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Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#76 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 12:57:32 PM(UTC)
I'm not expecting them to provide a perfect solution, but a good one would be a start. It would be good to see them do something. And to say something.

But this is a company which has such little respect for its players it doesn't even let you do things like turn the music off, or the music volume down. (Only the radio volume, and only to 1, not to zero. But it doesn't affect the other music throughout the game, even with streamer 'on'.)

It's a shame there is no real competition for this game because I think it would help wake them up.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#77 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 4:34:45 PM(UTC)
Well, they will do nothing. Or just give them a one-week ban.
I am a painter. We have always been plagued by data tampering and glitch-abusing players.
I say based on that experience. They do not intend to punish the wrongdoers.

Report unlock. One week ban.
The same man soon did the same. Ban which is slightly longer than the first time.
The same man did the same thing again. Finally this is a permanent ban.
A new Forza has been released. They acquit this man. And the three strikes count also returns to zero.

Unlocking a livery or vinyl group is impossible unless intentional. Even then, they give little punishment.

Also, recently they don't seem to be browsing the forums.
It would be better to appeal to them on discord. But, I don't know if they will take action.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#78 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 8:36:21 PM(UTC)
I guess what is happening for Sony's forums is representative of the evolution of "communication". It's rather the direction that was taken by RK at the time, go to IRC , mean discord, place with no trace of issues so that the information is kept buried.

Yeah, the more I read you guys, the more I am convinced no fix will happen on this hack. Even with the consequences of promoting PCs over the xbox, possibly that is seen by them as a positive thing / easily increase the number of players since no need to buy any device.

Let's say that it is the consequence of so few competitors here.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#79 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2020 3:04:02 AM(UTC)
As I mentioned, this really needs a hardware and OS level solution, so I did a bit of searching, and found this:

https://forums.battlefie...c-game-cheating-epidemic

"Microsoft did mention last year that there will be implementing a fool-proof anti-cheat rooted in Windows for Windows based games"

I can't actually see how MS can address it alone, as there is nothing to stop someone tampering with the OS unless there is hardware support to prevent it. Even then, people could tamper with the hardware, but that is another level of difficulty.

I also found this earlier article that suggests some sort of anti-cheat tech has been added to Windows, maybe Forza isn't using it?

https://www.theverge.com...ueplay-anti-cheat-gaming
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#80 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2020 9:07:40 PM(UTC)
Did you see that Sony closed their forums, I tend to think Microsoft is following the line. Even if the few people coming on forum are very active in the game and feeding back lot of elaborated feedback ( among lot of anger/shouting I admit but one always raise voice in a conflict to get the other reacting to it ) , there is little doubt they disregard anything from the forum and are not aware of any feedback we shared on the hack here.

I really wonder how this issue about the hub got solved so quickly being a very secondary feature ...

Edited by user Wednesday, February 19, 2020 9:08:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#81 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2020 9:53:26 PM(UTC)
I've never understood how it's possible to hack or cheat a Microsoft game. The files are basically tamper proof. Touch them and your Xbox account will be destroyed. Not worth being banned from Xbox live for eternity just to cheat at a racing game. Makes no sense.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#82 Posted : Wednesday, February 19, 2020 10:38:37 PM(UTC)
Horizon has a **** meta and now this. But at least it's not intended as a fully competitive game.

What I'm fearing is for FM8 to be released without Microsoft addressing this issue. Because, ultimately, it's on them. And Forza Motorsport is an actual competitive game. They can't risk it being flooded with this stuff on day one, it would be a PR disaster.

They opened the gates to the PC without letting us close them. FH3 used to let people block crossplay, but not FH4, and I don't understand why. I don't play Sea of Thieves but I know that game was also ruined by hacking and Rare was slow to react to demands for disabling crossplay.

Almost not worth paying Xbox Live Gold anymore if the game is in this state.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#83 Posted : Thursday, February 20, 2020 1:00:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
I've never understood how it's possible to hack or cheat a Microsoft game. The files are basically tamper proof. Touch them and your Xbox account will be destroyed. Not worth being banned from Xbox live for eternity just to cheat at a racing game. Makes no sense.

They aren't touching the files, or the code in RAM, they're altering the values of the 4 variables for the speed of each wheel.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#84 Posted : Thursday, February 20, 2020 7:58:02 AM(UTC)
https://support.forzamot...a-Enforcement-Guidelines
FORZA TIER 8 10530 Driving since August 2017
looking for mature ongoing players with mic to join team #AOS
facebook.com/vanninman twitter.com/vanninman1 twitch.tv/vanninman

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#85 Posted : Thursday, February 20, 2020 12:46:05 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
I've never understood how it's possible to hack or cheat a Microsoft game. The files are basically tamper proof. Touch them and your Xbox account will be destroyed. Not worth being banned from Xbox live for eternity just to cheat at a racing game. Makes no sense.

They aren't touching the files, or the code in RAM, they're altering the values of the 4 variables for the speed of each wheel.


Yeah it's alteration of live speed, also stored in the RAM, but unrelated to the code. It's data that the code outputs, not the code itself.

Very difficult to ban, because it doesn't "change" the game in any way. Only if you're caught. Almost like fitting your car with a piggyback, then you go to BMW or something and they scratch their heads over a car with clocked 20,000 miles having an engine worn down as if it had 50,000.

And AFAIK Xbox Live doesn't have anything like Steam which could detect if you're running unauthorized apps. Xbox Live's system is, ultimately, Windows, so it's very difficult to ban specific files. Windows Defender might be able to categorize them as viruses but the cheaters will use the tools regardless of warning.

I'm thinking that the Data Out feature could have made it even easier for them to do it but I'm just speculating here.

Edited by user Thursday, February 20, 2020 12:52:41 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 4 users liked this post.
#86 Posted : Friday, February 21, 2020 3:18:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Very difficult to ban, because it doesn't "change" the game in any way.

In terms of making it clear it's not permitted, they just need to change this:

"Using any outside program in order to alter the game or your account will result in an immediate permanent suspension of both your account and device"

to

"Using any outside program in order to alter the game or its data, or your account, will result in an immediate permanent suspension of both your account and device"

It's not that hard to detect. Windows knows that the normal rules of memory access are being violated and could provide support for apps where this isn't permitted. The game could do its own checking, for example a very simple scheme would be to add together the 4 wheel speed values every time any one of them is changed, and store the sum somewhere else. Each time any of the 4 values is accessed, add them all up and compare to the stored sum. If it doesn't match, the game's data has been tampered with. This can, of course, be worked around by the cheaters working out where the sum is stored, and altering that as well, but it adds some more work, and they'd be at risk of the game performing a check in between them changing a value and changing the sum.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 8 users liked this post.
#87 Posted : Friday, February 21, 2020 9:14:05 AM(UTC)
The ideal fix would be a secure load environment.

Within Windows when a game designed for both PC and Xbox loads, Windows opens a secure layer in which the game loads, this layer is non-accessable to any 3rd party software running on the machine, and any attempt to intercept the code being ran will result in it being locked out.

Think in the sense of Android and Samsung Knox, if someone tries rooting or gaining access to the secure environment the system is tripped and access is removed forever on said device.

Legit player would never trip the system, so wouldn't noticed this secure layer, but those out to 'hack or modify code being ran in the environment' would basically make the play environment crash and lock themselves out automatically.

This way no one need to report the hack, no one needs to manually ban them, the system locking would take care of it.

1. It prevents the basic hacker trying.
2. It puts a clear warning out, mess with this and NONE of your cross platform games will run again.

Hardware and software fuses have been around for years, I can't see how implementation would be difficult?

The sad thing with today's society, one man builds it and another is out to destroy it.

Edited by user Friday, February 21, 2020 9:14:50 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#88 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2020 2:40:07 AM(UTC)
Seems simple enough to me. As devs, they should be aware of exactly what top speed/acceleration each and every car is capable of either standard or fully upgraded. Just put a flag into each race to check if those parameters are being exceeded by 'x' amount. If they are, then there be cheating going on. Insta-ban!
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#89 Posted : Saturday, February 22, 2020 11:03:48 PM(UTC)
There is glitch going out of map resulting in stupid scores easy to wipe even if they don't.
There is sync issue that is possibly killing a tight race at beginning or end.
There is ? stupid hack allowing to boost cars.

I can cope with the 2 first, the speed hack I just would like some comm from FH to say either it is hoax and records have witnessed legit cars or there is an investigation on going.

Played 6 hours yesterday on FFA, met only 1 that I could suspect from hack using a beettle, class A under rain joined 1 race and left before the board with some secondary account since following my gtr'02 on rain street race in mountain with a beettle is no beginner job. This to say that if hack was spreading like corona does, he wouldn't have been the only one I met.

Found out lately some players suspected myself to be hacking while I am an humble xbox player with no outstanding records even on rivals and minor usage of OP cars ( nova, gtr'05 etc ) that I tune myself by the way which, no doubt, makes those less effective. For sure, any MC players on A or B class looks hacked to player using automatic.

Edited by user Saturday, February 22, 2020 11:30:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#90 Posted : Sunday, February 23, 2020 3:09:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post

... met only 1 that I could suspect from hack using a beettle, class A under rain joined 1 race and left before the board with some secondary account since following my gtr'02 on rain street race in mountain with a beettle is no beginner job. This to say that if hack was spreading like corona does, he wouldn't have been the only one I met. ...


Done a tune of beetle myself, no hack there ...
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#91 Posted : Sunday, February 23, 2020 10:33:16 PM(UTC)
I saw one in an online race once. He instantaneously finished the race as soon as it started and everybody else got hit by the DNF. His car was in front of me in the line up and just vanished to the finish line.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#92 Posted : Monday, February 24, 2020 2:36:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TotalDazaster Go to Quoted Post
Seems simple enough to me. As devs, they should be aware of exactly what top speed/acceleration each and every car is capable of either standard or fully upgraded. Just put a flag into each race to check if those parameters are being exceeded by 'x' amount. If they are, then there be cheating going on. Insta-ban!

This is actually massively harder and more error prone than just checking the variables haven't been tampered with. For example, the acceleration that can be achieved varies with gradient, tyres, surface, as well as speed and rpm. A valid acceleration at 10mph would be a hacked race-changing acceleration if the same acceleration occurred at 100mph. You can account for all those variables, but there's ultimately no point, it's easier to just check for tampering.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#93 Posted : Monday, March 2, 2020 10:20:07 AM(UTC)
Just met one in ranked FFA.
Hoonigan Focus A class. He just shot from the start line and was out of my sight before I got to 3rd gear. Finished every race with 20+ sec lead.
Fortunately I finished second, so got +0 points :) (I am actually happy, because sometimes I get negative points for finishing 1st,, so 0 points for being second is FINE #everythingisfinememe)
Rank: Racing Permit
#94 Posted : Tuesday, March 3, 2020 12:33:40 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TotalDazaster Go to Quoted Post
Seems simple enough to me. As devs, they should be aware of exactly what top speed/acceleration each and every car is capable of either standard or fully upgraded. Just put a flag into each race to check if those parameters are being exceeded by 'x' amount. If they are, then there be cheating going on. Insta-ban!

This is actually massively harder and more error prone than just checking the variables haven't been tampered with. For example, the acceleration that can be achieved varies with gradient, tyres, surface, as well as speed and rpm. A valid acceleration at 10mph would be a hacked race-changing acceleration if the same acceleration occurred at 100mph. You can account for all those variables, but there's ultimately no point, it's easier to just check for tampering.


Yeah, it's not that simple. What about
- Falling off cliffs in offroad races
- Folks who (mis)use the steam train to get a massive acceleration boost before a PR stunt / speedtrap etc.
- See above but with any other quick and heavy car smashing into something like a Mini or a Peel.

Edited by user Tuesday, March 3, 2020 12:34:49 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#95 Posted : Monday, April 6, 2020 5:36:10 AM(UTC)
I would like to know how they cheat, what are the codes or special numbers to put in on the car tuning pages?
If you can't beat them, join them - specially since the game's programmers and organizers are not interested in doing anything about it.
It's a virus that has spread through the game.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#96 Posted : Monday, April 6, 2020 5:46:55 AM(UTC)
Ive done about 60 team adventures this month and saw only one car which I thought was suspicious (which rocketed straight into a wall near the start and then quit). I’m therefore struggling to see it as a “virus that has spread through the game”. I suspect the usage is pretty limited and it’s notable this thread hasn’t been bumped for some time, suggesting others aren’t encountering issues either.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 4 users liked this post.
#97 Posted : Monday, April 6, 2020 5:48:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GMacaG Go to Quoted Post
I would like to know how they cheat, what are the codes or special numbers to put in on the car tuning pages?
If you can't beat them, join them - specially since the game's programmers and organizers are not interested in doing anything about it.
It's a virus that has spread through the game.

It's done by running a program that modifies the game's data in RAM. If you are caught, your hardware will be banned, and all accounts that use the same hardware. If those accounts are used on any other hardware, that hardware will also be banned. Better to play honestly and have the satisfaction of knowing your performances are legitimate.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#98 Posted : Monday, April 6, 2020 12:54:41 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Better to play honestly and have the satisfaction of knowing your performances are legitimate.


Here, here..

I've started to accept being in the 1% category on Leaderboards is the real goal of achievement.

In the fast majority of leaderboards I don't even hesitate to look at the first few pages, as 9 out of 10 are based on cheaters.

Sad is the time where scoring 200 on a leaderboard is the new number 1.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#99 Posted : Saturday, April 11, 2020 6:19:37 AM(UTC)
Just had two in the same session, one in a merc and one in a Porsche 911 gt3 rs 16. Both would hang back mid-pack, then accelerate passed everyone and disappear in the distance. Then the one in the Porsche noticed me, in a Porsche 911 gt3 rs 19. He(?) started driving next to me for part of the next few races, then racing away when I was flat out. I quit the session because what's the point?
Rank: Driver's Permit
#100 Posted : Sunday, November 22, 2020 2:21:16 AM(UTC)
Just run into one during a online adventure a few hours ago, in A class dirt races. He would warp past us crash lose his first place then warp past again at what seemed to be about 600mph.
I do not understand the mindset that these people have, where is the fun in cheating in a multiplayer game?
Online is a unbalanced mess anyway Jeez it annoys enough that some people only use OP cars like the Boneshaker I would always prefer to win as a underdog. But at least that is not actually cheating maybe a bit cheap but not as bad as actualy using hacks or glitches to win.
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