the car a couple of points over eligibility, but either choice only further enhances a car that is already a quick, stable PG platform right out of the box. In tandem with acclimation, to the stage, I've been key to holding opposing teams to 4 or less points while scoring 2 or more when mine goes on offense in Flag Rush. What's more, I generally have my way against opponents in Survival and King because I actually have grip to turn and/or stop.


They've changed the quarry surface?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#46 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2020 5:29:45 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mhp86 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: The Last Flight Go to Quoted Post
Much easier week this time.

For Playground Games, the 1991 BMW M3 worked for me. Small size and turns on a dime. Was able to utilize its nimble handling to intercept flag carriers on defense and evade zone guarders on offense. Other team quit after the first round. Initially went with the Audi RS2 but found it had too much acceleration and not enough handling. It felt like a hard-to-turn straight line missile whose movements could be read like a book.


Blame the quarry's surface changes and the fact that none of the eligible cars comes with a stock tire that is able to cope. Thus, every car handles like a school bus at high speed out there. However, the RS2 is one of the few that has enough PI margin to address that with rally tires. You'll need the rear race wing or the full roll cage for PI ballast as the they put the car a couple of points over eligibility, but either choice only further enhances a car that is already a quick, stable PG platform right out of the box. In tandem with acclimation, to the stage, I've been key to holding opposing teams to 4 or less points while scoring 2 or more when mine goes on offense in Flag Rush. What's more, I generally have my way against opponents in Survival and King because I actually have grip to turn and/or stop.


They've changed the quarry surface?


Laughing Emoji
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#47 Posted : Monday, April 20, 2020 10:57:16 PM(UTC)
idk they want almost ever weekly to be that map with awful cars.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#48 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2020 12:15:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: WangKeRui Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
This is important. Could you screencap and post finishing times from races that appear to be glitched? Difficulty doesn't matter.

This has been discussed elsewhere and what I tested, I couldn't replicate it, neither with stock or tuned car but that's just me. If there's an issue, it should be identified and fixed ASAP.


Ran the tracks again yesterday, system is no longer doing the behavior of the other day, at least on that start up of Forza 4. I am sure I am not suddenly just driving much better, so is certainly that the issue has vanished for the moment.

Ran all three tracks, same car, same tune, same game settings. Tracks are tracks I blueprinted with the trail track conditions, so same time of day, same weather, same vehicle choice.
As mention elsewhere by others, my view is also that unbeatable in the trial is different to unbeatable solo (whether playing in Horizon live or Horizon solo).

I actually don't know how to go about doing a screenshot or how I would upload it from Xbox, the only thing I use Xbox for is Forza Horizon - but this is an issue for another day if it happens again.


Get TrueAchievements account. I didn't even know that there's gallery feature there, but screencaps from my Xbox are automatically uploaded there, or were as it looks like I don't have anymore storage page left there. Gallery looks like this: https://www.trueachievem...ClawedScroll554/captures


Originally Posted by: WangKeRui Go to Quoted Post

Did record the A.I. times for the Ambleside Scramble, as this is the track where the A.I. seem to perform the best - I did it on Expert, Pro and Unbeatable, there seems to be quite a jump from the times in Pro vs Unbeatable. I won all races on expert and pro, came in second against unbeatable (that one short uphill sharp corner to the left does me in two times out of three).

N.B. lap times on expert and unbeatable are not those of the actually leading A.I. car.

Expert:
0.48.792 / 2.31.595
Pro:
0.47.157 / 2.27.624
Unbeatable:
0.45.456 / 2.20.843

Some things of note, on both Expert and Pro you can see the A.I. lose traction and slide in corners, on unbeatable this behavior disappears (based on what I saw, it may happen and I missed it), the A.I. is much more aggressive on unbeatable, by this I don't mean they ram you, but they will push into you if you are on their line to the point of pushing you out of the way (may as well push against a brick wall for all it is worth to try to push them back and keep your line) so they can keep on their line.

Helpful? Hopefully.


Did some tests myself yesterday and will post notes for comparison later so stay tuned. But I'm inclined to consider that Trial Unbeatable, for this event at least is about Pro level compared to single player.

And check Ambleside Scramble B-class leaderboards top 100. That's your tune and I think it can do even a bit better ;-)
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#49 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2020 9:25:58 AM(UTC)
Again, the Toyota's engine is too low-pitched (Supra 2.0 GT). Pretty disappointing. :(

To Playground's credit, the car looks great. I'm not sure if it even had all these kits in FH3 either. But the sound... Just no.

(I know most kids will just swap in the 2JZ-GTE but I'd like to run the stock engine...)
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#50 Posted : Tuesday, April 21, 2020 2:42:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: WangKeRui Go to Quoted Post

Ran all three tracks, same car, same tune, same game settings. Tracks are tracks I blueprinted with the trail track conditions, so same time of day, same weather, same vehicle choice.
As mention elsewhere by others, my view is also that unbeatable in the trial is different to unbeatable solo (whether playing in Horizon live or Horizon solo).

Did record the A.I. times for the Ambleside Scramble, as this is the track where the A.I. seem to perform the best - I did it on Expert, Pro and Unbeatable, there seems to be quite a jump from the times in Pro vs Unbeatable. I won all races on expert and pro, came in second against unbeatable (that one short uphill sharp corner to the left does me in two times out of three).

N.B. lap times on expert and unbeatable are not those of the actually leading A.I. car.

Expert:
0.48.792 / 2.31.595
Pro:
0.47.157 / 2.27.624
Unbeatable:
0.45.456 / 2.20.843

Some things of note, on both Expert and Pro you can see the A.I. lose traction and slide in corners, on unbeatable this behavior disappears (based on what I saw, it may happen and I missed it), the A.I. is much more aggressive on unbeatable, by this I don't mean they ram you, but they will push into you if you are on their line to the point of pushing you out of the way (may as well push against a brick wall for all it is worth to try to push them back and keep your line) so they can keep on their line.

Helpful? Hopefully.


Drivatars fishtailing and losing grip used to happen a lot in Street Scene/Unbeatable still during October if my memory serves, but I don't think I have seen that kind of behaviour for months now.


About Drivatar times.

In single player there's possible issue with using other than time from Drivatar finishing second (assumedly behind player) or Drivatars finishing ahead of player. It can also happen at least on circuit type races with Drivatar finishing 2nd behind player, that final lap time and overall finish time doesn't match actual Drivatar performance.

For example, I was running some single player tests (default blueprints for a season btw) with stock Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI GSR and at Broadway Village circuit I finished first with time 3:27.484 best lap being 1:07.317. I finished way before Drivatars and saw previous lap from fastest Drivatar being 1:14.??? but that changed to 1:10.905 when it finished, total time being 3:43.441. Boost like that on results screen doesn't reflect Drivatar actual in game performance, but is probably done to cut waiting time for players at the end of race. I don't think it occurs if Drivatars are still within visual range of player. For Drivatars finishing further behind, it can be even more ridiculous. On tad longer circuit like Holyrood Park, you can sometimes seeing bottom of the pack having ~15 seconds faster lap times or something stupid, than top 3 on race result screen.

That's why top position Drivatar times are important, because those are from Drivatars most likely to remain within player visual range or "Drawing distance".

Other condition, even that is only reliable on default blueprints. If races are blueprinted to more laps, Drivatars actually mirror players best lap after falling behind from player visual range. Rayne SE has a very good post about it here.

I noticed Drivatar "time compression" happen few times when I was testing your tune. With your tune Renault could do lap in race at Broadway Village Circuit in 1:05.938 with little effort (note, default blueprint for season is wet) and Drivatar finishing second had best lap 1:08.938 in results screen when it actually wasn't even in the race after first lap.



Some food for though:

Unbeatable Stock: Ambleside Scramble default blueprint for Autumn

Audi Sport Quatro (B 620) 0:46:163 / 2:29.024 vs Drivatar 0:48.415 / 2:30.844
Mitsubishi Lancer- (B675) 0:46.113 / 2:28.265 vs. Drivatar 0:48.416 / 2:31.152

Drivatar performance didn't scale with player car PI


'14 Ford Fiesta (B 621) [FWD] 0:48.081 / 2:33.704 vs Drivatar 0:50.150 / 2:35.790

Drivatar performance scaled based on player car. FWD? Type (Hot Hatch)?


Renault 5 Turbo (B 700) [RWD] 0:46.977 / 2:30.817 vs Drivatar 0:47.064 / 2:25.863

Renault 5 Turbo (B 700) [AWD] 0:45.462 / 2:24.570 vs Drivatar 0:46.980 / 2:26.570
Renault 5 Turbo* (B 700) [AWD] 0:44.194 / 2:21.050 vs Drivatar 0:45.754 / 2:22.669

Drivatar performance scaled between different builds RWD/AWD at same PI.
Drivatar performance scaled between different AWD builds at same PI. My built used in comparison used stock tyres, could that be it?


*WangKeRui tune


AWD Comparison used for WangKeRui tune is shared in my creative hub. I built it for power gliding and for fun, it competitive in Trials but not nearly as fast and beginner friendly as WangKeRui tune.

In general, I don't recommend RWD tunes for Trials with such technical routes as Ambleside Scramble. While numbers look fine, it required quite a few retries to get theoretical performance of B 700 RWD to be any practical use. On other two routes, Broadway Village and Tarn Hows it worked but Ambleside Scramble was a nightmare to get right with it. I might have actually deleted that RWD built in my frustration after test runs in Ambleside Ascent. If it's still shared description reads "Use for your own peril".
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