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Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#26 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 11:39:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GreenZombie76 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post

No thanks. I wouldn't bother putting times on there if they did that.


Oh right, Because being on the leaderboard longer than most console games remain relevant at all isn’t good enough. Quite frankly even Formula 1 drivers are expected to set a new time 12 months.

At any rate, a leaderboard of past champions by year is always more interesting than an eternal now with the top ~100 positions dominated by cheats. As every leaderboard is right now.
New ( and existing) players are faced with myriad danger signs with 1500m records, tracks with impossible times, but lets do nothing about it and be held hostage because players like @FullNietzsche wouldn’t bother setting any further times.

Thanks for your very unhelpful and downright selfish input.


The bolded section is not true. I know because I hold some #1 times.
There are some glitched/exploited times but it's way less dominant than you make it to be.

Edited by user Sunday, February 16, 2020 11:40:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#27 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 11:53:53 AM(UTC)
I struggle to believe that they can’t simply remove obviously fake times. I suspect it’s more a reluctance to have to make a call on what is or isn’t fake.

I would imagine that they will remove all those X Bow times which are clearly dodgy as they infest every S1 race and I suspect it’s too big an issue to ignore. However, if they’d just set them at one or two courses I doubt anything would have been done.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#28 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 12:05:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GreenZombie76 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post

No thanks. I wouldn't bother putting times on there if they did that.


Oh right, Because being on the leaderboard longer than most console games remain relevant at all isn’t good enough. Quite frankly even Formula 1 drivers are expected to set a new time 12 months.

At any rate, a leaderboard of past champions by year is always more interesting than an eternal now with the top ~100 positions dominated by cheats. As every leaderboard is right now.
New ( and existing) players are faced with myriad danger signs with 1500m records, tracks with impossible times, but lets do nothing about it and be held hostage because players like @FullNietzsche wouldn’t bother setting any further times.

Thanks for your very unhelpful and downright selfish input.


Record times in any sport whether it be Formula One or athletics, remain for all time. Rivals is a different discipline to racing. Forza has no qualifying so every time we race against other players, our performance then and there will stand on its own merits, for that race. But a lot of effort has gone into setting many of those legit top times, dozens or hundreds of laps maybe, to shave another tenth off, or even a hundredth. It would be an act of vandalism to wipe the boards for no good reason. You don't even seem to be very knowledgeable about it if you think the top 100 times are cheats. I have plenty of top 100 times, even some top 10s and I don't cheat. Nor do many of the other names which I recognise both from the forums and from the game - the 1% crew for example.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#29 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 12:21:49 PM(UTC)
Wiping the leaderboards every 12 months would achieve nothing, because why would the new times/speeds/distances be any less likely to be cheats? It's not the way to solve the problem, because it invalidates clean performances just as much as it invalidates cheat performances. Indeed, it would be much easier for a cheat to set a new top performance than for someone to do it without cheating, where they might spend a lot of time trying to do that perfect lap. A cheat can just spend a tiny amount of time and put a performance up that nobody can beat legitimately. Wiping legitimate performances would disrespect the effort people have put in to setting those times/speeds/distances, and would reduce the incentive to invest that effort in the first place. It would be like disqualifying all athletes from the Olympics because some of them probably used drugs. Action needs to be selective, only taken against cheaters, that is the way to reward legitimate performances.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#30 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 12:41:01 PM(UTC)
Footage of hackers

[Mod Edit - Don't name/shame on the forums. If you see suspicious behavior, report it via the Submit a Ticket link found at the bottom of articles at support.forzamotorsport.net - MM]

Edited by user Sunday, February 16, 2020 9:02:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#31 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 12:51:07 PM(UTC)
So no comments on my video showing me start races a second quicker than everyone else? While it doesn't guarantee an easy win, it is a clear advantage of gaining track position meaning fewer people to overtake. I know this is an unrelated issue to the rivals cheats, but as other videos were posted of people starting races 'early' it seems that this issue isn't something everyone is aware exists, without it necessarily being a hack, as in my case.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#32 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 12:57:35 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
So no comments on my video showing me start races a second quicker than everyone else?

I don't think you did actually start a second earlier. I'd need to have a local video file to step through to estimate it more accurately, but I'd say there was very little difference between when you started vs the car in front. IME many people are bad at tuning gear ratios and that accounts for a lot of it.

This is one where the one player that starts in front of me actually looks to start moving before me, and I'm on a PC. And when I had an Xbox, I did the Trial many times with Effinator, who has always played on PC, and I never noticed him starting moving significantly before me.

https://youtu.be/yblo8O2qGsM?t=300
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#33 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 1:15:04 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
So no comments on my video showing me start races a second quicker than everyone else?

I don't think you did actually start a second earlier. I'd need to have a local video file to step through to estimate it more accurately, but I'd say there was very little difference between when you started vs the car in front. IME many people are bad at tuning gear ratios and that accounts for a lot of it.

This is one where the one player that starts in front of me actually looks to start moving before me, and I'm on a PC. And when I had an Xbox, I did the Trial many times with Effinator, who has always played on PC, and I never noticed him starting moving significantly before me.

https://youtu.be/yblo8O2qGsM?t=300


It was a full second as far as I could see, I ran through it frame by frame in my video editor with the time counter in the smallest increments. Each car leaves tyre marks when it launches and everyone else's started a second after mine.

It could be that two people on PC will still have differing start times due to ping / geographical location I assume.

Did you watch where I put it in slow motion? I think it is very clear: https://youtu.be/b-o9ldQDdkg?t=11

Edited by user Sunday, February 16, 2020 1:17:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#34 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 1:29:25 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
I struggle to believe that they can’t simply remove obviously fake times. I suspect it’s more a reluctance to have to make a call on what is or isn’t fake.

I would imagine that they will remove all those X Bow times which are clearly dodgy as they infest every S1 race and I suspect it’s too big an issue to ignore. However, if they’d just set them at one or two courses I doubt anything would have been done.


They figured out how to hide the Track-tors, so why can't they apply a minimum effort and at least remove, for example, [F&N,] Only PSN 00:00.100 @ Greendale Circuit (S2)?
Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: Racing Permit
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#35 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 2:07:47 PM(UTC)
Just sent a ticket in to hopefully shake some sense into someone over there (seems like that usually does not much but who knows). Personally, I won't mind taking a break from this game if this kind of stuff gets worse and/or isn't looked into. Playground Games might want to be quick on this before the backlash begins to overwhelm the player base if they have plans for Forza H4 to live well into 2020

Edited by user Sunday, February 16, 2020 2:08:33 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#36 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 2:46:00 PM(UTC)
The impossible rivals times are likely related to a pretty well known glitch (easily exploitable glitch too) that had been around for at least a year. It was supposedly patched a couple months ago though.
https://forums.forzamoto...Indeed.aspx#post_1137390

It’d be nice if obviously impossible times and danger sign scores got wiped (like anything under ten seconds or jump distances that are further than the whole map) but removing anything from a LB seems to be a monumental task for whatever reason.

I don’t know anything about the speed boosting in online races (I gave up on racing online in FH4 a long time ago). From some of the vids though it seems pretty egregious/blatant/ridiculous. Sucks y’all have to deal with idiots like that :c
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#37 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 3:05:14 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Did you watch where I put it in slow motion? I think it is very clear: https://youtu.be/b-o9ldQDdkg?t=11

I did, yes, I'd need to be able to step through, but the car in front looks to start leaving tyres marks soon after you. The tyre marks aren't a perfect indicator anyway, as it depends on the tune - cars and tunes will differ in how soon they start to leave marks.

I see you start to move at 13 secs, and the car in front start to show marks at 16 secs. You say it's at 1/10th speed, so that's 0.3 seconds.

Edited by user Sunday, February 16, 2020 3:07:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#38 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 3:48:50 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Did you watch where I put it in slow motion? I think it is very clear: https://youtu.be/b-o9ldQDdkg?t=11

I did, yes, I'd need to be able to step through, but the car in front looks to start leaving tyres marks soon after you. The tyre marks aren't a perfect indicator anyway, as it depends on the tune - cars and tunes will differ in how soon they start to leave marks.

I see you start to move at 13 secs, and the car in front start to show marks at 16 secs. You say it's at 1/10th speed, so that's 0.3 seconds.


I guess to be scientific it would need a few people filming from their POV, all using the same car and tune.

I'm just wondering if it is plausible that one of those alleged cheats in an online race could have been simply a worst case scenario of platform / ping differences. Are people with widely different pings placed together? I would say yes they must be because I remember finding myself in a race with DaReoCharmer before, and he's ~5,500 miles away.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#39 Posted : Sunday, February 16, 2020 4:08:57 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: X1XPopTarTsX1X Go to Quoted Post
Just sent a ticket in to hopefully shake some sense into someone over there (seems like that usually does not much but who knows). Personally, I won't mind taking a break from this game if this kind of stuff gets worse and/or isn't looked into. Playground Games might want to be quick on this before the backlash begins to overwhelm the player base if they have plans for Forza H4 to live well into 2020


With a bit of luck, someone will look at your ticket within 2 months!

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#40 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 12:20:14 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MeGaWoNsZ9PL Go to Quoted Post
its a hack

type on google "forza horizon 4 speed hack" and you can downlaod this ****

kids have fun when they won

rammers, cheaters and free roam rush only in FH4 xD


I quote MeGaWoNsZ9PL because some could think there is just the sync/start quicker issue. Just do the google and you will find out that hack it there for good. I am on Xbox so I cannot confirm it is indeed working but from what I witnessed online those last days, it makes little doubts it works.

For the start like rocket, I am on xbox and most often when racing online I am leading at the first turn. Reason is many have TCS and automatic clutch. Regardless that, I witnessed some cars starting before others but impact is like half a sec, nothing that compares to speed hack. Possibly it is a consequence of the speed hack ...

Edited by user Monday, February 17, 2020 12:22:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#41 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 2:10:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Possibly it is a consequence of the speed hack ...

Some quotes from a discussion thread about it:

"Really nice, you can start races early with this too lmao"

"How diligent is PG about banning cheaters?"
"They're not bothered at all I don't think, I'm number one on an online speed trap and I haven't been banned or even warned"

"Been using this for almost a week now and it's really fun to use, it keeps me wanting to play the game"

It doesn't matter what you do in life, people will cheat at it.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#42 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 2:53:35 AM(UTC)
Yes, that forum is a depressing read. I love the idea that having access to a cheat is what’s needed to encourage someone to keep playing the game. Fantastic mentality that!

Hopefully they will be able to ban these cheaters and patch whatever enables them to do it (although no doubt someone will find another workaround).
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#43 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 3:10:27 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Possibly it is a consequence of the speed hack ...

Some quotes from a discussion thread about it:

"Really nice, you can start races early with this too lmao"

"How diligent is PG about banning cheaters?"
"They're not bothered at all I don't think, I'm number one on an online speed trap and I haven't been banned or even warned"

"Been using this for almost a week now and it's really fun to use, it keeps me wanting to play the game"

It doesn't matter what you do in life, people will cheat at it.


Sad. Makes you wonder about the wisdom of bringing the game to the PC... but I guess it's all about the money. Integrity seems lacking on both sides to some degree.

I would have bought an Xbox One X for this game alone, but as it's on PC I didn't need to. I assume cheating like this is impossible on console, it certainly ought to be.

If you are going to have games on PC with a strong multiplayer component, you need to be on top of cheaters. Most developers would do this as they know that cheaters harm their product, their reputation and ultimately their business. But I guess when you're a first party dev of a trillion dollar company, you know you aren't going to go hungry any time soon so maybe they think it doesn't matter.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#44 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 3:12:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Yes, that forum is a depressing read. I love the idea that having access to a cheat is what’s needed to encourage someone to keep playing the game. Fantastic mentality that!

Hopefully they will be able to ban these cheaters and patch whatever enables them to do it (although no doubt someone will find another workaround).


You have to wonder at the mentality of people who take joy from 'winning' a race or setting a fast speed trap when they did so only because of a cheat. What is the point? Then again I doubt we're dealing with very deep thinkers here.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#45 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 4:09:48 AM(UTC)
Just played some ranked free-for-all, A class. Had what I assume were three cheaters, from the same clan. All launched early and were specks in the distance after 10 seconds, two had Fiat Abarths at 795 PI and the other had a Ferrari 355. Three short races, I DNF'd one of them and nearly the others, which never happens.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#46 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 4:55:23 AM(UTC)
they should close rivals for now and at least state they are aware of the issue and working on it.

Edited by user Monday, February 17, 2020 4:57:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#47 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 5:01:12 AM(UTC)
Why close rivals? Any dodgy times should just be capable of being deleted and there’s no detriment to those of us playing Rivals clean. Arguably, they should close Team Adventure and FFA if this a prevalent issue currently as people will otherwise be losing ranking points against these cheats (well, or would be if the ranking points weren’t also stuck).
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#48 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 5:02:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
they should close rivals for now and at least state they are aware of the issue and working on it.


I just tried it, it seems to work, ie. I get to the page where you select a reason for wanting support from the drop down menu.

I note that there is no way to report suspected cheaters though.

The Forza page which supposedly tells you how to report cheaters simply tells you to report them to Xbox, rather than to Forza themselves.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#49 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 5:16:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post

Did you see my post about how the behaviour on a PC is different depending on frame rate? Some tunes of the 599 XX Evo are about 15mph slower if you run at 120fps compared to 30, 40 or 60fps.

That's a sure thing. Speed glitch doesn't work on 60 FPS on consoles so it could be similar on PC. If you have a thread we can continue there.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#50 Posted : Monday, February 17, 2020 5:24:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post

Did you see my post about how the behaviour on a PC is different depending on frame rate? Some tunes of the 599 XX Evo are about 15mph slower if you run at 120fps compared to 30, 40 or 60fps.

That's a sure thing. Speed glitch doesn't work on 60 FPS on consoles so it could be similar on PC. If you have a thread we can continue there.

This is the thread with a discussion about the 599XX Evo and tunes giving different results for different people:
https://forums.forzamoto...hrough-traffic-cars.aspx

I see you already posted 11 days before I discovered the different behaviour with fps on PC.
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