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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#51 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 6:58:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Why close rivals? Any dodgy times should just be capable of being deleted and there’s no detriment to those of us playing Rivals clean. Arguably, they should close Team Adventure and FFA if this a prevalent issue currently as people will otherwise be losing ranking points against these cheats (well, or would be if the ranking points weren’t also stuck).


1/ because they don't do cleaning
2/ because of impossibility to differentiate a cheated score from a normal one for anyone that is smart enough to make it within acceptable range times.


Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#52 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 7:26:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Why close rivals? Any dodgy times should just be capable of being deleted and there’s no detriment to those of us playing Rivals clean. Arguably, they should close Team Adventure and FFA if this a prevalent issue currently as people will otherwise be losing ranking points against these cheats (well, or would be if the ranking points weren’t also stuck).


1/ because they don't do cleaning
2/ because of impossibility to differentiate a cheated score from a normal one for anyone that is smart enough to make it within acceptable range times.




You would most likely be able to tell from the cheater's ghost, if they raced to the finish and then slowed right down or stopped for a while to make the time seem legit.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#53 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 7:55:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Why close rivals? Any dodgy times should just be capable of being deleted and there’s no detriment to those of us playing Rivals clean. Arguably, they should close Team Adventure and FFA if this a prevalent issue currently as people will otherwise be losing ranking points against these cheats (well, or would be if the ranking points weren’t also stuck).

1/ because they don't do cleaning
2/ because of impossibility to differentiate a cheated score from a normal one for anyone that is smart enough to make it within acceptable range times.

I see your point - any times set now using cheats will not be possible to remove in the future, because they won't easily be able to tell which times are cheats. So you're arguing they should disable the features while they fix it, then re-open them. But the problem is they aren't going to fix it. These cheats have been around since a few days after the game's release.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#54 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 8:50:35 AM(UTC)
I have a problem with B class cars with 600 km/h :D They are still there and it's easily detectable.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#55 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 9:48:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Why close rivals? Any dodgy times should just be capable of being deleted and there’s no detriment to those of us playing Rivals clean. Arguably, they should close Team Adventure and FFA if this a prevalent issue currently as people will otherwise be losing ranking points against these cheats (well, or would be if the ranking points weren’t also stuck).

1/ because they don't do cleaning
2/ because of impossibility to differentiate a cheated score from a normal one for anyone that is smart enough to make it within acceptable range times.

I see your point - any times set now using cheats will not be possible to remove in the future, because they won't easily be able to tell which times are cheats. So you're arguing they should disable the features while they fix it, then re-open them. But the problem is they aren't going to fix it. These cheats have been around since a few days after the game's release.


You've got a point, they will probably fix the issue because of Eliminator but won't do anything for Rivals.

Concerning the issue existing since game release, imho, it is applicable to going under map issue, gaining so few ms using PC because of some sync issues but here, this hack is a total different scale. :(





Rank: A-Class Racing License
#56 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 10:28:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Concerning the issue existing since game release, imho, it is applicable to going under map issue, gaining so few ms using PC because of some sync issues but here, this hack is a total different scale. :(

I think there might be a fairly recent app someone has released that has made more people aware of it, but the speed boost cheat has been around from the start, and was around before FH4 was even released, people were using it in FM7 rivals too.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#57 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 11:35:16 AM(UTC)
I just hope it will soon hit Eliminator the hardest way possible as it is certainly the only thing that could have them react.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#58 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 11:53:13 AM(UTC)
It might not be easy for them to fix. The exploit relies on finding the memory addresses for the 4 variables for the speed of each wheel, then using admin privileges to overwrite them without causing a general protection fault. Possible fixes would be to make this much harder by making the values move around in memory, or to guard by creating a checksum that is stored and checking that it's valid each time the variables are accessed. But the variables might be owned by a game engine that their code uses, and it might not be possible for them to do either of those things.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#59 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 12:17:54 PM(UTC)
for sure, a bit more complex than adding a duplicate filter
Rank: Driver's License
#60 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 4:36:06 PM(UTC)
Had this problem with a player in an A class CC individual adventure a couple of days ago. I’m a level 12 and somehow this player - with a Grandmaster tank tag - destroyed all of us 12 and 13s by over 30-45 seconds in every race in a Warthog that was pulling away early and had top speeds well beyond any a normal warthog can make. (I tried multiple tunes and ran the same area of the map and never got within 20 mph of what they had to be doing.) Ranked adventure is not worth playing right now. Glad I enjoy Eliminator.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#61 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 5:07:59 PM(UTC)
i notice a hack. where they wher driving a farm tractor
Rank: Racing Permit
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#62 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 8:14:44 PM(UTC)
I think, sadly, the only way to get things fixed is to
- make a big issue of it on social media, especially to compare Forza negatively to some other more pro active Racing sim.
- Everyone make alt accounts (who wants their primaries banned) and just wreak the leaderboards totally.

At the moment there is a spotty ban process that seems to target people who hack themselves free credits or something inconsequential.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#63 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 12:36:11 AM(UTC)
Wow It's been getting full on with the cheating these few days, eliminator or online adventure.
Had a group in online adventure cheat to win.

Then came across one player in eliminator who was glitching through trees to get to the finish point to win.

The mentality is one I can't comprehend.

Win to just win doesn't matter if it is done legitimately or not.

Either way gives me incentive to play other games.

Edited by user Tuesday, February 18, 2020 8:24:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#64 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 1:26:49 AM(UTC)
Unfortunately, this always happens if a game has online multiplayer on PC. Through "PC Magic" it's a lot easier to do and in a more excessive way.
One of the drawbacks of cross-play for console users.
In a game like this it should be fixable though. It's not GTA Online where the glitching/exploiting/modding on PC is completely out of control.
Only question remains if PG does care enough.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#65 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 5:22:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Applique D2 Go to Quoted Post
Win to just win doesn't matter if it is done illegitimately.

From what I've seen in other sports, people come up with all sorts of ways to justify it. Some people think that everyone who is beating them must be cheating, so they're only levelling the playing field by cheating themselves. Some people think it's not fair that others have more talent than them, so again, they see it as just correcting that unfairness. I've even seen people say that it's justified to dope in sports because drugs are cheap, and they'd otherwise be beaten by richer people who can afford things that give a legal advantage. I mentioned the cheating to a friend who doesn't play the game, because he's rubbish at driving games, and his reaction was "wow, that sounds fun, I might give the game a try".
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#66 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 5:30:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Applique D2 Go to Quoted Post
Win to just win doesn't matter if it is done illegitimately.

From what I've seen in other sports, people come up with all sorts of ways to justify it. Some people think that everyone who is beating them must be cheating, so they're only levelling the playing field by cheating themselves. Some people think it's not fair that others have more talent than them, so again, they see it as just correcting that unfairness. I've even seen people say that it's justified to dope in sports because drugs are cheap, and they'd otherwise be beaten by richer people who can afford things that give a legal advantage. I mentioned the cheating to a friend who doesn't play the game, because he's rubbish at driving games, and his reaction was "wow, that sounds fun, I might give the game a try".


Sounds like time to get a new friend. (j/k)

I hope you were able to persuade him that cheating in online games is not cool or clever, it's scummy.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#67 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 5:41:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Sounds like time to get a new friend. (j/k)

I hope you were able to persuade him that cheating in online games is not cool or clever, it's scummy.

You have to understand that it's just how some people are. They can't understand our mindset any more than we can understand theirs. This person has been extremely successful in life due to his "do whatever it takes to get results" attitude.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#68 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 8:53:06 AM(UTC)
Yes, cheating the rules seems like the very ultimate rule of our world. When will we come to real kill just to win, what is the limit ?

Back to FH, I just expect those guys are going to be numerous in Eliminator because that is the only way to get reaction.

Hack being on PC players plus closing the release of a new generation of xbox, only idiots will buy a xbox to have boundaries not be applied to PC players ...

Looks to me that inaction is a very dangerous move here but so many non sense choices are made by people lately all over the planet ...
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#69 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 9:43:51 AM(UTC)
This is so sad on many levels.

I was never good enough until recently that the leader boards would affect me at all. Now that I have been working on setting top scores on Danger Zones (and indeed am in the top 1% on a good number of them), I now see the unbelievable scores of the top places. And yes, I am capable of differentiating between scores that are better than mine, but are obtainable if I work a bit harder at it, and scores that are not even in the realm of possibility without resulting to cheating.

Now, cheating in online events is another thing all together. I the case of the stunts, once you have achieved 3 stars (or in the case of the weekly events, once you have hit the weekly target) you win so those getting the absurd scored don't really affect anything except the place on the leaderboards. In online events, the cheating affects the final positions in the race, so to me, that is a bigger deal.

Anyway, glad to see that there are at least a few others that are of high moral character and do care about this stuff. ( I just added quite a few new friends in the game)

Edited by user Tuesday, February 18, 2020 10:44:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#70 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 10:36:21 AM(UTC)
I just realised that the cheating rivals times were set by some of the same players I encountered in ranked FFA the other day, with the Chinese names.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#71 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 11:19:09 AM(UTC)
Then there is this from Oct 2, 2018. https://www.geeksultd.co...theyll-be-taken-care-of/
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#72 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 11:33:38 AM(UTC)
I just looked it up, and it seems Forza Horizon and Motorsport both run on an in-house developed ForzaTech game engine. So if protecting the variables isn't something PG can do, it certainly should be something T10 can do.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#73 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 11:34:26 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: luckeydoug1 Go to Quoted Post
Then there is this from Oct 2, 2018. https://www.geeksultd.co...theyll-be-taken-care-of/


Wow... where did it all go wrong?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#74 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 11:45:42 AM(UTC)
The direct quote "We Are Aware Of The Current Issue With Incorrect Times On The Leaderboards. Cheaters Will Be Taken Care Of And The Leaderboards Will Be Corrected." is quite interesting.

I wonder if the Leaderboards were ever corrected. It is well documented that they haven't been anytime recently.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#75 Posted : Tuesday, February 18, 2020 11:57:27 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Wow... where did it all go wrong?

Bear in mind that AFAIA Fortnite also has a cheating problem, even with its presumably massive budget. Being someone who writes C++ code as one part of my work, I have some understanding of the issues involved in trying to prevent cheating, and it's ultimately impossible to the best of my knowledge, all you can do at the moment is try to make it sufficiently difficult that people don't find it worthwhile to spend the time. If it can be made so that they have to repeat a month's work to make the cheats work again after each update, then at that point you've beaten them if you release a mandatory update once a month.

I can think of some ways I could make it harder than it is, but I'd expect someone with elite skills to need no more than a few days to get around it. The problem is they have access to the code that provides the protection, so anything your code does, they can see what it's doing. There is some discussion of a similar issue here - the impossibility of protecting encryption keys used by software:
https://stackoverflow.co...ns-memory-from-tampering

It really needs support at the hardware and OS level to isolate processes so they can't access each others' memory.
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