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Rank: Driver's License
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#101 Posted : Sunday, May 3, 2020 8:07:50 AM(UTC)
Bump.

How can you have this problem for half a year and act like it doesn't exist? If I have known about it earlier I would've asked for a refund.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#102 Posted : Sunday, May 3, 2020 11:04:52 AM(UTC)
I have this problem too, im stuck at rank 8 even though i've won my 13 last ranked games. Kinda **** ed of right naw!
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#103 Posted : Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:38:01 AM(UTC)
Dear All:

I've been playing RANKED TEAM for the last few weeks.

There's a lot of testing going on for increasing or decreasing integrals.

Plan 1:When the total number of players in the first game is 12, there must be 12 players at the end of the game.Otherwise the score you get, or the score you lose, is a false score.

Plan 2:When the total number of players in the first game is 8, and there are still 8 players at the end of the game, the points gained or lost by both sides are equally valid.

Plan 3:In any game, if one of the players quits midway through the game, or before the end of the game, neither of the winners nor the losers will add to the score or subtract from the score.

tips 1:There are many players with high scores who will drop out of the game before the end of the game if they lose, so they won't lose any points.

tips 2:When someone drops out in the middle of the race, the score you settle after finishing the race will be reset after the next race, so many friends who say that the score has not increased, most of them are in this situation.

tips 3:Usually in the case of team voice collaboration, some teams will tell one or two of their teammates that they are deliberately running the slowest in the game, so that the opposite player will not quit the game, but only need to win 50-250 points per game, so that they will win the real points when they finish.

I hope my experience can help those of you who want to get marks. Good luck!



Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#104 Posted : Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:54:06 PM(UTC)
Plans 1 to 3 above are the same. No matter the number of players at the start, if anyone drops out then no one gets points. If no one drops out, the points stand.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#105 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:06:51 AM(UTC)
with the update for Series 22 there is no fix visible in the release notes.
Rank: Driver's License
#106 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:13:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: saolsaol Go to Quoted Post
tips 1:There are many players with high scores who will drop out of the game before the end of the game if they lose, so they won't lose any points.

just take a look at the grandmaster player list and find the players with significantly more defeats than victories
there are even grandmasters with more than 100 defeats.
Rank: Driver's License
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#107 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:17:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Spatz971 Go to Quoted Post
with the update for Series 22 there is no fix visible in the release notes.

of course. it affects several million players if the color of any screw is not correct. there are the few thousand ranked online players just peanuts.

Rank: Driver's License
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#108 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:18:45 AM(UTC)
new update and still this same issues, no major bug fixes that completely ruin online gameplay

it's insane what this guys doing

ok ,they do nothing xD

Edited by user Wednesday, May 6, 2020 12:20:58 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#109 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 5:46:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
No matter the number of players at the start, if anyone drops out then no one gets points. If no one drops out, the points stand.

So is this the entire issue? I can see why they made it work like this, as we know people were gaming the system when you still got points after people dropped out, by deliberately joining in a convoy with players who would quit. The current system can still be gamed by people quitting, but at the least the honest people don't lose ranking points as a result, they just fail to gain them.

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but has anyone proposed a system for how players dropping out should be handled that isn't able to be gamed?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#110 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 6:08:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
No matter the number of players at the start, if anyone drops out then no one gets points. If no one drops out, the points stand.

So is this the entire issue? I can see why they made it work like this, as we know people were gaming the system when you still got points after people dropped out, by deliberately joining in a convoy with players who would quit. The current system can still be gamed by people quitting, but at the least the honest people don't lose ranking points as a result, they just fail to gain them.

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but has anyone proposed a system for how players dropping out should be handled that isn't able to be gamed?


Well, not like this - it's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I don't have a solution, but I'm the customer, I don't need to figure out how to fix a broken product, that's up to the developers.

Even when we suggest solutions to problems, such as the car reset issue, they don't listen anyway.

Edited by user Wednesday, May 6, 2020 6:08:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#111 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 6:15:07 AM(UTC)
So far as I can work out, that’s the entire issue. However, it applies to around 95% of all races so it’s fairly significant, particularly as a lot of higher ranked players clearly game it so they only ever increase ranking. It did not work like that initially and if they made that change intentionally, without bothering to tell anyone, it was an incredibly dumb way of trying to solve it.

The obvious way of dealing with people dropping out is having a harsh penalty system (assuming it’s possible to distinguish disconnects from deliberate drop outs). Also, reverting back to the old rule that points count against someone who drops out for that race would stop it happening in the last race.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#112 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 6:40:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
assuming it’s possible to distinguish disconnects from deliberate drop outs

This is the usual problem - you can't distinguish. Someone can pull the network cable out, and you can't tell the difference between that and the connection breaking for other reasons. Most games treat disconnects as the same as the person finishing last, but the problem for team games is it's easy to see how that can be gamed. Join in a convoy with 5 friends, and at the same time all 6 of you use a 2nd device to queue up as a random with another account. Then after matchmaking everyone pulls out the cable on their 2nd device, and any of those 6 that were on the opposing team contribute to an easy win. It's a fundamental problem with online team competition.
Rank: Driver's License
#113 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 8:42:54 AM(UTC)
In theory, such manipulation is already possible today. but this does not seem to work, since the team composition also goes according to the ranking of the players / team.

fortunately, the chance that the team with the 2nd account will meet the team with the 1st account is rather unlikely.

a possible solution for the disconnects:
1x within 24h = 1h break.
2x within 24h = 3h break.
3x within 24h = 24h break.

if someone really has 3x problems with their internet within 24 hours, then they should deal with the provider.

but how is a disconnect rated during the game or how should it be rated?
today it is pretended that the player did not play. this makes it easy to manipulate the game.
it would be an idea to score the player in the current race, at the end of the table. 1st quit = 12th place. 2nd quit 11th place etc.
in subsequent races, it will be judged as it started. So without these players.
that would be reasonably fair.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#114 Posted : Wednesday, May 6, 2020 4:57:31 PM(UTC)
so what everyone has said. this was suppose to be the next big thing in forza games. it went out the gate broken and no one likes it.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#115 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:39:02 AM(UTC)
I ended last season in ranked playground at rank 7(3480) and now in new season after one game (win) im on rank 7(3450). This "microsoft TrueSkill" rank system doesn't work in the realities of this game (+ bugs bugs bugs) I hope in Forza Horizon 5 they change rank-system.

Rank: Driver's Permit
#116 Posted : Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:45:53 AM(UTC)
I am getting different seasonal challenges to my friends, is this normal?
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#117 Posted : Monday, May 11, 2020 1:04:30 PM(UTC)
Screw this, support are just closing tickets everytime we talk about this, they won't do anything for it! Im done thats it, been awarded 443 points because our underdog teams have beaten two grand masters, but one of them left within seconds of the third race, so those points won't count, suposed to be at rank 3 rn still stuck for days at rank 5, thank you playground, thank you very much!
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#118 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2020 11:56:36 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
No matter the number of players at the start, if anyone drops out then no one gets points. If no one drops out, the points stand.

So is this the entire issue? I can see why they made it work like this, as we know people were gaming the system when you still got points after people dropped out, by deliberately joining in a convoy with players who would quit. The current system can still be gamed by people quitting, but at the least the honest people don't lose ranking points as a result, they just fail to gain them.

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but has anyone proposed a system for how players dropping out should be handled that isn't able to be gamed?


Nope, the issue is slightly a bit different. About a year and five months ago, I started playing team games daily. Its was an hourly practice, starting from the bottom in unranked and improving myself. A month later, I decided to join ranked team games. The progressions was easy up to rank 9, where most players reach a saturation point. In essence, I didn't join any team and just played games competitively on my own. My purpose, still the same today - to customise and tune cars for team games. The grandmaster title was clearly beyond my reach since I wasn't in a team.

It was during this time when I started noticing a trend. Single or dual grandmasters in a team with smurf accounts. Their pattern was distinctively clear. At the end of a match, their team, due to their highly equipped cars and strategy usually wins the round. However, in the last round before the match ended, all the smurfs will leave the game leaving two high ranked players in the game. At the end of that round, these players would earn at least 50 points. It then dawned on me the failure of Microsoft True Skill (MTS) to have countermeasures in place to prevent such things from happening in the first place. I did what most people would do - contacted support. Although with multiple evidences of such malpractice from the teams and no backing from support, I decided to leaved ranked entirely to play unranked games instead. The benefits were there - no way to cheat MTS system, the opportunity to test my tunes with ease and and more or less relaxing match. This was a year and two months ago.

With the introduction of the star card system, brought many players back to the ranked system, but the issue became more apparent due to the increase of players playing ranked games and adventure and the issue being slightly had to ignore at this point. I pretty much left ranked at this point, because I didn't sign up for this for ranked events and is the sole reason why I play unranked at the moment, as sessions syncs are a pain.

I would like to think that the current situation prevents the above situation from happening, However, I do understand why most people will be peeved about it. I think the team tried to roll out a fix for this but backfired to the current situation by the looks of it. Hopefully, an update in the future will rectify this. But, I really doubt it with MTS being the core of ranked events

Edited by user Monday, August 3, 2020 11:25:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#119 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2020 1:42:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
I would like to think that the current situation prevents the above situation from happening, However, I do understand why most people will be peeved about it. I think the team tried to roll out a fix for this but backfired to the current situation by the looks of it. Hopefully, an update in the future will rectify this. But, I really doubt it with MTS being the core of ranked events


It pretty much stops anything from happening. It’s now a nonsensical situation where 99% of higher ranked players just quit if they are going to lose - and therefore never lose any points.

Communication around this issue has been absolutely appalling. If it was intended as some sort of fix, the community could have swiftly told them how stupid an idea it was. If it was an error, then how is it not fixed 6 months later? Why has there been no communication at all other than a one liner in the support notes to say (inaccurately as I’m pretty sure it’s everyone) that “some players” are not receiving points?

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#120 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2020 3:20:29 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Communication around this issue has been absolutely appalling. If it was intended as some sort of fix, the community could have swiftly told them how stupid an idea it was. If it was an error, then how is it not fixed 6 months later? Why has there been no communication at all other than a one liner in the support notes to say (inaccurately as I’m pretty sure it’s everyone) that “some players” are not receiving points?

First of all, even though it may appear to be a stupid idea, if nobody has a better idea it might still be the best idea available. I can see why they wouldn't want to tell people how it works, as it would just make the problem worse, although it seems like a large proportion of players now know how it works anyway.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#121 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2020 3:39:18 AM(UTC)
You can’t solve one relatively minor problem (I used to play a lot of ranked team and I would say no more than 1 in a 100 had obvious boosting) by implementing a “fix” that means over 90% of all ranked matches don’t actually count. If you haven’t got a better plan, it’s obvious you don’t implement one at all.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#122 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2020 6:22:32 AM(UTC)
I'm not saying it's a great situation, just trying to see it from their side to understand why they might have done what they've done.

I'd also consider the possibility that the ability to quit and not lose points could be a reason why you've noticed driving standards being better in team adventure than FFA adventure.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#123 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2020 7:29:14 AM(UTC)
Answer from support today: Unfortunately I do not have an estimated date on the fix for this issue. I am marking this ticket as "Solved" as we do not require more information from you for our investigation and are working on a fix. We will send out an announcement to the Community when we have a resolution.
Rank: Driver's License
#124 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2020 10:39:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: iBl0cks Go to Quoted Post
...
Similarly, in team adventure, with smurfs sabotaging other players (ramming) in order to push their teams higher above the ranked.

...

I would like to think that the current situation prevents the above situation from happening, However, I do understand why most people will be peeved about it. I think the team tried to roll out a fix for this but backfired to the current situation by the looks of it. Hopefully, an update in the future will rectify this. But, I really doubt it with MTS being the core of ranked events

as i wrote before:
today it is pretended that the player (who left the game) did not play. this makes it easy to manipulate the game - same as in the past.
it would be an idea to score the player in the current race, at the end of the table. 1st quit = 12th place. 2nd quit 11th place etc.
so there is no manipulation possible with smurfing.

the problem with ramming is not solved by this idea. there is only one solution: totally ghosting the races.

but i think we will not get a solution within FH4.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#125 Posted : Tuesday, May 26, 2020 1:59:18 PM(UTC)
Please, would someone like to tell me why when I play ranked Playground games with my friends we will win 10 games in a row and make absolutely NO progress? And as soon as we come across a full team of STIK, KING, or TMHT players and lose, suddenly we lose around 100+ points?? How on earth is this fair? What a great system you've got here Forza. I'm so glad I spend hours a day playing this game FOR NOTHING just to lose it all in 5 minutes.

Yes I realise that the system works by needing all 12 members on each team for the points to count, but why can you still lose points if a team member leaves?? It really makes no sense. Me and my friends literally put hours into PG everyday for no progress at all. It's extremely frustrating and frankly I'm failing to see much of a point in playing this game anymore.

Fix your game.

Edited by user Tuesday, May 26, 2020 3:05:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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