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Rank: Driver's Permit
#1 Posted : Sunday, December 29, 2019 1:29:29 PM(UTC)
I was wondering how this game preforms with a wheel and whether you guys would recommend it.

Thanks for the input!
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#2 Posted : Sunday, December 29, 2019 4:24:08 PM(UTC)
Theres a lot of cars in this game and I cant say every one of them will feel great. There are many ways to tune cars to make them better suit using a wheel as well as a good amount of settings to tweak the ffb to find something that you'll like, but just expect to do these things if you get the game. So if you have a wheel already and the game is cheap you have nothing to lose, but if you dont have a wheel this wouldn't be the one I'd recommend you get first.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#3 Posted : Monday, December 30, 2019 1:28:33 PM(UTC)
Hi. Wheel support is good. On PC mapping buttons is a breeze. Some cars are better than others but generally it's not bad. FFB settings are excellent. Having said all that I wouldn't recommend paying full price. Have a look around the forum. The game has faults, some quite major.

Edited by user Monday, December 30, 2019 1:29:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#4 Posted : Thursday, January 2, 2020 9:49:16 AM(UTC)
The wheel in this game wa an after thought. Physics are horrible. It can be fun if you have time to sit down adjust each and every setting just to find out it won't work for the next car. I hope forza 8 will be better for the wheel.
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#5 Posted : Thursday, January 2, 2020 5:42:21 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Thunders29 Go to Quoted Post
The wheel in this game wa an after thought. Physics are horrible. It can be fun if you have time to sit down adjust each and every setting just to find out it won't work for the next car. I hope forza 8 will be better for the wheel.


I disagree. Sorry Thunder. Poor physics are there but it's a general fault not wheel support implementation. Wheel support has been there since early titles. It cannot be an afterthought. I'm all for pointing out many and in some cases (borderline) inexcusable omissions and shortcomings in FM7 but wheel support IMO is not one of them. Yes, there is a large number of FFB settings which are not one size fits all cars and therefore need some effort to get it dialed in and does not always fit some cars. If the game had a more basic set of tweaks we'd be complaining there's not enough. If there's one thing well done in FM7 it's wheel support. It could possibly be the only thing really done well.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2020 7:44:50 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Bart Ziemski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Thunders29 Go to Quoted Post
The wheel in this game wa an after thought. Physics are horrible. It can be fun if you have time to sit down adjust each and every setting just to find out it won't work for the next car. I hope forza 8 will be better for the wheel.


I disagree. Sorry Thunder. Poor physics are there but it's a general fault not wheel support implementation. Wheel support has been there since early titles. It cannot be an afterthought. I'm all for pointing out many and in some cases (borderline) inexcusable omissions and shortcomings in FM7 but wheel support IMO is not one of them. Yes, there is a large number of FFB settings which are not one size fits all cars and therefore need some effort to get it dialed in and does not always fit some cars. If the game had a more basic set of tweaks we'd be complaining there's not enough. If there's one thing well done in FM7 it's wheel support. It could possibly be the only thing really done well.


Non-sense. Just because wheel has been there for ages doesnt mean it wasnt an afterthought or a poorly worked up project. Im not sure if you have played anything else on a wheel but wheel support is def not a strong point of forza. Still has the worst force feedback of any racing game/sim even after the updates. Hence the reason someone went as far as completely rewriting it for those lucky enough to be playing it on pc. Please dont tout their wheel support as good otherwise they may think its good enough and will not continue to get it to levels where it should be matching the other titles.

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#7 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2020 1:43:41 PM(UTC)
Aside from FM I've played / am playing PC, PC2, AC, ACC, Dirt rally, DR2 and various F1 titles. All with a wheel on PC. FM7 has more FFB settings and when done right I don't see an apreciable difference between it and other games.

Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Please dont tout their wheel support as good otherwise they may think its good enough and will not continue to get it to levels where it should be matching the other titles.

As I said before it is my opinion. I asume I can have one. It would be wrong of me to ask you not to disagree with them.

Expecting FM to match any other serious title is wishful thinking. Having said that I don't think I have the kind of sway so if my opinion is different from the majority devlopers will hear the majority and maybe implement some of the wishes.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#8 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2020 5:13:04 PM(UTC)
Sure, wheel support in FM7 is OK.. not sure why more FFB options are necessarily a good thing, when the outcome of changing settings is vague at best. Remembers the horror that was Pcars1 FFB tuning in an endless mess of parameters to touch. One can look at a good FFB model, like iRacing, and see there are very few knobs to dial. And most cases you only need to change the FFB Gain from car to car(can even modify gain while racing, not in Forza though, plan on bouncing back and forth between track and menus a lot).

If you plan to race online in public lobbies, I would say not to bother with a wheel. Forza is made for a gamepad, and 99% of people you will be playing against are on a gamepad. Since this is more of a casual racer, you can't expect many to make use of actual racing lines, let alone be able to stay on the track. Wheel users likely use cockpit/dash/bonnet cam, and depending on the car, this can be a very limited view(no camera customization). Gamepad users on the other hand will likely be in 3rd person view, which is much easier to see 360° around the car. So you tend to give much more room on a wheel when side-by-side than you need to, which probably costs you the position. Another annoying thing, it's quite simple to catch a slide or save a shunt with a gamepad, just give the joystick a wiggle. But with a wheel, you do a lot of work saving yourself from a barrier, as it will come often in Forza.

The wheel league I was in for a short time had great racing, but that doesn't happen too often, as far as I'm aware. It would nice if we could get a multiplayer hopper that was restricted to wheels only, would definitely make me reconsider.

Edited by user Friday, January 3, 2020 5:14:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#9 Posted : Sunday, January 5, 2020 4:46:42 AM(UTC)
FFB in Forza 7 is the best it has been in a long time. FM5 and FM6 had pretty bad FFB. Turn10 has definitely made a much greater effort with FFB wheel support in Forza 7.

However, it is still somewhat lagging behind other racing games as far as total implementation. Project CARS out-of-the-box worked pretty damn well for me on a wheel, whereas Forza 7 definitely required some tweaking.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Sunday, January 5, 2020 10:53:38 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
FFB in Forza 7 is the best it has been in a long time. FM5 and FM6 had pretty bad FFB. Turn10 has definitely made a much greater effort with FFB wheel support in Forza 7.

However, it is still somewhat lagging behind other racing games as far as total implementation. Project CARS out-of-the-box worked pretty damn well for me on a wheel, whereas Forza 7 definitely required some tweaking.


Yea, not on the level of PC2 as is nothing else in FM7 but I agree you can see the effort T10 made. Takes time to set it but time well spent.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2020 9:19:28 AM(UTC)
It's quite the rabbit hole for sure, but once you get where you want to be, it's not bad at all. Although, you may never get there...

That doesn't mean that every car is great by any means.
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#12 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2020 11:47:44 AM(UTC)
Is this game good with a wheel? Not particularly, in my opinion, but that's ok though, because it's as casual race sim as if I've ever seen in my life. If you already have a wheel, then by all means use it with Forza and have fun. Personally, I would never spend a lot of money to get a wheel specifically for this game because (again, in my opinion) the force feedback is mediocre at best. If you're interested in buying a wheel and pedals to really get into sim racing, learn, improve yourself, etc, I would look at some of the other titles available. If you want to bang around with a huge car list and pass some time, Forza's a good way to go.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2020 3:42:14 PM(UTC)
I make realistic tunes for Forza Motorsport 7 as sort of a hobby. I put hours and hours into them until I think they're absolutely perfect. Now I play FM7 a heck of a lot and I've put countless days into refining tunes, Force Feedback and studying how both work between one another.

Is Forza good on a wheel? Yes, very infarct, however it so hard, almost damn impossible to set it up correctly because Turn 10 most of the time even manage to scre up things they get right. Force feedback is one of those things. It's done pretty well but then so poorly advertised.

The descriptions they give you for each settings are poor, vague and some times plain incorrect. The only way to know what each setting does is to go on their support site and read it which 99% of people probably don't know even exists.

The stock settings are so bad it's laughable and even contradict what is said in the support site. For example, they say that setting the Centre Spring Scale too high effectively cancels out dynamic Forza Feedback and yet it's set to 100% in stock settings which laughably cancels out dynamic Force Feedback.

The settings themselves are also very odd. Load Sensitivity for example, will actually alter the maximum force which might sound odd but after hours upon hours of testing, I can assure you it does, which means that you might have everything perfect, you alter load sensitivity and just like that your FFB is clipping again.

Then there's the bugs. No FFB below 13 KM/H which isn't a bad thing but why it even is a thing I'll never know. Handicaps causing clipping, etc.

Then there's the lack of proper softlocking, lack of features in general, no FOV or POV adjustments etc etc.

I'll put it this way. I place Assetto Corsa and Forza 7 a heck of a lot and I got the Force Feedback on Forza to feel almost as good as AC. That's pretty impressive but it no joke, took me weeks if not months to get it to that point. Unless you're prepared to put in a tonne of hours to do the same, I'd say stay far away.

Rank: Racing Permit
#14 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2020 11:44:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AP Colin Girth Go to Quoted Post
Personally, I would never spend a lot of money to get a wheel specifically for this game because (again, in my opinion) the force feedback is mediocre at best.

Yes, I just did that back in 2017, bought a Thrustmaster TMX Pro (the entry model racing wheels) and a wheel stand (which costs another 100+ dollars/euros) when I saw the Forza Motorsports 7 trailers and played the demo. :D
Fortunately Project CARS was offered for free for Games with Gold on Xbox Live and I played Project CARS first which was fun and exciting with the racing wheel. I was a bit disappointed to later learn that the wheel/force feedback implementation isn't that good in Forza Motorsports 7 and it took me a while to configure it so that it feels enjoyable.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Saturday, January 18, 2020 11:00:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
I make realistic tunes for Forza Motorsport 7 as sort of a hobby. I put hours and hours into them until I think they're absolutely perfect. Now I play FM7 a heck of a lot and I've put countless days into refining tunes, Force Feedback and studying how both work between one another.

Is Forza good on a wheel? Yes, very infarct, however it so hard, almost damn impossible to set it up correctly because Turn 10 most of the time even manage to scre up things they get right. Force feedback is one of those things. It's done pretty well but then so poorly advertised.

The descriptions they give you for each settings are poor, vague and some times plain incorrect. The only way to know what each setting does is to go on their support site and read it which 99% of people probably don't know even exists.

The stock settings are so bad it's laughable and even contradict what is said in the support site. For example, they say that setting the Centre Spring Scale too high effectively cancels out dynamic Forza Feedback and yet it's set to 100% in stock settings which laughably cancels out dynamic Force Feedback.

The settings themselves are also very odd. Load Sensitivity for example, will actually alter the maximum force which might sound odd but after hours upon hours of testing, I can assure you it does, which means that you might have everything perfect, you alter load sensitivity and just like that your FFB is clipping again.

Then there's the bugs. No FFB below 13 KM/H which isn't a bad thing but why it even is a thing I'll never know. Handicaps causing clipping, etc.

Then there's the lack of proper softlocking, lack of features in general, no FOV or POV adjustments etc etc.

I'll put it this way. I place Assetto Corsa and Forza 7 a heck of a lot and I got the Force Feedback on Forza to feel almost as good as AC. That's pretty impressive but it no joke, took me weeks if not months to get it to that point. Unless you're prepared to put in a tonne of hours to do the same, I'd say stay far away.



For some reason I loved the FFB with the old CSR elite setup in FM4, and played F1 at the time(still my favorite of all) for hundreds of hours with a wheel and tuned for it(and was a big painter). Never bought a wheel for XBONE as I had a child at the same time and went controller only (GTAV/Red Ded/Horizon for driving-about all I had time for). Bought FM7 at launch and the hokey reward crates and horrific controller play put me off(after about 3 hours). I sold off my CSR elite stuff(only to find out a couple years later you can emulate it for XB1 with an $80 bit of kit...)

As soon as I found out Scarlett would be compatible recently went out and bought a CSW base and LC pedals, back in the saddle(with a bit more time for the likes of AC/F1/PC2), and fired FM7 back up. Finally got my settings 90% tolerable for FM7 after many hours of tweaking. Have to stop somewhere as you know some tracks/cars in FM7 are never going to be good enough regardless. I remember getting the CSR right and never touching it again, except the occasional FFB/rotation setting for certain cars. The only redeeming thing about FM7 as you can save it per car with a global standard in the settings for the rest.

Got back into tuning what I needed to tune to get through the required career levels, have no problem tuning both for performance and to help the FFB. For the better experiences, I've quite enjoyed them, like the early 1950's GP cars series run at long length, for a good 4 hours of solid racing in cars that run 'crooked' around an entire track. They are so much better modeled then I thought they would be. Other ones like the 'rally' challenge, I'm just NEVER going to torture myself with it. I already know I'm not going to bother with about 450 of the available cars, especially the hyper cars. I'd rather wallow, slide, and roll around corners in a Porsche 928. Also really want to spend some time in the Mclaren M8.

Good to see a wheel tuner on here. There are a lot of cars I am going to just download tunes and create races with, I'm particularly a fan of the 60-'s-80's racers and sports cars this game offers, and the GT2/3 stuff. Seems like that group just 'works' with FM7, tuned to where they're 'supposed' to be, or a class or two bump max. Never a fan of Horizon's AWD 1000 horsepower Civics that seems to be the norm there.

I'll follow you and keep an eye out for some of your tunes. It really makes a huge difference if someone tunes any parameter when using a wheel. ;) My old tunes used to say wheel tune Fanatec, etc in the title or description.

When I put a 934 body kit on a 930, I kept it RWD with a bunch of body roll and lift throttle oversteer. Without aero(messing up the look), I never tuned it past S class(where it should be-and was a proper handfull). It would never survive in a lobby, but sure as heck drove like a 934. At the same time, I also removed the turbo and built a N/A 911SC, with 4 gear ratios matched exactly to the original in b class(5th gear was lowered so much to be unusable). Really was(and kind of still is) the best part of this game.

Edited by user Saturday, January 18, 2020 11:14:08 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Sunday, January 19, 2020 2:22:10 AM(UTC)
Forza is good that way but unfortunately, Turn 10 don't play to their strengths. The upgrade and handicap system is what makes Forza so special and it's where it's potential lies. League racing is the future for Forza but they need to add and improve upon existing features.

The reason I love Forza so much is because I can change the physics to what I feel like is realistic. In no other game can you do that without modifying the game. The upgrade and handicap system means that you can essentially BOP any car to any other car which is extremely unique and a feature that goes wasted.

Right now I'm just trying to learn the physics engine inside and out and I'm currently trying to BOP all the GT cars in FM7 so when FM8 comes out, I'll start up a proper GT league.
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#17 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2020 7:28:20 AM(UTC)
Obviously unconfirmed at this point in time, but FM8 or whatever they end up calling it reportedly will have a new physics engine. Just something to keep in mind. ;)
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#18 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2020 8:45:06 AM(UTC)
Apparently they are finally modeling actual working suspension independently of the chassis, pretty much the way AC has always done it.
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#19 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2020 11:08:31 AM(UTC)
I'll warn everyone to keep their hopes low.

The main problem with Forza isn't the physics, it's the lack of refinement and poor stock set-ups due to having 800+ cars.

Until that list gets sliced to around 200, no physics change is going to make huge differences to how a car feels without any work done to it.
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#20 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 3:59:33 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
I'll warn everyone to keep their hopes low.

The main problem with Forza isn't the physics, it's the lack of refinement and poor stock set-ups due to having 800+ cars.

Until that list gets sliced to around 200, no physics change is going to make huge differences to how a car feels without any work done to it.


+1

There's just no way to accurately simulate 800+ cars. When the catalogue gets to that point, it largely becomes a game of copy/paste for the devs.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2020 2:57:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
I'll warn everyone to keep their hopes low.

The main problem with Forza isn't the physics, it's the lack of refinement and poor stock set-ups due to having 800+ cars.

Until that list gets sliced to around 200, no physics change is going to make huge differences to how a car feels without any work done to it.


Yip. 200 or so is the sweet spot. Like other Sims. Never really understood why we need a GMC crp mobile, teenage civics, Kirby salesman BMW's, off the shelf pick ups and school run cars. Who really wants to race that crp? Not much motorsport in those dreary "machines". There's even a beetle... how awesome is that?

Edited by user Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:08:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:01:24 PM(UTC)
Double post. Sorry

Edited by user Sunday, January 26, 2020 3:02:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#23 Posted : Sunday, January 26, 2020 7:45:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Bart Ziemski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
I'll warn everyone to keep their hopes low.

The main problem with Forza isn't the physics, it's the lack of refinement and poor stock set-ups due to having 800+ cars.

Until that list gets sliced to around 200, no physics change is going to make huge differences to how a car feels without any work done to it.


Yip. 200 or so is the sweet spot. Like other Sims. Never really understood why we need a GMC crp mobile, teenage civics, Kirby salesman BMW's, off the shelf pick ups and school run cars. Who really wants to race that crp? Not much motorsport in those dreary "machines". There's even a beetle... how awesome is that?


Although it'd be less of a gamble for turn 10 to cut the car list like polyphony did because the horizon series could still be the car collecting game, the question would be what kind of cars would stay. Licensing many popular race cars might be a real issue right now due to other games holding them. ACC has the blancpain series, Codemasters has f1, raceroom has dtm, GTR 3 is said to be featuring cars from the FIA World Endurance Championship and who knows what Pcars 3 will do.

If a more sim focused motorsport game is going to compete it's going to need a solid line up of cars people are going to want to invest their time and money into, not the random mish mash it has now. Sims are usually geared more towards people who will focus on one type of car if not one car to get the most out of it.

Thens theres the fact that if the new motorsport went down this path, they'd be in direct competition with these other sims. So they would be forced to really knock it out of the park to draw players away from these other titles and I dont know if that's a chance they could nor should take. If it fails, it will fail hard, gt sport didnt do so well compared to its predecessors but it had the luxury of being the only gran turismo on this gen of playstaion and it does add a quality multiplayer component that other titles on the ps4 lack.

I still believe motorsport 8 can continue on with the big car list and its level of simulation, it's what makes it unique. I've said it a hundred times before but I think if they were to add the sim options these other games have it would go a long way. I think the physics are realistic enough to suit most players but the ffb needs to be better. Even with the added tuning options it never feels natural and without a major physics overhaul (like brand new), I dont know if this can be remedied.
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#24 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2020 6:02:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bart Ziemski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
I'll warn everyone to keep their hopes low.

The main problem with Forza isn't the physics, it's the lack of refinement and poor stock set-ups due to having 800+ cars.

Until that list gets sliced to around 200, no physics change is going to make huge differences to how a car feels without any work done to it.


Yip. 200 or so is the sweet spot. Like other Sims. Never really understood why we need a GMC crp mobile, teenage civics, Kirby salesman BMW's, off the shelf pick ups and school run cars. Who really wants to race that crp? Not much motorsport in those dreary "machines". There's even a beetle... how awesome is that?


Although it'd be less of a gamble for turn 10 to cut the car list like polyphony did because the horizon series could still be the car collecting game, the question would be what kind of cars would stay. Licensing many popular race cars might be a real issue right now due to other games holding them. ACC has the blancpain series, Codemasters has f1, raceroom has dtm, GTR 3 is said to be featuring cars from the FIA World Endurance Championship and who knows what Pcars 3 will do.

If a more sim focused motorsport game is going to compete it's going to need a solid line up of cars people are going to want to invest their time and money into, not the random mish mash it has now. Sims are usually geared more towards people who will focus on one type of car if not one car to get the most out of it.

Thens theres the fact that if the new motorsport went down this path, they'd be in direct competition with these other sims. So they would be forced to really knock it out of the park to draw players away from these other titles and I dont know if that's a chance they could nor should take. If it fails, it will fail hard, gt sport didnt do so well compared to its predecessors but it had the luxury of being the only gran turismo on this gen of playstaion and it does add a quality multiplayer component that other titles on the ps4 lack.

I still believe motorsport 8 can continue on with the big car list and its level of simulation, it's what makes it unique. I've said it a hundred times before but I think if they were to add the sim options these other games have it would go a long way. I think the physics are realistic enough to suit most players but the ffb needs to be better. Even with the added tuning options it never feels natural and without a major physics overhaul (like brand new), I dont know if this can be remedied.

There's changes they can make to the existing physics that would make it far better. You can do it yourself with upgrades, tuning and handicaps. From my testing Forza needs to:

Increase the Drivetrain loss of cars significantly, particularly RWD cars and FWD cars. AWD cars are pretty close but still not quite there. From testing, around 8 to 10% more for RWD cars, around 2 to 5% for AWD and around 4 to 7% for FWD cars. That'd stop cars being ridiculously fast in acceleration, particularly the 1/4, 1/2 mile and top speed. It would probably balance out the PI system as well.

Downforce needs to generate more drag for almost every car. GT cars are notoriously bad.

Tire wear needs to be fixed.

Race tires should increase grip more.

Almost every race car should come with adjustable brakes from the factory. A lot of GT cars especially, don't.

Most cars have too powerfull brakes.

Cars are typically over-damped in tuning in stock setups.

There's a lot of inconsistencies in stock setups (incorrect gear ratios, incorrect differential values, incorrect cool rate, etc)

Maximum Caster and Camber value should be increased.

Operating temperature for tires should be decreaed.

Heat should increase PSI more.

Stock setups shouldn't all come with tire pressures at 30.0 PSI.

That's a few things Forza could do to the existing physics and system that'd improve the game massively without even changing anything. You can currently do almost all of this yourself in tuning, upgrades and handicaps.

This with the few physics inprovementa they've mentioned should do wonders.


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#25 Posted : Monday, January 27, 2020 6:04:42 AM(UTC)
Also, forgot to post, Forza only needs a maximum of 12 cars per division unless the maximum number of cars per race increase. Any more than 12 cars per division and it becomes pointless because most series at least have 2 cars per team.
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